GuessWhosBack
-
Posts
153 -
Joined
-
Recently deleted the toon but I can give you some idea. Also I built it staminaless before stamina was inherent. And before incarnates.
This was the powers, but slotting and IOs changed dramatically before I was finished (have some buddies from vent real good with builds and PvP).
http://planner.cohtitan.com/view/811
I found two taunts put me at an advantage over other taunt bots and especially in small team arena or zone. In the end I had no damage anyways, so why bother. Build for what I was good at. Annoyance. I wanted taunt, challenge, webnade, hurl up asap (elec is good for recharge). I found power sink was nice but you can do away with it. I needed it for staminaless build.
Remember to put enough KB IOs in the build. Sorry I dont have the finished product for you to see. -
I played a SS/Elec brute almost exclusively in PvP since villains was released (zone and a fair amount of arena, even on test). Over the issues I respecd, retooled and never gave up trying to make it work (im stubborn and I like the toon). Eventually sinking 10 billion into the "final" build.
I highly suggest you try another toon, re reroll as an elec/ss tanker if you must play this type of toon. Best bet is as a taunt bot. My final build actually had two taunts and web nade, was very annoying to play against. It was fairly effective even in team PvP. But not very rewarding. Tankers would taunt better (with the inherent), be tougher out of the box (I had nearly 2300 HPs on my brute, tankers hit that easy). Also tankers will provide more damage in most PvP, its rare you build much fury.
So basically dont do what I did and waste all your resources on a sub par toon. Brutes arent worth the investment. Honestly Id spread the love and pick a few toons you like, take em into zones and enjoy. Dont put all your eggs in one basket cause you will regret it. -
Thanks!
-
Linky me if you want but I didnt see another thread on this. Im guessing this build would really only work in zones. But if you think itd hang in arena, Im fine with that. If you have a build you can point me to Id love to see it.
Im starting to get a handle on powers to take. Propel looks awesome with its rooting and long animation time ; ) Almost like a snipe without that annoying damage.
Looks like almost everything in the secondary is a possability to take. Of course, ss, sj, hasten, cj and acro, grant invis (already got stealth in fog), invis and phase. I assume also leadership (manuevers, tactics). What epic set and powers? -
Quote:Tankers get higher base damage than brutes last time I checked (.80 tanks, .75 brutes iirc) (although its been awhile). And last I heard even with DRd resistances they end up very close (and lol resists versus a psi blaster?)???Originally Posted by TehFiri
A couple of reasons. Both have their own advantages and disadvantages.
Tanks get higher base HP and then overall higher max HP. They get inherent taunt with their attacks. They also get lower base damage as well as a lower damage cap (which doesnt really matter in pvp, but w/e). Also, unless this changed since it was last tested, Tank resists get hit harder by DR then Brutes.
Brutes get a higher base and damage cap. Rage inherent (which doesnt mean much in pvp unless your into fite klubing). Higher overall resists because, as backwards as it sounds, Brutes resists dont get hit as hard by DR. Lower Base HP and in turn lower max HP.
So really then you have to decide which is a better trade off. Do you want higher HP and lower damage/resist or do you want lower HP and higher damage/resist.
Fossilize is also funny.
So meaning in the end you get resists to close to count, substantially higher HPs, slightly higher base damage. Inherent taunt (guantlet so all attacks taunt). They loose some damage compared to brutes because of LOL Fury (but doesnt build nearly fast enough to make a difference unless 1v1 vs a melee : ) ).
Id go one further, if it wasnt for SS and rage... Scrappers would make better taunt bots (its still debateable, not sure if scrap challenge gives - range). And again they have web... Plus much better damage... Can you imagine a SS/Regen...
So again Id ask why would someone make a brute? In fact Id highly recommend you not. Ive been waiting for devs to make the brute AT worthwhile in PvP for along time. Or am I completely wrong... -
Quote:Not sure why youd advise a brute over a tanker for a classic taunt bot. Especially now that tanks can pick up webnade. Theres no reason at all to play a brute in PvP. Playing a taunt bot with a thermal MM in zones is kinda nice, or a poison MM for debuffs. MMs are pretty cheap builds also (this duo might have a real hard time gettin kilss but youd be annoying as hell). Since you are going tank you have inherent taunt. Plus more HPs so choosing fire/ss or elec/ss is very viable.Originally Posted by TehFiri
I would say therms are on the same leg as a psi/em. You can spend a lot of money on them and it will make a pretty big difference, but you dont have to and they are still very enjoyable.
Actually you might have him roll a therm as well. They can be great to play in duo. Either that or I suggest some damage.
As far as brutes go, WP does work very similar. Biggest thing you would be missing is the oh sh** heal/+hp buff that invuln has. WP does get some +HP in other ways though which is still nice. My only thing really against suggesting that your friend do a melee is that for beginning PvPers they go get on a regen/brute/tank and they just end up stopping with that. They dont expand on toons they try and PvP with. They just end up falling into fite klubing and never getting past how hard their regen is to kill in a zone. I dont mean to bash fite klubing so bad. Let the Tru Warriors have their fun, but with someone who has some clue on how to play though, a taunt bot/range speced melee toon can be very effective and not just some nuisance that is running around and punching you in the face when 5 other ppl are travel suppressing you. -
Quote:You kinda took the key points and consolidated my rant. Those are some biggies. Thanks!Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
while i have to agree with Memphis Bill on some points such as the no way we will be able to take everything off
i do agree the current respec system is very cumbersome and i also hate to respec my toons because of it
my biggest complaints with it are:
- a huge PITA if you only want to change out 1 or 2 powers or just move a few slots around
- extremely annoying when it finishes by throwing every temp, inherent, primary, secondary, and pool powers into your power trays
-
Quote:I appreciate yours and cartwhoorgs (and others, just bumped into bill and cart over time under diff forum names) input although especially with respecs weve had differing opinions over the years. I dont have the time or patience to invest in regullarly tweaking my toons. Planning out a new spec, playing the market for months, getting what I want exactly how I want it... Then power changes and gotta spec it out and start over again. All of that time Im not enjoying the content this game offers.Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
"Take all the IOs off" isn't going to happen, at least by stated dev stances. Of course, they don't tend to need replacing all that often, as opposed to gear-based games with replacements/repairs/etc.
Part of the complaint you seem to have about respeccing, as well, is personal preference (mids/market/IO) - I tend to use a second build and SO it (which works just fine, thanks - did the incarnate arc on a few,) and if I have to tweak, do it there - then either transfer it (which uses most of the same IOs) or start working whatever new sets, etc. I want into it. (No, I'm not one of the multi-billion-inf folks. But I am patient.)
Plus, look at the characters and figure out if they "all" really need a respec or not. Is the build perfectly fine with regular Fitness? Then why respec? It works just fine - I'm leaving a couple of characters with it alone, because I'm happy with how they are now.
Some of the other games out there - no, haven't run either you've talked of - can afford to be "more lenient," as they have fewer powers to go with the gear, or they have other restrictions (Guild Wars - only 8 powers available at any time, swap them out in town, for instance.)
Now, there are some tweaks that could be done to the process - like remembering what sets were where, or setting up "templates" to apply, or just letting you swap slots around, absolutely. But along with that, I'd say consider why you're actually respeccing and if the specific characters really "need" it.
No I dont have to respec. Many other games offer easier tweaking of your characters. I find it fun in most other games I play. Here its a chore. You even hit another one I cant stand, restoring all the powers to the same spots on tray.
And frankly I dont care if the devs said "NO WAY CANT TAKE ALL IOS OFF THE TOON IN ONE RESPEC" (no offense). Just saying this paying customer (and I know Im not alone) wants it hence using the suggestion forums. Id like to change IOs and builds like I change clothes. I think it would be alot of fun. Allow me to expiriment with IOs and crazy builds without penalty. Instead we get locked in to choices, I dont enjoy that at all. I dread it. -
Really the thing that keeps me from playing this game regullarly, and frequently letting my subscription lapse is respecs.
Its a PITA. Frequent power changes have led to frequent need to respec my toons. Everytime I take a break from the game and come back, its to half my toons needing a respec. Depending on how long Ive been gone It could mean multiple specs to change out HOs, or IOs.
Many games (most MMOs these days) are much more lenient with their reselection of powers and gear. My complaint is it just takes to long to respec my toons. I dread it, and it generally causes me to stop playing altogether for awhile.
My suggestion is to look at how games like WoW, or Global Agenda handle reselection of powers. Make it easier, less time intensive, and allow me to take all my IOs/Gear off.
I resubed for a month, and Im dreading respecing my toons. The all need it once again (inherent fitness, alpha slots...). Ill probably fiddle around for a month and just let my sub lapse rather than spend the time in hero stats, in market, and in port oakes respecing my toons. I find this time sink most aggravating because it negates alot of work (especially collecting, crafting/shafting IOs). -
Quote:Might be worth slotting your attack for end drain.Originally Posted by __Divine__
taunt, super speed, super jump, stamina, tough. (do not take fly)build for recharge and hp, make sure you pick up FA (for perception) and web nades. Just pick a blaster follow him and spam web nade and taunt. they will rage quit if u do it right.
I got stubborn around i12 with my main elec/elec and built em for end drain (went elec/elec/elec). Worked ok could drain most things quick but no single target damage output at all. I couldnt kill anything. Two early single target attacks plus jacobs ladder, thunderstrike thats about it from primary.
Im not even sure you should bother with build up. I suspect its still the same, so other than thunder strike I wouldnt bother slotting for damage (unless the set bonuses make sense).
You should be able to push HPs to around 2250 (on a brute, btw never saw if you have a brute or tanker). Energize, power sink and attacks that return end, or dont cost any (taunt). you dont need stamina on an elec/elec brute/tanker. Provided youve got the money.
I also suggest taunt, webnade and phase. You need KB IOs, SS and SJ.
Spam taunt and webnade, drain anyone that gets close enough for melee attacks. You need to fit some accuracy in your build as well. Make sure you pick up focused acc, and build for global bonuses.
Unfortunately for you elec/elec... well if you ever truly get bit by the pvp bug... Youll eventually wanna reroll. -
"The problem with zone is that unlike arena matches for which the rules can be agreed upon by the participants at match time, the zone rules have to be the same for everyone. This opens the door to asking the question which PvP rules make the most sense. This is a non-trivial question to answer with certainty. Implementing the arena settings could offer a way to settle that question definitively or at least as definitively as possible. If literally *everyone* who PvPs consistently chose the same settings or almost always chose the same settings, that would in effect be a vote for those settings among all players who PvP, whether they discuss the matter publicly or not. It would be strong evidence that those settings should be the ones deployed at the zones. In effect, the people whose vote matters the most would be the people who actually PvP. "
Arcanaville not every PvPer does so in the arena. I would guess the majority dont. So why would arena PvP selections decide zone rules? -
Lol. First I said I was exaggerating about emps and blasters its not nearly as bad as it used to be.
Second I didnt put words in your mouth. You said "And, just to be clear, the 'real PvP'ers' are the ones on Test." And your right you didnt say test teams are only source of Pvpers. You suggest test teams were the source of "real PvPers".
And I responded. Might wanna read what you wrote again I think you forgot. Btw got no problem with you, just didnt think Real PvPers was accurate nor do I find anything you wrote funny (im not raging either, its seriously just not funny might wanna hire someone to write you some new material). -
Quote:true story. i was exaggerating a bit there.Originally Posted by Psoma
Just to be clear, I can only recall 1 team that ever tried running emps and psi blasters exclusively...until they realized that wasn't optimal. Actually, I think that was the Freedom league, and not Test. Honestly, there is no single, optimal line-up for a Test arena team. I'm not saying there is a ton of diversity, but again, that's not the fault of the players that are doing the logical thing of maximizing their potential. The only thing we can do as players is create rules within the system we're given, limiting ourselves to create diversity. (An example of that is limiting stalker numbers on teams.)
-
Quote:Wrong. 3 test teams dont constitute the entire roster of "real" pvpers in this game sorry. Just because you like to play a different way (8v8 emps and psi blasters) doesnt make you better, or more "real". It just makes you a minority in the minority that is PvP.Originally Posted by SmokeSignal
And, just to be clear, the 'real PvP'ers' are the ones on Test. And they come from Freedom, Pinnacle, Champion, Justice, and elsewhere.
Ive seen it a few times over the years. People get good practice alot, a few teams developed (justice, champion freedom whatever). Then wham. PVP sucks in this game theres never any arena. Im moving to test maybe we can get more "real" pvpers going there (ie emps and blasters). Eventually they quit or haunt the forums complaining about how bad PvP is in this game (comming back from time to time to talk about how badass they were).
Meanwhile a new group of PvPers starts out in Sirens, RV and some arena. Get to know eachother, face off occasionally against some "real PvPers". Decide to copy them and form a small group of "ELITE REAL TEST PVPERS" (emps and blasters).
2-3 years ago I compared most of the PvP community (of which I consider myself a member) to inbred hillbillies. You only fight "real PvPers" on your own ground with your own rules and mix with your own kind. Eventually you die off because you dont have new blood. -
Removed Hero/Villain Requirements from the following Badges:
Firebug
Hero Slayer
Impounder
Outlaw
Safecracker
Vandal
Swashbuckler
Arachnos Rising
Villain Disruptor
I guess I dont understand how this affects Force of Nature? -
How is force of nature obtained post GR?
I cant find documentation on specifics of what badges and their requirements. -
Quote:Actually that would be people who want base raids. Possibly PvPers in generally but definitely those who wanted to do base raids. They are the most neglected.Originally Posted by American_Angel
And as a subscriber to the game...yes, we do deserve special treatment. Especially since we are the most neglected faction in the game. -
Quote:He was typing english? I know they probably dont teach that in your grade yet. But keep graduating and eventually youll learn something valuable.Originally Posted by Borderline Boss
this doesnt even make any sense..
there was pvp everywhere until i13.. wat r u even saying
wtf is a l337 god ppl r so dumb
For example, R U actually comes from the english words "are" and "you". Put them together and you have the beginnings of a question. For example "ARE YOU really going to be a virgin your whole life?" or "ARE YOU sure mom will say yes when you ask her to prom?" -
Quote:Actually you missed the boat on the PvP comment I replied to. There isnt a they are working on it and dont know when. It was there wont be ANYTHING in the next 3 issues (counting the one comming out this week). That means i19 before anything pvp related... Thats a good 8 months or more by my calculations.Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
For the PvP question, it's pretty simple really. They are working on it, and will be coming to it. When and what timescale is quite possibly something even they don't know yet, due to the fact they seem to work on three issues at once nowadays, and GR is probably taking major precedence over anything else.
And who knows what marketting thinks, at the best of times. The Devs =/= Marketing, either way.
Finally, don't get me wrong; I know there is still some what I'd consider broken stuff in game. And yeah, PvP is one of them. Base editing too, and (for me anyhow) the majority of Blueside content and this morbid obsession with 'New shinies is better!' when, really, the game chassis (the majority of content) could do with a polish.
I just object to being typed at like I'm an idiot
I expected the dont let the door comments to fly. I didnt post for you, I felt the developers ought to know what this long time player isnt happy about. Whether you agree or disagree. Obviously Ive paid 15$ a month for 65 months, I like the game well enough to pay. -
Quote:Three reasons why this 65 month vet finally choose to let his subscription lapse.Originally Posted by Castle
PVP
Nothing in Going Rogue or the follow up issue. We do have some plans, however, and "Curious Observer" and I discuss things frequently.
Its one thing to not give PvP much attention, but no attention for several issues (17 this week???, going rogue and the issue after that...). Thats basically giving up on it. There are so many ways you could spice up PvP without much effort; Adding new (existing) maps to the arena; increasing PvP IO drop rate (substantially); making zone mini games attractive (ie SO's for bounty?, why win hot spots or take control of pills in RV?).
Combine that with the "economy" and time sink required to build up a toon... And thats comming from someone with access to more resources than 99% of the playerbase. I still could really only afford to deck out one or two toons, and only one build each. After 65 months. 1 toon completely PvP/Purp/Uniqued out. If I stripped every other toon, and sold or reused... I might get one more specd perfect.
Finally combine that with respecs. I dread em. Such a pita. Topped with I loose enhancements everytime. Which I cant afford to loose. Not to excited about the whole incarnate thing either. Make 50s better screams to me another time sink I gotta participate in to PvP. Respecs, enhancements new levels.
I play this game to experiment with builds and characters Ive taken years to build up. When it takes 6 months to plan out, purchase and respec.... 1 build... Most of which I couldnt afford to make anyways... Kinda takes the fun out of it. -
Quote:qftOriginally Posted by Borderline Boss
Y r u kids responding to that guesswhosdumb noub, he clearly has no clue what he's talking about
Was talkin in vent about this last night. Another idea would be to make it a pentad and no duplication of powersets and ATs. Ie cant have two empath (troller and def), thermal (corr, mm, etc etc) or psi. -
Quote:No interest in running a league but as time permits I do participate in arena stuff (including a d6 match or two). Im just telling you there is a larger pool of PvPers out there you could interest in matches if yall were so stubborn and cliquish.Originally Posted by EmpireForgotten
Requiring more AT's =/= better PvP
0-0 ties =/= better PvP
1-0 wins due to the other teams error, not your skill =/= better PvP.
If you think a pentad ladder is viable, try to form one. Let me know how that goes. -
Quote:Ok then there are no good players in this game, only less bad. So there are lots of less bad players not in the PvP league right now. Opening up the ATs might increase participation. I know many of you ride the short bus to school so let me speak plainly.Originally Posted by black_barrier
wrong.
there are no good players in this game, only less bad players.
MOAR ATs = MOAR BETTER PvP! -
Quote:From what Ive seen pvping in this game since villains release, alot of times people talk/complain/ridicule in the forums about their view of PvP. What happens in game is often completely different. So they become 1-0, 3-0, etc. Hockey and baseball scores vs the 15-8 type games you have now.Originally Posted by EmpireForgotten
a 6v6 and a 5v5pentad are completely different.
If you're proposing just straight 5v5's...maybe
But If you do a pentad, 1 stalker and 1 blaster aren't going to kill anything together...expecially when the other team can bring an emp def and emp troller.
I think it could be fun as hell and open arena PvP up to more players. Not everyone has an emp or a psi blaster. And many very good pvpers arent playing in your league. I think youd be pleasantly suprised. -
Quote:I thought one of the current leagues used 6 per team? In which case I find it hard to believe that one less per side would turn into 0 to 0 ties every match.Originally Posted by macskull
Pentads would be retarded because nothing would ever kill anything.