HEY DEVS (yes i know this never works)
By
Alpha_Zulu,
Posted on: 2010-09-02 09:23 in Everything about PvP
Quote:
When I find myself looking at PvP again, it's not in this game.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Actually, when I find myself thinking I might want to look at PvP again...
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Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
Quote:
qfmft
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Originally Posted by alpha_zulu
to arcana,
i think everything can be summed up quite simply. The devs ****** this one up. Big time. And they should revert it back to the less broken way it was before they ****** it up. End of story. |
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
Dear Forums,
Please stop "fixing" my ************* caps
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
"The problem with zone is that unlike arena matches for which the rules can be agreed upon by the participants at match time, the zone rules have to be the same for everyone. This opens the door to asking the question which PvP rules make the most sense. This is a non-trivial question to answer with certainty. Implementing the arena settings could offer a way to settle that question definitively or at least as definitively as possible. If literally *everyone* who PvPs consistently chose the same settings or almost always chose the same settings, that would in effect be a vote for those settings among all players who PvP, whether they discuss the matter publicly or not. It would be strong evidence that those settings should be the ones deployed at the zones. In effect, the people whose vote matters the most would be the people who actually PvP. "
Arcanaville not every PvPer does so in the arena. I would guess the majority dont. So why would arena PvP selections decide zone rules?
They have the time to delete my posts in these threads, but certainly not time to actually read the threads.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by GuessWhosBack
"The problem with zone is that unlike arena matches for which the rules can be agreed upon by the participants at match time, the zone rules have to be the same for everyone. This opens the door to asking the question which PvP rules make the most sense. This is a non-trivial question to answer with certainty. Implementing the arena settings could offer a way to settle that question definitively or at least as definitively as possible. If literally *everyone* who PvPs consistently chose the same settings or almost always chose the same settings, that would in effect be a vote for those settings among all players who PvP, whether they discuss the matter publicly or not. It would be strong evidence that those settings should be the ones deployed at the zones. In effect, the people whose vote matters the most would be the people who actually PvP. "
Arcanaville not every PvPer does so in the arena. I would guess the majority dont. So why would arena PvP selections decide zone rules? |
Probably because a lot of the dedicated PvPers use the Arena and so on. Yeah, you do have your really hardcore zoners in Freedom for example, but I'd wager the Devs do and did a fair amount of datamining in Arena. Heck, I'd imagine a lot of the I13 changes stemmed from Arena matches.
That said, if they could put in radio buttons that would allow us to flip mezz, damage mods, etc...go to it. If they can make Arena cross-server (without everyone needing to go to Freedom or Virtue, for example), that would be absolutely awesome.
Of course, cross-server Arena might mean you'd see something like "Yo Son I got Doritos-Freedom" and "Yo Son I got Doritos-Infinity" which would be kind of jarring. That seems like a pretty minor issue though.
Zones are likely toast anyway, short of reverting to Issue 12 rules.
What's certain is the Champion and other ladders are pretty much the last gasp for PvP in this game. Ability to revert to Issue 12...or at least removal of base resists and the options Arcana brought up would at least salvage what's left.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
Quote:
you summed it up quite nicely AZ.|
Originally Posted by Alpha_Zulu
To Arcana,
I think everything can be summed up quite simply. The devs ****** this one up. Big time. And they should revert it back to the less broken way it was before they ****** it up. End of story. |
i like you Arcana but we are way beyond the datamining game at this point because we already know the results. it is time for the dev team to fulfill their promise made almost 2 years ago to customers and go into action.
if the devs want to experiment in the future they should put those experiments in as check boxes only in the arena and not into global pvp mechanics.
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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great post. the dev team has painted a very poor picture of themselves at times (yeah i can get quotes) so it's about time to start saving some face and treating this minority group of paying customers as equals
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Originally Posted by B_Witched
not bs anymore please. Just tell us once and for all, are you going to fix pvp? See a lot of us have been trying to keep it going, events, ladders tourneys what have you...and it seems like you really really really really really really really really (enough reallys?) don't give a crap.
So just level with us - tell us lol pvp...tell us your adding more supression and heal decay and dr and other crappy ideas. JUST TELL US and we can move on. Get War Witch to tell us she has had her finger in every issue (so she says) to get her finger to type something... Look you owe us that much.. if all I get is mod smacked or nothing we can take that as your answer and wait for another mmorpg. |
A very sad story about War Witch and the neglected kitty. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=219670
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Originally Posted by Black_Barrier
Guess it's hard to click while actively trying to keep the drool away from the keyboard...
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Fossilize is broken? How so?
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it does more damage than KO blow. from 80 range. and is a hold. and is heavily procable.
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Originally Posted by AresSupreme
Fossilize is broken? How so?
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Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
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Ironically, I agree. That is in fact the end of the story until everyone who thinks that is the end of the story either changes their minds or isn't around anymore. I would really prefer the former over the latter, but that is the cold hard truth of the matter.|
Originally Posted by Alpha_Zulu
To Arcana,
I think everything can be summed up quite simply. The devs ****** this one up. Big time. And they should revert it back to the less broken way it was before they ****** it up. End of story. |
If you figure out a way to dictate uncompromising terms to the devs on the development of the game, let me know what your secret is. That's far outside my capabilities. What I'm describing is something that might actually work. Take that opinion for whatever its worth.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
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The Good:
-The armors giving global resists is a great idea I like that but the base resist for squishies should go.
-The non-offensive toggles staying on I like that and the offensive ones dropping is fine with me.
-The mez system change where mezzes actually do have an effect when you use them I do like but this system needs more fine tuning. Being unable to use a main power against a blaster or the two emps on his team to no effect because everyone has CM was bad about the old mez system. Sure you could eat players out of BFs and then it was easy pie but it shouldn't have to come to that. An all or nothing system was no good and so is one where every toon has basically an equally powerful mez as mezzing specific toons do, a lowering of what non-mez specific ATs mezzing abilities can do I think is in order but you can't all out remove it because they need to be able to knock off those offensive toggles too.
The Bad:
-Diminishing Returns in its current form. I see the need for a maximum or minimum amount of buffs and debuffs a toon should have on them but as it is now it is a joke and mostly for squishies. Raising it to scrapper level diminishing returns and the removal of global resists will help to bring back the support role a bit with more buffage for more effect. And you can also build your toon for other things than just hp. This subject boils down to having more variety.
-Power animation times doing crazy damage on some powers and a "where's the beef" effect to powers you would think that would do high damage. There should be a set value for how hard a power hits taking into count the activation time sure but there needs to be sense about it *looking at you fossilizeand sharks*. If they can't rework the power damage system to make sense they should just revert it back to PvE values so it does make sense.
-Jav proc's. In PvP's current form of damage spam things got magnified in intensity when these boys came around. This is a wait and see topic if the Diminishing Returns for players gets reevaluated but I do believe these are a bane to the damage spam game. I have a few toons with many jav proc's and I still would be for a change to them if things would not work itself out sooner or later.
-Heal Decay. I do not like heal decay for arena matches but I do see a point to it in zone. You don't really want a walking juggernaut with bottomless heals to be out there rolling the zone only because he has a emp/pain friend or two. Leaving this as is with the button for arena matches and on for zone or a slight buff to it I can see and that's why I wouldn't put it in the next topic.
The Ugly:
-Travel Suppression......
But this point is moot, more and more there's less people that could care less about what happens because the people who run this game have shown they could care less about fixing and promoting a large portion of what their game can do with just an issues worth of effort that would create more enjoyable endgame content than anything they can come up with for PvE.
Marketing won't let them comment on this.
Because if they'd comment on this then they would have to say "no."
Which would mean all the PVPers would quit.
Quote:
Yeah...but in actual practice fossilize isn't that impressive and tanks can't really kill anything.
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Originally Posted by PC_guy
it does more damage than KO blow. from 80 range. and is a hold. and is heavily procable.
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it is very impressive and fire/ss tanks kill liek a blaster
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Originally Posted by AresSupreme
Yeah...but in actual practice fossilize isn't that impressive and tanks can't really kill anything.
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Ares is pvp pro
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Originally Posted by AresSupreme
Yeah...but in actual practice fossilize isn't that impressive and tanks can't really kill anything.
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I can see how a tank with both fiery embrace and fossilize could be deadly but in general tanks aren't so scary. There are far worse things.
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It's a far easier fix to find another game to PvP in (I'm only still here for a bit of PvE until my sub runs out, unless Incarnates actually releases and is awesome) than to get the devs to admit their mistakes. Even if they reverted to i12 tomorrow and implemented every bug fix and tweak, etc. it's too late. The segment which i13 was clearly not for was small to begin with and most who have left wouldn't come back now anyway.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Ironically, I agree. That is in fact the end of the story until everyone who thinks that is the end of the story either changes their minds or isn't around anymore. I would really prefer the former over the latter, but that is the cold hard truth of the matter.
If you figure out a way to dictate uncompromising terms to the devs on the development of the game, let me know what your secret is. That's far outside my capabilities. What I'm describing is something that might actually work. Take that opinion for whatever its worth. |
I've always maintained that the devs' datamining while perhaps well-intentioned is flawed. Everything seems to be aimed for the median player with PvP ignored or worse (see also, i13) and minimal end-game. GR, while somewhat fun, being 1-20 focused only reinforces this (as does the lolzVirtue Pack releasing Soon (TM)).
I've stuck around so long because I enjoyed the game when it first came out, then because of dUmb, now I'm just finishing out my sub and looking for better options. In fairness I've retired more times than Doctor J, so here's a grain of slat to go with this post.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
That and fossilize only makes tanks zone-capable in a non-fiteklub scenario. In serious arena, they are tauntbots and that's about it.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
Quote:
The mez system has always been an issue. While I thought the i12 system could've used some tweaking, I definitely prefer it to the i13 system. Sure a team with good emps was hard to beat, but it could be done with the right combination of opposition and/or strategy. The bigger problem with zones in i12 was the lack of motivation to get those better teams and strategies together.|
Originally Posted by Championess
-The mez system change where mezzes actually do have an effect when you use them I do like but this system needs more fine tuning. Being unable to use a main power against a blaster or the two emps on his team to no effect because everyone has CM was bad about the old mez system. Sure you could eat players out of BFs and then it was easy pie but it shouldn't have to come to that. An all or nothing system was no good and so is one where every toon has basically an equally powerful mez as mezzing specific toons do, a lowering of what non-mez specific ATs mezzing abilities can do I think is in order but you can't all out remove it because they need to be able to knock off those offensive toggles too.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Championess
-Heal Decay. I do not like heal decay for arena matches but I do see a point to it in zone. You don't really want a walking juggernaut with bottomless heals to be out there rolling the zone only because he has a emp/pain friend or two. Leaving this as is with the button for arena matches and on for zone or a slight buff to it I can see and that's why I wouldn't put it in the next topic.
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That's the major, discouraing thing to me. Their solution with HD (and with i13 PvP as a whole) was to lower the bar instead of encouraging and rewarding improvement. It seems that in their eyes, PvP was/is a dead end street, only offering an occasional side attraction. They see no real potential with PvP, regarding any end-game type of content, which is the exact opposite view that I have of it. I see PvP as the only lasting challenge in the game, and I think it has loads of potential. But we're not devs, and the only way we'd see any real results would be if we had devs that were capable of seeing things the way we do. Unfortunately, these devs do not; they've never even remotely given the impression that they understand. Look at their quotes and actions.
I see no reason for optimism. I'm making do with what we have left, but there aren't many people left with which to share the remaining fun.
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more to the point the biggest zone complaint was "we don't have an emp equal." Oddly enough the devs gave us pain doms at the same time they gave us heal decay, dr and ts.
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Originally Posted by Psoma
The mez system has always been an issue. While I thought the i12 system could've used some tweaking, I definitely prefer it to the i13 system. Sure a team with good emps was hard to beat, but it could be done with the right combination of opposition and/or strategy. The bigger problem with zones in i12 was the lack of motivation to get those better teams and strategies together.
Again, good emps presented a challenge to the opposition in i12 zones, but they weren't brokenly good. Certain people just refused to organize an effort to separate emps from their teammates. I heard "That's unfair! We can't kill your emp, and then your emp keeps you alive!" The devs apparently heard this too, and that's what they listened to when they came up with HD. That's the major, discouraing thing to me. Their solution with HD (and with i13 PvP as a whole) was to lower the bar instead of encouraging and rewarding improvement. It seems that in their eyes, PvP was/is a dead end street, only offering an occasional side attraction. They see no real potential with PvP, regarding any end-game type of content, which is the exact opposite view that I have of it. I see PvP as the only lasting challenge in the game, and I think it has loads of potential. But we're not devs, and the only way we'd see any real results would be if we had devs that were capable of seeing things the way we do. Unfortunately, these devs do not; they've never even remotely given the impression that they understand. Look at their quotes and actions. I see no reason for optimism. I'm making do with what we have left, but there aren't many people left with which to share the remaining fun. |
That's true, but my point was meant to be more about devs relating more to the mindset of the complainers that acted as if emp/blaster combos were downright unbeatable (which they weren't).
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What you're really saying is the devs are Fiteklubbs who got smashed on their Fire/Ice assault blaster under the Statue in RV.
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Originally Posted by Psoma
That's true, but my point was meant to be more about devs relating more to the mindset of the complainers that acted as if emp/blaster combos were downright unbeatable (which they weren't).
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Well most of them have stated that their favorite AT to play is a Brute/Tank/Sctapper.
OLD SCHOOL PvP
Rad/Psi,Psi/Em,Fire/Em,Cld/Sonic,FF/Sonic,Grav/Ta,Storm/Psi,Sp/WP,Fire/Psi,Sonic/Pain
RIP:Southern Comfort PvP,PE PvP,INTEGRITY PvP,After School Special PvP Test SG's,TPvPL Season1+2 Runner ups
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit