I was entertaining this thought last night. Thse people are calling gamers killers and terrorists simply for playing video games. That's like half of america. What would happen if we each indicidually filed a lawsuit for slander or something 
If on the off chance, it hasn't been said yet, [censored]! Yea, most of those games are violent, but this one, and Abe? the old Playstation 1 game? Violent? For gods sake you farted to distract the gaurds!!
No, this game dose not fall under the category of violent, espescially not the numero uno super dude in all of Paragon. One day, all the old guys who are running censorship campaigns will wake up to find that all the 30 year olds my age have been forced to take office to save the idea that was our country(no, not the prude's who got kicked out England idea, the one that came later).
Next up will they put a ban on violent movies? Watch "Heat" with Robert Diniro enough times and tell me you dont know a good strategy to pull of a major heist. So what? we ban guns in movies? Then comics? Then maybe books?
Can we please put all these guys on the "bound for the Ol Folks Home" bus and steer our great nation away from the "goose-stepping" path thier are attempting to lead us down?
And for the love of all thats holy, leave Statesman alone, he already has to wear those tights....give him a break, hes doin the best he can.
CoX has absolutely no business being protrayed in this video. It's actually pretty insulting to even think that it could be. It shows you that someone who chose that image did so without knowing the product, and therefore showing that this campaign is not being truthful...just looking for recognizable images for conclusions to be jumped to.
I believe the stories of local newspapers that have reflected how the City of... products have brought families together under some of the most traditional values held in the comic industry will speak for themselves. Like many documentaries, there is only one side being shown and exploited, but far too often do we see generalities being made about something and no one takes the time to explore the issue on their own.
Perhaps the people who did this have a point, perhaps they do not. What is more interesting is that there should be more of a discussion of the horrible wrongs, but for what the potential this medium has to offer. City of... looks at that potential, and should never be included in what may be seen as a negative stereotype. It should be seen as an example of so much more than that.
Hero High: Just Around the Darkness
Arc# 131046
Angel Boy, lvl 50 Def
Alys, lvl 50 MM
Angelium, lvl 50 Troller
Kid-Q, lvl 50 Troller
Psi-kid, lvl 50 Blaster
Ice Blocked, lvl 41 Tanker
Possession, lvl 43 Dom
...and various others
[ QUOTE ]
I'm extremely disappointed that an image of Statesman would be used in such a way. I know that we designed City of Heroes to appeal to "children of all ages." My proudest accomplishment with the game is that many parents (including my brother) play with their children...sharing, I hope, the same joy for the comic book world that I've had ever since I was 8. I cannot express the shock that I felt seeing that a character created by Cryptic would be used in the same sentence as Columbine.
[/ QUOTE ]
I had given up posting on these forums for personal reasons; however, seeing this video and your reply, I felt compelled to respond for whatever my opinion is worth.
Man has always been an animal with a strong instinct for survival. Throughout our history, man has had to evolve, to adapt, to the environment in which we live in order to survive. We have reached an age where no longer we fear other predatory beast on a daily basis, so our "survival instinct" has evolved as well.
We not only fear our own weaknesses, but also the exposure of those weaknesses to other men as well. Rather than to accept the failing responsibility, man actively seeks out an outside influence to prosecute, to hold up to the world to say, "This is to blame!". All too often what we seek out is merely a reflection of our own failings.
These people have all too often sought out the influence as the chief offender rather than the deficiency in the person themselves. It is all too easy to say that we are not responsible for our own actions. This is known as the "scapegoat" effect.
More and more, we have refused to accept the responsibility of our actions. How many times have we seen on the news of a person (innocent, in their mind's eye, I might add) guilty of a social crime talk of how an outside influence controlled their decisions? I would never drive into a school bus full of children but the alcohol made me do it. I would never molest little children had not a family member/religious figure/stranger from my past molested me. I would never kill another person had not I played a first-person shooter video game.
It's a tired arguement, all to accepting by those in society who I hold the most responsible for our shortcomings. Let us rid ourselves of this evil, they say, and our society will be saved. Never mentioning, of course, that a person is capable of their own free will of committing the very acts portrayed in these video games.
I did not appoint these men to be my savior, nor will I permit them to assume that role. They are small, tiny men who lack the capacity for accepting the shortcomings of man in our society. They cannot see beyond their own nose in recognizing the genesis of our dilemma.
Should they claim victory, it is only a matter of time before they seek out another scapegoat to hold up to society and say, "this, this is to blame for our evils".
Until then, well, I've said enough. I have to get back to Paragon City. I've been notified that FrostFire has made bail again and gone back to his old ways.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aside from States... didn't they also depict Abe from Oddworld? Oddworld is eroding the moral fabric of our society?
Lawl.
Are you guys missing the parts where Abe shreds his friends to meaty chunks in meat grinders?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
[ QUOTE ]
There has been a lot of talk about video games causing violence by people like Jack Thompson. Some people agree with his views and some people do not...I for one do not. Personal opinions aside, a documentary is being made called "Moral Combat" talking about the gaming industry's effect on society. Penny Arcade listed this link . Within this trailer they have a few screenshots of Statesman, as well as shots from other games. I'm not trying to start a flamewar about video game violence, but what I do ask is this: Do you think the CoX universe really falls under the same category as the rest of the games shown in 'Moral Combat'? Is there really a reason to put a game like ours under fire? Hope this makes sense, and thanks for reading my early morning rambling.
[/ QUOTE ]
Im glad Statesman in shown in the video. I think it shows just how silly the whole anti-game side is.
I also hope it will make it very clear to developers that you should make the game you want. Sure you can spend loads of time trying to make the game as Politically Correct as you want but in the end all you have lost is the creative and fun parts of the game while the anti-gamers will still attack you anyway.
Make the games you want to play not the ones the government wants you to play.
[ QUOTE ]
Are you guys missing the parts where Abe shreds his friends to meaty chunks in meat grinders?
[/ QUOTE ]
No, we're not.
1) It's a 2D game in classic platform POV.
2) No blood whatsoever anywhere.
3) All the violence in there is quite cartoony.
So, Abe is as likely to cause a kid to kill someone as Tom and Jerry is.
Edit: also, grinding your friends into meaty chunks is NOT the goal of the game. You AVOID doing that at all costs. When it happens, in the in-game world is obviously an accident caused by Abe's stupidity, not something to be rewarded for.
www.SaveCOH.com: Calls to Action and Events Calendar
This is what 3700 heroes in a single zone looks like.
Thanks to @EnsonsDeath for the GVE code that made me VIP again!
<QR>
Humanity is offensive, isn't it? We've been a failed species since coming down from the trees.
Here's how to treat people like the makers of said "documentary:"
Spit in their faces, point and laugh mockingly. Insult their intelligence, belittle their gods, blaspheme regularly.
One day, religion will be dead, or we all will be. Either way, no great loss.
Be well, people of CoH.
I kinda like religion.
[ QUOTE ]
I kinda like religion.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh man, now you've done it. Put on your flame retardant clothing, mang.
I mean, the only thing you could've done worse is imply that any view on origins can be taken as a religion and that if you include evolutionary atheistic beliefs in the running tally of the evils of worldviews the scourge of religious intolerance and evil actions increases drastically. Just, thank the flying spaghetti monster you didn't do that, okay?
The Paladin
Steel Canyon, Virtue
Exalted
@Paladin
<---disgusted by that video clip. nuff said
@Leelow
@Death Wish
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I kinda like religion.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh man, now you've done it. Put on your flame retardant clothing, mang.
I mean, the only thing you could've done worse is imply that any view on origins can be taken as a religion and that if you include evolutionary atheistic beliefs in the running tally of the evils of worldviews the scourge of religious intolerance and evil actions increases drastically. Just, thank the flying spaghetti monster you didn't do that, okay?
[/ QUOTE ]
U need da Lord-ah!
[ QUOTE ]
<QR>
Humanity is offensive, isn't it? We've been a failed species since coming down from the trees.
Here's how to treat people like the makers of said "documentary:"
Spit in their faces, point and laugh mockingly. Insult their intelligence, belittle their gods, blaspheme regularly.
One day, religion will be dead, or we all will be. Either way, no great loss.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed!
And it seems silly to show Statesman...talking. While all of the other video games actually SHOWED head exploding, face eating, blood spattering violence.
Maybe he said a naughty word.
As I said before, you can quite intentionally grind, shoot, blow up, incinerate, electrocute and crush your friends, as well as throw them off high places or have them eaten by wild animals. Of course, if you do that a lot, they let the bad guys drop you inside a meat grinder at the end, so that's some mitigation
It's just that I kind of draw the line of "cartoony violence" at people getting cut into bloody chunks with a wet, slushing sound. The game has a very dark, cynical and quite serious atmosphere overall, so it's not quite like Tom and Jerry or Buggs Bunny. Not quite mass murderer material, but it definitely has its violence and adult themes.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
[ QUOTE ]
I've noticed a few people arguing about whether the tendency to promote censorship is more prominent in "left-wing" or "right-wing" platforms. I would argue that using "left" and "right" in any political argument invalidates everything you say. For the most part they are both smears and both mean "poopyhead". At best they are a lazy shorthand for a large number of political positions that are not linked to each other except that we are in the habit of thinking that they are. What I mean is that it is a big mistake to treat people as being on opposite sides of the political fence when they tend to agree on how government power ought to be used. A close look at most political systems will show that "left" and "right" convey no useful information whatsoever.
[/ QUOTE ]
ABOUT [censored] TIME SOMEONE REALIZED THIS.
[ QUOTE ]
The Reply is priceless! I love it!
Oh, if they did not ask for permission to use a Trademark of NC Soft in their video, when are you going to sue them?
[/ QUOTE ]
It's a documentary - as such they use the "Fair Use" provisions to get around permission.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
I've been a fan of Senator Lieberman for a long time, but this is one issue we've never agreed upon. For those that think he takes this stand for votes, I don't. I believe he truly does believe in the effect the media has on our children. The problem is, he's gone to taking government action rather then focusing on the real issue - the parents.
I was very disappointed to see this video and to see Sen. Lieberman involved. I'll be sure to let him know that whenever I next see him. The intellectual leap that the video takes is beyond the bounds that anyone can take seriously. Putting Statesman into the same scene as Columbine? Seriously? And Flight Simulator is to blame for 9/11? So any educational software that could be used for destruction must be dumbed down to the point where it is no longer educational? Wrong approach, and I can only hope that these videos show how wrong it is rather then accomplishing their goals.
Zapping, 50 storm/elec
Rain King, 50 ice/storm
Ard, 50 NB/SR
The rest of my lineup
Justice, Freedom and Virtue Servers
www.repeat-offenders.net
Avatar by Altoholic_Monkey!
The reply is the worst possible way to have responded.
-No backup for claims
-Poor use of fontsize
-Overused music (Silence is a better way to do this)
-Cursing
-Feels more like an attack ad than anything else.
Sorry about the use of Statesman, Jack.
And to those who are trying to put this off as a non-issue... Politically, it's just like abortion/same sex marriage. The litmus tests, the hot buttons, the base mobilizers... I'm sure that the politicians know that this stuff is just silly, but they also know that it's a way to make themselves look good.
One might even consider game developers and gamers the perfect scapegoats for enduring political games.
1. The industry is growing. making lots of money, and could only be seriously hurt by legislation. That is, no matter what's said, politicians don't have to worry their words making a lasting effect.
2. The industry has a very strong and easy defense in the First amendment. Also, consider that in addition to the legal teams developers would bring, Microsoft's legal team would be brought in. There's going to be a huge amount of defense, and once precedent is set, the defense only gets easier.
3. Almost by definition, Gamers are unlikely to mobilize to express their disgust. We don't get in people's faces because we're... playing games.
4. The highly visual medium of video games (especially as they become more photorealistic) can be used to great effect without a lot of lead-in. Show realistic violence, blood, sexual content... All the stuff that sells on TV, but tie it to the word 'game', and... MY GOD! CHILDREN PLAY GAMES! MUST SMASH! PROTECT CHILDREN! NO OTHER INFORMATION MATTERS!
We all just sit around, making our devestatingly intelligent and well-reasoned arguments against things like this horribly-concieved trailer, but if we don't show up in Washington DC, grab airtime on major networks and present these arguments to the nation and have them on record, our exploitation as a political tool will keep on happening.
My Motto: "Debt is merely another Goal."
"Wow Abalest--you manage to start a discussion even when you ain't given a topic" -Ghostman
Abalests on Infinity:
Miss Fulcrum
Dark Soul Golem
Power Drain
This is just another phase of the United States where we blame things that have gone on since the begining of time (violence) on a new technology that some do not understand.
Here are some examples that came and went:
Jazz, Rock 'n Roll, Heavy Metal, movies, comic books, TV.
All of the above were condemned by parents saying something along the lines of "This has a bad influence on my child!" when really, it was the parents having the bad influence. If you (parents) deem something too mature for your 8 year old, dont let them do it. Don't let them play GTA (a rated "Mature" game no less), dont let them listen to Cannibal Corpse, so on and so forth.
And for all the politicians that say "Video games are making our youth more violent!". Look at the facts, go back to the 20s, no video games, but kids still grew up to be mobsters. Any war, we send 18 year olds out to kill people from another country, we ENCOURAGE them to.
If someone goes out and steals a car, runs over civllians, and has a rocket launcher fight with the police and blames GTA for their problems, its not GTA. That person had a warped mind.
And here is one final thought, Religious Wars have caused more death than anything else in this world. More than video games, more than heavy metal, more than rap and hip-hop, more than gang violence. Yet we don't condemn religion do we?
[ QUOTE ]
... Yet we don't condemn religion do we?
[/ QUOTE ]
No, of course not! That would be too offending to a wide and well known audience![/stupidpolitician]
[ QUOTE ]
Yet we don't condemn religion do we?
[/ QUOTE ]
Every day of my life and with my last breath will do so as well.
Be well, people of CoH.
[ QUOTE ]
An informed opinion based on legal fact v. an uninformed opinion based on wrong information. Devil's advocate is advantageous only if you make cogent arguments.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
An informed opinion based on legal fact v. an uninformed opinion based on wrong information
[/ QUOTE ]
Fair enough.
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, they sued. And they lost. You can't win on 'unauthorized pictures' if you're a celebrity. You can't win on 'unfavorableness' if it's true. The only times celebrities have won (which is rare) is when a tabloid printed an out-and-out lie.
[/ QUOTE ]
Although it's true that many celeb lawsuits get "tossed out", there are still many that never see a court because they are settled outside of court, and dropped.
And there are some cases whereas the celebrity wins as the plaintiff. Naomi Campbell, who's more notorius for being sued by housekeepers and agents than filing charges, won a lawsuit against a British tabloid the Daily Mirror in 2001 for published pictures that invaded her privacy and harmed her career. Although it flipped twice, the ruling eventually was in her favor. From the reference:
[ QUOTE ]
In February 2001 pictures were published in the Daily Mirror newspaper showing Campbell leaving a Narcotics Anonymous meeting in London. In March 2002 Campbell sued the paper citing a breach of confidentiality, since she was receiving treatment for drug addiction at the time. The Mirror claimed that the pictures were in the public interest as Campbell had denied having a drug problem publicly and had, up to that point, not been known or demonstrated to be a drug addict. The High Court ruled in Campbell's favour and the Mirror was ordered to pay £3,500 in damages (although legal costs were thought to be around £500,000.) In October 2002, the Mirror won an Appeal Court ruling that the photographs were indeed in the public interest. Campbell was ordered to pay the costs of the Mirror's legal fees, a cost of around £350,000. However, in May 2004 the Law Lords overturned the Appeal Court ruling by a 3 to 2 majority, which reinstated the High Court's original decision, and Campbell was rewarded £3,500 and the £350,000 legal costs. The Mirror's legal cost is thought to be over £1,000,000. The case is also thought to be a landmark in the rights of celebrities to privacy.
[/ QUOTE ]
But perhaps a parallel to celebs isn't such a good anology since the lines between misrepresentation and privacy can often be mixed in tabloid cases, since their personal lives in the media can adversely affect their ability to work.
As far as pure misrepresentation is concerned, a better parallel may be an injunction against DirecTV by Time Warner. From the reference:
[ QUOTE ]
The new tagline suggests that DIRECTV's high-def picture is as good as any other TV provider, but not necessarily better. The satcaster said in the first Simpson commercial (and an earlier spot featuring Star Trek's William Shatner) that its picture quality "beats cable."
The change was made after cable operator Time Warner sued the satcaster, saying it made a false claim regarding the picture quality. In its lawsuit, Time Warner said it provides "exactly the same screen resolution" as DIRECTV's HDTV picture.
[/ QUOTE ]
In DirecTV's advertising to sell their product, they misrepresented the product of their competitors, causing the lawsuit to be filed.
Transitively, wouldn't picturing Statesman in a video decrying violence in video games be a misrepresentation of his image? In selling their product (tough video game legislation or the cessation of violent video game production), isn't Jack Thompson et al misrepresenting Cryptic and NCSoft's properties? The fictional character Statesman is against bloody violence and capital punishment. Placing his image in the same backdrop as Hitman, GTA, Doom3, and others is a gross misrepresentation of his character and the game in general.
NCSoft has done much to maintain their Teen rating for CoH and CoV. A character from a Teen rated game is not even in the same class as those appearing in Mature rated games.
[ QUOTE ]
We all lambasted Marvel for their baseless suit against Cryptic, and you're saying a little baseless litigation is now OK?
[/ QUOTE ]
I read the Marvel lawsuit, and even wrote a disapproving letter to Marvel regarding the invalidity of the suit. Marvel's lawsuit against NCSoft and Cryptic was not about slander, libel, or misrepresentation; they were not slandering Marvel or any of its intellectual property, or stating that it was ruining the nation's youth be depicting violence in their works.
The lawsuit was about alleged copyright infringement. The claimed that the companies allowed (and even encouraged) players to create Marvel characters with their Character Creation system. However, the case was all but dismissed because of the companies' EULA against copyright infringement, and that the suit was akin to suing a pen manufacturer because someone used their pens to draw Marvel characters. Marvel even put holes in their own case by creating on CoH some of the characters referenced in their suit. Finally, nowhere in any game manuals or documents do the companies specifically say you can create Marvel characters in their game.
[ QUOTE ]
You don't know what you're talking about.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, like I said, I'm no lawyer, but I am also not a rock or houseplant.
Now, I can see your argument. Would a case like this be hard to prove in court? Definitely. Would it outside the realm of possibility like you suggested? IMHO, no. Would be a frivolous lawsuit? That depends on one's point of view. It certainly would depend on many factors, such how widely distributed the movie is, and it's affect on the media and the public. The more people who are negatively affected by the film, the stronger a case would be.
by the sheer fact that they are grouping games like GTA and CoH/V together shows they have no idea what they are talking about.
@Phillon
Twitter @FiveIronBrony
[ QUOTE ]
Can the company sue if the video wasn't used for profit?
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think a lawsuit - even if possible, is the right response.
I think its fine that they spout their nonsense for this reason: The number of morons who actually believe this stuff is significantly smaller than the number of us who actually are both responsible citizen and gamer.
Keith Olbermann said, in responding to Newt Gingrich's assertion a couple months back that "Perhaps we should limit free speech" -
His response is summed up well as:
An idea that cannot survive in the marketplace of ideas will be consigned to the dustbin on its own. We must battle bad ideas with good ideas, rather than putting a lid on bad ideas - because to crack down on a bad idea is to give it legitimacy. To discredit it, is to destroy it.
So a lawsuit, however much fun it may well be to see these folks cringe... is less worthy than being able to conclusively prove that gamers are responsible for no more murders than anyone else and thus it can't be games that cause violence.
(And of course - people regularly forget that other countries sometimes have far more violent games/movies than we do here in the US commonly (I'm lookin at you Japan...) yet... Japan has an extremely low crime rate. It's gone up slightly as the economy has fluxed some - but still, remarkably low all things considered)
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.