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I'm extremely disappointed that an image of Statesman would be used in such a way. I know that we designed City of Heroes to appeal to "children of all ages." My proudest accomplishment with the game is that many parents (including my brother) play with their children...sharing, I hope, the same joy for the comic book world that I've had ever since I was 8. I cannot express the shock that I felt seeing that a character created by Cryptic would be used in the same sentence as Columbine.
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This one is the link your looking for you, States. They can go [censored] themselves. 
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
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I'm extremely disappointed that an image of Statesman would be used in such a way. I know that we designed City of Heroes to appeal to "children of all ages." My proudest accomplishment with the game is that many parents (including my brother) play with their children...sharing, I hope, the same joy for the comic book world that I've had ever since I was 8. I cannot express the shock that I felt seeing that a character created by Cryptic would be used in the same sentence as Columbine.
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This one is the link your looking for you, States. They can go [censored] themselves.
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Heck yeah!
My Lego Models http://www.flickr.com/photos/30369639@N07/ lemur lad: God you can't be that stupid... I'm on at the same time as you for once, and not 20 minutes into it you give me something worth petitioning?Lady-Dee: Hey my fat keeps me warm in the winter and shady in the summer.
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[ QUOTE ]
I'm extremely disappointed that an image of Statesman would be used in such a way. I know that we designed City of Heroes to appeal to "children of all ages." My proudest accomplishment with the game is that many parents (including my brother) play with their children...sharing, I hope, the same joy for the comic book world that I've had ever since I was 8. I cannot express the shock that I felt seeing that a character created by Cryptic would be used in the same sentence as Columbine.
[/ QUOTE ]
This one is the link your looking for you, States. They can go [censored] themselves.
[/ QUOTE ]
You summed it all up in 3 min. what I wanted to add, if your kids screw up it's not societies fault that they screwed up it's the parents who are too busy for their kids. Lesson to Lieberman and Clinton as well as Thompson, if my kid kicks your butt (literally) it's not rap or rock music that made him do it, it was me who didn't watch him or notice the signs he is angry over something that is my fault and I would take FULL responsibility for it cause I failed to show/teach him how to vent his frustrations or make it possible for him to talk to me let alone spend time with him to help him.
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Poster: Myrmydon
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[ QUOTE ]
Poster: Statesman
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I'm extremely disappointed that an image of Statesman would be used in such a way. I know that we designed City of Heroes to appeal to "children of all ages." My proudest accomplishment with the game is that many parents (including my brother) play with their children...sharing, I hope, the same joy for the comic book world that I've had ever since I was 8. I cannot express the shock that I felt seeing that a character created by Cryptic would be used in the same sentence as Columbine.
[/ QUOTE ]
.
This one is the link your looking for you, States. They can go [censored] themselves.
[/ QUOTE ]
Personally I don't think it is an attack on City of Heroes. We as gamers know how absurd it is. The average politicians pick 7 games they "Heard" is bad or popular and chain them all Together. "Look at scenes from GTA, Manhunt, and Tetris. You can see the violence and how it is making our children into killing machines." It would be the same thing as villifying Ms Pacman for having unprotected sex and having her little pac baby and exposing it to gang violence by having 4 ghosts come after the child.
Gamers: They are thinking W T and F
Non Gamers: "I saw a decapitation in man hunt!! Ban tetris its bad too!!" They don't even know what tetris is!!
Ignorence is the issue. Rather then take a stance against how ignorent people are about reality and consequences of violence they take the easy way and pick a scapegoat so they don't have to take responsibility for letting little Timmy have one of their 17 fire arms, 2 boxes of ammo and not telling the kid that shooting people is wrong.
Saying "You are a bad parent and should be locked in jail because you allowed Timmy to have the guns and bullets used to kill people and never taught him the basic human decency and values that killing is wrong.". is not going to get them any votes when yahoos like Hilary say "Video games are the reason kids kill people and need to be stopped".
1: I was a bad parent I had guns and ammo lying around. If I had of taught Timmy better people wouldn't have died. How could I have left my child down and the innocent children killed.
VS
2: How could I have let video games corrupt my child!! Ban Tetris and Manhunt so no child will go on a killing spree!!
My money is on 2. 
(Virtue/Champion) Neil Fracas: Inv/SS
(Virtue) Gideon Fontaine: MA/SR (Sc), Generic Hero 114: Ice/Cold, Marcus Tyler AR/En, Project F: Spines/DA (S)
(Champion) Jenna Sidal BS/SD, Generic Hero 114: En/En (Bl), Loganne Claws/WP (Sc)
that video-reply was actually worse than the thing it replied too... the moral-kombat thing was at least though-provoking.. (not to mention just provoking) the reply was just a mess of flamebait and good ol whine... goes good with cheese i hear... And as an old RP:er i am not to chocked... I have seen it all before.
Yeah. The reply? Horrendous.
Vitriolic words are to be used only when you finish your attack. Until then, let the other side go for the finishing blow when you're not even fazed yet.
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah. The reply? Horrendous.
Vitriolic words are to be used only when you finish your attack. Until then, let the other side go for the finishing blow when you're not even fazed yet.
[/ QUOTE ]
It was a perfect counter arguement, how can you think otherwise.
My Lego Models http://www.flickr.com/photos/30369639@N07/ lemur lad: God you can't be that stupid... I'm on at the same time as you for once, and not 20 minutes into it you give me something worth petitioning?Lady-Dee: Hey my fat keeps me warm in the winter and shady in the summer.
Of course, it could be worse....
While I have not read the entire 34 pages I want to add my two cents. Here goes, I hope that I do not offend anyone with my following statement. People have been passing the buck since Adam and Eve. Look Adam blamed God for his sin, because he said to God it is the woman that YOU GAVE TO ME gave me the fruit and I ate it. There will always be people that will pass the buck and say it was not my fault for what I did. I will never by into that. Of course you will have some people that are sick in the head with some mental disease and legitmately believe that it was a book, game, TV, magazine that made him do it.
I agree that the rest of the blame falls on parents. Part of the problem is that some of the children are grandchildren of Dr. Spock's generation.
Dr Spock was a child psychologist that said over 50 years ago do not spank your children because you maybe stunting the growth of a genius. Many decades later he recanted his first statement and said that we have a generation of brats. Not only did his generation of children wind up not learning any proper parental skills and show any real concern for their children the same happened to the generation after them.
Add to that when children are having children and they do not know how to raise them causes even more problems. Then add the fact that some children from good homes of parents that really do their best but the children just disobey. And the parents that do not care (whatever the reason is) let other things and people teach their children the lessons they should teach them. When their child does wrong they blame their pastor, teacher at school or something else other than themselves. What are we going to do let the government raise our children? I know that I would not if I had children. What are we going to do as a people let the government make rules where they make all of our decisions for us and our children? Is making those decisions way to hard for most? Sorry I will make my own decisions and would teach any children that I have to make their own decisions and teach them right from wrong.
I believe that censorship could get worst unless we as parents and individuals start taking responsibility for what we do. I agree that games and other media are in no way near real life. Do we have only two senses sight and sound. No in the real world we have five senses, but in a game world only two are used. I would rather see the government pass a law where if a person young or old claims that something made him do what he/she did that they would be tested by a psychologist to see if that is true. If they pass the test then immediate committed for any sentence that would be normally passed on the crime committed. If not they stand trial and cannot use that as a defense. Then one of us could do a study showing just how many people were trying to blame something else when they should've accepted the blame for their own actions. Sorry if it is a little long.
Ebony Fists: Level 50 DM/Regen Scrapper, Gloom Piston Robotics/Dark mastermind level 34, QueenFireMare: Level 34 Fire blaster (pure fire),
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Poster: Zloth
.
Of course, it could be worse....
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Wow...... There are truly no words that can describe idiocy on that level.
(Virtue/Champion) Neil Fracas: Inv/SS
(Virtue) Gideon Fontaine: MA/SR (Sc), Generic Hero 114: Ice/Cold, Marcus Tyler AR/En, Project F: Spines/DA (S)
(Champion) Jenna Sidal BS/SD, Generic Hero 114: En/En (Bl), Loganne Claws/WP (Sc)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Poster: Myrmydon
.
[ QUOTE ]
Poster: Statesman
.
I'm extremely disappointed that an image of Statesman would be used in such a way. I know that we designed City of Heroes to appeal to "children of all ages." My proudest accomplishment with the game is that many parents (including my brother) play with their children...sharing, I hope, the same joy for the comic book world that I've had ever since I was 8. I cannot express the shock that I felt seeing that a character created by Cryptic would be used in the same sentence as Columbine.
[/ QUOTE ]
.
This one is the link your looking for you, States. They can go [censored] themselves.
[/ QUOTE ]
Personally I don't think it is an attack on City of Heroes. We as gamers know how absurd it is. The average politicians pick 7 games they "Heard" is bad or popular and chain them all Together. "Look at scenes from GTA, Manhunt, and Tetris. You can see the violence and how it is making our children into killing machines." It would be the same thing as villifying Ms Pacman for having unprotected sex and having her little pac baby and exposing it to gang violence by having 4 ghosts come after the child.
Gamers: They are thinking W T and F
Non Gamers: "I saw a decapitation in man hunt!! Ban tetris its bad too!!" They don't even know what tetris is!!
Ignorence is the issue. Rather then take a stance against how ignorent people are about reality and consequences of violence they take the easy way and pick a scapegoat so they don't have to take responsibility for letting little Timmy have one of their 17 fire arms, 2 boxes of ammo and not telling the kid that shooting people is wrong.
Saying "You are a bad parent and should be locked in jail because you allowed Timmy to have the guns and bullets used to kill people and never taught him the basic human decency and values that killing is wrong.". is not going to get them any votes when yahoos like Hilary say "Video games are the reason kids kill people and need to be stopped".
1: I was a bad parent I had guns and ammo lying around. If I had of taught Timmy better people wouldn't have died. How could I have left my child down and the innocent children killed.
VS
2: How could I have let video games corrupt my child!! Ban Tetris and Manhunt so no child will go on a killing spree!!
My money is on 2.
[/ QUOTE ]
This game is so tame even the villians we heroes face say things like I am not going to jail, Didn't you bust me for purse snatching last week. All as anyone has to do is check out the games they list before listing some game along with others. It is an insult to list this game which has a teen rating, no blood and guts along with those that have an R rating with all the blood and guts you could think of. It is impossible to rid the world of violence by eliminating it in all forms of the media. People have to change and decide for themselves that they will not be violent. Also if there were no violence in the media and people were still violent, then they would have no one else or anything else to lay the blame on other than themselves. Do they really want to do that?
Ebony Fists: Level 50 DM/Regen Scrapper, Gloom Piston Robotics/Dark mastermind level 34, QueenFireMare: Level 34 Fire blaster (pure fire),
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Of course, it could be worse....
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And here I thought the Germans were further along in their social evolution than us. <big farkin sigh>
Be well, people of CoH.
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Watching the trailer and then just skimming the responses in the thread I'm going to narrow my comments.
I think the inclusion of a head shot of Statesman was nonsensical in the trailer. I would have to see a full program broadcast to make any further commentary on that inclusion.
As far as the whole 'Moral Kombat' issue, we humans are emotional beings, led to action or in-action by both inside self-morality and outside environmental pressure. By 'environmental pressure' I mean anything that directly or indirectly affects us, whether real or imagined.
If an individual's self morality is weak, then outside pressures more influence their behavior and thought processes. They accept those outward pressures as more accurate than inward ones. This can lead to both positive and negative behavior depending on where that outward influence comes from.
Can video games inspire people (not just children)? YES!
Are video games evil? No, but some can inspire acceptance of behavior which is against the popular morality of the day.
The measure of that effect is based on that inside moral strength of the individual. Some children are more impressionable than others, as are some adults.
In my opinion, peers with strong inward moral compasses are what help to keep the less strong individuals from unacceptable behavior. And if people do not have those kind of peers, then we see behaviors deviate to the extremes.
And this is a symptom of the modern era in which we live, where interpersonal communication with peers often comes with the caveat 'You can't tell me what's right or wrong'. In this age, morality is being less defined by religion and more by legal laws and statues which are broad based to allow for wide acceptance of differing backgrounds.
And as well, the accepted morals of the day are shaped by the media a person is exposed to in their life. Any media, read, heard, seen, etc. All goes into the equation of what influences us. We can become outraged or desensitized, moved to action or in-action. The problem we modern age citizens face is in the many forms of media we are bombared with from myriad sources, both based on reality and fantasy.
The US was founded on ideals that were broadcast by word of mouth, sung in songs, and written in pamphlets. Great orators have always held a power to influence people for good or evil. Now we face media in the form of games which come the minds of a few individuals.
Sure video games are 'just' games. Yet their influence upon those who play them exists at some level.
I personally don't like FPSes because their sole intent and purpose is about directly 'killing' other individuals and many popular FPSes relish being animatedly realistic in the brutality of the method of killing with the commesurate gore. Is that necessary? Nope, and you can turn off the blood in most of these games. Maybe this is one reason that CoX is more acceptable to me, it doesn't go after the blood and gore, but rather the defeat. I play characters who weild powers and weapons capable of great damage, yet I can avoid the brutality while savoring the defeat. And if my character is defeated he is still bodily intact and can instantly revive, so death in this universe is treated as a non-existent thing.
As a player of CoX I have to suspend any moral outrage at death and killing, and I willingly do this. Yet at some level it saddens me to think I derive some pleasure and distraction from real life through hurting others, albeit ficticious animated beings. Perhaps it is because our daily lives are filled with more mundane tasks that we seek outlets like this, or maybe because it is just one avenue of activity we can choose out of thousands.
Whatever the reason video games are popular, we must realize we have a duty to our peers and ourselves to recognize the level of effect they may have on us, and to put them in the proper perspective of being only 'games' and not allowing them to have a delitorious effect of any kind. And as kind friends, lets not be afraid of giving the word of caution to those who allow games to become their lives instead of just a facet of momentary distraction.
[/ QUOTE ]Giving a word of caution to friends who take it to seriously is a far cry from denying adults the opportunity to decide for them selves what they do and donot want to be exposed to.
I choose freedom over safety.
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Of course, it could be worse....
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And here I thought the Germans were further along in their social evolution than us. <big farkin sigh>
[/ QUOTE ]i remembered reading that in the old nintendo 64 game "turok: the dionosaur hunter" they changed the human barbarian enemies into robots. aussies have it bad too.
Sometimes, its just common sense. I've been playing violent games all my life and no one's ever tried to "teach" me against converting video violence to real life. It just came as obvious to me that the games are fake, I feel real pain like everyone else, if I try this on someone else, it's gonna hurt.
It just seemed kinda obvious.
Wow I'm completely shocked that out of all the games they could have chose, they decided to use CoH as a "violete game". This whole Jack Thompson thing is totally out of control, and he needs to focus his life on something actually worth his time. I'm sorry, but come on.
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Yeah. The reply? Horrendous.
Vitriolic words are to be used only when you finish your attack. Until then, let the other side go for the finishing blow when you're not even fazed yet.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was a perfect counter arguement, how can you think otherwise.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with the sentiment behind the reply, but it's not an effective rebuttal. People who might support censoring video games are unlikely to see it and even less likely to agree with it. If you want to bring down a politician, you have to attack him where he thinks he's safe, and that means directly attacking the voters the politician is trying to appeal to.
The real flaw in the movement to censor video games is that the distinction between games and other art forms is artificial. Any laws having to do with art apply equally to Tomb Raider: the Game and Tomb Raider: the Movie. They make games out of movies and books and make movies and books out of games. Games are only a better target politically because there is a sharper distinction between a game-player and a non-game-player than there is between a movie-goer and a non-movie-goer.
This creates a problem: if someone creates a questionable game from a work in another medium, the same laws that apply to the game will apply to its source material. Draw up a case for banning Left Behind and its sources, then stick a fork in the censors. They're done.
Ghostman,
I think a lot of these whackos are under the impression that these games cause that empathy to be destroyed.
The more we "kill" in game, the less we think of other humans as humans, and instead consider them targets that will respawn, so it's ok to go on that killing spree.
See how their brains work? Completely lacking any rational basis and they should all be sterilized, yes, but it is what it is.
All we can do is work hard to make sure that those kind of folks never get into power.
Unfortunately, a vast number of them already are.
Be well, people of CoH.
Gotta love it when people try to play up to people's emotional side to justify themselves.
CatMan - some form on every server
Always here, there, and there again.
[ QUOTE ]
Ghostman,
I think a lot of these whackos are under the impression that these games cause that empathy to be destroyed.
The more we "kill" in game, the less we think of other humans as humans, and instead consider them targets that will respawn, so it's ok to go on that killing spree.
See how their brains work? Completely lacking any rational basis and they should all be sterilized, yes, but it is what it is.
All we can do is work hard to make sure that those kind of folks never get into power.
Unfortunately, a vast number of them already are.
[/ QUOTE ]
You talk like my genius daddy who died defending us from the secret Cerulean invasion of '91 with nothing but a Winchester and a bottle of Whiskey.
Wait...
You are my daddy! That explains the devilish sexiness!
[ QUOTE ]
I think a lot of these whackos are under the impression that these games cause that empathy to be destroyed.
The more we "kill" in game, the less we think of other humans as humans, and instead consider them targets that will respawn, so it's ok to go on that killing spree.
See how their brains work? Completely lacking any rational basis and they should all be sterilized, yes, but it is what it is.
[/ QUOTE ]
What I've always found funniest about people promoting the "violence on TV causes violence in real life" argument is that it hinges on the idea that reality and virtual reality are interchangeable in people's minds. But the only people of whom this really seems to be true are the ones promoting the argument.
The same is true for the "Celebrities should be good role models" argument. Not many people other than the ones arguing that seem to see celebrities as role models at all.
On a side note there is talk in sweden right now to pass a law that give the school the right to transfer a bullying student to another school without his concent. Something that has been impossible before... Ironicly the idea was before to move the victim. Every now and then my contry actualy makes sense
And what happens then, after they ban all violent video games, when another school shooting takes place or another sniper shoots people in DC?
What is the excuse for non Video game playing generations?
I remember when there was controversy over Pen and Paper RPGs. Video Games are now the current 'evil' focus since they are so prevalent and parents are naturally concerned that their kids are playing to much. The emotionalism is just obnoxious since causes people to irrationally approach the problem: parental oversight. But that is another failing of the government - trying to be the surrogate mother.
CatMan - some form on every server
Always here, there, and there again.
All the discussion here is great, but mostly we're just preaching to the choir... If you want to do something to stop this kind of garbage, you need to take action. Write your congressman, join one of those video-game voters networks.. I don't know. But sitting here and complaining won't do us any good. We need to show them that we have a voice.
The trailer says that half of America plays video games. Why are 150 million people sitting on their [censored] while some no-nothing, knee-jerk reactionaries tell us how we should enjoy our hobbies?
They took license with reference to using the flight sims, as the media has reported on their training at the flight camps.
As far as CoX is concerned, the basis for inclusion in my opinion is based on what is popular in the day. Probably someone who was involved in the production plays or knows someone who does and so it was included. As far as it's overall 'effect' I would say it goes along the lines of being included in the many games who's central 'gain structure' is around perpertrating injury/death, albeit CoX is no where near the FPSes.
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I agree with some of what they are saying, but cox does not at all fit into their decriptions. I understand the little mike tv's playing gta and being rewarded to kill cops, but with the flight simulators, apparently they didn't remember that terrorists were and probably still are going to american flight schools.
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"It is that balance, the ground between EB and AV, where the PvP struggle should exist. Where a 1v1 becomes a struggle of equals, and 1vMany gives the benefit to the 1."
Freedom: Fireocity, Electro Imp, Gotya
Infinity: Meteor Storm, Mutai Kid, General Bot, Da Smasher