Too. Many. Posts. But I have one comment that's not about the children...
Statesman is a copyrighted HERO, that is being shown in a clip about video game violence causing things such as Columbine. This is as if Superman, a beloved DC copyrighted hero character, were being done the same way. It's stupid that it happened at all, and is obviously wrong.
But the important part is 'Copyrighted', ladies and gentlemen.
If I were Cryptic, or any other of the parties involved with any of their characters being used, I believe I would have the studio, et al, tied up in court and this 'film' would never see the light of day.
But that's just me I guess.
Thoughts?
August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012
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Now that you bring up your whole story, Robo Knight, it makes me wonder...
jack thompson is probably some rich kid, who went to a really nice school, was/is spoiled by rich parents, got sent to a fancy law school blah blah blah...
In other words: He's never seen the outside world, except from the behind the slimy metallic wings of his parents. 
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I wasnt some "rich kid" who never saw the outside world, my family wasnt sue happy and were middle class. I've never played the blame game and I hope I never do. So please dont even think about comparring jackass thompson with me.
My Lego Models http://www.flickr.com/photos/30369639@N07/ lemur lad: God you can't be that stupid... I'm on at the same time as you for once, and not 20 minutes into it you give me something worth petitioning?Lady-Dee: Hey my fat keeps me warm in the winter and shady in the summer.
I wasn't. I'm sorry if it seemed like it was, but it just came to me as I reading your post. Sorry.
I would like to throw in my input on this. For me video games were an outlet for the frustrations that I felt during my childhood and sometimes a good source of entertainment. However I did have a few friends and a family that were interested in my well being so I didn't feel totally alienated when I was picked on and harrassed when I was at school.
In my personal view I feel that the incidents like Columbine were caused by the social environments, bad parents, uncaring teachers, peers and adults. Reason why I feel that video games and other media forms were blamed is simple, it's an undeniable truth. Lets face it some games are very violent, there are movies and music lyrics that either encourages or idolizes this behavior. So when something like Columbine occurs it's easy to point at something like video games, movies, and music. At best it's like pointing to the sky and saying it's blue, it's just there plain as can be.
To admit that a school shooting, mall rampage, or some other act of evil commited by some child or teen was caused by bad parenting, bullies, and uncaring teachers and adults. Would mean that a moral failure occured and to admit that would also imply that society in itself is a failure and I just don't think the people could deal with that. That the society they lived and functioned in has suddenly become nothing but some failed experiement to allow something like this to occur, and rather than take the time to address and do the work necessary to fix the issue it's better to play the blame game, put a band-aid on it, and go on as if nothing occured.
One of the things I've always wondered was what would happen if this was different. Instead of someone underage what about an adult. Would people be quick and up in arms to demonize video games and other media forms if an adult started to shoot at people because he played video games, watched violent movies, listened to violent music? Or would they go wow that guy was fruit loops crazy and deserves to die like a rapid animal?
Now as for this documentary. Lets face it, to me it's not a documentary at best it's a movie to project the following messages, that video games are the cause of moral decay and violence in america's youth, the industry doesn't care and/or is greedy, and to make people like Jack Thompson and Senator Joe Lieberman look like crusaders of truth and justice. Personally I find it shameful when they mentioned that Al-Qaeda members used MS flight simulator sims to train the 9/11 hijackers. At best this was a bad attempt to imply and spark a irrational fear that is not needed.
Not sure why Abe from Oddworld or Statesman would even be in this movie. At best I see it as a ploy by the makers of the film. Try to tie some games that are not so violent as say Hitman or Grand Theft Auto. Maybe cause a some kind of legal action to be taken and then the film makers can go "See the game industry is taking us to court cause they dont want you (the public) to see this movie" without even trying to mention what game or studio is involved and thus some how feed the propaganda of this film, but that's just me.
Paragon Unleashed Forums
Twitter: @Alpha_Ryvius
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I wasn't. I'm sorry if it seemed like it was, but it just came to me as I reading your post. Sorry.
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It's okay, 
monkey defication happens. 
My Lego Models http://www.flickr.com/photos/30369639@N07/ lemur lad: God you can't be that stupid... I'm on at the same time as you for once, and not 20 minutes into it you give me something worth petitioning?Lady-Dee: Hey my fat keeps me warm in the winter and shady in the summer.
Heres a breakdown of what I think of this video, what impact it may have, and my personal opinions about this discussion. Feel free to add, etc, etc.
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Whoever tells the stories, defines the culture. Now, the storytellers for millions of our kids are video games. Violence has always been with us, its been with us since cain slew abe. But its always be recongized as a vice, not a virtue.
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True, yes. Storytellers do define the culture, stories past down from one generation to another is what helps children, people, and societies build their morals. Now, according to these guys, the storytellers are video games. While a very broad and in my opinion, incorrect statement. Lets review this.
Why? Why are the video-games telling the stories to children? Because parents are either too lazy, or they are too pre-occupied with the ratrace of life to do it themselves. Games, T.V, Movies, etc. They have all been a way for parents to "get away" from their children. Once again, repeated for the who knows how many times. RESPONSIBILITY RELIES WITH THE PARENTS. If I was a parent, and my 8 year old was playing GTA3. First thing I would do is take it away, lock it up for a good 5-8 years. Child cries, well. Now is a good time to teach the child some morals huh?
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We issued a challange to the video game industry, we said don't want to get into this, and have the government regulate video games, and force you to adopt a rating system. But if you don't do it yourself. We will.
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Wow... just simply wow. You don't want to get into this? So don't. Just walk away there... But apparently you DO. So nice contradictary sentence there.
Anyway, every game I look at now-a-days does indeed have a rating system. I find it to be a very good rating system. I'll tell ya a story.
I was recently buying a video-game for my 6 year old niece, katheryn. She was with me, and I told her to pick out a video game. Anyone. Just, go ahead. Pick. She picked up "Mortal Kombat: Deception". I simply turned to her and said this. "Hm.. Sweetie, this game may be a bit too old for you. I'll show you." So I turned the box around, and shown her the ESRB, and helped her understand how the rating system works. I told her that the M, meant for Mature. Older people may enjoy this game, it features a few things she didn't find pleasant. Like Blood, Gore, etc. In the end, she picked out a cute little Kitty Sim. Loves the game, plays it all the time.
Anyway, just by sitting down there for that brief period and explaining to her how the rating system works. I may have set her on a path where she understands what she can, and cannot play untill she has matured enough to understand the concept, and not go completely nuts over it.
My take on Nature vs Nuture however. Alot of you may have different opinions.
Anyway, this video is long and boring. So heres my final take on this video.
Statesman, your presence in this video is highly unjust. You are a symbol of justice, heroism, and peace. I was highly peeved when I saw your face in this video, to the point I had to rewind and see it again just to believe it. I can't comprehend how you feel towards it. But I can believe you are just as astronished as the rest of us.
I really fear that this will have a negative impact upon the MMO I love dearly and do not want to see people accusing me of being violent because I play City of ...
I seriously hate what the media is doing blaming violence on something I enjoy that helps me relax and have a good day. Yes, a few games have made me angry when they were difficult. But that anger I channeled into playing better, and overcoming a challange in a game makes me feel better about myself and such. There is nothing wrong with that, I enjoy it and I enjoy gaming with friends and family.
Where is the crime in that? Where is the violence? Did I hit anyone? Did I throw my wii-mote into the T.V again?
Anyway /end rant
@Daniell
~Infinity
Hell's Flare, 50 Fire/Fire Blaster
Kid Powers, 50 Sonic/EM Blaster
Imprisoned Devil, 50 Spines/DA Scrapper
Winter Kitty, 50 Claws/SR
Kheldian Kitten, 40 Peacebringer
Psionic Fury, 38 Kin/Psi Defender
Leader of Citrus Grove, Infinity
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We are what we pretend to be...
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...
If that is the main quote these guys are using to fight these violent video games, they can use a serious change, not the video game industry.
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Whoever tells the stories defines the culture.
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This quote right at the beginning caught my attention. When you really think about this quote, it really does have a strong point.
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Yet we don't condemn religion do we?
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Every day of my life and with my last breath will do so as well.
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You might as well start bashing gays, irish, blacks, and women if you are going to bash religion. Why leave anyone out. See no difference in the intolerance.
Keep that stuff out of the forums plz
Post deleted by BillZBubba
Be well, people of CoH.
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Yet we don't condemn religion do we?
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Every day of my life and with my last breath will do so as well.
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You might as well start bashing gays, irish, blacks, and women if you are going to bash religion. Why leave anyone out. See no difference in the intolerance.
Keep that stuff out of the forums plz
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What are you talkin' about, man, that's not the same at all. It's about the organization and the system, not the people.
Hey, also... there's no "assault on Christmas" either... just fyi.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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This quote right at the beginning caught my attention. When you really think about this quote, it really does have a strong point.
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tha'ts true, but there are more and more games that allow you to create your own ending, so... what does that say?
If a game allows you to take the path of "evil" as well as the path of "good", what does that do the argument being used in this movie?
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
I could understand a game like Manhunt getting folks riled up... I never even saw the finale of it. Quit when I got to pigboy.
The game depressed me. There was an actual, negative, physical response to it. Took a while, though.
Regardless, I'm glad I live in a country that allowed me the RIGHT to play it and make my OWN judgement about it.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Yet we don't condemn religion do we?
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Every day of my life and with my last breath will do so as well.
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You might as well start bashing gays, irish, blacks, and women if you are going to bash religion. Why leave anyone out. See no difference in the intolerance.
Keep that stuff out of the forums plz
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You shouldn't have replied. There's a vast difference between hating a PERSON and hating a BELIEF structure.
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It IS a life style, so [censored] applies none-the-less. You still have no businees attacking that sort of thing. And that post was just the furthest down the list, I could pull up some better ones from this thread, but decided to grab a mild one.
(For the record, I am not just some religious nut. I mentioned those others because those are all things I have also told people not to post on since I've been on the forums there is no real connection between religion and the yahoos in that video, therefore irrelevant. About as relevant as the oh so intelligent people that blamed the "right" wing for the film.)
I've played games like that.
Unforunately, I live in Canada which means that whatever the States decides we'll likely be right on their heels.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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I've played games like that.
Unforunately, I live in Canada which means that whatever the States decides we'll likely be right on their heels.
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Hey, at least they decided to go metric.
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I've played games like that.
Unforunately, I live in Canada which means that whatever the States decides we'll likely be right on their heels.
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Hey, at least they decided to go metric.
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Go Metric or go American!
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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IMHO, i think the people who made that video only put Statesman in there because their Inv/SS Tank got nerfed....
Other than that, absolutely unbelivable that CoX was in that video.....and on a funny note? Some of us that are police officers play GTA....and we tend to know its not the video games that make kids shoot at us, but censoring videogames is a lot easier than getting a 17 yr old off crack, so which do you think theyre gonna try to get done? Yep, the ol' censor it game
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Video Games influence people sure. But so do movies, music, that guy talking over there......everything can. Maybe if we had more of a precedent to just teach people right from wrong.
The main thing I see here, and what our friends in washington seem to forget, is that people were killing each other before all this stuff was in existance. You are going to do things you have a tendency for regardless. Can some of these things encourage a tendency that you already have? You'd be foolish to think otherwise.
But depressed people listen to depressing music
Religious people read religious literature
Violent people play violent video games
Not all the people that participate in those activities ARE that way, but because those activies attract those types of people, it is blamed for the problem, or perceived problem.
As has been stated many times, you can blame all those "hands-off" parents of today for not trying to mold the little ones correctly by holding off until the right time to expose them to certain things. And in a few cases holding off TOO long. <---That's for a few other things though.
(On a side note, tradgically there is a high volume of single parents. Although many do a fantastic job, one parent is going to have a harder time IN GENERAL for meeting the full spectrum of a childs needs and in turn just gives them whatever they can to calm them down/get them out of their hair.)
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I could understand a game like Manhunt getting folks riled up... I never even saw the finale of it. Quit when I got to pigboy.
The game depressed me. There was an actual, negative, physical response to it. Took a while, though.
Regardless, I'm glad I live in a country that allowed me the RIGHT to play it and make my OWN judgement about it.
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I'm with ya. Let me choose.
Now here is what is funny about a couple of the folks on that video.
If you look at their record, they have been all for loosening the reigns that are around prime time television, a form of media that is harder to control within a specific household since once you have a TV, there is a wide variety of things that can be viewed even with parental blocks, but feel VGs, a good that you have to buy very specific items to acquire "bad" material, are where they need to censor.............Huh.
Nah, there can't be ANY sort of political gain that these folks were looking for.
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I could understand a game like Manhunt getting folks riled up... I never even saw the finale of it. Quit when I got to pigboy.
The game depressed me. There was an actual, negative, physical response to it. Took a while, though.
Regardless, I'm glad I live in a country that allowed me the RIGHT to play it and make my OWN judgement about it.
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Perfect example. The game you wanted was available to you. You tried it... didn't like it... and stopped playing. You made the choice for yourself.
Every politician needs to know that this is what responsibile people do. When they don't like something, they avoid it. They don't sue. They don't call the FCC. They say "I'm changing the channel" or "I'm popping-in a new game".
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I'm extremely disappointed that an image of Statesman would be used in such a way. I know that we designed City of Heroes to appeal to "children of all ages." My proudest accomplishment with the game is that many parents (including my brother) play with their children...sharing, I hope, the same joy for the comic book world that I've had ever since I was 8. I cannot express the shock that I felt seeing that a character created by Cryptic would be used in the same sentence as Columbine.
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I agree. If that had been, say spider-man and not Statesman in that picture... how many people are willing to bet Marvel would be putting their legal department on overtime?
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... there are more and more games that allow you to create your own ending, so... what does that say?
If a game allows you to take the path of "evil" as well as the path of "good", what does that do the argument being used in this movie?
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Becuase, still, in the end, it's just a game.
When I played Fable I took the good path. Did all the stuff I wanted to do/completed the main quest.
But after I was finished using my "main" to get all the joicy story details I wanted to be ebil[/i]!!
This doesn't mean I'm an evil person, especially considering the fact that I like spelling evil with a B... 
There is alot of that. I will nearly always play all the different paths on games that offer a choice of paths. Lionhead is big on it but there is also KOTOR. It's just fun playing the games you like over and having a different story unfold.
Watching the trailer and then just skimming the responses in the thread I'm going to narrow my comments.
I think the inclusion of a head shot of Statesman was nonsensical in the trailer. I would have to see a full program broadcast to make any further commentary on that inclusion.
As far as the whole 'Moral Kombat' issue, we humans are emotional beings, led to action or in-action by both inside self-morality and outside environmental pressure. By 'environmental pressure' I mean anything that directly or indirectly affects us, whether real or imagined.
If an individual's self morality is weak, then outside pressures more influence their behavior and thought processes. They accept those outward pressures as more accurate than inward ones. This can lead to both positive and negative behavior depending on where that outward influence comes from.
Can video games inspire people (not just children)? YES!
Are video games evil? No, but some can inspire acceptance of behavior which is against the popular morality of the day.
The measure of that effect is based on that inside moral strength of the individual. Some children are more impressionable than others, as are some adults.
In my opinion, peers with strong inward moral compasses are what help to keep the less strong individuals from unacceptable behavior. And if people do not have those kind of peers, then we see behaviors deviate to the extremes.
And this is a symptom of the modern era in which we live, where interpersonal communication with peers often comes with the caveat 'You can't tell me what's right or wrong'. In this age, morality is being less defined by religion and more by legal laws and statues which are broad based to allow for wide acceptance of differing backgrounds.
And as well, the accepted morals of the day are shaped by the media a person is exposed to in their life. Any media, read, heard, seen, etc. All goes into the equation of what influences us. We can become outraged or desensitized, moved to action or in-action. The problem we modern age citizens face is in the many forms of media we are bombared with from myriad sources, both based on reality and fantasy.
The US was founded on ideals that were broadcast by word of mouth, sung in songs, and written in pamphlets. Great orators have always held a power to influence people for good or evil. Now we face media in the form of games which come the minds of a few individuals.
Sure video games are 'just' games. Yet their influence upon those who play them exists at some level.
I personally don't like FPSes because their sole intent and purpose is about directly 'killing' other individuals and many popular FPSes relish being animatedly realistic in the brutality of the method of killing with the commesurate gore. Is that necessary? Nope, and you can turn off the blood in most of these games. Maybe this is one reason that CoX is more acceptable to me, it doesn't go after the blood and gore, but rather the defeat. I play characters who weild powers and weapons capable of great damage, yet I can avoid the brutality while savoring the defeat. And if my character is defeated he is still bodily intact and can instantly revive, so death in this universe is treated as a non-existent thing.
As a player of CoX I have to suspend any moral outrage at death and killing, and I willingly do this. Yet at some level it saddens me to think I derive some pleasure and distraction from real life through hurting others, albeit ficticious animated beings. Perhaps it is because our daily lives are filled with more mundane tasks that we seek outlets like this, or maybe because it is just one avenue of activity we can choose out of thousands.
Whatever the reason video games are popular, we must realize we have a duty to our peers and ourselves to recognize the level of effect they may have on us, and to put them in the proper perspective of being only 'games' and not allowing them to have a delitorious effect of any kind. And as kind friends, lets not be afraid of giving the word of caution to those who allow games to become their lives instead of just a facet of momentary distraction.
"It is that balance, the ground between EB and AV, where the PvP struggle should exist. Where a 1v1 becomes a struggle of equals, and 1vMany gives the benefit to the 1."
Freedom: Fireocity, Electro Imp, Gotya
Infinity: Meteor Storm, Mutai Kid, General Bot, Da Smasher
I agree with some of what they are saying, but cox does not at all fit into their decriptions. I understand the little mike tv's playing gta and being rewarded to kill cops, but with the flight simulators, apparently they didn't remember that terrorists were and probably still are going to american flight schools.
I think that Cryptic and Co* has made that moral decision many times, and with the use of the word 'Defeat' as a replacement for 'Kill' has set them apart from many other games. If I were to say anything in defense of Cryptic, they have made the efforts to prevent that kind of imagery in their games.
However, I feel that when it comes to the current situation about computer games it should apply the same to television, music, books.. any media. Any type of medium or expression should be set for any community with social strictures and taboos have an outlet, yet there should be a lesson beyond that: These are games, books, ideas, that should understood with an amount of perspective. At the end of that perspective, a lesson must be learned that these are not acceptable behaviours outside of their own medium. A responsible parent should be able to go to the lengths as to take an interest in their own child's life, be able to be firm and flat out say 'no', destroy the video games, keep them from watching violent movies, monitor the ratings of media that is being exposed to their children and form that decision for themselves. Outright banning and burning for the sake of society removes the rights of folks who can use the outlet for it's original intended purpose (being an outlet) and can return to healthy behaviour afterwards. Games that are rated 'Mature' and clearly state on the packaging as to what nature of the material makes the medium's exposure of that rating is a tool for parents that is clearly disregarded in many many cases.
I've had this discussion with one of my fellow employees at work who was upset about his kid playing GTA on the playstation in his own house. I flat out told him, if you see him playing the game, take out the CD and break it. He can yell all he wants about how much money he spent on it, you tell him why you broke it, why it bothers you, and give him some perspective on why that stuff is 'bad.'
It all boils down to showing an active interest in your own kid's life. Kids are behaving this way because they aren't getting enough attention.. schools are overcrowded, lacking in true discipline, and growing more impersonal. Kids are being moved from location to location without lasting relationships, kids are forming cliques and polarizing their alienation against one another.
The media isn't helping much but the cancer isn't the games, it's the parents lack of attention. It is being said over and over by all the kids and all that has been happening is blamestorming by the parents for a failing themselves.
EDIT:
My parents kept me from watching horror movies when I was little, kept me away from violent video games, monitored what television shows I could watch, and talked with me on many occasions as to why I couldn't. They even kept me away from kids whose parents would let their kids expose themselves to that. Once I was able to demonstrate that perspective the gloves came off slowly and I was able to adapt with that knowledge. I wasn't happy with them then, but I understand now why they did that, and I would go through those measures if I were able to have kids myself. Its not the restrictions, it is the active attention I got... that is the number 1 thing for parenting.