Official Thread: Safeguard Missions
By
1tonweasel,
Posted on: 2006-11-14 21:05 in Developers' Corner
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Not to cramp on folks...but if they added a "Heroes trash lower-class third-world neighborhood mission!"...most of my heroes wouldn't be able to participate on moral grounds. 
There's a reason why Mayhem's and Safeguard's feel differently.
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I've said this before and I'll repeat it here because it is relevant There are many ideas that can have heroes trash stuff that is not destroy some third world country and they would be fun too.
Examples
1. Break into a holdout base and destroy enemy objective x before it can be used for nefarious purposes.
<ul type="square"> objective x[*]CoT are putting together some ancient artifact weapon. Knock it to peices and store parts for safekeeping. [*]Dr Vhaz's newest surgeon has a new machine for cranking out zombies at 10x the rate. Go in and smash it up and destroy the plans. [*]The Carnival of Shadows has found a new formula for making even more powerfull Porcelan Masks. Destroy the prototype formula [*]Skullz r makin more drugzz. Destroy the drug machines [/list]
2. Arson! Save the people!
Enter a burning building and smash through walls/doors/ceilings/floors to save people. Use temporary fire extinguisher powers to clear paths through the flames. Bonus points: save little janie's teddy bear.
These are just sample ideas. Most of the maps for these already exist and would just need to be placed or small sections cut out and reused. Imagine the CoT one being a small orenbega room or two and hallway. Vhaz would be that sewer lab map etc..
This lets heroes destroy with no remorse.
Djeannie's Costume Creator Overhaul Wishlist
Carnie Base
"Once the avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote" -Kosh
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MAJOR PROBLEM: how in blue blazes was I supposed to know to defeat Ring Mistress spawns? Did I glom over that in the mission description? Was I supposed to just start clearing the entire board and figure it out eventually?
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It's not really that hard to figure out, Mayhem missions have the same setup; the enemy groups with keys are a type of enemy different from all the generic mob spawns on the map. If all of the generic mobs around are Clockwork, and you run into a Council mob, it's got a key. It's usually the same enemy type as the bank robbers and vandals, the only difference is they're not robbing the bank or vandalizing anything.
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Does anyone know if the lowbie Safeguards have fewer side-missions, or am I missing something?
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Yes, lower lv mishes have less side missions.
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Killing, excuse me, *defeating* random bad guy spawns on the streets didn't add to my timer, so I quickly ignored those. Perhaps I should get 30 seconds for each one so it's worth it to me to be defeating them.
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That's GENIUS. Why the hell didn't they make it that way in the bloody first place? Mayhem missions are about wreaking havok, so all havok you wreak earns you time. Beating up generic mobs on the streets (PPD) counts as havok, so it earns you time. Safeguard missions are about preventing havok, so ALL instances of preventing havok should earn you time, including defeating generic spawns.
I personally heve never had any problem with stopping the bank robbery itself. With my L14 blaster I ran in, took out the robber mobs inside, then caught the villain still trying to blow the vault. Took him out easy.
My L35 tanker gto an even bigger head start, ran into the bank and caught the boss still in the lobby, having not even reached the vault yet. Easy pickings.
Other than those obvious problems mentioned, such as the mob issue, and the issue with the timers, the only real thing I have a major problem with is the Vandals- I find it kind of annoying that I have to immediately drop what I'm doing to go fight a group of enemies elsewhere, under penalty of losing time if I don't. This is especially a problem when what I am doing happens to be a timed side mission- having to leave and come back takes time I don't have. OF course I've always gotten to the vandals right away, so I don't know how much time you really have before you get penalized...
Two wrongs don't make a right. However, three rights make a left.
L00k, w3'r3 r3f0rmed! W3'v3 g0t l1v3s n0w, 4nd 1'm 4 buz1n3ss Pwnz0r! -Reformed Freak Proprieter
Seek. Find. Rularuu.
Target. Destroy. Rularuu.
Go. Hunt. Kill Skuls. Rularuu.
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Well, I just tried my first SGM a few minutes ago, and I had some questions. I got into the mission, flew straight to the bank, and saw the "The Bank is Being Robbed" text. I ate a bunch of defense and resists, then charged in and defeated *everyone.* Immediately kicked to a big "mission failed." I thought that saving the bank started the clock? And...assuming that someone somehow escaped--don't they show up on the map or something? Running to a car? There was nothing. Just...save bank, fail mission.
Has anyone else experienced this, or is it just me?
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What most likely happened is a peon slipped by you and got to the getaway vehicle. Some of them run and jump out the side windows in the inside of the bank and are easy to miss.
Djeannie's Costume Creator Overhaul Wishlist
Carnie Base
"Once the avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote" -Kosh
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Should work better than getting ransacked by a group of Arachnos Scouts (who I incidentally mud-stomped) and wailing away on the robber while an itsy-bitsy spider runs off with the rest of the loot. The fact that if even one of them gets away the mission is a bsut is a bit of a let-down.
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Though I haven't yet had the (dis)pleasure of running a safeguard mission yet, the requirement of defeating every single guy beofre they escape is quite daunting. I am still bitter at repeatedly failing the Croatoa mish "prevent 30 Fir Bolg from entering the gate". You know the mish I'm talking about? The one that's impossible unless you have serious crowd control ability?
So has anyone figured out how to minimize the # of guys trying to flee the bank, while also minimizing simultaneous ambushes?
Edited for clarity & accuracy
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The higher level you get the faster the boss can trash the safe and then its all "stop the peons and boss from fleeing".
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I think the safes need to scale up in level, so an AV faces a slightly more challenging safe inside the bank.
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All side missions will be keyed by the same villain type as did the robbery.
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Great list all in all, but this point isn't 100% true. For the lower level ones it definitely is. Not sure about the intermediate ones, but in the PI Safeguard, the bankrobbers are Arachnos, yet the Vandals and Side Mission spawns are Carnies.
As for the person who wondered how to spot Side Mission spawns... well, usually they're doing something unusual and also have text when you get close enough. Arsonists will be carrying a torch, Bombers will be moving a barrel bomb around and talk about chemicals, Jailbreak spawns will be holding up a police officer, Robbers will be standing guard outside a store, similar to the Weapons Deal. The latter two are admittedly harder to spot, though.
"If you're going through hell, keep going."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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When you get the vandals are trashing the city , if you're quick you can actually arrive well in advance of them. best to wait for them or get some altitude to see where they're coming from and intercept them.
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Really?!? That's very confusing then. If the message is "Vandals are trashing the city" I assumed they were already there and I had best get there quickly.
If the Vandals have not yet arrived, I can see two problems:
<ul type="square">[*]The police dispatcher knows where the Vandals will be attacking (either they know the future or are on the take), and,[*]If I have to wait a minute for a spawn that only gives me an extra 90 seconds on my mission timer, what's the point?[/list]
Ah well. I have great faith that the Devs will have this all resolved quickly. The problems with this publish are minuscule compared to those I've experienced on other MMOs. (For example, publish day on Star Wars: Galaxies generally broken more features broken than added.)
-Buxley
"Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened." -- Dr. Seuss
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I think the safes need to scale up in level, so an AV faces a slightly more challenging safe inside the bank.
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This is untrue in my experience. When I faced Barracuda, the bank vault was busted open before the entire team had even finished zoning in. Whereas versus a normal villian in a different version of the same mission didn't get through it until we'd reached the bank's outer doors. The AV broke through the vault significantly faster.
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I think the safes need to scale up in level, so an AV faces a slightly more challenging safe inside the bank.
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This is untrue in my experience. When I faced Barracuda, the bank vault was busted open before the entire team had even finished zoning in. Whereas versus a normal villian in a different version of the same mission didn't get through it until we'd reached the bank's outer doors. The AV broke through the vault significantly faster.
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I believe you misunderstood MadScientist - he is saying that the vault doors need to scale up, not that they do. MadScientist wants it so the AV will have to take longer to take down the door, unlike currently where the AV can sneeze and bring the door down. (I bolded the key word in the post you quoted)
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Having done Mayhems on the V side, I was very much looking forward to Safeguards in H. Unfortunately I find them quite disappointing.
Archetype: Earth/Storm controller
Level: 44.
Safeguard Mission: Founder' Falls, Difficulty: Rugged
ATs with (relatively) low damage output are at an extreme disadvantage when attempting Safeguards solo.
The frequency of Vandals spawning coupled with the low damage out put makes it extrordinarily difficult to be able to have time to find the key villain groups, defeat that mob and it's boss, get the key get to the side mission, beat that and it's boss all the while losing time to vandal on the streets above that you can't do anything about because you're trying to complete a side mission.
Frustrating to say the least.
As far as I could tell, I was not getting a time bump for defeating the villains standing about in the streets the way you get 30 seconds for every PPD you defeat in Mayhems.
If the amount of time given at the start of the mission isn't bumped up, then there needs to be some way other than defeating Vandals to pile up time or, the amount of time vandals chew up/spawn rate of vandals needs to be turned down.
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Vandals no longer chew up time. They are only good for a small time bonus for defeating them. The lack of gaining time from street spawns is irksome and was suggested that they give time. If they gave time then the loss of time for not defeating vandals would even out, if done right...that is when vandals actually took time away.
Djeannie's Costume Creator Overhaul Wishlist
Carnie Base
"Once the avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote" -Kosh
Just won the Steel Canyon map with a 24 TA/A Defender. Cleared Weapons Deal, Breakout and Store Robbery sides; didn't die once.
Granted, this was on Heroic. But TA/A is one of the weakest combos in the game. So I really don't see how people can be having these horrible problems.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
FYI
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From: _Castle_
Critters in SG missions have increased perception.
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PMd him and the above was the reply. It's as official as it gets there in regards to mobs seeing through things like Stealth, SS+ Stealth, Invis etc..
@PlasmaStream
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PI mission. Solo. Rugged Left with 8:17 on the clock after clearing all 5 side missions. What a rush!. I ahd to chew all sorts of insps i wouldnt normally.
The mlat/Carnie combination is rough generally, (as has been commented before) - one issue I have is with the DRM's Mask of vitation. The -regen -recovery is nasty in an enclosed space where the squishier folks cannot trade space for time.
Maybe have a new boss type siimilar to a DRM that summons fluffy instead of the mask ?
3 slots in stamina 3 in Quick recovery and running only intergration (dropped my leadership pools) and I STILL had to to chew blues each time I fought one if they got the mask on me. (thank ranged knockdown for the ones that didn't)
Much harder than Mayhems, much more hectic, but very fun in adifferent way.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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PI mission. Solo. Rugged Left with 8:17 on the clock after clearing all 5 side missions. What a rush!. I ahd to chew all sorts of insps i wouldnt normally.
The mlat/Carnie combination is rough generally, (as has been commented before) - one issue I have is with the DRM's Mask of vitation. The -regen -recovery is nasty in an enclosed space where the squishier folks cannot trade space for time.
Maybe have a new boss type siimilar to a DRM that summons fluffy instead of the mask ?
3 slots in stamina 3 in Quick recovery and running only intergration (dropped my leadership pools) and I STILL had to to chew blues each time I fought one if they got the mask on me. (thank ranged knockdown for the ones that didn't)
Much harder than Mayhems, much more hectic, but very fun in adifferent way.
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/agree. I like the PI SG the way that it is honestly. So much end draining. It adds in the one thing my build never worried about. It's making me seriously consider Dark Mastery.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Just did a few more of these.
I agree strongly with the idea that vaults should scale up in strength vs. higher level AVs.
"Higher perception" enemies are "less fun" enemies.
These feel much less "free" in comparison to mayhems. True, in life it's easier to destroy than to protect/build, but it so happens it's also less fun. These feel more like work.
I can hear someone all ready to lecture on the morality of heroes committing acts of mayhem, but save it. We play a game where we 'defeat' bad guys with swords, axes, fire, nukes, etc... we've been outside morality for a while now.
Blowing things up = more fun than running to a waypoint, waiting for the vandals to arrive there, and then 'defeating' the living hell out of them.
Someone above mentioned the 'Stop 30 Fir Bolgs from entering door' mish. It's among the most tedious mishes in the game. It's famous for being a pain. I'm sure there's people that just cant wait for it, but some people like Celine Dion, too.
Safeguard Mishes feel like several mini versions of the Stop 30 Fir Bolg mish overlayed onto one map.
I wanted to love these, but they need some re-thinking.
These just feel like they were thrown together:
--Map bugs in the sewer/office mish (which is an amazing idea, great work on that one)
--Arriving before vandals do at a waypoint
--Waypoints that don't disappear
--One minion escaping means total failure
--Lack of accurate directions on what you should be doing
--Lack of timers for side missions
--Added mob perception feels like it was tacked on to bandaid some other problem that couldn't be fixed properly.
I have done the PI safeguard mish 3 times in the last 24 hours. I have notcied the following bug with the stop the breakout sidemish. Everytime I go in if I lose one of the carnie minions if my camera pans away from her, she disappers and I am not able to save the police officer there. This is the first spawn of them. I am usually able to get the other two officers freed but they, like the carnie minion disappear on me. I go up the elevator to the holding cells and clear that out and the cops FINALLY come in. Two seconds later they run into wal and disappear again. Though whenever I exit the building and go into another side mission they come in but do not move. They just stay at the door doing nothing. They will exit the sidemission when I do but will not follow me as well. This is the only map that this happens to me on.
Shadowy Presence - Absolutely, positively worse than playing a Kheldian... --Myrmydon
I have now done 3 safegaurd missions. Failed 2. The reason being is that I can not stop the 6 minions from getting away, pluss the boss. Its not that I cant beat them now ( I lowered the difficulty) I just dont have enough time to catch them.
Now, If you think I have enough time to catch them, and I am doing something wrong, please let me know. I also think that if you keep the difficulty the same as it is now, you should increase the reward. 41,000 influ, just isnt enough. If you get temp powers, I wouldnt know, since I only completed one...
hire teammates
My big question... My lvl nine has completed two safeguards with teams, successfully. As a result, she got Two temporary travel powers, a raptor pack and a zero G backpack.
My question (which i searched for and it led me here) is how long do these temp powers last? 24 hours game time? two weeks real time?
Anybody got an idea?
read the info on them they have a timer and last untill used.
Shadowy Presence - Absolutely, positively worse than playing a Kheldian... --Myrmydon
Right click on the power in you bar - is has a timer of how logn it has left in its info.
IIRC one is 2 hours and the other was 1 hour.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Well, our little three-squid team just did a SGM. Talos Island bank (from bricks, lvl 30-35.)
The bank robbery itself... cake. The other missions?
- Arson. Not my SGM, I lost the bomb count somewhere along the way, so I had no idea if we'd gotten them all or not. We didn't.
- Breakout. For-get-it. Four Tsoo bosses, ton of Blue Ink Men. Health goes Green-Red-Black. *NOT* fun.
We had one or two others that were ok... but how about *dropping* the number of Blue Ink Men in favor of some other Tsoo types? All three Khelds were triformers, so we had a slight advantage in that, as our powers were recharging more slowly,w e could go to another form to fight (as well as my Extractions helping out.) I couldn't see dealing with having that many siphons (power and speed) on a regular AT. Seeing the ONE Eagle Enforcer in the Arson mission was a pleasant surprise. other than that, all spawns were
- At least 1 boss, possibly 2
- Ancestor Spirits
- some Sorcs
- Boss.
... My characters, for the most part, are going to hit the bank the first time and leave, I think. Then skip them.
Issue: The "Stop sewer bombing" side mission in the Brickstown safeguard mission is one big screwjob. The mission entrance is on the other end of the map from where you get the key, it's near another mob that ALSO gives a key for a different side mission, the Sewer entrance is in an underground parking lot that requires you to know where the entrance is to it elsewhere on the map, and the underground tunnel leads into a confusing office map that makes it much harder to find the last couple of bombs to disarm then it should be.
When you take into account the six minute timer AND the occasional "vandal!" messages that pop up, it's feels extremely unfair.
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Well, our little three-squid team just did a SGM. Talos Island bank (from bricks, lvl 30-35.)
The bank robbery itself... cake. The other missions?
- Arson. Not my SGM, I lost the bomb count somewhere along the way, so I had no idea if we'd gotten them all or not. We didn't.
- Breakout. For-get-it. Four Tsoo bosses, ton of Blue Ink Men. Health goes Green-Red-Black. *NOT* fun.
We had one or two others that were ok... but how about *dropping* the number of Blue Ink Men in favor of some other Tsoo types? All three Khelds were triformers, so we had a slight advantage in that, as our powers were recharging more slowly,w e could go to another form to fight (as well as my Extractions helping out.) I couldn't see dealing with having that many siphons (power and speed) on a regular AT. Seeing the ONE Eagle Enforcer in the Arson mission was a pleasant surprise. other than that, all spawns were
- At least 1 boss, possibly 2
- Ancestor Spirits
- some Sorcs
- Boss.
... My characters, for the most part, are going to hit the bank the first time and leave, I think. Then skip them.
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This was my SGM. And this is a trio that burns through missions with ease. Two tri-form PBs with their ally heal and Bill's tri-form WS and his fluffy extracts.
Awful awful awful awful. Worst thing I've ever done in this game. Aggravation on par with Mito clearing at a Hami Raid on a squishy and being a favorite target. Actually... worse that that. I've never been so frustrated and disgusted.
The map was a sea of Blue Ink Men. I had so many Siphon Power and Siphon Speed debuffs on me that I would get off each attack for maybe 5 damage and then die because my heals wouldn't recharge and I couldn't get away. That jail break... Even with Essence Boost upping my HP *AND* three-slotted with resistance SO Dwarf, I could barely get a few attacks off before I was dead.
Arachnos, no problem whatsoever.
Please, for the love of $deity, fix the bloody Tsoo spawns.
I will not be doing another Talos SGM other than to quick do the bank mission and grab the exploration badge. Horrid horrid horrid, and damn near unacceptable. I would have hated to run that SGM with regular ATs. I can't even begin to imagine how much that would have stunk.
"A good Defender is the battle hardened Corpsman who will kill a Nazi with a tongue depressor while putting a splint on your leg, then hand you a fresh clip of ammo." ~Jock_Thompson
Repeat Offenders, TNT Profile, My little hero
I've been on two so far, the first two on my lowbie empath, and our team enjoyed them both. Not quite as much fun as mayhem missions, but the chaoticness of it (if you choose to do it that way) is usually pretty fun.
The one thing I see alot and don't like is how if one robber escapes you lose the mission. I understand if the boss escapes you should lose the mission, but if his minion escapes, you should only be penalized. I don't know if it is possible to scale the reward and bonus time down for each accompanied minion that escapes instead of just failing the mission.
The stealth issue is also annoying, but did not bother me yet. When I play my 50 blaster I'm sure it will bother me then, and hope it can be adjusted properly.
All in all though, they are good and I'm glad they are on hero side :-D