HEY DEVS (yes i know this never works)
By
Alpha_Zulu,
Posted on: 2010-09-02 09:23 in Everything about PvP
I dont see how helpfull this rant is. Why not have a dedicated server for arena pvp so we can fight people thoughout the US servers. . . . or is this beyond NCSofts capabilities?
I agree wholeheartedly. My dollars will 100% be spent elsewhere come November unless some positive steps are taken toward addressing the concerns of the PVP playerbase.
If the devs are going to do nothing for PVP then there is no reason for me (as a PVPer) to continue playing this game. We've been patient enough so a little update at least would go a long way to keeping my dollars here.
I feel the same way, try and try as we might, by doing ladders, and all the other things we, as players, can do; the dev team needs to put something out about what they are doing to either fix or change PvP. We have done what we can but the changes that were made with I13 have made less builds viable in almost all aspects of PvP but definately in arena PvP, and zone PvP is a joke with the travel suppression and heal decay, and I had a new person to PvP last night send me a lot of tells asking why their toons def and resistance numbers which were almost capped in PvE were so lolzy when they came into PvP. All I could say was DR and attempt to explain it and their response was "why would any one want that to happen to their toons" to which I had no answer. All of these changes have made less and less people want to PvP not more as was the intent for the changes. Rewards for PvP...PvEr's that wanted PvPIO's, for some reason, actually had to PvP for them and this got some more people into the TS'd HD'd zone but, now nope don't need to, just run a bunch of tips/alignment missions and get hero/villian merits and tada there ya go you got yourself a brand new shiny PvPIO and never even had to step into any PvP whatsoever. There are many changes that could be made to save the PvP in this game but with no talking to us, the playerbase, by the dev team, all I see is when the bling of GR dies off, it could be the end for this game.
Examples of how you could show us something is happening: fix the character copy tool, It is hard to do anything on test if you get someone that wants to come there but cant get a toon copied over.
Fix the temp powers in the arena, as it is right now you can't use any arena store bought temps in a match.
Fix stalker electric melee thunderstrike.
Fix the arena view event results button so that it actually shows the score of a match after it is completed.
There are more, just stating these off the top of my head. I know many people would wish for looking at lowering or removing HD and Travel Suppression from zones, and I think that it would have a resounding YAY from our community.
So how about it, tell us something, being in the dark is killing off our community. Now if that is the reason then hey you are doing a great job.
OLD SCHOOL PvP
Rad/Psi,Psi/Em,Fire/Em,Cld/Sonic,FF/Sonic,Grav/Ta,Storm/Psi,Sp/WP,Fire/Psi,Sonic/Pain
RIP:Southern Comfort PvP,PE PvP,INTEGRITY PvP,After School Special PvP Test SG's,TPvPL Season1+2 Runner ups
Maybe that's the plan, drive away the current entitled PvP community away so they can truly start from scratch?
Cpt. Shwan.
Virtue, AR/Dev Blaster, lvl 50+3, 3300+ Hours logged.
Created 8/20/2004 - Proud Captain of Hero Dawn!
if a dev comments in this or any other thread about pvp(mods aside) i'll give 1 bill to anyone who asks.
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
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"Entitled?"|
Originally Posted by CptShwan
Maybe that's the plan, drive away the current entitled PvP community away so they can truly start from scratch?
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(Also, surely you realize that if they drive off what's left of the PvP community they won't have to worry about starting from scratch because there won't be a new community to replace it.)
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Also apparently PvP comes up every time they're discussing a new issue, but obviously maintaining a section of their playerbase doesn't mean **** so they continue to ignore it except for token bugfixes which don't solve any of the underlying problems.
Hm. What they could (read: won't) do is add an arena option to use PvE effects on all powers. Not exactly the same as old-style PvP (still missing unresisted damage/debuffs, though that would screw over AS) but at least buffers would be useful and things would actually work like they're supposed to.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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Originally Posted by CptShwan
Maybe that's the plan, drive away the current entitled PvP community away so they can truly start from scratch?
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Entitled? My sweet tushie. Yarite....
Go back to Virtue arena and do that weird, typing pvp or moar cyborz.
On topic: They will or won't say something. At this point I think it should be pretty apparant( as in a bigass A P P A R A N T tattoo on Castle's forehead) that the dev's like pvp as it is for the moment. The thing that's sad is it's equally apparant that many loved pvp in this game , hoped and trusted the devs would provide better pvp,and continue to pay dollars based on a wing and a prayer add the hope of "someday". Alas, "someday " appears to be never at this point... But cheer up.. look at all the cool new emotes!!! Half full never half empty!! /esnarkoff.
Pretty sure the devs have the PvP forum threads on /ignore. The only ones allowed in are the Mods. This is like the wastelands and the Devs send the Mods out to get cannibalized so that they can keep ignoring this area. What we need to do is invade the PvE land and get some spies into the upper crust so that they can influence changes in PvP without them knowing it.
"Boy I sure would like to get some of these badges that are in the PvP zones but my toons are all so gimp when they go there and I get ganked, we should turn off all that DR and travel suppression stuff so I can run from badge spot to badge spot without interruption."
Here's to hoping though!
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Originally Posted by Psyrene
Fix stalker electric melee thunderstrike.
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Sorry Psy I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one.
IMO, there's nothing wrong with Stalker thunderstrike. It has a *chance* to double crit.
What needs to be fixed is Tanker fossilize, the placate proc firing off everytime in Will Dom, Concentrated Strike doing crazy stupid damage yet it only has a longer cast time by 0.3 seconds when compared to other powers such as Eagles Claw.
So before thunderstrike is "fixed", Fossilize needs to be fixed, broken placate broc needs to fixed, and broken concentrated strike needs to be fixed.
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Originally Posted by MAD UMLAUTS
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^^^^Lies...
That reminds me? Why haven't y'all sent the devs a goody basket yet?
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Because they let the forum mods be the food tasters just in case they get any anthrax laced brownies. |
Originally Posted by DitzyBlonde
That reminds me? Why haven't y'all sent the devs a goody basket yet?
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Lighthouse didn't really get fired, he just ate a bad brownie....
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Actually, when I find myself thinking I might want to look at PvP again, before the meds kick in, I find the two suggestions I made to the devs when the PvP adjustments were being made are still basically the same two suggestions I would pursue now:|
Originally Posted by macskull
Hm. What they could (read: won't) do is add an arena option to use PvE effects on all powers. Not exactly the same as old-style PvP (still missing unresisted damage/debuffs, though that would screw over AS) but at least buffers would be useful and things would actually work like they're supposed to.
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1. Cross server arena
2. Arena settings to enable/disable five PvP effects separately: DR, Movement suppression, PvP damage adjustments, Heal suppression, and Mez conversion.
Both of these are theoretically doable. I'm less able to guestimate how difficult #1 is, but I am capable of doing so for #2. It would be significant work, but wouldn't require additional tech beyond the ability for the programmers to whip up relatively quickly. I still believe them both to be achievable and reasonable requests.
There's actually a whole logical argument I started to make regarding #2 that had to do with introducing PvP changes using that system, and using the arena settings statistics to essentially datamine what PvPers who actually PvPed found both fun and fair. If they are optional, you can introduce any wild settings you want because the players can always choose to ignore them, but conversely it also allows PvP subcultures to choose their own versions of PvP mechanics without having to obey the majority opinion. It allows PvP balance changes to evolve ten times faster than PvE changes as a result because change control is less critical.
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Originally Posted by DitzyBlonde
Go back to Virtue arena and do that weird, typing pvp or moar cyborz.
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and you people wonder why most of the playerbase have this aversion from going into a zone full of rabid folk who seem to have fell off the counterstrike bus?
No amount of fixing in the world is going to fix certain problems.
Cpt. Shwan.
Virtue, AR/Dev Blaster, lvl 50+3, 3300+ Hours logged.
Created 8/20/2004 - Proud Captain of Hero Dawn!
I remember a while ago, during some special event or other, one of the devs ( I believe it was Babs, but maybe not) menyioned that they' actually tried turning ON some of the PVP reductions in a PvE zone.
This is hardly a meaningful sample, but it at least suggests that it maybe a dev could turn OFF some or all of the settings from time to time.
Saturays? I could play my old fort again...
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
Until I see some evidence that the dev team has a desire to understand what draws players to PvP and keep them there, I see no reason to be optimistic. PvP vets are interested in PvP as a form of end-game content, but so far, I've yet to see a dev that sees the potential in that, which is a real shame. Pretending that i13 was a good idea and that any future changes should be made around that system is just further evidence that no beneficial changes are coming.
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To touch on your points:|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Actually, when I find myself thinking I might want to look at PvP again, before the meds kick in, I find the two suggestions I made to the devs when the PvP adjustments were being made are still basically the same two suggestions I would pursue now:
1. Cross server arena 2. Arena settings to enable/disable five PvP effects separately: DR, Movement suppression, PvP damage adjustments, Heal suppression, and Mez conversion. Both of these are theoretically doable. I'm less able to guestimate how difficult #1 is, but I am capable of doing so for #2. It would be significant work, but wouldn't require additional tech beyond the ability for the programmers to whip up relatively quickly. I still believe them both to be achievable and reasonable requests. There's actually a whole logical argument I started to make regarding #2 that had to do with introducing PvP changes using that system, and using the arena settings statistics to essentially datamine what PvPers who actually PvPed found both fun and fair. If they are optional, you can introduce any wild settings you want because the players can always choose to ignore them, but conversely it also allows PvP subcultures to choose their own versions of PvP mechanics without having to obey the majority opinion. It allows PvP balance changes to evolve ten times faster than PvE changes as a result because change control is less critical. |
* We've been asking for cross-server arena for quite some time. War Witch has made allusions to upcoming systems which might potentially amount to that (though that may have been the LFG system present in early GR beta that got pulled without any attention). I'm not sure it will help PvP at this point, as most of the remaining population is already on one server, but cross-server arena/PvP zones certainly would be nice.
* There's already tech for removing DR, travel suppression (though ideally PvPers would want travel suppression to follow the PvE rules rather than having none at all, in order to make evasion slightly easier and Kins useful again), and heal decay, and an option to revert to the PvE mez system could be as easy as flipping a switch, metaphorically speaking (other than mez suppression, there is very little difference between the current PvE mez system and the pre-I13 PvP mez system). I think the damage changes would be the hardest to fix, though having them follow PvE rules might be the easiest solution. Then there's the various unresisted effects present in pre-I13 PvP that would have to be re-added (10% of Blaster damage, some Defender debuffs, crits, etc.).
The problem with the latter point is that you still leave zone in its current state, which aside from coordinated team matches is the situation where the I13 changes are the worst - one side often outnumbered and unable to do anything to keep themselves alive except hug their base and hope they don't die. I mean, if option boxes were added to the arena, a time period (say, six months or a year) could go by and at the end of that time period the devs would change zone rules to whatever the favorite was in terms of arena ruleset.
Going out on a limb here, but adding those features and doing initial balance checks with actual PvPers (read: not the internal playtests which apparently were used to decide that the I13 changes were "balanced and fun") could be added as a side feature in an issue and I'm not sure that at least adding extra arena options would take too much developer time, even if only a few developers were tasked with it.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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Like I said, there were lots of things that needed fixing, I just listed a couple off the top of my head, but no work or at least no input from the devs saying they are working on any of them has been seen in how long...........?
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Originally Posted by Alpha_Zulu
Sorry Psy I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one.
IMO, there's nothing wrong with Stalker thunderstrike. It has a *chance* to double crit. What needs to be fixed is Tanker fossilize, the placate proc firing off everytime in Will Dom, Concentrated Strike doing crazy stupid damage yet it only has a longer cast time by 0.3 seconds when compared to other powers such as Eagles Claw. So before thunderstrike is "fixed", Fossilize needs to be fixed, broken placate broc needs to fixed, and broken concentrated strike needs to be fixed. |
OLD SCHOOL PvP
Rad/Psi,Psi/Em,Fire/Em,Cld/Sonic,FF/Sonic,Grav/Ta,Storm/Psi,Sp/WP,Fire/Psi,Sonic/Pain
RIP:Southern Comfort PvP,PE PvP,INTEGRITY PvP,After School Special PvP Test SG's,TPvPL Season1+2 Runner ups
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I'm going to agree with mac on this one. the arena chagnes would be awesome and welcome but it wouldn't fix zones which is the worst. there is absolutely no reason to keep it the same. there is no one (im extremely confident in this blanket statement) that wants to keep the current pvp system in place or that wouldn't be opposed to a reversion to pre i13. the only thing leaving the current system in place would accomplish is completely kill what is left of zones.(because who would want to pvp in it when they can pvp in a system that makes sense and is the same as pve and it would continue to discourage any new players coming into zones and people coming in for badges and what have you and if the devs did use it to implement crazy systems, it would be way inconsistant to enjoy)
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Actually, when I find myself thinking I might want to look at PvP again, before the meds kick in, I find the two suggestions I made to the devs when the PvP adjustments were being made are still basically the same two suggestions I would pursue now:
1. Cross server arena 2. Arena settings to enable/disable five PvP effects separately: DR, Movement suppression, PvP damage adjustments, Heal suppression, and Mez conversion. Both of these are theoretically doable. I'm less able to guestimate how difficult #1 is, but I am capable of doing so for #2. It would be significant work, but wouldn't require additional tech beyond the ability for the programmers to whip up relatively quickly. I still believe them both to be achievable and reasonable requests. There's actually a whole logical argument I started to make regarding #2 that had to do with introducing PvP changes using that system, and using the arena settings statistics to essentially datamine what PvPers who actually PvPed found both fun and fair. If they are optional, you can introduce any wild settings you want because the players can always choose to ignore them, but conversely it also allows PvP subcultures to choose their own versions of PvP mechanics without having to obey the majority opinion. It allows PvP balance changes to evolve ten times faster than PvE changes as a result because change control is less critical. |
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
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Yeah, I'm aware of that. Although I'm thinking of a very specific implementation of it.|
Originally Posted by macskull
To touch on your points:
* We've been asking for cross-server arena for quite some time. War Witch has made allusions to upcoming systems which might potentially amount to that (though that may have been the LFG system present in early GR beta that got pulled without any attention). I'm not sure it will help PvP at this point, as most of the remaining population is already on one server, but cross-server arena/PvP zones certainly would be nice. |
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| * There's already tech for removing DR, travel suppression (though ideally PvPers would want travel suppression to follow the PvE rules rather than having none at all, in order to make evasion slightly easier and Kins useful again), and heal decay, and an option to revert to the PvE mez system could be as easy as flipping a switch, metaphorically speaking (other than mez suppression, there is very little difference between the current PvE mez system and the pre-I13 PvP mez system). I think the damage changes would be the hardest to fix, though having them follow PvE rules might be the easiest solution. Then there's the various unresisted effects present in pre-I13 PvP that would have to be re-added (10% of Blaster damage, some Defender debuffs, crits, etc.). |
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| The problem with the latter point is that you still leave zone in its current state, which aside from coordinated team matches is the situation where the I13 changes are the worst - one side often outnumbered and unable to do anything to keep themselves alive except hug their base and hope they don't die. I mean, if option boxes were added to the arena, a time period (say, six months or a year) could go by and at the end of that time period the devs would change zone rules to whatever the favorite was in terms of arena ruleset. |
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| Going out on a limb here, but adding those features and doing initial balance checks with actual PvPers (read: not the internal playtests which apparently were used to decide that the I13 changes were "balanced and fun") could be added as a side feature in an issue and I'm not sure that at least adding extra arena options would take too much developer time, even if only a few developers were tasked with it. |
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In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
Now see, this is one of the root problems in my opinion to them "fixing" PvP. Instead of looking at the overall groundwork, this poster and the one quoted by them picked specific powers to complain about, and all that will do is get a specific power nerfed/buffed, when the real goal is to get the system overhauled. And on top of it, one listed a power as being broken, while the other said it was fine, WAI, but these powers are broken... individual opinions/likes/dislikes at play. |
Originally Posted by Alpha_Zulu
Sorry Psy I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one.
IMO, there's nothing wrong with Stalker thunderstrike. It has a *chance* to double crit. What needs to be fixed is Tanker fossilize, the placate proc firing off everytime in Will Dom, Concentrated Strike doing crazy stupid damage yet it only has a longer cast time by 0.3 seconds when compared to other powers such as Eagles Claw. So before thunderstrike is "fixed", Fossilize needs to be fixed, broken placate broc needs to fixed, and broken concentrated strike needs to be fixed. |
Unless the Devs focus on the entire architecture and not just individual powers/abilities, there will never be a PvP fix, just a bunch of assorted PvP changes.
"Life is what happens when you are making other plans"
To Arcana,
I think everything can be summed up quite simply.
The devs ****** this one up. Big time. And they should revert it back to the less broken way it was before they ****** it up. End of story.
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Fixed that for you, the folks who don't PvP now don't want to.
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Originally Posted by CptShwan
Maybe that's the plan, drive away the current PvP community away so have no PvP at all
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Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
not bs anymore please. Just tell us once and for all, are you going to fix pvp? See a lot of us have been trying to keep it going, events, ladders tourneys what have you...and it seems like you really really really really really really really really (enough reallys?) don't give a crap.
So just level with us - tell us lol pvp...tell us your adding more supression and heal decay and dr and other crappy ideas.
JUST TELL US and we can move on. Get War Witch to tell us she has had her finger in every issue (so she says) to get her finger to type something...
Look you owe us that much..
if all I get is mod smacked or nothing we can take that as your answer and wait for another mmorpg.