Server02a 1up pph: "Moral Kombat" edbc: "There is no IMBD entry for the movie, and the official website is no longer active. The only other information is an Apple.com article on the project from 2005, which mainly focuses on the production, and not the content of the documentary. The article also states that the documentary was supposed to be released in the Summer/Fall of 2005. The movie is not available for purchase on Amazon.com, nor is it listed for sale on other online movie retailers."
Conclusion? A failed-production that fell on deaf-ears while trapped in eternal search of a Distributor. Haha!
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I'm extremely disappointed that an image of Statesman would be used in such a way. I know that we designed City of Heroes to appeal to "children of all ages." My proudest accomplishment with the game is that many parents (including my brother) play with their children...sharing, I hope, the same joy for the comic book world that I've had ever since I was 8. I cannot express the shock that I felt seeing that a character created by Cryptic would be used in the same sentence as Columbine.
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Wouldnt Cryptic be able to Sue for using that pic of states like that? Seems that they would have to get permission to use that...
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It's portrayed as a documentary - the "educational" factor might get around it via Fair Use.
Must say, in the light of that trailer though, that trailer is downright slanderous to the game. NCSoft should definably be shown this and asked to act.
(PS - "NCSoft" was highlighted by Firefox 2's spellchecker and the suggested correction was UniSoft...)
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Statesman,
Please sue them. I beg you.
Venka
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Heh. what we should do is put together a trailer vilifying congress. Maybe pick a few scenes that don't make sense among all the scenes that might be in theme. Congress raises taxes, congress starts wars, congress has sex.
To bad we don't have tax dollars to distribute it.
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And don't forget, it's all the fault of a certain act of fellatio.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Joe Lieberman's quote in that is particularly ridiculous in the context that they presented it in. The game industry responded to his ultimatum by creating a ratings system. One that is, in my mind, just as good as those used by the Film and Television industries.
However, I do have to point out that Lieberman has said, many times, that the Game Industry impressed him with their response and the ratings system. They're taking him as much out of context as they are the video games themselves.
[/ QUOTE ]unfortunatly this is a fault of the gaming communtiy as well, people are so hung up on the fact that he Joe Leiberman dared say that violent video games need some form of self regulation that they paint him as some game banning freak. truth is, there has been no legeslation affecting games that has stood up to constitutional review, its a political talking point that you can carry to soccer moms who dont understand gaming so some oppertunists try to pass laws against violent games, but you will never see any law because you cant constitutionaly have one. Sadly to our aussie brothers, it seems you get games banned often for violent content, though in the case of postal 2, you probably came out the winner.
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That trailer was so ridiculous, I didn't even get angry.
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I'm just going to skip everything to chime in and agree that this trailer is such complete [censored] that it's not even funny.
Fact check:
Humanity has NOT always seen violence as a "vice." We don't even see it as a vice now. Look at our myths: Loaded with violence. Do you think Hercules TALKED the Nemean Lion out of his skin? Look at the bible: Maybe Samson used that jawbone to make soup? Look at our history: some of our greatest presidents began as war heroes or defined themselves as war presidents. Look at our modern story-telling: movies, comics, television shows are rife with confrontation and violence.
This is just pacifist nonsense. Humans fight. They struggle with adversity, they slog it out despite pain, suffering and intimidation, and they take down the bad guy. This is not something, inherently, to condemn. You only condemn violence when it is used inproperly.
Or do you think our soldiers are bad people? Didn' think so.
Furthermore: the Al Queda terrorists did NOT sit down with a flight simulator and learn to crash the towers. They went to flight schools to do that. Honest-to-god flight schools. Those may have used flight simulators, but those aren't teh sort of things you can go down to Wal-Mart and pick up for your computer. They require a heckuva lot more than a mouse.
The trailer is just nonsense.
But frankly, I'm not worried about it. Like they say: Half of America plays video games. That's a big, honking voting half. Gamers aren't children. Most gamers are teen to twenties young men. Furthermore, there are plenty of non-gamers that decry this sort of blatant censorship on both sides of the aisle: liberterians on the righty side and UCLA-civil righters on the left side (to be fair, the censor people come from both sides of the aisle too).
So I think it'll be ok.
But yeah, why the heck was Statesman in there? But then, alot of those video game characters were just PRETTY looking, and at least a few "violent" scenes weren't violent at all, just unusual and strange (like the guy being empowerd by that purple lightning)
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Server02a 1up pph: "Moral Kombat" edbc: "There is no IMBD entry for the movie, and the official website is no longer active. The only other information is an Apple.com article on the project from 2005, which mainly focuses on the production, and not the content of the documentary. The article also states that the documentary was supposed to be released in the Summer/Fall of 2005. The movie is not available for purchase on Amazon.com, nor is it listed for sale on other online movie retailers."
Conclusion? A failed-production that fell on deaf-ears while trapped in eternal search of a Distributor. Haha!
[/ QUOTE ] The quoted entry and having Statesman post in my thread has made my day!
The key though is - Liebermann is a moron on so many other things >.> the gaming angle is merely an additional reason to despise him.
Generally speaking though - the "political talking point" thing doesn't hold water with me. Yeah, so what if they could never ever make the law stick? It doesn't change that they're just making young people (in particular) look bad to older people who don't understand.
What I mean is, like all politicians - its just a play on "fear" - fear of terrorism, fear that immigrants will take over the country, fear that videogames will cause young people to turn into homocidal maniacs... fear fear fear.
Because fear is a motive force.
Realize it or not, they demonize young people like this because too few people are willing to stand up and question.
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.
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But yeah, why the heck was Statesman in there? But then, alot of those video game characters were just PRETTY looking, and at least a few "violent" scenes weren't violent at all, just unusual and strange (like the guy being empowerd by that purple lightning)
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My most favorite thing about that is that they actually included a clip from one of the Myst games in there.
Myst!?! For crying out loud!
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I'm extremely disappointed that an image of Statesman would be used in such a way. I know that we designed City of Heroes to appeal to "children of all ages." My proudest accomplishment with the game is that many parents (including my brother) play with their children...sharing, I hope, the same joy for the comic book world that I've had ever since I was 8. I cannot express the shock that I felt seeing that a character created by Cryptic would be used in the same sentence as Columbine.
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My jaw literally dropped open when I saw States in that trailer, especially right at the moment he was in. Couldn't believe it.
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Mind you, had I to play that section 3+ times AND turn up the volume...
The lady in that shot says that the video game violence/regulation issue is politically a win/win issue because it's all about protecting the kids.
From what I have read, the documentary is supposed to have interviews over a wide spectrum of the video game "arena" both industrially and politically. I think I will definitely want to see it when I can.
But as I said before, that is one hell of a slanted trailer, and definitely slanderous in it's presentation of the Statesman character, due to the fact it was the only game I saw in there that wasn't horribly violent (one other was pointed out, but it was one I had never played.) and implicates it is.
Appropriate background for talking about political ramifications though.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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I'm extremely disappointed that an image of Statesman would be used in such a way. I know that we designed City of Heroes to appeal to "children of all ages." My proudest accomplishment with the game is that many parents (including my brother) play with their children...sharing, I hope, the same joy for the comic book world that I've had ever since I was 8. I cannot express the shock that I felt seeing that a character created by Cryptic would be used in the same sentence as Columbine.
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While I appreciate the shock of seeing that picture included with the other game footage--none of those games should be used in the same sentence as Columbine. Connecting any of those games to real life violence is insane. It's just more insane in the case of CoH/CoV.
You've created a great here, and illegitimi non carborundum.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
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I'm extremely disappointed that an image of Statesman would be used in such a way. I know that we designed City of Heroes to appeal to "children of all ages." My proudest accomplishment with the game is that many parents (including my brother) play with their children...sharing, I hope, the same joy for the comic book world that I've had ever since I was 8. I cannot express the shock that I felt seeing that a character created by Cryptic would be used in the same sentence as Columbine.
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But of couse, States...neocons and theocons are like that.
"We are what we pretend to be, therefore, we need to be careful what we pretend to be" - An opinion asserted as fact and then a moral position based on the opinion asserted as fact. What a complete load of crap.
That sounds just like "Dad's against D&D" to me. Same people, just back in 1988. Notice only 25% of America supports George Bush now. Guess What? THAT IS THESE VERY FOLKS RIGHT HERE pounding out this drivel.
Showing Joe "Self-Censore yourself...OR WE WILL" Lieberman means instant discredibility in my book. Or in other words, "Do what we think is right or we will make you do what we think is right" Lieberman is evil and capricious and has no integrity. He's just as dishonest as Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.
It's all about the domination politics. Undermine free will and people will stop standing up for themselves. If they stop standing up for themselves...then no one complains about warrantless wiretapping, lack of habeus corpus, signing statements, torture, using Jesus to justify bigotry and hatred against gays, minorities, women, and anyone that doesn't fit in "the plantation" plan.
It's also the reason all the Gingrichian neocon republicans got their butts tossed out of power in Congress in November of 2006. To use Stateman's iconic image as a tool for neocon oppression is downright dishonest and disengenuos.
It's also the same argument that "Adult Videos increase assaults on the opposite sex..." garbage argument. The video had no facts only assertions and vague inuendos and all flash and no substance. But that is what rightwingers do, they have no argument, all they have is whining and harping: they are harpies and ghouls. Reaganites don't buy this crap...morons do.
I reject the entire argument and the entire video and EVERY LAST ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT STAND BEHIND THIS KINDA DISHONEST MEDIA. I'm not buying and the neocons can shove it up their aperature.
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Generally speaking though - the "political talking point" thing doesn't hold water with me. Yeah, so what if they could never ever make the law stick? It doesn't change that they're just making young people (in particular) look bad to older people who don't understand.
What I mean is, like all politicians - its just a play on "fear" - fear of terrorism, fear that immigrants will take over the country, fear that videogames will cause young people to turn into homocidal maniacs... fear fear fear.
Because fear is a motive force.
Realize it or not, they demonize young people like this because too few people are willing to stand up and question.
[/ QUOTE ] there is nothing new under the sun. im brought to mind a quote from famed nintendo designer of mario and other great games, Shigeru miyamoto" videogames are bad for you? Thats what they said about rock and roll" its been going on since elvis, since chuck berry, since the flappers, i wouldnt worry about them having any new ideas this generation.
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While I appreciate the shock of seeing that picture included with the other game footage--none of those games should be used in the same sentence as Columbine. Connecting any of those games to real life violence is insane. It's just more insane in the case of CoH/CoV.
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I found this fascinating book on the history of Marvel comics in my library once and enjoyed the sit-down. I'll never forget their discussion of the era when comics were looked at in a skeptical, dangerous light. First of all, it was nothing compared to now. Second of all, it came about because a Jack Thompson-like fellow pointed out that nearly all delinquent children read comic books. He failed to note that nearly all children read comic books, so one would expect a similar ratio of delinquents to read them.
Archie does not make you a killer, and neither does Super Mario Brothers. Or Myst.
Like the trailer said: Half of all Americans play video games. Assuming this, and assuming you could tie video games to violence, one would expect violence to have risen during the rising consumption of video games. But it hasn't. It's dropped over the past 20 years or so.
I'm not saying video games eliminate violence (though I have seen some interesting arguments to that effect) as I think other factors are involved, but just to point out the inherent fallacy of suggesting violent video games cause violence. There's just no correlation.
Reactor, don't drag your politics into this. Joe's a lefty, not a "neocon." Nor is Hillary Clinton or Tipper Gore a bunch of Bush-supporters.
I'm not saying the right's hands are clean (the "theocons" as you put it, are quite the type to support this), but the left "Morther Government knows best!" types tear after video games just as hard.
Be pissed off at the neocons and those elements in the right for what they do that you don't like. Don't ascribe everything you hate to them.
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But of couse, States...neocons and theocons are like that.
"We are what we pretend to be, therefore, we need to be careful what we pretend to be" - An opinion asserted as fact and then a moral position based on the opinion asserted as fact. What a complete load of crap.
That sounds just like "Dad's against D&D" to me. Same people, just back in 1988. Notice only 25% of America supports George Bush now. Guess What? THAT IS THESE VERY FOLKS RIGHT HERE pounding out this drivel.
Showing Joe "Self-Censore yourself...OR WE WILL" Lieberman means instant discredibility in my book. Or in other words, "Do what we think is right or we will make you do what we think is right" Lieberman is evil and capricious and has no integrity. He's just as dishonest as Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.
It's all about the domination politics. Undermine free will and people will stop standing up for themselves. If they stop standing up for themselves...then no one complains about warrantless wiretapping, lack of habeus corpus, signing statements, torture, using Jesus to justify bigotry and hatred against gays, minorities, women, and anyone that doesn't fit in "the plantation" plan.
It's also the reason all the Gingrichian neocon republicans got their butts tossed out of power in Congress in November of 2006. To use Stateman's iconic image as a tool for neocon oppression is downright dishonest and disengenuos.
It's also the same argument that "Adult Videos increase assaults on the opposite sex..." garbage argument. The video had no facts only assertions and vague inuendos and all flash and no substance. But that is what rightwingers do, they have no argument, all they have is whining and harping: they are harpies and ghouls. Reaganites don't buy this crap...morons do.
I reject the entire argument and the entire video and EVERY LAST ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT STAND BEHIND THIS KINDA DISHONEST MEDIA. I'm not buying and the neocons can shove it up their aperature.
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Good Lord..
Are you a plant for the vast right wing conspiracy/Neo Cons/Christian Oppressors posting here to supress free speech by getting the thread locked?
...I mean, wow. Just.. wow.
The Paladin
Steel Canyon, Virtue
Exalted
@Paladin
STOP SAYING "SUE"!
While one can initiate a civil suit on any grounds, whether valid or spurious, it is much more difficult to win a suit.
THERE ARE NO GROUNDS FOR WINNING A SUIT HERE.
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Wait now... Couldn't Cryptic(or any one of these video game company featured in the decumentery) sue whoever it is who put the clips together? I mean, in a way, they're misportraying a copywritten character? 
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I'm no lawyer, but I hope so.
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3 words: Defamation of Character
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I hope you posted this as proof that a suit in this case is unwinnable:
1. How could Cryptic prove damages?
2. How could Cryptic prove the opinion that video games is not influential of promoting violence (I mean, 'proof' prove)? It's difficult to prove the positive or the negative of that statement conclusively. And with all that doubt... no successful suit.
3. What actual statement was being made about Statesman which would be the object of the suit?
4. The use of the Statesman image falls under fair use. No one is attempting to use the Statesman image for commercial trade. A short clip does not violate trademark or copyright law. If you produced a video of how super heroes in comic books promote good social values, you could show a brief clip of Superman and DC couldn't win a suit against you (they can sue, but they'd lose).
So... let's all drop the "sue 'em" bandwagon. We hear lots about these types of suits, what we don't here is how they wind up... mostly dismissed or lost.
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
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There has been a lot of talk about video games causing violence by people like Jack Thompson. Some people agree with his views and some people do not...I for one do not. Personal opinions aside, a documentary is being made called "Moral Combat" talking about the gaming industry's effect on society. Penny Arcade listed this link . Within this trailer they have a few screenshots of Statesman, as well as shots from other games. I'm not trying to start a flamewar about video game violence, but what I do ask is this: Do you think the CoX universe really falls under the same category as the rest of the games shown in 'Moral Combat'? Is there really a reason to put a game like ours under fire? Hope this makes sense, and thanks for reading my early morning rambling.
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Oh My god this is the same religious inspired, 'don't think for yourself, we'll think for you' Attitude that drives me insane.
I have an experience to share. My grand parents freaked out when CBC aired pics of Saddam Husain's execution. They called the CBC and yelled on the phone about how inappropriate it was they called there friends, and they yelled at me saying it was my fault and the fault of my generation.
What could I say? Well this was my rebuttal. If you don't like something on TV.....Change the chanel.
A lot of people are trying to force there morals on society through censorship. Bad idea. If you want to teach your kids certain values or bring them up a certain way, that's fine. But every adult should have the choice of what he sees and experiences. It is not up to anyone else to control what I want to see. On that note I will extend the thought just a bit further.
There is a woman on the Internet who, when she was underage took nude photos; "pornographic" photos of herself. she is now an adult and wants to post those pictures on a porn website to charge people to see but is not aloud to. Should she be? I think the answer is yes.
As long as no one is coercing children into producing child pornography, I see no reason why it should not be made available to the public. I don't go for that sort of thing personally, but some do. No one should be able to control what I want to see provided it does not hurt others. Period.
--
What is "real"? How do you define "real"? If you're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then "real" is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain...
You gotta love how the "You are what you pretend to be" comes right during a clip of a WW2 game showing a N -azi camp!
Looks like I'm a member of the M.E.C. now, oh and the U.S.M.C, oh and the Peoples Army...And the Spetnaz, and the Seals...Never bought any booster packs...
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STOP SAYING "SUE"!
While one can initiate a civil suit on any grounds, whether valid or spurious, it is much more difficult to win a suit.
THERE ARE NO GROUNDS FOR WINNING A SUIT HERE.
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Wait now... Couldn't Cryptic(or any one of these video game company featured in the decumentery) sue whoever it is who put the clips together? I mean, in a way, they're misportraying a copywritten character?
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I'm no lawyer, but I hope so.
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3 words: Defamation of Character
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I hope you posted this as proof that a suit in this case is unwinnable:
1. How could Cryptic prove damages?
2. How could Cryptic prove the opinion that video games is not influential of promoting violence (I mean, 'proof' prove)? It's difficult to prove the positive or the negative of that statement conclusively. And with all that doubt... no successful suit.
3. What actual statement was being made about Statesman which would be the object of the suit?
4. The use of the Statesman image falls under fair use. No one is attempting to use the Statesman image for commercial trade. A short clip does not violate trademark or copyright law. If you produced a video of how super heroes in comic books promote good social values, you could show a brief clip of Superman and DC couldn't win a suit against you (they can sue, but they'd lose).
So... let's all drop the "sue 'em" bandwagon. We hear lots about these types of suits, what we don't here is how they wind up... mostly dismissed or lost.
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Perhaps Slander or Libel would be better suited for this sort of thing.
And of course proving damages is the hard part to do. IANAL, IANYL, IANC'sL, and INSIWAL (I never said I was a lawyer). But if there's precedent, and/ or they can prove damages or otherwise prove that a video like this can unduly harm reputation, it can be an option. Hollywood actors have sued tabloids (and won) for similar reasons (unauthorized images in magazines depicting them unfavorably).
And whether you agree or disagree with litigation as an option is your opinion. I'm just playing devil's advocate YMMV.
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There has been a lot of talk about video games causing violence by people like Jack Thompson. Some people agree with his views and some people do not...I for one do not. Personal opinions aside, a documentary is being made called "Moral Combat" talking about the gaming industry's effect on society. Penny Arcade listed this link . Within this trailer they have a few screenshots of Statesman, as well as shots from other games. I'm not trying to start a flamewar about video game violence, but what I do ask is this: Do you think the CoX universe really falls under the same category as the rest of the games shown in 'Moral Combat'? Is there really a reason to put a game like ours under fire? Hope this makes sense, and thanks for reading my early morning rambling.
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It's completely irrelevent what Thompson thinks, or what Congress thinks. Video games are protected expression under the first amendment. Even if the game-hating nuts got the law they wanted - say the FCC rating games and selling a certain rating or higher was a felony and a huge fine - it would have a minimal impact on the game industry. Like movies, games would either skirt the line to get the rating they needed for their demographic (PG-13) or just market to adults (R+) and kids who can get their parents to buy it for them.
There's a few things Jack Thompson and his ilk like to ignore:
* Most of these games are played by adults far more than children, much like R rated movies
* They don't have the constitutional authority to regulate what adults view and play.
* Congress are not our parents. They are our servants. I don't need some moralistic legislator deciding what's right for me. (Or my children for that matter, and I say that as one of the 1% of parents who, for example, won't let my 5 yr old drink soda) I'd like them to deal with profiteering oil companies, a ridiculously high deficit, a bad war, out of control inefficient healthcare, rampant corruption, and so on.
As for Jack Thompson, himself, he's best ignored. Maybe he'll finally go away.
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So stop being disappointed and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. You won't allow the radical Christians/conservatives etc. to sander your creation without responding with your own comments on how flawed their logic is, will you?
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I should point out, if someone has not already, that the man in the video is a liberal democrat and is Jewish. Do not bash religions or political affiliations as you can find nuts on either side of the fence.
I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but I wonder if they've cleared copyright use for all the video games used in this clip? Sue their behinds for bringing your intellectual property into disrepute, Jack!
Moth Twiceborn, Slan, Mr. Long
Jane Droid, 43 Earth/Emp, Alix Frost, 43 Ice/Eng
Warlock Krelleth, Level 50 Zombie Mastermind
Virtue Server
"Some people find fault as if it were buried treasure"
I'm with the Paladin on this one.
Has anyone considered a letter to the producers of this "Moral Combat" video? An intelligent letter virtually signed by all of us and forwarded to them -and- this new Speaker of the House Pelosi... well, if we could even get a thousand names I'm sure that would make some impression.
I don't have the Internet skills to generate such a document but I'd happily sign it.
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try working in a bingo hall and you will find all those urges... and a greatly diminished faith in humanity... True as true Aged_Ice.. true as true
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From what I've gathered, working in Customer Support or as a retailer tends to make people want to chainsaw customers in half. Or so I've heard
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No, you see, cause then the customers REALLY get you. Cause guess who has to clean up the mess?
Bludgeon them over the head, dump them in the garbage bin, and wheel it to the back of the store and empty it into the garbage compactor ASAP. No messy cleanup that way.
EDIT : Not that I have ever thought this out, by the way. Also if you use the large bins, you can probably fit 3-4 people in then cover them with real garbage, so the other customers don't see anything and ask questions.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.