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STOP SAYING "SUE"!
While one can initiate a civil suit on any grounds, whether valid or spurious, it is much more difficult to win a suit.
THERE ARE NO GROUNDS FOR WINNING A SUIT HERE.
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Wait now... Couldn't Cryptic(or any one of these video game company featured in the decumentery) sue whoever it is who put the clips together? I mean, in a way, they're misportraying a copywritten character? 
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I'm no lawyer, but I hope so.
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3 words: Defamation of Character
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I hope you posted this as proof that a suit in this case is unwinnable:
1. How could Cryptic prove damages?
2. How could Cryptic prove the opinion that video games is not influential of promoting violence (I mean, 'proof' prove)? It's difficult to prove the positive or the negative of that statement conclusively. And with all that doubt... no successful suit.
3. What actual statement was being made about Statesman which would be the object of the suit?
4. The use of the Statesman image falls under fair use. No one is attempting to use the Statesman image for commercial trade. A short clip does not violate trademark or copyright law. If you produced a video of how super heroes in comic books promote good social values, you could show a brief clip of Superman and DC couldn't win a suit against you (they can sue, but they'd lose).
So... let's all drop the "sue 'em" bandwagon. We hear lots about these types of suits, what we don't here is how they wind up... mostly dismissed or lost.
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Perhaps Slander or Libel would be better suited for this sort of thing.
And of course proving damages is the hard part to do. IANAL, IANYL, IANC'sL, and INSIWAL (I never said I was a lawyer). But if there's precedent, and/ or they can prove damages or otherwise prove that a video like this can unduly harm reputation, it can be an option. Hollywood actors have sued tabloids (and won) for similar reasons (unauthorized images in magazines depicting them unfavorably).
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Yes, they sued. And they lost. You can't win on 'unauthorized pictures' if you're a celebrity. You can't win on 'unfavorableness' if it's true. The only times celebrities have won (which is rare) is when a tabloid printed an out-and-out lie.
You don't know what you're talking about. I mean, did you even read the link you quoted?
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And whether you agree or disagree with litigation as an option is your opinion. I'm just playing devil's advocate YMMV.
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An informed opinion based on legal fact v. an uninformed opinion based on wrong information. Devil's advocate is advantageous only if you make cogent arguments.
And purposeless litigation is a plague upon American culture. We all lambasted Marvel for their baseless suit against Cryptic, and you're saying a little baseless litigation is now OK?
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
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Server02a 1up pph: "Moral Kombat" edbc: "There is no IMBD entry for the movie, and the official website is no longer active. The only other information is an Apple.com article on the project from 2005, which mainly focuses on the production, and not the content of the documentary. The article also states that the documentary was supposed to be released in the Summer/Fall of 2005. The movie is not available for purchase on Amazon.com, nor is it listed for sale on other online movie retailers."
Conclusion? A failed-production that fell on deaf-ears while trapped in eternal search of a Distributor. Haha!
[/ QUOTE ] The quoted entry and having Statesman post in my thread has made my day!
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Word.
The thing is, we have nothing to fear from anti-game people in the end. They are generally not rational enough to actually make any difference. Anything they do attempt (like this) gets put down by people with clearer heads.
Believe me people, there is no need to worry. If this is the best they can do, I almost feel sorry for them.
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I'm extremely disappointed that an image of Statesman would be used in such a way. I know that we designed City of Heroes to appeal to "children of all ages." My proudest accomplishment with the game is that many parents (including my brother) play with their children...sharing, I hope, the same joy for the comic book world that I've had ever since I was 8. I cannot express the shock that I felt seeing that a character created by Cryptic would be used in the same sentence as Columbine.
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This trailer definately gives the impression that the film is a scare tactic and propagates the idea that comptuer/video games are bad. Period.
Being that the first step of the practice of healthy moral judgement is the effort, first and foremost, to understand, the fact that they have so clearly skewed the issue with half-formed opinions and twisted information is terpitude of the highest order.
I'll be seeing this movie. I will rent it and watch it so that anytime someone points to it like I banner I can educate them appropriately.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
IMHO, i think the people who made that video only put Statesman in there because their Inv/SS Tank got nerfed....
Other than that, absolutely unbelivable that CoX was in that video.....and on a funny note? Some of us that are police officers play GTA....and we tend to know its not the video games that make kids shoot at us, but censoring videogames is a lot easier than getting a 17 yr old off crack, so which do you think theyre gonna try to get done? Yep, the ol' censor it game
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I'm extremely disappointed that an image of Statesman would be used in such a way. I know that we designed City of Heroes to appeal to "children of all ages." My proudest accomplishment with the game is that many parents (including my brother) play with their children...sharing, I hope, the same joy for the comic book world that I've had ever since I was 8. I cannot express the shock that I felt seeing that a character created by Cryptic would be used in the same sentence as Columbine.
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/signed. While a potential problem does exist (with some other games), there were so many logical gaps, inconsistancies and outright untruths in that video I am appalled.
Someone make a 'Fatality' joke.
I think my favorite, and coincidentally the most ludicrous line in the narration is this:
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We are what we pretend to be
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I guess I'll fly over to the supermarket tomorrow and teleport my friends there so they don't have to run themselves ...
Although ... after the video I was presented a link to this:
Satan's Video Game All-Stars
which all together seems to be a better production. After all, where else can you see a teenager in Bermuda shorts play air guitar to music from The Omen?
I'm personally sick of seeing us gamers made out to be scapegoats for every shooting and tragedy. On anothe note I love the response video someone made to it on youtube.
Link?
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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I'm extremely disappointed that an image of Statesman would be used in such a way. I know that we designed City of Heroes to appeal to "children of all ages." My proudest accomplishment with the game is that many parents (including my brother) play with their children...sharing, I hope, the same joy for the comic book world that I've had ever since I was 8. I cannot express the shock that I felt seeing that a character created by Cryptic would be used in the same sentence as Columbine.
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But of couse, States...neocons and theocons are like that.
"We are what we pretend to be, therefore, we need to be careful what we pretend to be" - An opinion asserted as fact and then a moral position based on the opinion asserted as fact. What a complete load of crap.
That sounds just like "Dad's against D&D" to me. Same people, just back in 1988. Notice only 25% of America supports George Bush now. Guess What? THAT IS THESE VERY FOLKS RIGHT HERE pounding out this drivel.
Showing Joe "Self-Censore yourself...OR WE WILL" Lieberman means instant discredibility in my book. Or in other words, "Do what we think is right or we will make you do what we think is right" Lieberman is evil and capricious and has no integrity. He's just as dishonest as Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.
It's all about the domination politics. Undermine free will and people will stop standing up for themselves. If they stop standing up for themselves...then no one complains about warrantless wiretapping, lack of habeus corpus, signing statements, torture, using Jesus to justify bigotry and hatred against gays, minorities, women, and anyone that doesn't fit in "the plantation" plan.
It's also the reason all the Gingrichian neocon republicans got their butts tossed out of power in Congress in November of 2006. To use Stateman's iconic image as a tool for neocon oppression is downright dishonest and disengenuos.
It's also the same argument that "Adult Videos increase assaults on the opposite sex..." garbage argument. The video had no facts only assertions and vague inuendos and all flash and no substance. But that is what rightwingers do, they have no argument, all they have is whining and harping: they are harpies and ghouls. Reaganites don't buy this crap...morons do.
I reject the entire argument and the entire video and EVERY LAST ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT STAND BEHIND THIS KINDA DISHONEST MEDIA. I'm not buying and the neocons can shove it up their aperature.
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Ummm... Doom?
As a Conservative, a Constitutionalist, and an Originalist, I fully respect your right to have any opinion you like and your right to express that opinion, as well as your rights to play any video game, raise your kids as you see fit, hate any politician you want, etc.
As a human being I'd ask you to take some time and have a conversation (not a shouting match) with someone who possesses different opinions from yours. Your little rant against the "right" reminds me of my brother who never reads/watches/listens to anything except opinions from the "left".
Try talking to someone with a different opinion before you group everyone who disagrees with you together. This ofcourse is meerly a suggestion. Do what you want.
Oh, back on topic. Ummm... video games are cool
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Reactor, don't drag your politics into this. Joe's a lefty, not a "neocon." Nor is Hillary Clinton or Tipper Gore a bunch of Bush-supporters.
I'm not saying the right's hands are clean (the "theocons" as you put it, are quite the type to support this), but the left "Morther Government knows best!" types tear after video games just as hard.
Be pissed off at the neocons and those elements in the right for what they do that you don't like. Don't ascribe everything you hate to them.
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Well said but I'd add "Don't ascribe everything you hate to any other single group."
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But of couse, States...neocons and theocons are like that.
"We are what we pretend to be, therefore, we need to be careful what we pretend to be" - An opinion asserted as fact and then a moral position based on the opinion asserted as fact. What a complete load of crap.
That sounds just like "Dad's against D&D" to me. Same people, just back in 1988. Notice only 25% of America supports George Bush now. Guess What? THAT IS THESE VERY FOLKS RIGHT HERE pounding out this drivel.
Showing Joe "Self-Censore yourself...OR WE WILL" Lieberman means instant discredibility in my book. Or in other words, "Do what we think is right or we will make you do what we think is right" Lieberman is evil and capricious and has no integrity. He's just as dishonest as Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.
It's all about the domination politics. Undermine free will and people will stop standing up for themselves. If they stop standing up for themselves...then no one complains about warrantless wiretapping, lack of habeus corpus, signing statements, torture, using Jesus to justify bigotry and hatred against gays, minorities, women, and anyone that doesn't fit in "the plantation" plan.
It's also the reason all the Gingrichian neocon republicans got their butts tossed out of power in Congress in November of 2006. To use Stateman's iconic image as a tool for neocon oppression is downright dishonest and disengenuos.
It's also the same argument that "Adult Videos increase assaults on the opposite sex..." garbage argument. The video had no facts only assertions and vague inuendos and all flash and no substance. But that is what rightwingers do, they have no argument, all they have is whining and harping: they are harpies and ghouls. Reaganites don't buy this crap...morons do.
I reject the entire argument and the entire video and EVERY LAST ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT STAND BEHIND THIS KINDA DISHONEST MEDIA. I'm not buying and the neocons can shove it up their aperature.
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Good Lord..
Are you a plant for the vast right wing conspiracy/Neo Cons/Christian Oppressors posting here to supress free speech by getting the thread locked?
...I mean, wow. Just.. wow.
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"I know that there's no vast right-wing conspiracy, because if there was I'd be part of it."
Anybody?... Anybody?
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So stop being disappointed and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. You won't allow the radical Christians/conservatives etc. to sander your creation without responding with your own comments on how flawed their logic is, will you?
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I should point out, if someone has not already, that the man in the video is a liberal democrat and is Jewish. Do not bash religions or political affiliations as you can find nuts on either side of the fence.
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Not only can you find them, you do find them. A lot unfortunately.
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I'm extremely disappointed that an image of Statesman would be used in such a way. I know that we designed City of Heroes to appeal to "children of all ages." My proudest accomplishment with the game is that many parents (including my brother) play with their children...sharing, I hope, the same joy for the comic book world that I've had ever since I was 8. I cannot express the shock that I felt seeing that a character created by Cryptic would be used in the same sentence as Columbine.
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This trailer definately gives the impression that the film is a scare tactic and propagates the idea that comptuer/video games are bad. Period.
Being that the first step of the practice of healthy moral judgement is the effort, first and foremost, to understand, the fact that they have so clearly skewed the issue with half-formed opinions and twisted information is terpitude of the highest order.
I'll be seeing this movie. I will rent it and watch it so that anytime someone points to it like I banner I can educate them appropriately.
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I don't think any of us will be seeing this movie. No distribution that I can find. The thing seems to be dead in the water.
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"I know that there's no vast right-wing conspiracy, because if there was I'd be part of it."
Anybody?... Anybody?
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Haha. I like that quote a lot, but I've no idea where it's from. I may have to start saying that, though.. Sounds like a good lefty/righty flame defuser.
The Paladin
Steel Canyon, Virtue
Exalted
@Paladin
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Well I am going to put in my two cents and hope I don't get flamed too badly. First of all I will say outright that I am a conservative at heart. I believe that there is right and wrong. I believe that children have to be taught that there are absolutes that shouldn't be crossed. That is why I and my children love this game. Because the lines aren't grey here. They are clear. And the violence that happens in this game also has a purpose. It isn't like those games that glorify killing police officers. Not like Scarface and other games.
If you want to find something to blame Columbine on, how about not teaching children that there is right and wrong. That killing is bad. That you should have an internal governor that keeps you from doing things like that.
I identified with the kids who committed the Columbine crimes in the fact that I was picked on and bullied in school and was treated like dirt by kids who thought they were better than me. If I hadn't grown up in a home that taught me right from wrong in absolute terms (not today's your truth is your truth and my truth is my truth moral relativism) I might have done what they did. I know there were times I felt that upset about how I was treated.
What I am trying to say is these people are pointing there fingers in the wrong direction. It isn't the TV shows and the games. It's the foundation of the people effected by them. Otherwise all people who play the really terrible games would be homicidal maniacs.
These folks want a scapegoat for bad parenting and no foundations for a lot of young people. COX is not it. Even the rest of the games aren't the real problem.
That's my view on it.
DarkEqualizer
[/ QUOTE ]You have a right to teach YOUR children whatever you like. All parents do. But you, do not have a right to dictate to me what I teach mine. You morals are not everyones. Personaly I don't think killing is wrong. There are lots of instances I can think of where people desrve to die.
There are in fact no absolutes everythin is in shades of grey. Teaching people to think in absolutes is what is causing this problem in the first place.
As a people we must lear to accept that not everyone views things as we do, and that its OK. We don't have to force our way of looking at things down other peoples throats no matter how right we think we are.
If I am given a choice between safety and freedom, I choose freedom.
Just saw the trailer - God is that thing maddening.
"Half of America plays video games." Yeah, sports games, Tetris, the Sims, Civilization, Mario, real violent stuff.
"There's always been violence in our society, but we've always recognized it as a vice." What a complete load - from Gladiators to the NFL, to every war ever fought, society has just as often rewarded violence.
And video games are rated! It's right there on the box - rated just like a film.
"What happens when a nine-year old plays a first-person-shooter?" Nothing! I've been a fan of violent media my entire life - and I am not a violent or agressive person at all.
And if some horrific event does occur, it will be because the nine-year-old's daddy owns handguns, and not because he played Half-Life 2. That's right America - go after the fake guns, and keep the freakin' real ones.
QR: Those of you who know me, know that I never curse, and that I try to always take an objective look at all sides of a situation before opening my mouth, or I just walk away from a thread.
That video...those people are [censored].
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
There's a high chance that the images put into that trailer were random images/video's randomly downloaded, and goggled and put into a trailer. Not only of Statesman, but of others.
The opening statement in that video. "Whoever tells the stories defines the culture." That man really needs to reaccess his life view, it's possible he's been reading Peter Pan too much.
I'm guessing by Statesman's post they didn't receive Permission to reproduce the Statesman image or video.
There are ratings on the CoH/CoV boxes. They are rated Teen. It becomes a responsibility and takes the involvement of PARENTS to be aware what is going on in their children's lives.
I do not think that the CoX environment is graphically violent at all. I let my daughter play on my account sometimes, she knows the difference between Real Life as opposed to A Game.
A video game / mmorpg does not cause the type of mental or spiritual illness that would make another person go out and harm another person.
http://tiny.cc/ArcaneDefenseItems
This is a bug, nothing more. Please put away the tin-foil hats, there's nothing sinister going on here.-Protea
http://tiny.cc/WhatBeatsADragon
Considering they put a Myst game in the trailer, which has no violence whatsoever, they obviously never played any of those games, just grabbed a bunch of game trailers and shoved a bunch of clips together.
You know why they didn't show a graphically violent scene involving Statsman? That's right, because there are no graphically violent scenes involving Statesman.
It never ceases to amaze me just how deceptive our "moral saviors" can be. But it also never ceases to amaze me how well reason and thought can kick their tails. I'm glad to see that critical thinking is a skill common to most of people posting responses to this "documentary".
However, I expect to see this film praised on Fox News any day now.
It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-- Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World
Um. When did Fox news go Liberal?
Just a general note on the thread here:
I've noticed a few people arguing about whether the tendency to promote censorship is more prominent in "left-wing" or "right-wing" platforms. I would argue that using "left" and "right" in any political argument invalidates everything you say. For the most part they are both smears and both mean "poopyhead". At best they are a lazy shorthand for a large number of political positions that are not linked to each other except that we are in the habit of thinking that they are. What I mean is that it is a big mistake to treat people as being on opposite sides of the political fence when they tend to agree on how government power ought to be used. A close look at most political systems will show that "left" and "right" convey no useful information whatsoever.
It also bugs me when I see "liberal" and "conservative" treated as polar opposites. This is only true when a country has traditionally been somewhat restrictive in behaviour and virtually any change has to involve loosening things up. If a country has a tradition of liberal values (i.e. allowing people to live with minimal interference from governments or other organizations) then it is both liberal and conservative to attempt to keep it that way.
Sorry for ranting, but it's extremely common for someone with an axe to grind (like Jack Thompson) to try to legitimize his arguments by delegitimizing all of his opponents'. His job is made easier people try to make common political terms into insults for the purpose of political campaigning. What I mean is that if a word like "liberal" is used as a shorthand for an entire segment of the writing population, then that segment can be casually dismissed from consideration once you begin to feel you will know what their opinions are before reading them. This is perfect for someone promoting an opinion based on questionable logic.
The only real defense against this is to reserve political terms for ideas rather than apply them to people. I have progessive opinions and conservative opinions, but I like to think my attitudes depend on whether change is a good idea. In my opinion, it is liberal to oppose censorship (or to put it another way, censorship is anti-liberal), but I don't see that as a good argument either way. Simply put, if censoring video games is a good idea, we should do it. Unfortunately, I don't think its supporters have ever proven their case, and in fact tend to hurt their own cause by using very fuzzy logic. Until that changes I'll have to prefer keeping things as they are.
ban bad parents.
Well I am going to put in my two cents and hope I don't get flamed too badly. First of all I will say outright that I am a conservative at heart. I believe that there is right and wrong. I believe that children have to be taught that there are absolutes that shouldn't be crossed. That is why I and my children love this game. Because the lines aren't grey here. They are clear. And the violence that happens in this game also has a purpose. It isn't like those games that glorify killing police officers. Not like Scarface and other games.
If you want to find something to blame Columbine on, how about not teaching children that there is right and wrong. That killing is bad. That you should have an internal governor that keeps you from doing things like that.
I identified with the kids who committed the Columbine crimes in the fact that I was picked on and bullied in school and was treated like dirt by kids who thought they were better than me. If I hadn't grown up in a home that taught me right from wrong in absolute terms (not today's your truth is your truth and my truth is my truth moral relativism) I might have done what they did. I know there were times I felt that upset about how I was treated.
What I am trying to say is these people are pointing there fingers in the wrong direction. It isn't the TV shows and the games. It's the foundation of the people effected by them. Otherwise all people who play the really terrible games would be homicidal maniacs.
These folks want a scapegoat for bad parenting and no foundations for a lot of young people. COX is not it. Even the rest of the games aren't the real problem.
That's my view on it.
DarkEqualizer