i really doubt that they will actually fix powers for pvp. From precedents, it looks like they will ONLY fix bugs. venge, bug. cage, bug.
Im pretty sure that the pvp aspect merely brought attention to the bug, not that they are changeing it to help pvp.
support my balance thread, though I dunno if it'll help at least a bump may get the devs to open their eyes a little to easily fixable balance issues.
i cant say i agree with all of your 'fixes'
You don't have to, but it's a start. you can also post a few of your own.
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AFAIK, veng stacking was around for a while, until the pre-match stacking came about and that the info leaked onto the boards. So it wasn't really a problem until then, apparently.
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AFAIK, veng stacking was around for a while, until the pre-match stacking came about and that the info leaked onto the boards. So it wasn't really a problem until then, apparently.
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That's pretty much the way I see it too. The [censored] really started with the pre-stack and all of a sudden *any* stacked veng was "zomg easy mode"...even though every team on test had been doing it to one degree or another for months. Go figure. 
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AFAIK, veng stacking was around for a while, until the pre-match stacking came about and that the info leaked onto the boards. So it wasn't really a problem until then, apparently.
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That's pretty much the way I see it too. The [censored] really started with the pre-stack and all of a sudden *any* stacked veng was "zomg easy mode"...even though every team on test had been doing it to one degree or another for months. Go figure.
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Funny how things work, eh?
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GL HF with this thread. It's a lost [censored] cause. Anti-Venge groups are the ones that [censored] suck at it, just like anti-storm groups are the ones that can win without it.
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so if you're anti-vengeance it's 'cuz you suck...
and if you're anti-storm it's 'cuz you're sweet?
'scuse me while i laugh in your face.
BWAAAHAAAAHAAAA!
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gg context and reading comprehension. The only reason you'd be an advocate of something as corny as a Storm team is because it's your best bet of winning, just like the only reason you'd be an advocate of using Venge while it's still bugged is because your group is good at stacking it. The opposite is also true. GJ Being a tool.
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I find this very ironic considering that on the one and only official match that FoL had vs Velocity we brought over a jump team, which Velocity defeated using a storm team.
Another thing..........boasting about scores of practice/scrimage rounds in which you are facing non optimal lineups is a bit tasteless. Don't become Cruel part II.
If you really think you're better than us, or NDX, or whomever, why is it that you guys avoid scheduling official matches like the plague?
PvP is serious business.
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I find this very ironic considering that on the one and only official match that FoL had vs Velocity we brought over a jump team, which Velocity defeated using a storm team.
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Wasn't with Velocity then, could care less.
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Another thing..........boasting about scores of practice/scrimage rounds in which you are facing non optimal lineups is a bit tasteless. Don't become Cruel part II.
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Not really boasting so much as saying that FoL isn't unbeatable like Incursion is implying.
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If you really think you're better than us, or NDX, or whomever, why is it that you guys avoid scheduling official matches like the plague?
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It's not my decision to make, but it may have something to do with the fact that they picked up a bunch of new people and would like to get practices with them in.
Might also have something to do with the only matches I've been around to see be requested were done out of dislike for the group. NDX called us out for prestacking venge (once in a practice match just to see what was up), so they wanted an official. Now you're calling us out for using venge at all, and saying that's the only way we win, so you want an official.
Word of advice, people might be a tad bit more inclined to play with you if you didn't call them out when a win or loss on either side would only add to the drama.
Before the SG retired, HVND was very much against venge stacking, but HVND was not a vocal SG. If something bothered us, we kept our [censored] private. Just because people did not complain about it prior, does not mean the sentiment did not exist.
Also, concerning storm teams, they are very beatable by run and gun teams, it just takes a different playstyle and very strict focus fire. If you want some tips and tricks, I'm more than happy to share.
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Also, concerning storm teams, they are very beatable by run and gun teams, it just takes a different playstyle and very strict focus fire. If you want some tips and tricks, I'm more than happy to share.
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There are also ways to control the use of vengeance stacking. Does that make it any less overpowered?
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GL HF with this thread. It's a lost [censored] cause. Anti-Venge groups are the ones that [censored] suck at it, just like anti-storm groups are the ones that can win without it.
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so if you're anti-vengeance it's 'cuz you suck...
and if you're anti-storm it's 'cuz you're sweet?
'scuse me while i laugh in your face.
BWAAAHAAAAHAAAA!
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gg context and reading comprehension. The only reason you'd be an advocate of something as corny as a Storm team is because it's your best bet of winning, just like the only reason you'd be an advocate of using Venge while it's still bugged is because your group is good at stacking it. The opposite is also true. GJ Being a tool.
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yeah, i musta' misunderstood what you were saying.
'cuz it sounded really stupid.
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Also, concerning storm teams, they are very beatable by run and gun teams, it just takes a different playstyle and very strict focus fire. If you want some tips and tricks, I'm more than happy to share.
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There are also ways to control the use of vengeance stacking. Does that make it any less overpowered?
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i dunno. and, i'm not implying you're among this group or anything, but i see something that looks like a bit of a trend in this game.
it's that once something comes along that disrupts the status quo (i.e. the game as it is or was - dominated by heavy, up-front damage and focused fire), there are concerns and complaints from a vocal blaster population that the technique or whatever is overpowered. i'm not saying they're not justified some times, but it's beginning to look a little like every time there is something that comes up that disrupts the focused fire M.O. that has dominated this game for the past 2 years, everyone starts gettin' antsy and calls of "cheap" or "nerf" start flying around.
is it really cheap if it's a part of the game that's working as intended?
or is it just part of the game?
is it really the same as a power that is a known exploit and has been deemed such by the devs?
i don't think so.
when you break it down, it's simply fair to lump these two together like this.
Basically get use to vengance and storm teams. If a team wins because of it get over it same goes for storm team. yea son 8===D
its funny when velocity makes fun of us for recruiting DA memebers... yet, they picked up ABH players.... hum..
OH yea i totally forgot about DA lol good times good times
Good thing I was in ABH for like a week and a half 5-6 months ago. Maybe more than that. Lacuna, Mags and Omega were, by far and away, the top 3 players in ABH.
ABH is the only PvPSG on Infinity, so those who want to PvP join ABH or don't PvP at all, which was not the case for DA, or so I'm lead to believe.
abh
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I find this very ironic considering that on the one and only official match that FoL had vs Velocity we brought over a jump team, which Velocity defeated using a storm team.
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Wasn't with Velocity then, could care less.
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Another thing..........boasting about scores of practice/scrimage rounds in which you are facing non optimal lineups is a bit tasteless. Don't become Cruel part II.
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Not really boasting so much as saying that FoL isn't unbeatable like Incursion is implying.
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If you really think you're better than us, or NDX, or whomever, why is it that you guys avoid scheduling official matches like the plague?
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It's not my decision to make, but it may have something to do with the fact that they picked up a bunch of new people and would like to get practices with them in.
Might also have something to do with the only matches I've been around to see be requested were done out of dislike for the group. NDX called us out for prestacking venge (once in a practice match just to see what was up), so they wanted an official. Now you're calling us out for using venge at all, and saying that's the only way we win, so you want an official.
Word of advice, people might be a tad bit more inclined to play with you if you didn't call them out when a win or loss on either side would only add to the drama.
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Whether you were with Velocity or not then, or whether you care or not is irrelevant. The fact still remains that Velocity used a storm team in a official match against our jump team. If storm team wasn't cheap or cheesy then, it shouldnt be now.
We're not requesting matches out of dislike for your group, or any other group for that matter. We are requesting matches because we are a PvP SG, and..........surprise, we like to PvP.
Contrary to what you think, I've always liked Velocity, and have very good relations with Moe, Black Scythe, Sky Wolf, Xhiggy, and the rest of the original SG founders. In fact, I almost went to Velocity when the SG was founded. I was glad to see another PvP group in Liberty, because its boring to be the only dominant group in a server.
We are not looking for drama, just matches.
Threads like this are why I spend most of my time playing WoW these days.
I look at it like this:
Lets say we discovered a bug whereby a team could press the right combination of keys at a specific time in the match and their targetted enemy would be kicked from the match.
It could be argued that arena crashes happen all the time, and that there would be no way to determine if the crash was legit, or if the exploit was used. Additionally, mastering the timing and coordination required to pull off the exploit would be difficult, and require signficant practice. Now, obviously being able to ensure that the opposition had one less player would be a big advantage; not necessarily enough to ensure a victory, but certainly a potential tipping point. As such, it could be argued that since it can't be precisely controlled, and both teams have the ability to practice and utilize the exploit, the bug is a non-issue, since both teams performing the exploit means that no team gains the advantage.
Of course, if such a bug existed, and a team was found to have used it, we would be outraged.
Obviously, vengeance isn't a bug of that magnitude, but it IS a bug, and a developer acknowledged one at that. There is no grey area here, its black and white; Vengeance stacking is unintended behavior. If we had GMs that cared about PvP, like a certain other game, players could potentially be suspended or banned for intentionally exploiting (ie: geometry exploits in WoW BGs).
The devs will fix it, eventually, but it could be some time. In the meantime, we have to remember that we're a small community, and we need to stick together. Things like this drive people away, and when we're dealing with a group of people that probably numbers less than 100, we need to avoid those things.
There is no reason, whatsoever, that groups shouldn't be able to agree to do without vengeance; it doesn't hurt the quality of PvP, it avoids the conflicts, and most importantly, it avoids the use of a known exploit. It makes no sense that we have a 30 page flamewar about this topic.
To my knowledge, there are 3 bugs/exploits that exist in arena PvP:
- Vengeance stacking
- Pre-stacked vengeance
- Warburg buff nuke after the countdown
All of these can be utilized by both teams. If two of them aren't ok, why are we arguing that one of them is?
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Basically get use to vengance and storm teams. If a team wins because of it get over it same goes for storm team. yea son 8===D
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i'm ok with vengeance.
it's a known exploit.
everyone can use it.
no big whup.
So I wonder how much complaining it will take to get the -range on hurricane nerfed. Because people complained about capping stats out with stacked vengance, maybe we can complain about stacking people to negative range and get that nerfed too. But then again, that boils down to primarily what Castle wants and other devs for their PvP. Now, I can't say for sure that they didn't want stacked vengeance until it got enough complaints, but maybe if people keep complaining about not being able to have any range with stacked hurricanes (and yes, you can stack 2 hurricane debuffs with one hurricane user, but that must be ok), we can get this nerfed too. Then we can go back to just jump teams that have to rely on focus fire, because maybe thats what the devs want PvP to be. But who knows, they tell us nothing about their PvP vision (or at least I haven't heard about it).
PvP is Serious Business
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GL HF with this thread. It's a lost [censored] cause. Anti-Venge groups are the ones that [censored] suck at it, just like anti-storm groups are the ones that can win without it.
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so if you're anti-vengeance it's 'cuz you suck...
and if you're anti-storm it's 'cuz you're sweet?
'scuse me while i laugh in your face.
BWAAAHAAAAHAAAA!
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gg context and reading comprehension. The only reason you'd be an advocate of something as corny as a Storm team is because it's your best bet of winning, just like the only reason you'd be an advocate of using Venge while it's still bugged is because your group is good at stacking it. The opposite is also true. GJ Being a tool.