ItsTheSheppy

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aside from States... didn't they also depict Abe from Oddworld? Oddworld is eroding the moral fabric of our society?

Lawl.

I beg to differ. On a three man team, I loaded the zone first, and waited right by the entrance for my teammates to zone in. The bank robbery began anyway.

Edit: Accepting the possibility I'm wrong, that doesn't change the fact that navigating the zone is torture, and setting it so the robbery doesn't start until all teammates are on the map is STILL preferable, so that new players, or poeple who don't have printouts on the missions scripts for the game, aren't finding themselves on these horrid, disastrous safeguards.

Far as I can see, it boils down to the following complaints that NEED addressing:

1) Aggro range. Random street goons can aggro from miles away and see through stealth, super speed... everything. Makes traversing the zones a veritable nightmare.

2) The bank robbery begins the MOMENT the first person loads the zone, whether his team is ready or not. That means fast loaders typically have to rush to the bank and slow the villain down while the rest of his team loads. This splits the team up and demolishes any semblance of strategy.

My fix to make these more fun:

1) The zone is EMPTY when you first arrive, and the bank robbery doesn't start until every team member is ON THE MAP. However, to rpevent people from exploiting, the bank is locked until every teammate is on the map and the robbery begins.

2) After the team defeats the villains, THEN enemies start spawning in the streets.

3) These enemies have NORMAL aggro range and NORMAL perception.

Badda-bing, badda-boom.

The Galacto Rangers!

The Galacto Rangers is a Golden/Silver age supergroup that focuses on character creativity and positive RP. We are an RP focused group for lighthearted characters and fun-loving, community-oriented players. No activity requirements, only SG rule is until level 25, characters must be in SG mode. colors and symbol are optional.

And here I was, hoping desperately that Corporate was the last bastion for decent debate. I called him on the ad hominum and he went ahead and did it anyway. Well, whatever. I've made my point. If the forum community is too wrapped up in itself to understand that the majority of the playerbase don't come here, then thats not my problem. I just hope this issue doesn't cost PlayNC too many customers.

If only posters could lock their own threads.

Edit: By the way, feel free to continue calling me names simply because I'm a dissenting opinion. You'll note, if you look through my previous posts, I never once did so myself. Taking the high road? Maybe. Or perhaps I don't use the internet to stroke my own ego. I will not be checking this thread any longer, but if you wanna continue calling me names and pretending like you're hurting my feelings, please feel free to conitnue doing so. I'll be over here playing F.E.A.R.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Stop telling me its the retailer's fault! That isn't the point! The point is that its out now, and what is being done about it. The point is that the retailers broke the street date and, as a result, PlayNC may be losing customers who are angry at being locked out of the game they just bought, who may very well go and buy something else instead. Think beyond the means and think of the ends, folks.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are angry and irrational.

One reason you are angry is that even though you were lucky enough to find a store that sold a game before it would work, you are unable to play it... because you bought it before would work.

The other reason you are angry is that you have now discovered that there are people playing their games right now, while yours is not working.

You DEMAND that your game be made to work so that you can get in and get what these other people are having. You are FURIOUS that you are being left out.

In your RAGE you claim that there is special treatment being handed out and claim that these people with working games should not be the "super special" ones whose games work when yours does not.

You then LIE to us and pretend that you are not angry, you are only upset... you are CONCERNED for the WELL-BEING of the producers of the game which you are so angry at. You feign sympathy and beg and plead to play your game, THREATENING that if you cannot play your game, the game will SUFFER and DIE.

What you fail to understand, or choose to ignore, is that YOUR case is the special one. You should not have received your non-working game yet.
You are, in fact, MORE fortunate than most people in your situation, because you were able to pick it up earlier, which will be convenient for you when it activates and you can play it, on Halloween, the release date.

Because of an error on the part of your retailer, you have received this special bonus of having your game ready when it will begin to work, on Monday.

However, you are still not happy. You are still angry, because you want it to work now, like certain other people you have heard of.
The second thing you fail to understand, or choose to ignore, is that those whose games do work two days before the release date, bought special promotional materials which you did not buy, in return for their extra time in the game before your game will activate.
This is a very simple thing to understand, and your apparent failure to understand it makes you either exceptionally stupid, or an exceptionally poor liar.

To demonstrate how simple it is I will lay it out plainly:

Special promotional materials were made available in a separate box.
This special box cost ten dollars.
The special box contained, among other things, a special code to allow the purchaser to play the game before the release date. Those who bought it, bought it for that reason.
This is a fairly common marketing method in the industry, by the way.

Persons who paid the $10 and bought the extra box, get the special rewards which the box contains.

Persons who did not pay the $10 and did not buy the extra box, do not get the special rewards which the box contains.

Or to put it another way:
If you have a cheese pizza, and I have a pepperoni pizza, you might want pepperoni also. However, I paid $12 for my pepperoni pizza, and you paid $8 for your cheese pizza. I bought pepperoni. You did not buy pepperoni. Therefore you do not receive pepperoni on your pizza.

"Buying things" is not a new concept. It is not a concept which will somehow harm the retail or game development industry, which by the way, is based upon "buying things."
If you were somehow unaware of the availability of a product, which you did not buy, the fact of your unawareness does not entitle you to receive that product for free when you see others, who did buy it, enjoying it.

I'm afraid I can't make it any simpler than that. So, do you understand now? Or will you continue trying to convince us that you are either stupid, or a liar?

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you do me a favor and discuss the principle subject of the debate,a nd stop attacking me on a personal level? I'll admit I'm annoyed, but I'm not OMG FURIOUS.

I'm, in truth, far more concerned with the potential loss of customers than anything else. I love PlayNC, I love CoH, and I hope to love CoV. I'm just worried that there are a lot of burned casual gamers out there.

Ad hominum (sp?) attacks are the weakest tool of any debater. Not saying you're doing that, but it has been tossed around in this thread. But hey, its the internet, and as long as you pretend to be awesomer than someone, you are.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Where is the harm in opening the game to the general playerbase a couple days early?

[/ QUOTE ]
It would cause Cryptic/NCSoft to break the terms of sale on the pre-order boxes which lists the 2-day headstart as an EXCLUSIVE perk to pre-ordering. The people who pre-ordered are exponentially more likely to be long-term subscribers. You really don't want to anger them needlessly.

I also think you underestimate impulse shoppers being patient enough to wait the two days.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really think they stand to lose more customers by opening the servers than not?

[ QUOTE ]
I am perfectly clear on your point. Last year, CoH had a 3-day pre-order headstart. I did not buy a pre-order code but my son did. I was not upset when he got in 3 days earlier than me because I knew he would and I wouldn't even though we both picked up our retail copies on the same day. On the Official Launch date, I setup my NCSoft account, entered my retail code and have been playing ever since.

They did not re-invent the wheel with the CoV headstart - they did it just like they did previously. The CoH headstart did not prove to be dooooooom for CoH and neither will the CoV headstart be dooooooom for CoV. I am certain that then, same as now, a small number of people felt inconvenienced for the same reasons you have expressed and loudly expressed their feelings.

I made it a point to learn the details - it was my responsibility to find out about the details - if I had misunderstood something about the details, it would have been my failure and the fault of no one else.

You, Sheboygan, need to accept the responsibility for your failure to learn the details of this marketing promotion and stop trying to find someone else to blame.

[/ QUOTE ]

Blame doesn't solve the problem. The problem is the game is open now to anyone and everyone, but they can't play it and that could cost them customers. It doesn't matter who's FAULT it is. It matters, now, if PlayNC wants to stick by their guns, or allow their customers play the game on the day they buy it and not have to wait.

I'm not here looking for personal gratification. I'm not stupid. There's nothing this forum community can give me. This is simply a point of debate. So stop telling me I'm at fault for buying the game, like I don't know that. My point is, what about the people who also didn't know? Because I'm willing to bet there's more of them than there are of you.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

But its perfectly plausible that a customer would look at that, scoff and return it. They doin't wanna wait until they get home from school/work on Monday. they want to play a game now. And they will return CoV and get another one.


[/ QUOTE ]

I know. I also know that if a customer pushes hard enough, they can get whatever they want. It doesn't take much elbow-twisting for a customer to get a retailer to take a game back thats 'defective' and replace it with a different game. Or the customer typically makes up some story about their computer not being compatible or whatever. It happens, and it happens a lot.

And again, displaying no knowledge of the fact that once software is open, it can only be returned if defective and even THEN, only for the same title. There is no "I didn't like it" clause or "The servers weren't up yet so I want my money back" clause in software retail. It's an anti-piracy measure, dontchaknow?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Neither Cryptic nor NCSoft have any control precisely when stores put CoV on shelves. Stores understand that the CoV servers officially go up on Oct. 31st...but they can decide to put the game on shelves before then.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand that, and never debated it. I'm saying that intentions are nice, but reality is more important. the game is out, and people can buy it. The majority of your customers aren't preorder customers, or customers who even read the forums. You stand to lost customers here, and a loss in customers means less money, means less money for development, means a chance that all the cool things I'd like to see happen, and you'd like to do, could be harder to accomplish.

Where is the harm in opening the game to the general playerbase a couple days early?

[ QUOTE ]
I still don't understand why they will be losing customers over this.

It is not uncommon for an MMORPG to be on the shelves a couple of days before the servers are brought on-line.

If someone tries to enter the retail code, they will get a message, "Try again on the 31st." I don't see the problem here. If someone buys the retail game and has no clue about the head-start, they won't know what they are missing.

[/ QUOTE ]

But its perfectly plausible that a customer would look at that, scoff and return it. They doin't wanna wait until they get home from school/work on Monday. they want to play a game now. And they will return CoV and get another one.

The central point is: Its not a question fo who's fault it is. The problem doesn't change. PlayNC should really be concerned with keeping the customers who can buy the game right now but not play it.

and for the record, I have other games to play. I'm just concerned that a game company I love is hurting itself.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I mean, the Xbox is a system that appeals to ALL gamers.

[/ QUOTE ]
No it doesn't. it has more of a mainstream appeal to a wider range of gamers, but not to "ALL" gamers. Just sayin'.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you wanna mince words, fine. It sppeals to a "substantially higher amount of gamers".

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Then, why don't you inform NCSoft of this particular store breaking the release date, and causing the problem that you've ran into? That way NCSoft can address the problem you're complaining about. Give them the store address and location, so they're made aware of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

That wouldn't do any good. They can't stop the retailer from selling the game now that the street date is broken. (And typically, its Wal-Mart that breaks street dates, or Best Buy. Large retailers are famous for it). All they can do now is make the choice:


[/ QUOTE ]

No, but it WOULD stop those unscrupulous rogues at Gamestop (or wherever you ordered it) from kicking anybody else's inner puppy by doing such a thing in the future. Think of all the potential customers you're not helping out by being so irresponsible.

[ QUOTE ]

Keep the game locked for everyone but preorder customers until monday, or let the customers who are buying it right now play?

[/ QUOTE ]

ie: "Lemme in! I'm mad. Gimme what I want and gimme it NOW because I made an uninformed decision."

It's not hive-mind. It's not hungry wolves. It's not pre-order geeks. It's the fact that you can't accept culpability for your actions.

[/ QUOTE ]

My actiosn which include... what? Sitting here at home on Thursday and recieving a call from Gamestop saying "Your copy of CoV will be in on Friday".

I mean, at the time, I figured it makes sense. Releasing a game on a Friday is good business. Not only does it set you up for the weekend, but people have freer wallets on Fridays, because its a happy day.

I'm not saying I'm not at fault for not knowing about Headstart. I'm saying that the many, many customers who I gurantee you do NOT know about it are getting burned right now, and PlayNC should help them out.

A mistake has been made, people can buy the game before PlayNC intended, and your solution is what? "Screw them"? "Its the retailers fault so guess it SUCKS to be you!"?

Pretend for a moment that its just you and me here, and you don't have a whole forum community to impress, and tell me why it is that these casual gamers should be locked out of a game they can legally purchase, who probably are unawares of this Headstart program?

[ QUOTE ]
I challenge the assertion that the preorder crowd is a minority. To make that claim, go try and reserve on of those new Xbox 360 things, really. People are all over the internet, and if they did any research at all on this game, then they knew the actual release date.

You can make the claim that people are just walking into a store and saying "Ooooo pretty box!" But I think that happens less than one may think. Especially in an MMO. I could be wrong, it's been known to happen.

Oh yes, and one more point. I have bought games that I was unable to make work from time to time. You know the first thing I did? Went to the companies web site, where there is usually a plethora of information as to why it won't work (Excepting Black and White 2, still can't get the thing to work right). Some people will be miffed, but this is not the Earth shattering event that you are claiming.

Goodness, I've been dragged in!
PM

[/ QUOTE ]

Comparing it to the release of the Xbox is a leeeeetle bit of a stretch. I mean, the Xbox is a system that appeals to ALL gamers. CoV is an MMO game amongst many MMO games that appeal to a smaller amount of gamers. And if my experience tells me anything, the "preorder" crowd is a LOT smaller than the "its my birthday and my grandma gave me $50" crowd.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Good freaking lord, its not PlayNC's FAULT. It is, however, their PROBLEM. If you ran a company, would you risk losing your retail customers in order to continue appealing to your marginally smaller preorder customers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Then, why don't you inform NCSoft of this particular store breaking the release date, and causing the problem that you've ran into? That way NCSoft can address the problem you're complaining about. Give them the store address and location, so they're made aware of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

That wouldn't do any good. They can't stop the retailer from selling the game now that the street date is broken. (And typically, its Wal-Mart that breaks street dates, or Best Buy. Large retailers are famous for it). All they can do now is make the choice:

Keep the game locked for everyone but preorder customers until monday, or let the customers who are buying it right now play? Think of it this way:

Keep the game locked until Monday and risk losing customers,

or

Open the game up and risk losing absolutely nobody.

Is it really a hard decisiuon? Is this really some sort of glaring problem the forum community must attack, like a pack of starving wolves, and tear to pieces?

[ QUOTE ]
<insert more tissues and manly 3-pat hugs>

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for contributing to the discussion. You truly are a master of debate.

Look, do you guys even realize that the pre-order community is well within the minority, and the majority of gamers are not aware of this "headstart" program. All they know is they bought a game they can't play, and that is a major risk to lose potential customers. I'm gonna copy-paste that so we don't lose focus here.

Look, do you guys even realize that the pre-order community is well within the minority, and the majority of gamers are not aware of this "headstart" program. All they know is they bought a game they can't play, and that is a major risk to lose potential customers.

Look, do you guys even realize that the pre-order community is well within the minority, and the majority of gamers are not aware of this "headstart" program. All they know is they bought a game they can't play, and that is a major risk to lose potential customers.

Look, do you guys even realize that the pre-order community is well within the minority, and the majority of gamers are not aware of this "headstart" program. All they know is they bought a game they can't play, and that is a major risk to lose potential customers.

There. Discuss THAT. thats the point of the thread!

Stop telling me its the retailer's fault! That isn't the point! The point is that its out now, and what is being done about it. The point is that the retailers broke the street date and, as a result, PlayNC may be losing customers who are angry at being locked out of the game they just bought, who may very well go and buy something else instead. Think beyond the means and think of the ends, folks.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the retailers didn't start selling before monday, then everything would be peaches in cream. But its not a perfect world and this didn't happen, so what now?

[/ QUOTE ]


And the retailers selling before they are supposed to is NCSofts fault how?

*rap rap rap* McFly!

[/ QUOTE ]

Good freaking lord, its not PlayNC's FAULT. It is, however, their PROBLEM. If you ran a company, would you risk losing your retail customers in order to continue appealing to your marginally smaller preorder customers?

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that the forum community is unable to look at this objectively. I hate the "internet community hive-mind".

Look, think of it this way. If you are reading this, you are in the MINORITY of the Coh/CoV gaming community. the vast majority of every game's playerbase does not bother with the forums. This is what we refer to as the 'casual' gamers. they uninformed, they are flighty, and there are a LOT more of them then there are of you.

In order for a game to succeed, you must appeal and take care of your casual playerbase. the casual playerbase does not care what the 'intended' launch day is. When they see the game on the shelf, its launched. If they buy it and can't play, they return it and move on to something else. Thus, is the CRUX AND ENTIRE POINT of this thread.

I'm guessing many of you don't understand that the pre-order crowd is a LOT smaller than the casual retail crowd. As in, we could maybe pack all of you preorder guys on a football field, and fill the stadium with everyone else.

The game is out, but its locked out for anyone who didn't preorder. However, this was posted only on the website of the game... how does this help people walking into GameStop today to buy the game they read somewhere was gonna be cool?

What harm is there in letting them play? Why lock them out? So the Awesome People get to run around and play before the groundlings are let in?

Look, I know its a GOOD marketing decision to let people play ahead of time if they pay a little extra or do a little something extra. Fine, whatever. But ONLY if you're not rubbing it in the face of everyone else who can now buy the game. If the retailers didn't start selling before monday, then everything would be peaches in cream. But its not a perfect world and this didn't happen, so what now?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Look, I realize that PlayNC may not have wanted the game on the shelves before the 31st (which I still think is the worst possible launch date they could have picked). But they ARE. People are buying it RIGHT NOW, totally unaware that they cannot play it.

Are you guys following me? Even people who didn't reserve it! Guys just looking for a new distraction, who check out the neato box art, read the back and then buy it, are getting burned when they get home. Every person I've spoken to has said that if that happened to them, they would return the game and spend the money elsewhere, with no exceptions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then I'd blame the retailers releasing it to the public before the actual release date, rather then the company running the game. The CompUSA I pre-ordered from won't let me pick mine up until Monday. I'd say it sounds like the retailers breaking the agreement by misleading people if they're selling it to open retail instead of pre-order only before the release date.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I'm not absolving the retailers! If the launch day was kept sacred, and it launched on Monday, I'd be a little bugged that it launched on a Monday but it wouldn't bother me any more than that. However, its out. The Launch day has happened. So put yourself in PlayNC's shoes. Do you risk losing all these new customers, or do you do something about it?

What harm is there in rolling back the "Headstart". What, all your customers who pre-ordered online will throw a fit and strike, or something?

[ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
Just sit back and imagine right now how many kids got this game on Friday from their local EB or GameStop or (fill in here) and got it home, only to find themselves locked out because they weren't a Super Special member? Think of the customers PlayNC is losing!

[/ QUOTE ]
Here's a tissue. Nobody here is "Super Special". Many of us actually bothered to get our pre-order boxes after doing some brief reading on the game months ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm gonna take a big risk here and guess you're not in marketing. When you have Blizzard dominating the MMO player base, and you find yourself in a situation where you're losing customers, the correct response is not "Here's a tissue". Its "how can we compansate so our majority of new customers aren't burned".

[ QUOTE ]
I'm still curious how you figured out the 2-day pre-order headstart date (launch date minus 2) and still claim ignorance of the actual launch date. Boggles my mind.

You should be upset with yourself and no one else.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you not getting the point of this post? The game is available now. retail. The "intended" launch date is no longer viable, because now the launch date is Yesterday. It doesn't matter when you ordered it online, because Little Timmy can waltz into GameStop and buy it as I speak.

But the game is locked out to EVERYONE who didn't pre-order it. Just sit back and think of how many customers PlayNC is losing.

[ QUOTE ]
Actually I'm saying you probably misunderstood what you were buying and that it's not really anyone's fault. If you reserved the "game" (as no pre-order was announced then) then that's exactly what you got, the game. The pre-order and two-day head start has been made pretty well known on the City of Heroes sites.

Like I said, a mistake that's a lesson.

[/ QUOTE ]

Were I anyone but a lover of this game, that 'lesson' would be "Caveat emptor", and I'd buy some other game. It bums me out to think PlayNC is losing customers it DESPERATELY needs to compete with Blizzard.

Look, I realize that PlayNC may not have wanted the game on the shelves before the 31st (which I still think is the worst possible launch date they could have picked). But they ARE. People are buying it RIGHT NOW, totally unaware that they cannot play it.

Are you guys following me? Even people who didn't reserve it! Guys just looking for a new distraction, who check out the neato box art, read the back and then buy it, are getting burned when they get home. Every person I've spoken to has said that if that happened to them, they would return the game and spend the money elsewhere, with no exceptions.