Official Thread: Safeguard Missions
By
1tonweasel,
Posted on: 2006-11-14 21:05 in Developers' Corner
Just a general complaint that the side missions do not give credit to the entire team, just the one who does them. Similar to Pillboxes in RV, etc.--it kind of discourages teaming, at least from my present perspective. And in RV, I can get a heavy to help from time-to-time. I may be SOL on my empath when it comes to all these. Keeping an open mind, though. 
And woo for more content for higher levels--thanks!
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One thing that was a pain was that side missions that had been completed/failed remained marked on the instance map - several times, team members have ended up doubling back to completed side missions due to being unable to tell which ones are still active.
I did one of these, it was an interesting idea, but it seemed flawed. We are advised to get to the bank without delay, right? But that means that the team will inevitably split up, which means at least one person will probably get taken out en route. Then one person couldn't get into the bank. Then it kept telling us to go to stop the "getaway truck", which was a boat that we couldn't interact with.
Many people on my team ended up with some huge amount of debt(I wasn't one of them, and I cannot recall how much they were complaining about, but it was a lot), which, I will admit, was heavily our faults, but there was just no place for the people who couldn't fly to run to when they were getting creamed. I've been on Mayhem Missions that went bad, but never as bad as that went...Let's hope my next goes better
I'd like to note that apparently, Arson side missions still don't have/show their own, separate timer. This was already an issue on Test, and Ravenstorm said it was under investigation/being worked on.
Otherwise, these are fun. Hectic, pulse-pounding fun.
Main drawback for me so far is that our 50s can't access the lower-level Safeguards without getting a lower-level character to help them out. I think it'd be nice to be able to go into a lower-level zone and do Police Band missions there to qualify for earlier Safeguards. We do get the police contacts in every Zone, whether we can use them or not -- might as well make them useful for something. And speaking of the police contacts, with them and all the Zone contacts (New Faultline, Striga, Croatoa) I think it's high time to get a system to sort/order contacts to our preference, or at least toggle whether certain contacts are being displayed. But that goes beyond the scope of this thread I guess.
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But that goes beyond the scope of this thread I guess.
[/ QUOTE ] It might--but I don't think you'll get any arguments about it. Yes, as noted--multiple waypoints on the map, despite the side missions being completed, are pretty confusing.
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I finally had a chance to do one of these missions, they are just not fun when compared to mayhem missions. My VG would run the upper level mayhems for mad xp and totally destroy everything on the map. Hero side you just dont have the same feel. It is human nature to want to destroy stuff which is why mayhems are so much better. Had they told us to go to rouge isles and destroy stuff there I bet people would have taken a liking to safe guard missions then.
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Issue:
Malta (Sappers at least, then the rest once hit) seem to be seeing through Super Speed and Stealth on Peregrine Safeguard. This occured multiple times to multiple individuals with varying degrees of stealth running.
Issue:
Rescue PPD Side Mission, Carnies were porting into the Jail cells not allowing the Officers to be rescued, while the side mission could be completed, badge progress could not be made.
The Carnies in the cells could attack you if you were visible to them in the cell. You could target them, but not attack or hit them with AOEs through the cell walls.
Other than the usual rubber banding and fighting a Mu Guardian (im primary energy and it had like 90% energy resist or something ) for about 3 minutes things went fine
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If there is one thing I despised about mayhem missions, it's that when you're able to get an arson to work properly (alot of times I kill the right set of of badguys, get the message that I got the key, but still can't access the building... and no, it's not that I'm just getting a different side mission, usually this one is my first priority, and after getting the key, NO side mission is available), I still have to compete with my teammates (if I have any... teammates really do complicate mayhem missions) to get the arson credit.
Now I find out that I'm gonna have to do this for EVERY side mission heroside? add to the fact that safeguard missions start out feeling more like work than fun, and this makes me not even want to bother with them. Nothing like being told by the guy who's mission it is that since we finished the bank, it's time for me to get out of his mission so I don't take any of his side mission credits. And furthermore, my main hero is a Defender, so soloing things like this is far from his strong point...
Way to go guys, this could have been a great concept to give me a reason to enjoy working with teams, but it just reinforces my desire to solo with a brute or corrupter than even mess around with my heroes...
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I did one yesterday from the detective in Peregrine Island. I did all the side missions by getting keys from defeating the boss carnies I could find - everything went great until the 3rd side mission (i believe there were 4 in all, and a named boss in the last one).
Bugs:
In the 3rd, my imps disappeared off screen but I could view there health, they died off map. Also, any NPC I attacked in the 3rd mission disappeared after I hit them with just 1 attack. I could still complete the mission because when they disappeared it was as if I defeated them apparently.
In the 4th mission: same thing, all NPCs disappeared EXCEPT when I went up the elevator - the named boss and the minions up there I had to defeat.
; )
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Main drawback for me so far is that our 50s can't access the lower-level Safeguards without getting a lower-level character to help them out. I think it'd be nice to be able to go into a lower-level zone and do Police Band missions there to qualify for earlier Safeguards. We do get the police contacts in every Zone, whether we can use them or not -- might as well make them useful for something.
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I agree. I'm not that high a level on the hero side but I have already outleveld the Atlas Park mission and couldn't find anyone who wanted to do the police band missions last night. Maybe, somehow, allow everyone access to the maps regardless of level through the end of the year?
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Issue:
Malta (Sappers at least, then the rest once hit) seem to be seeing through Super Speed and Stealth on Peregrine Safeguard. This occured multiple times to multiple individuals with varying degrees of stealth running.
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This is true for the street groups in all the safeguard missions.
Although I enjoy the missions, it annoys me that concealment powers don't provide any benefit. As soon as you get in an enemy group's activation range, they aggro on you (as well as nearby objects). I don't mind the enemies attacking objects when you activate them, but they still shouldn't see you until you're in their concealment-adjusted aggro range.
One change request, although I'll be the first to say that it may not be at all easy.
With regular contacts, the progress bar fills up blue, and at a certain point we get their phone number.
With detectives, it fills up red to show progress towards a safeguard. However, there is no corresponding blue "fill up", and no option to ever get their phone number.
Have you considfered adding a second bar that fills up blue as we complete Safeguards, and allows us to get their phone number, so that we don't have to keep heading over to talk to them.
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Main drawback for me so far is that our 50s can't access the lower-level Safeguards without getting a lower-level character to help them out. I think it'd be nice to be able to go into a lower-level zone and do Police Band missions there to qualify for earlier Safeguards. We do get the police contacts in every Zone, whether we can use them or not -- might as well make them useful for something.
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I agree. I'm not that high a level on the hero side but I have already outleveld the Atlas Park mission and couldn't find anyone who wanted to do the police band missions last night. Maybe, somehow, allow everyone access to the maps regardless of level through the end of the year?
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It works the same way for CoV mayhem missions. Just treat the lower level safeguard missions like badge missions you missed; you need tag along with lower level heroes to do them. I'd like to be able to solo them too, but I can understand why we can't; they're beneath our notice. We have higher level threats that require our attention.
My first attempt at a Safeguard was very humiliating.
All of my friends were busy with villain side rsfs, so I decide to 2box between my 50 ff/psi def badge hunter and a midlevel ill/storm controller that could use some skxp. I have my 50 pick up the police band contact for the first time, ghost as much as I can through about 8 cave missions in a row (didn't keep close count). And I get a call to go safeguard in PI.
My duo enters the mish, and right away we encounter some Malta laying waste to a parking lot. I was tempted to leave them, but I wasn't confident enough that safeguards aren't set up to not punish heroes who let too much vandalism happen, so we engaged. I didn't handle the encounter too well, and the controller got out of sk range and died.
This wasn't so bad though, as I could vengeance and get some vigilance benefit. So once the Malta were done I flew down to the bank door and entered.
As I was tp'ing my dead sk into the lobby, the main villains started running past me and out the door! I thought I had had several minutes yet but I guess not, so I started scrambling, trying to throw my single target crowd controls on various guys still in the lobby, then running out the door myself.
Outside there was an extra Arachnos ambush right at the door. So I'm trying to scramble to catch up with a 51 boss and a handful of lts and minions fleeing to the escape copter, while trying to fend off -fly spiders and critical strike guys and psi girls and nearby-aggroing sappers and turrets and gunslingers. I start missing (control) attack after (control) attack despite running tactics (I didn't think there was a night widow around but I didn't have a good grasp of what was around me in the chaos). I die quick.
I dejectedly click to go to hospital, and find I get spawned in the middle of a street somewhere. Disoriented, I check my map and notice that the escape copter is lit, so I fly to it, and then start flying down the street towards the bank. Half a block away I encounter the first bankfleeing mob, and I start whittling on him, and soon he's joined by the main boss and others, and some Malta too. I'm behind on my toggles and I can't fend them off for long again. 10 seconds later the mission failed and my 2 guys are dumped unceremoniously at the feet of a random hero who laughed at me.
Now, I imagine we did look kind of funny, but I was definitely not in much of a mood to deal with that. I wasn't much in a mood to deal with other heroes who came by willing to rez us either.
I didn't say anything to any of them. I was just trying to think of what I could've done better, but going over it in my mind all I could conclude was that there was just too much stacked against me to overcome. Primarily, dps for a ff/psi is too weak for the haste on the (lvl 51 on heroic?) bank robbers, and 2boxed crowd control is too thin to handle bosses and ambushes and adds all at once.
I could try it solo to hopefully drop the boss to a lt and thin out more of the spawns, which would help make the encounter fit more with my control powers, but I'm still low on dps for how quick they are and I'd have to sacrifice playtime my controller is hurting for.
I could try to get more of a team to help take on the mission, but lately I've been having trouble with that... I haven't managed to log on at a time before my friends are committed to other endeavors, and I haven't had much interest from random heroes on the search list with whom I've tried chatting.
I suppose I could start the mish, leave my controller in to hold it open and then switch my main to my regen scrapper, and just own the map. But that's silly and doesn't get my def anywhere.
Which leaves me maybe with trying to keep the controller alive better, and either blindly rushing to the bank, or camping the escape helicopter, (maybe clearing the area a bit). I can probably get somewhere with either approach, but I just can't see how it'll be more than a marginal improvement.
I don't know what to suggest really. Maybe the devs can double check that the bank robbers aren't jumping the gun on fleeing? But it doesn't seem like there's anything wrong with the intended design, there's nothing that can be fixed, it just doesn't work for me. It just seems like I'm being denied the content of a safeguard mission solely because I'm the wrong AT or the wrong build. Much like the sense of being denied the content of rsfs because my stalker is the wrong AT, or being denied the content of the isolator badge because I'm the wrong build (as in I timestamped my build too early).
I imagine in general safeguards are fun, I just fall into the humiliated minority I guess.
I have an issue with the number of mobs that spawn when you are in front of the bank. And the pshy mobs in particular.
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In the 3rd, my imps disappeared off screen but I could view there health, they died off map. Also, any NPC I attacked in the 3rd mission disappeared after I hit them with just 1 attack. I could still complete the mission because when they disappeared it was as if I defeated them apparently.
In the 4th mission: same thing, all NPCs disappeared EXCEPT when I went up the elevator - the named boss and the minions up there I had to defeat.
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I've seen this a couple of times today. It seems more common during/after the sewer bombing side mission, but I'm not sure.
Inside the sewer, it was 50/50 if attacking something would sent it flying away into the ether. Spawning Imps anywhere in the mission would have them vanish a few seconds later, and take a lot of damage afterwards.
After I left the mission, the Imps were generally screwy and often disappeared for a few minutes anywhere in the safeguard even after respawning a new set.
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Ive only done 3 of these missions, but Ive failed 2 of them. Mainly this is due to the fact that I have no idea what the proper order of events are. I would think running to the bank is the first thing to do, but even doing that by the time you get their the mobs are escaping, while other mobs are still robbing the bank.
Also I have yet to see an AV in these missions - dont you get Heroes Cov side if your difficulty is up higher??
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These just don't feel nearly as fun as mayhems. Malta and Carnies in the same mish. Yay, fun.
Stopping the bank heist was neat, but then...
Street sweep and wait for some mayhem, run over there and street sweep them...
Just not fun.
Shoulda went with a 'trash Arachnos neighborhood' retool of mayhems for heroes. This just isn't fun in this arrangement.
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Issue:
Malta (Sappers at least, then the rest once hit) seem to be seeing through Super Speed and Stealth on Peregrine Safeguard. This occured multiple times to multiple individuals with varying degrees of stealth running.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is true for the street groups in all the safeguard missions.
Although I enjoy the missions, it annoys me that concealment powers don't provide any benefit. As soon as you get in an enemy group's activation range, they aggro on you (as well as nearby objects). I don't mind the enemies attacking objects when you activate them, but they still shouldn't see you until you're in their concealment-adjusted aggro range.
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In all honesty, I'd call that broken, wouldn't you? If concealment powers don't conceal you from the enemy... then there's something inherently wrong. Invisibility, Stealth + Super Speed, */Devices' Cloaking Device... nothing worked on the mission I did last night with my friends.
Furthermore, the villian groups in the Safeguard missions were *ridiculously* hard, even on Heroic. The Malta were able to sap all of our end within 5 seconds of aggroing them (a feat not matched by anything I'd ever seen before) and the Gunslinger bosses suddenly had hold powers. I went through my standard complement of 7 break frees in the first 2 fights alone (I didn't have any left to fight the villain at the bank), making the rest of the mission a COMPLETE debt fest. Thank God I was only trying this on my 50... otherwise, I would have been through the roof about how difficult it was. And that's to say nothing about the Carnies on the side missions. Holy crap!
I understand that these missions are supposed to be a challenge, but I'd say it's way too difficult for a Heroic setting. And I didn't even check to see if I was getting any credit toward the new badges because I'd already heard there was something screwy about it and didn't want to get further discouraged. I'd say there's still a few kinks to be worked out of the system.
And yeah, it was fast-paced and frenetic action... but when you attack a mob that can hit you through Force of Nature AND the Eye of the Magus accolade power COMBINED, there's something seriously wrong.
Not to cramp on folks...but if they added a "Heroes trash lower-class third-world neighborhood mission!"...most of my heroes wouldn't be able to participate on moral grounds. 
There's a reason why Mayhem's and Safeguard's feel differently.
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Just pick a reason why some cars, mailboxes, and parking meters need to be destroyed for the most idealistically morally upright cause, and give us Hero Mayhem destruction.
Destroy the mad scientists' lab before he launches the destructo-missile, maybe?
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Well, I just tried my first SGM a few minutes ago, and I had some questions. I got into the mission, flew straight to the bank, and saw the "The Bank is Being Robbed" text. I ate a bunch of defense and resists, then charged in and defeated *everyone.* Immediately kicked to a big "mission failed." I thought that saving the bank started the clock? And...assuming that someone somehow escaped--don't they show up on the map or something? Running to a car? There was nothing. Just...save bank, fail mission.
Has anyone else experienced this, or is it just me?
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Destroy the drug lab
destroy the evil robot factory
destroy the scrap before the clockwork get it
destroy the magical artifact before the CoT get it
destroy th ecrey cloning lab
destroy the illegal arms convoy
demolish the unsafe building
You can come up tons of instances where mayhem-type destruction woudl be done for a "good" purpose...
This thread is for discussion involving Issue 8 Safeguard Missions
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Issue 8 Patch Notes
Safeguard missions allow the Hero player to enter a large outdoor mission map and defend the city from invading villains. The goal is to defeat the Villain behind the attack, preventing a bank robbery, but there are lots of other things going on, too. Safeguard missions are set up for single players and teams.
Safeguard missions will issue a door in the zone the player is in when mission is accepted (i.e Kings Row Safeguard mission will lead the player to the Kings Row PPD truck door).
When you enter the instance, the bank is immediately being robbed. Dont delay in getting to the bank, or the crooks could get away with the cash, failing the mission.
A 15 minute timer starts once the bank heist has been stopped and the mission is completed. At this point you can use the given time to secure the map, explore and fight for additional badges and rewards. This allows the players to end the mission quickly, or hunt for additional XP and rewards if they choose.
There are several goals and multiple side missions that can be unlocked and played once the bank robbery has been thwarted. Completing any section of goals or each side mission rewards the players with a special bonus (such as extra XP, temp powers, or unique salvage) and will add some time back to the counter. The more they complete the longer they have to try and complete more goals, so the better they do the higher their rewards.
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