[ QUOTE ]
From what I've seen, it's gone like this.
ZOMG! Radio Plays will ruin our children! They'll try to act out what they hear! BAN IT! Think of the children!
and that didn't work. So
ZOMG! Comic Books will ruin our children! They'll try to act out what they read! BAN IT! Please think of the children!
THAT didn't work. So
ZOMG! MOVIES will ruin our children! They'll try to act out what they watch! BAN IT! Will you PLEASE think of the children!?
Again, it didn't work. So
ZOMG! Dungens & Dragons will ruin our children! They'll try to act out what the RP! BAN IT! Will you *PLEASE* think of the children already?!
Again, same reaction. (You seeing a pattern here?) So
ZOMG! Rock and Roll will ruin our children! They'll act out what they're hearing! THINK OF THE CHILDREN ALREADY!
Once again, Head On: applied directly to your forehead. So
ZOMG! Video Games will ruin our children! They'll act out what they do in the games! BAN IT! Why won't you think of the children?!
It ain't working, and I'm quite sure it won't work in the end. We still have comic books, rock and roll, radio plays (though those aren't as big as they used to), movies and all that.
Granted, when the government actually does get involved and tries to ban games, we all jump on their backs and make them remember that They work for Us and we can make sure They no longer do and we find someone Else to work for Us.
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Don't forget MMO addiction. The newest issue that parents are going crazy about. As much as it is dumb, some of it is true just take a look at this
You raise some interesting points Biostem...
However, in Japan:
1. relevant... thus my point on The Media.
2. Actually, in Japan the reverse is true! This year, will see Japan's population decrease! Add to that, the population they have is 'greying'... getting older, with actually LESS competition for jobs now than there was 5 years ago. This has led to other problems tho': the tax burden of the pension system is expected to increase... and those entering the workforce now are unlikely to have ANY pension at all!
3. Indeed.
4. In Japan, most families are still single-income units (post having children). The entire society is generally built on this... that is changing somewhat, but slowly. Another entirely different set of issues regarding support for 'stay-at-home-mothers' exists tho'... a different story!
5. Again, this perhaps can be attributed to the influence of *Media*...
Some nicely thought out points tho' Biostem - I look forward to more discussion on the topic (from all & sundry)!
And an interesting addition McKenzie - the Bible is one of the most violent books ever written... I wonder how many of the bible-thumpers politicos have actually read it in it's entirety...
To be sure, some valuable messages there tho'! 
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And an interesting addition McKenzie - the Bible is one of the most violent books ever written... I wonder how many of the bible-thumpers politicos have actually read it in it's entirety...
To be sure, some valuable messages there tho'!
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Read it? They'd rather thump it, or thump people with it, I'm not sure which. Though I did always get a kick out of seeing it on the banned books list, back when I worked in a book store. You've got to wonder about anyone who wants their own faith's holy book banned. Though that goes clear back to the invention of the printing press and the banning of the bible in English.
Eh, I think it's a bit like food: everything's bad for you, but not eating is really bad for you. 
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I'm extremely disappointed that an image of Statesman would be used in such a way. I know that we designed City of Heroes to appeal to "children of all ages." My proudest accomplishment with the game is that many parents (including my brother) play with their children...sharing, I hope, the same joy for the comic book world that I've had ever since I was 8. I cannot express the shock that I felt seeing that a character created by Cryptic would be used in the same sentence as Columbine.
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It's called libel, and lawyers would probably love to represent Cryptic and yourself in that case. 
Wow... I just discovered that this hasn't been released as a movie yet (I live in Japan - we are always quite a bit behind re. new releases. I operated on the assumption folks had actually SEEN this movie)... I googled... I yahoo-searched... I IMBd'd... the ONLY footage I could find was a gamepolitics.com article, and a YouTube clip.
Isn't the kneejerk reaction to something we haven't seen a little premature?
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Wow... I just discovered that this hasn't been released as a movie yet (I live in Japan - we are always quite a bit behind re. new releases. I operated on the assumption folks had actually SEEN this movie)... I googled... I yahoo-searched... I IMBd'd... the ONLY footage I could find was a gamepolitics.com article, and a YouTube clip.
Isn't the kneejerk reaction to something we haven't seen a little premature?
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Perhaps. I await the actual movie before fomulating any carved in stone opinions. However, I find it difficult to even imagine a debate/documentary breaking from the theme of its trailer (and it's sensational naming) to suddenly present itself as even-handed.
So in conclusion, having never seen the actual feature, I can pass no judgement, but I am certainly skeptical.
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Wow... I just discovered that this hasn't been released as a movie yet (I live in Japan - we are always quite a bit behind re. new releases. I operated on the assumption folks had actually SEEN this movie)... I googled... I yahoo-searched... I IMBd'd... the ONLY footage I could find was a gamepolitics.com article, and a YouTube clip.
Isn't the kneejerk reaction to something we haven't seen a little premature?
[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps. I await the actual movie before fomulating any carved in stone opinions. However, I find it difficult to even imagine a debate/documentary breaking from the theme of its trailer (and it's sensational naming) to suddenly present itself as even-handed.
So in conclusion, having never seen the actual feature, I can pass no judgement, but I am certainly skeptical.
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The trailer in itself is inflammatory and shows a disgustingly twisted one-sided view, and rather than presenting a possibly interesting debate with intelligent discourse, just shows a bunch of hate-propaganda. If I created a trailer that did the same thing about other subjects, for instance religion, it would probably be banned and deleted.
I know that video games aren't on the same level as religion, after all video games are real....
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I'm extremely disappointed that an image of Statesman would be used in such a way. I know that we designed City of Heroes to appeal to "children of all ages." My proudest accomplishment with the game is that many parents (including my brother) play with their children...sharing, I hope, the same joy for the comic book world that I've had ever since I was 8. I cannot express the shock that I felt seeing that a character created by Cryptic would be used in the same sentence as Columbine.
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It's called libel, and lawyers would probably love to represent Cryptic and yourself in that case.
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I'm pretty sure the libel only applies to real people.
*sigh*
Still no excuse for sloppy parenting.
Anyone that has or will commit a violence act do to their exposure to video games should be euthanized. The are obviously too broken mentally to live in reality.
Games don't kill people....morons do.
Dragon Wraith lvl 50 DM/Reg/DM Scrapper
Mud Lark lvl 50 SA/SS/EM Tanker
Galaxy Archon Athena lvl 50 Tri-Form PB
Miss Victory lvl 50 MA/inv/BM Scrapper
US Thunder lvl 50 Elec/Elec/Elec Blaster
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*sigh*
Still no excuse for sloppy parenting.
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Agreed... and I hope that this is covered within the movie... but we'll have to wait I guess.
An initial thought before I go through and read the whole thread.
We get the country we deserve. If you don't vote, don't write letters to your congressperson, and don't in general make your voice heard; these are the people who will control your world.
This is for anyone who is complaining and doesnt take the time to vote. There is a reason why this is a win/win political agenda and that is most gamers don't vote. Not really an exaggeration most of the gamers I talk to consider politics and voting a waste of time. The part I don't get is that the gaming industry should be a political powerhouse now. The money the industry makes and the many folks who game, spells raw political power. However, our political machine thinks that it's safe to trample on the industry precisely because gamers don't take an interest. Make your voice heard or the jerks you see in this video clip will make laws cheaply appealing to the voters who don't game. It's safe for the lawmakers because you won't vote them out of office.
My favourite quote about violence from a movie:
We grew up watching Leave it to Beaver and Father Knows Best and turned out to be the most violent drugged up generation ever
Not exact and dont recall which movie it came from now . . .
I read an excellent article on game violence on a gaming site linked to from this forum iirc.
It took data from an American government statistical source that in fact showed violence was going down! The journalist overlayed gaming moments in history, consoles coming out, certain violent games coming out. The whole graph showed a decrease in violent crimes per capita all the while games were becoming more popular.
He also pointed out something interesting. TV is losing to gaming. The game industry is causing Television stations and movie production companies to lose money. Is it any wonder you hear about violence in gaming on TV all the time. A clear case of the pot calling the kettle black, in this case the pot is in fact much worse in my opinion.
For every report stating violent games move people to violence there is another one saying the opposite, or that there is no indication either way. Then again reports generally say what people want it to say. The decrease in violence is a much better indicator. However the best sellers are sex and violence so you know that no matter how little violence there is you know it will be splattered all over the media.
I think for many games are a release for stress and aggression. Kinda like a punching bag.
Two words: Parental Responsibility
I played violent video games, I watched the NEWS which can be just as bad, I watched movies and TV shows with violence in them. I know better than to enact that violence on others because my parents instilled in me the value of other peoples lives. I don't need to blame any video game or tv show if I screw up. My parents taught me better than that.
I have played games since I was 6 starting with the atari 2600. I have moved from one platform to another as the industry evolved over the years. But through it all, when I did something that was bad or wrong, I was punish accordingly for my transgresions. Namely, a belt or a paddle on the backside. I was taught that I am responsible for my actions when I do something wrong, which helped me not to do the wrong things, since I knew there was a punishment for it that was far more severe than the crime.
Part of the problem is that parents dont want to admit that they are the reason thier kids are so "messed" up. So many parents beleive that they didn't do anything wrong. So, since it's not thier fault, it must be violent video games.
Speaking as a parent, I spend time with my children. When they do wrong, they are punished, but I always tell them why, and that I love them. They understand that when they do wrong, the must face the concequences of thier actions. If they do something, and I fail to stop it, it's becuase I failed them as a parent. I will gladly take the blame for my inaction.
So, instead of the right or left wingers going after the gaming industry, they should try going after the parents who failed thier children by not bringing them up right.
Every thought that occurs always starts as home.
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An initial thought before I go through and read the whole thread.
We get the country we deserve. If you don't vote, don't write letters to your congressperson, and don't in general make your voice heard; these are the people who will control your world.
This is for anyone who is complaining and doesnt take the time to vote. There is a reason why this is a win/win political agenda and that is most gamers don't vote. Not really an exaggeration most of the gamers I talk to consider politics and voting a waste of time. The part I don't get is that the gaming industry should be a political powerhouse now. The money the industry makes and the many folks who game, spells raw political power. However, our political machine thinks that it's safe to trample on the industry precisely because gamers don't take an interest. Make your voice heard or the jerks you see in this video clip will make laws cheaply appealing to the voters who don't game. It's safe for the lawmakers because you won't vote them out of office.
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QFT
No need to preach that the video was not accepted by this group, us being gamers, after all. We can also point fingers and blame the parents. Finger pointing is a popular game, too. There are, however, other things you can do, besides gnashing teeth, that might actually make a difference.
BTW, I voted, and will again.
I would say instead of "Rock the vote", we should say "Game the vote", but that has different connotations...
"Player First / Villain Second" - Dr_Hetero
"The real pros will never trumpet their experience. They'll lead by example." - Primal
I haven't read every post in this thread. So I don't know if anyone suggested this yet, but if not everyone that reads this should go to this link, sign up and use the resources they provide.
Video Game Voters.org
There are so many issues with this video. The uber conservative, religious views our country is trying it's hardest to adopt (especially since the Bush administration, or gestapo if you will) is truly putting our freedoms in danger. They claim it to be "family values", when in truth these family values are religious values. I have nothing against religion per se but I do not appreciate my gonvernment trying to shove it down my throat.
Some say if you have right to complain if you did not vote, in all actuality, this is totally untrue. Our current system of voting is extremly "bugged" (to use a term we all are familiar with). For example, I live in Indiana. During the presidential elections Indiana goes red (or republican) almost immediately, with no question and it has for quite some time. Did my vite count? No, not even close.
Then some say not to point fingers at parents. This is a huge cop out. I am a father of four (three of which are CoX players) and if my kids cannot differentiate between reality and the world of games, then I have fallen short in my job as a father. Parents these days too often blame everyone else for their childrens short comings. When it is the individuals short comings as a parent are truly to blame. Parents too often do not want to be parents, sadly they have children just to have children. To be part of the family of four with a dog and a white picket fence crowd, yet take no reponsibility for teaching their children imortant life lessons and values. Children these days are much different and grow up much faster than we did as children. They have exposure to things we never had exposure to (and I am only 35) and too many parents do not understand or even take note of this. It is important as a parent to educate yourself in the internet, your childrens culture, music and so on. Especially the internet, as it is something we did not have available to us as kids. Our kids literally have the world at their figertips via the web. Parents should not be afraid to supervise their kids, take note of their interest and try to understand them as humans and not as babies. So many parents are also afraid to tell their kids no and dicipline their kids when the actions warrent it. No, I am not saying beat your kids or anything even near that but kids do need dicipline in their lives. I see it all the time, parents afraid of thier own kids and wondering why. It is because the parents (and they are the only ones in a childs life to truly be able to teach this) never told the kid no or never punished the kid for bad behavor, so the kid feels they do not have to listen and they have no fear of consequence. Honestly, i could go on all day on this subject.
Back to the video. This video to show a game like CoH in it, simply shows the irresponsibilty of its creators. They apparently lack research and simply tossed CoH in with games that obviously contain adult content. Too many censors are guilty of this. It is the same in the adult industry, they group all adult content producers in with pedophiles when creating any new laws. i understand this is an extreme example but it is true and it is another aspect of our government forcing our freedoms in the gutter and trying to censor our lives. The sad thing is that if the adult industry loses the battle they are fighting, we all will lose because it will only be the beginning to a long line of censorship and loss of our freedom of speech. If our government can put the stops of the adult industry with the massive financial backing and power it has then there is not much to stop them. Please understand, i do not agree with everything the adult industry produces or even close to it but it is a harsh reality that the adult industry is fighting tooth and nail for our rights as free americans. It is the same in the game industry, as game producers are all lumped in to one nasty group for all intents and perposes by the censors and conservatives with no research into actual content of games produced by individual producers. The kind of blanket censorship is a huge problem.
OK, I will step down now as I could truly keep rambling for hours on this subject.
Take care all,
CJ
Again, to state *what* the film Moral Kombat 'says'... or what the film's viewpoint is at this point in time would be erroneous. You don't know... we can speculate based on a trailer on YouTube, but until the movie is actually viewed in it's entirety... well, we're guessing.
I speculate that the movie is about making the game industry into a scapegoat for one of the greatest ills facing communities: the failure of a duty of care one generation owes to another.
But I might be wrong in my guesswork!
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I'm extremely disappointed that an image of Statesman would be used in such a way. I know that we designed City of Heroes to appeal to "children of all ages." My proudest accomplishment with the game is that many parents (including my brother) play with their children...sharing, I hope, the same joy for the comic book world that I've had ever since I was 8. I cannot express the shock that I felt seeing that a character created by Cryptic would be used in the same sentence as Columbine.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's the bahoobers slider bar in costumes and the new "Lok at my crack" costumes...
Do the makers of the video remind you of the pundit yapping about vigilante violence in "The Dark Knight" by Framk Miller?
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I'm extremely disappointed that an image of Statesman would be used in such a way. I know that we designed City of Heroes to appeal to "children of all ages." My proudest accomplishment with the game is that many parents (including my brother) play with their children...sharing, I hope, the same joy for the comic book world that I've had ever since I was 8. I cannot express the shock that I felt seeing that a character created by Cryptic would be used in the same sentence as Columbine.
[/ QUOTE ]
The people who want to bad video games are the same group of people who are grumpy that they didn't manage to ban all comic books and movies. Looks like States came around just in time for "comics code version 2.0" 
PS. Apparently you can pass anything by scream, "It's for the children!" I can see it now, "Curfew is at 8PM, citizens will not be allowed out with proper passes, and remember to report to your local over magistrate for your regular screening and communications review and adjustment. Remember, it's for the Children."
People change, it's part of human nature for one generation to be different from the next. We are different from our parents as they are from theirs. Every generation thinks that theirs is they way it should be, change is something that people aren't comfortable with. They see how we live, how we like things and they don't understand it, they don't understand how we can live like this when their lives were so much better.
Chances are most will never understand, they will keep trying to mold us in their image, trying to make us just like them and will never understand why we say no.
If the good guy gets the girl, it's rated PG;
If the bad guy gets the girl, it's rated R;
And if everybody gets the girl, it's rated X
- Kirk Douglas
Ummm...
I have no idea what you just said Zulu! 
Not to put too fine a point on it, it's about them not understanding us.
If the good guy gets the girl, it's rated PG;
If the bad guy gets the girl, it's rated R;
And if everybody gets the girl, it's rated X
- Kirk Douglas
[ QUOTE ]
From what I've seen, it's gone like this.
ZOMG! Radio Plays will ruin our children! They'll try to act out what they hear! BAN IT! Think of the children!
and that didn't work. So
ZOMG! Comic Books will ruin our children! They'll try to act out what they read! BAN IT! Please think of the children!
THAT didn't work. So
ZOMG! MOVIES will ruin our children! They'll try to act out what they watch! BAN IT! Will you PLEASE think of the children!?
Again, it didn't work. So
ZOMG! Dungens & Dragons will ruin our children! They'll try to act out what the RP! BAN IT! Will you *PLEASE* think of the children already?!
Again, same reaction. (You seeing a pattern here?) So
ZOMG! Rock and Roll will ruin our children! They'll act out what they're hearing! THINK OF THE CHILDREN ALREADY!
Once again, Head On: applied directly to your forehead. So
ZOMG! Video Games will ruin our children! They'll act out what they do in the games! BAN IT! Why won't you think of the children?!
It ain't working, and I'm quite sure it won't work in the end. We still have comic books, rock and roll, radio plays (though those aren't as big as they used to), movies and all that.
Granted, when the government actually does get involved and tries to ban games, we all jump on their backs and make them remember that They work for Us and we can make sure They no longer do and we find someone Else to work for Us.
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Don't forget books...or the bible printed in English...
If someone hasn't done a cartoon featuring cavemen petitioning against cave paintings because they're bad for the children, someone really should.