Hatman

Once again, NCNC does not give a [censored] about the East Coast.

Note from NCNC - [censored] the East Coast.

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Last time I checked, though, Blasters were at the rock bottom of performance, which is why they needed the Defiance changes. What happened to make them kings of the world that I missed? Surely it cannot have been the Defiance changes just by themselves. They weren't making my Blasters any more survivable than my Scrappers last time I checked.

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Survivability is in the eye of the beholder anyway. My Blaster survived VERY well without Defiance 2.0. I remember the Stalkers' defense being quite right in "Blasters need to learn to play." 'cause it applied to me.

My scrappers barely do any damage when compared to blasters, we're talking like... with the same buffs and everything, a good 200 damage less on an attack chain. Factor in that I rolled EM, so I have access to two excellent melee attacks in Bonesmasher and Total Focus...

Excuse for "damage is less" is that they can't be mezzed as easily. Which is true. It's still pretty sad to find out that, the undisputed "king" of melee damage Hero-side gets outdamaged by Blasters who pick EM.

Kinda understand why I feel gimped whenever I play my Scrappers now, and probably why I've pretty much given up on bothering to IO out my MA. Especially since I primarily play in teams, where a Tanker would take damage better than I would, and a Blaster outdamages me like hell.

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For the first, I have to wonder what you’re smoking. Scrappers have, historically, been gods in this game. They had the living hell nerfed out of them, in fact (although they’re still just about the most powerful AT’s in the game). No game nerfs “useless” things.

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You mean that AT that doesn't do half the damage of a Blaster, has heavily resisted damage types, has been nerfed well past the level of usefulness in team situations (Seriously, my Blaster scraps better than my Scrappers and has the best damage mitigation in killing the enemies before they kill me) where everyone will do what you do, except, y'know, better.

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Now Champions, time will tell. I'm just really really cautious with Champions because alot of what's being said sounds like what was said about CoH before launch too.

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The problem isn't what's being said but rather that nothing is really being said. Granted, they're still developing. They may have all the best intentions in the world, but unless that materializes, who will actually jump ship?

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I'm very interested to see where CoH/V ends up in 12 months time as NC^2 increases staff numbers but also competition from other MMOs increases.

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It'll depend on what comes out, and what are the options offered by other games.

They've got something solid here, but there are problems to be addressed, and if indeed, they aren't addressed, some people might want to leave the game behind and not come back. So long as this game offers something the other games do not offer, people will play it.

As far as "They always come back.", for me, that's the case for now. I've quit, played WoW, then returned when I missed the people I played with. For others? I dare not say. As of the moment, the only game that could lure me away is CO, and I'm cautiously optimistic about it - In the sense that they could easily [censored] it up. However, it being more action-ey than CoX piques my interest.

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The Dev's thoughts on melee in PVP:

"lol don't do that, silly"

haha, I keed I keed!

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Fixed.

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Ultimately, we shipped some very good work. There was definitely room for improvement -- things were not as polished as we'd have liked in many cases, for instance. Still, I'm proud of what we did, and know that the rest of the group feels the same. Anyway, thanks for your continued support! Here's hoping the next couple of years see even better things!

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Now that you're more, does that mean we can be even more critical? :P

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BAB was leading probably only one or two people in looking after animations (he'd need someone else to hold the camera while he swung his sword around - bow wow chicka chicka bow wow! ;-), SexyJay probably had costume design all to himself or as part of a small art team (two or three people).

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I've actually been the sole animator and FX artist since Issue 8. So glad to say that's no longer the case XD

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So who filmed you with the taped sticks? :P

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Tripod.

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Now I understand why you hesitate to show us said video. :P

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BAB was leading probably only one or two people in looking after animations (he'd need someone else to hold the camera while he swung his sword around - bow wow chicka chicka bow wow! ;-), SexyJay probably had costume design all to himself or as part of a small art team (two or three people).

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I've actually been the sole animator and FX artist since Issue 8. So glad to say that's no longer the case XD

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So who filmed you with the taped sticks? :P

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PvP and PvE just should not mix. I feel that trying to entice people to PvP with PvE rewards is just not the right way to go about it. People who PvP do so because they WANT to PvP. Making someone who doesn't want to PvP have to participate in it because there's PvE stuff to do will annoy them and also annoy the PvPers who are simply going by the conditions of a PvP area and defeating people they see. I was sure that a long time ago, a consensus on the boards was reached that said PvE rewards and content should -NEVER- in the future be mixed ever again because of all the current problems. No badges, no plaques, no story arcs, nothing. PvP is PvP. You battle your friends, or strangers or whatever, that's all it exists for. It's meant to be something different, not the same thing as something else repackaged.

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The problem then is that you alienate people like me who say : "I'd PvP if there was something in it for me."

Otherwise, I just get my PvP fix elsewhere.

Try again, kid[/Sagat]

This announcement reeks of "Tout va bien, madame la marquise"

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/e protest

For the Emporer's sake, don't you see?! Next thing you know they'll be nickel-and-diming us for everything! This is the kind of thing I thought I wouldn't have to worry about with NCsoft running the game...

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Uh... wut?

Please turn in your Grand Papillon mask as soon as possible - You have just crossed the line into Great Gama territory, and perhaps even Great Question territory.

Don't bother, Pax is against anything that would shake his precious status quo.

Sorry to say, but if it's not official, Memphis, nobody will care. You need a tutorial, in-game that explains various PvP strategies and conventions.

Problem is, that requires coding and work with the community, and it looks like it's either one or the other - not both.

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that learning curve is what keeps many pvp-ers around right now. pve = the easy part of the game.. pvp = oh god thank you now i can learn something / have some fun. pvp, at least villainside, is how the non-lazy non-brain-dead non-i-want-easy-mode-nao crowd entertains itself.

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Not exactly. From the little I've done in PvP, it has the same patterns as other games. So if you've played them... you know how to use said patterns. Nothing more to learn than how your toon works with other power combinations. Spiking? A quite logical aspect of a game that allows for easysauce healing. You either "one-shot" or he's full.

Most of the PvP "givens" are exactly that - Givens. Now, maybe if the developers went the VF4:EVO route, and introduced a tutorial to PvP that TAUGHT those givens and other PvP tactics, people would know exactly why they were farmed, and the general quality of the PvEvPer would be vastly improved. Restrict access to PvP before doing the tutorial, even. For most of the PvPers, it'll be a 2 minute thing that'll just be a speed bump. For most of the PvEers, it will be a goddamned learning experience that they desperately need to either properly enjoy PvP or succeed well at it against decently-formed teams.

Face it, the game is extremely easy : the PvE is extremely easy, the PvP is extremely easy as well provided you don't fight someone who's decided to become an expert in it. Ultimately, since it's a competition, you WILL end up fighting someone who's better than you are eventually... unlike the PvE game.

If I was convinced it would help, I probably would have. Except to whom do I address this? Posi? He's far too busy with other stuff to properly take the time and answer what could be a very insignificant question. Castle? Not his department. Same with BAB. Ultimately, I could bring this up to Lighthouse or Ex, but with the amounts of such threads they see, they probably don't know anything more than we do at this point.

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Didn't mean to ignore your post hatman, I am posting between loads while playing, and we were posting at the same time. Also as I recall some of the big ones from closed were moved, but may have been purged by now.

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Not you, specifically, but more the post like "/em claps" at the all villain players complaining are hypocrites.

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I can tell you that the rate of costume recipe drops went on for months before a red name chimed in.

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What? I just looked back at AmazingMOO's thread about that. He posted on 5/07/07. His title was clearly calling out to the devs, "Continued Dev Silence on Costume Drops?" He stated it had been a week since the inventions came in, Issue 9 released May 1, 07. And Positron posted the next day. The next day!

What months? You mean hours.

Oh, and the devs were called out to more than once in that thread, and they answered. Go figure.

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Yea, look back at the month + that the same threads ran in Closed beta, and got in to the hundreds of pages. May want to go look back bit further.

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Closed beta forums are... well, closed. We can't exactly look there.

Even then, costume drops are a both issue. They did reply, but only when they had a proper solution in the works. Does this mean they don't have one for CoV and they intend to let that side of the game linger?

EDIT: I also find it quite funny that insulting posts are applauded and non-insulting ones are generally ignored.

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I can tell you that the rate of costume recipe drops went on for months before a red name chimed in. This thread started bad, and I am sure that contributes some to the Devs not stopping by. I know when I am accused in such a manner my first response is [censored] you. A title like “Why do the Devs hate CoV” does not really foster communication.

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They don't have to post in this particular thread. Except there is no real way to say "Hey, look! That part of the game is extremely lacking!" without either seeming insulting or without someone who misreads the intent of the topic and starts a flame war. (And before someone says "THAT'S ALWAYS X SIDE!", no. Both "sides" are guilty of this.)

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I think what he means by content they both can enjoy are things like flash back, weapon customization, inventions, new powers, and co-op zones. I do think a little more could of gone into the RWZ to make it more neutral, or have different mission text/contacts.

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True, but even then, there's a problem with the team search in that it doesn't allow for searching of villains. There really is a physical barrier that really prevents co-op play in that zone (and every other co-op zone that gets introduced later on). More neutral content would have been great. More content in general, for both sides, would have been awesome.

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Part of the reason I see them as the same game is the shared world, and shared mechanics. They really are two sides of the same coin, and this is not a bad thing when done right.

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Except it hasn't been done right. The two sides of the same coin analogy is correct in this case. Only at fringe points do they interact, which is the case here. If there is a "physical" separation between the two sides, it does foster the mentality that it is two separate games. Either they make more interaction happen, or spruce up villain side so that they can at least have some extra stuff to do.

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If you look after i7 there was a good long time before there was anything added to the game, red or blue. Gaps like that have helped to cause hard feelings on both sides. I think if i8 (as is) had of hit as fast as i9, i10, and i11 did last year no one (no one reasonable any way) would have said a word, and I still think that is the case. I do hope the new staff will make things faster and better for both sides.

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Same here. More content = Always good. However, the new content just wasn't exactly what villain side needed. Ouroboros was a boon to people who badge a lot and missed a few key missions for accolades. Hero arcs are long, and you can easily end up not doing any of them due to the Hollows-Faultline-Striga-Croatoa-(gap)-RWZ line if you so wish. Villains, not having an alternate line, will likely end up doing all the content available to them at some point, in either one, or two, playthroughs... without hindering their XP gain with debt and all. This alternate line is missing for CoV. That's withstanding the fact that Grandville has legit issues and was pretty much a lie all along (The only thing vertical about it is Recluse's tower, and it's not even really used) and that Sharkhead still implodes, taking everybody within it, on occasion.

So yeah, these are a few reasons why people who do play red-side or would love to play it more wants for the developers to take a severe look at that expansion. Either amputate it or cure it, I say.

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It was billed, and sold as, an independent game. But the devs now have come out and said it's not, it won't be treated as such.

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That is a very good point.

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Except they can't undo what was already done - The game was sold as a standalone that was also an expansion. Hell, at this point, I'd take a paid expansion to CoV in order to bring the content up to Hero level (and even then, I think Heroes lack content sometimes!)

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That people managed to delude themselves and apparently still delude themselves into thinking of it as a seperate thing is well ... just sad.

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You don't know people well, do you?

It's not because it's separate - Hell, it technically is considering that other than PvP/Co-op zones, Heroes and Villains never interact. Ever. Not even the markets. In fact, a player could play and never meet anyone from the other side. They're not different games and shouldn't be expected to be.

All I'm asking for here is a confirmation that Villains will get some sort of attention or if we're wasting our time. I don't care if it's in the form of an announcement, redname post, or whatever. At least people could actually know what's going on other than : "It was meant to be an expansion, really!" two years after the fact.

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I think being vocal about what players want for CoV is a very important thing. It lets the Devs know where they ought to be focusing their efforts. For example, read this post from Ex Libris regarding the wishes of the PVP community. People who are vocal about CoV should be taking notes there about how to communicate with the Devs. Be persistent, be realistic, avoid bias or malice, etc.

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You mean the post where she goes : "Get more people to PvP and devs will look at the issues." and everyone brought forward a very valid point that people who have tried PvP had three reactions:

1) Got ganked, never came back/Never wanted any in the first place.
2) Tried it, won't come back until extreme balance changes are made/Something is added to PvP
3) Is PvPing regularly.

So, yeah. Their voices were sure heard there! All Ex is saying (and CAN say, I'm not asking her to outright lie) is that if more people PvP, the issues will get fixed in a case where Field of Dreams is a better reference (If you build it, they will come. Rather, fix it, to be frank.)

Needless to say, if that's what it takes for Villain issues to get fixed, anyone who plays Villains only might as well stop paying for the game. When a particular side has only half a game available, it's to be expected that they only have half the numbers of the completed side.

Castle is currently working on Stalker issues, but that's only one person. I don't see the other developers (mostly because they don't post on the boards for the most part) working on anything that could be considered Villain-only content. Even with the expanded development team, it'll take a severe change in the philosophy of the developing team in order for CoV to get the attention it actually needs. 50/50 content is nice for both sides, but it's only maintenance for both sides. The thing is, one side is happy because they have no true issues to address except the odd powerset/kink here and there - CoH does not really need a huge change except sprucing up the Hazard Zones, fixing a few things here and there, and some QoL changes that would benefit both sides. The other side is unhappy because their issues aren't being addressed in a timely manner, and the more time passes by, the less they believe the issues will get fixed, and content be added for them so they have more things to do than doing previously existing content (which, on the CoV side, was all fun and dandy when it came out... 4-5 issues ago. The actual mission texts haven't aged well - I didn't expect them to, but I've developed an aversion to most CoV contacts. It's that bad.) or a co-op zone (which was fun... until you realized that only Heroes were in the zone, really, or that you can't even look for Heroes unless doing a /whoall or a broadcast advertisement for your teaming availability - That, however, is a problem on both sides.)

I can understand the developers hating CoV at times - It's players are extremely stubborn and have a tendency to hijack perfectly legit threads to voice their concerns. The fact that CoH only players do not exhibit such behavior isn't a testament to which side they play or their moral character, but more than there actually - I might be wrong here, but I'll advance my theory anyway - may be something wrong with CoV. From what I've seen, CoV is lacking, it has always been lacking (except maybe around the time of Issue 7), and unless the developers bother with filling it up, it will always be lacking.

And I, for one, like my games to be complete.

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The way I see it is the troll who started the thread is no longer responding in it. We all agree that the devs do not hate CoV, and we ALL agree that CoV needs a little extra love each issue. I think this point it would be best to start (or have a mod start) a consolidated thread in the suggestions form, to outline some things that will make CoV better.

Right now this thread is going back to reasonable people arguing over small things.

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The problem is... it's been needing it a while, a freaking GOOD while, and has never gotten it. Why would they bother with it now? I don't even see any improvements happening at least until I13, and that's a long way to go. Other than the different ATs, I don't see why anyone would bother with CoV as it stands now provided they have access to both games and aren't morally opposed to playing a Hero.

Hence why a ton of people are [censored]. They're trying to get attention, and while it hasn't worked before, staying silent won't, either. And, y'know what, I'll [censored] until we get confirmation that Villains will get issues (such as Grandville. Yes, the whole zone.) fixed and a heap of extra content that should have been in from the start seeing as they sold it as a supposedly complete game.