Official Thread: Safeguard Missions
By
1tonweasel,
Posted on: 2006-11-14 21:05 in Developers' Corner
I probably had the least fun playing a safeguard mission today. As an empath that does not attack, I have stealth and superspeed. Between the long aggro range attacking through stealth, and tanks not being able to hold aggro very well, this was just rediculous. It's actually the closest I have been to quitting the game. Funny how some little things can make the mission just outright horrible.
Liked fighting Ice Mistral. Like the side missions. Didn't like the groups far far away just attacking my stealthed dedicated empath for no reason. Or hit me with a hold when I am jumping far far above them, dropping me down into a group where I immediately die. I don't mind dying. I played a fire blaster, but if I'm gonna die, I want it to be for a good reason...
Far as I can see, it boils down to the following complaints that NEED addressing:
1) Aggro range. Random street goons can aggro from miles away and see through stealth, super speed... everything. Makes traversing the zones a veritable nightmare.
2) The bank robbery begins the MOMENT the first person loads the zone, whether his team is ready or not. That means fast loaders typically have to rush to the bank and slow the villain down while the rest of his team loads. This splits the team up and demolishes any semblance of strategy.
My fix to make these more fun:
1) The zone is EMPTY when you first arrive, and the bank robbery doesn't start until every team member is ON THE MAP. However, to rpevent people from exploiting, the bank is locked until every teammate is on the map and the robbery begins.
2) After the team defeats the villains, THEN enemies start spawning in the streets.
3) These enemies have NORMAL aggro range and NORMAL perception.
Badda-bing, badda-boom.
Actually your 2) is not the case.
The robbery starts after ~5 mins OR when you got within a distance of the bank.
Steel Canyon IIRC can be triggered if you have impatient quick zoners as you come in REAL close.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
I beg to differ. On a three man team, I loaded the zone first, and waited right by the entrance for my teammates to zone in. The bank robbery began anyway.
Edit: Accepting the possibility I'm wrong, that doesn't change the fact that navigating the zone is torture, and setting it so the robbery doesn't start until all teammates are on the map is STILL preferable, so that new players, or poeple who don't have printouts on the missions scripts for the game, aren't finding themselves on these horrid, disastrous safeguards.
Odd. Even with my dramatic failure stats, I've never experienced that before. What map was this on? How big was your team? Did anyone move from the zone-in area before the rest of the team had arrived? How long did you have to wait for your teammates?
In my experience, you have a few minutes before the bank robbery starts. And then you fail it. 
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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The hero always shows up after the looting, they're just being consistent.
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But in a Mayhem Mission the hero doesn't have to fight through a series of villains to get to player villain. He/She just has to get from the entrance to the vault or wherever the player villain is located.
Also, in a Mayhem, the player villain HAS to defeat the hero in order to win the mission. In a Safeguard, the villain doesn't have to stick around to defeat the player hero. Therefore, the villain in the Safeguard needs to take more time opening the vault OR the vault opens when the player hero is within about 25 feet of the vault.
[/ QUOTE ]Exactly. Unless you are standing nearby watching them, the villains cut right through that vault door. Either their damage way outclasses anything a hero has access to until later levels or that vault door is not so surprisingly given much less hit points than that which villains face in mayhems.
The biggest missing element for heroes is there is no non-character items to attack as there is on the villian missions.
Why not add liter, chemicals, drug boxes, fires, explosives, and other items scattered all around the area for the Hero to destroy and clean up the city as well as save it.
This will give the Heroes the same feel as getting to destroy non-character items for XP like Villians, as well as saving and cleaning up the city at the same time.
I had a bizarre occurence with a Safeguard and I didn't see this item listed in Safeguard posts.
Here's your question: Has anybody tried to go on a Safeguard Mission but ended up on a different Safeguard map?
I was doing my first Safeguard in KR w/ a level 10 tank and when I jumped in the Paddy Wagon I arrived in KINGS ROW.
I wasn't stopping the bank robbery in AP like I thought, I was stopping a bank robbery in KR!
The mission was scaled properly (everything CONed white or yellow) so I didn't bug it. It occured to me afterwards that this seemed wrong. Don't all Safeguards take you to a different zone than the zone that you received the mission in?
Has this happened to anyone else or am I just "special"?
"I used to make diddly squat, but I've been with the company for 16 years and have had plenty of great raises. Now I just make squat" -- Me
Pediatric brain tumors are the #1 cause of cancer related deaths in children.
At level 10, the Safeguard missions start taking place in Kings Row, so what you experienced was normal (unless the mission you accepted specifically said you'd be protecting the Atlas Park bank).
Safeguards will generally deposit you in the same zone you took them in.
(Begins rant)
I'm soloing a 14 Scrapper on a KR Safeguard set on Heroic that I got from Skyway. I've done (and failed) enough of these to know how to tackle this. Go straight to bank, find elevator to 2nd floor and take out boss & helper before they blow the safe. I get to the bank, get the message the bank is being robbed, run/leap past all of the looters in the bank and head straight to the vators. when I get to the 2nd floor I get the message that the looters are getting away. It was physically (game-physics?) impossible for me to get up to the vault any faster, yet even as I fought (and beat) that lovely pyromaniac lady and her looter friend I knew I was going to fail the mission.
I told myself I wouldn't get angry. It's just a game. But I truly don't know what I could have done to get to the vault any faster, and I'm PO'd. It just seems broken to me. It certainly isn't fun.
(Ends rant)
I really like the police band missions, and I appreciate the extra content. However, I feel like work needs to be done to fix the Safeguard missions. I'm not asking to lessen the challenge of the boss battle, and I think the timing aspect is a fine idea. But it seems to be broken.
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At level 10, the Safeguard missions start taking place in Kings Row, so what you experienced was normal (unless the mission you accepted specifically said you'd be protecting the Atlas Park bank).
Safeguards will generally deposit you in the same zone you took them in.
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Really? I never had a safeguard drop me in the same zone in which I took it. Not a single time. But I've only run about 8-10 safeguards - from characters leveled 7 up to 46, just not many of them. Maybe I've just had a bad streak with the PRNG.
RagManX
"if the market were religion Fulmens would be Moses and you'd be L. Ron Hubbard. " --Nethergoat to eryq2
The economy is not broken. The players are
On the 0/5 levels (10, 15, etc) you have a chance to do either the lower Safeguard or the higher Safeguard.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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(Begins rant)
Go straight to bank, find elevator to 2nd floor and take out boss & helper before they blow the safe. I get to the bank, get the message the bank is being robbed, run/leap past all of the looters in the bank and head straight to the vators. when I get to the 2nd floor I get the message that the looters are getting away. It was physically (game-physics?) impossible for me to get up to the vault any faster, yet even as I fought (and beat) that lovely pyromaniac lady and her looter friend I knew I was going to fail the mission.
(Ends rant)
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Sometimes when I slam into a wall and can't figure out why things are so messed up, it helps to remmber that *I* might be missing something. Even though that something might not be that obvious.
You have to stop the looters on the bottom floor as well. I'm not sure if it includes every, single, last, one, or just the one that's carrying around money bags, but there is definately at least one that you have to stop on the first floor.
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At level 10, the Safeguard missions start taking place in Kings Row, so what you experienced was normal (unless the mission you accepted specifically said you'd be protecting the Atlas Park bank).
Safeguards will generally deposit you in the same zone you took them in.
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Really? I never had a safeguard drop me in the same zone in which I took it. Not a single time. But I've only run about 8-10 safeguards - from characters leveled 7 up to 46, just not many of them. Maybe I've just had a bad streak with the PRNG.
RagManX
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No, I goofed up by describing a different aspect of safeguards, namely how the SWAT van you enter is typically in the zone where you pick up the safeguard mission, but the mission instance may be set elsewhere. For example, tonight I ran one with a PuG. The SWAT van was in PI but the safeguard mission was actually in Founders' Falls. On the test server, you often had to cross zones just to get to the SWAT van.
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On the 0/5 levels (10, 15, etc) you have a chance to do either the lower Safeguard or the higher Safeguard.
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Also true. I'm not sure when/how the game will give you one over the other.
50% chance. Random.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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That's absolutely true, Kung Pow. However, if you stop the vault from being robbed then you have time to clear the rest of the bank. I made a beeline to the vault, but by the time I reached it I got the message that it had already been robbed.
The time limit to get to the vault should not be shorter than the time it actually took me to get to the vault since I ran/leapt there without stopping. I don't know if it was load times to enter the bank and elevator, but if it was then that makes it worse. Am I the only one who has experienced this?
And I have beaten a couple of Safeguards, so I know how it's done. If anyone sees something I'm missing, let me know.
Whether the notification comes up that it's actually been robbed or not is no big deal. As long as you defeat the robbers before they get to their escape vehicle, you're good to go.
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City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Whether the notification comes up that it's actually been robbed or not is no big deal. As long as you defeat the robbers before they get to their escape vehicle, you're good to go.
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What Martavius_ said. I'm not sure about actually stopping the vault from being robbed but as long as you "arrest" all the bad guys that have money bags you're all good. The ones you have to take out are all named e.g. "Looter Hellion Smasher" or whatever their actual names are.
Take all those out and mish complete 
GOD bless,
Shem
Granted, twenty pages in, I may be late to this particular game, but I've done a few safeguards now and have a few things to report.
Yesterday as the PUG I was in opted to choose the safeguard mission I'd tripped one level before (and until now no one wanted to do it), one person on the group strongly objected to us doing it, and left the group once the decision was final, saying "safeguards are inherently flawed and on principle I refuse to participate. Good day!" I thought that was rather rude, but to be honest, most of the others were going along with it reluctantly.
I've been on a few and with mixed success, so I wasn't all that keen on it myself. It's always pulse-popping and lots of fun, but also lots of debt and not a whole lot of xp or inf to show for it, at least not compared to what one has to do in the course of it.
So it's the Steel Canyon one - got it while dorking around in Faultline. We go in and head straight for the bank. By the time we get there the spider baddies are already getting away. I mean, we made a bee line for the bank. We didn't dawdle, but we barely caught them at the front lobby, and the woman who was their leader behaved like some kinda AV. Uber tough to take down. So that's over. Fifteen minutes on the clock. First off, why even have a timer? Seems an artificial way to keep the pressure on. I don't like it. Makes no sense.
Most of the baddies outside appear to be Tsoo, although there's Family and Arachnos in the mix too. Now I've been led to understand we're supposed to look for one kind of baddies to get the keys that unlock side missions. Since the ones in the bank were Arachnos, I'm thinking we take out Tsoo we'll get the keys, but it was Family, which made no sense. Yes I read the narrative that preceded the whole thing, but it seemed again like this was done to purposefully create complexity and tension, while not making any sense whatsoever. Why are these seemingly opposing forces even working together to cause mayhem? Why are The Family even messing around with explosives? This is so not their method of operations. It'd be like if the Tsoo suddenly dropped their blades and throwing stars and attacked us with quantum guns for no explanation.
So we get a couple of the side missions but someone in the group keeps yelling about finding the jail break and I don't know what he's talking about. I wanted to find the badge, cuz I figure in the life of this toon I'm never doing a Steel Canyon safeguard again. Someone on the team figures out where it is, we all go there. To be honest there was a lot of madcap comedy and mayhem not unlike those old Keystone Cops silent films, mixed in with some serious battles with some Tsoo guy named Death Moon or something. Green guy in ninja outfit. My speedster now has a vendetta against that guy that only rivals his dislike for Arbiter.
So we take out pretty much every mob on the streets. We're running around the map still trying to figure out where that last key is. We're out of mobs to take down, and the timer's still going but nothing is telling us if we've missed something or if it's over. The end result is very anticlimactic. We just bowed out with minutes left on the clock, more out of boredom than anything else.
Now I've never gone into CoV beyond BreakOut cuz the whole concept bores me. However, I've been led to assume these safeguards are based off mayhem missions that work much better over on the CoV side, cuz with villains you can destroy stuff. On the CoH side we gotta protect stuff from being destroyed. So it's not quite the same thing. I'm thinking the Safeguards need to be redesigned, to better equate to the genre source material of great teamup comics.
First off, the bank heist pretty much works the way it is, only you should arrive from the police van right next to the bank. None of this artificial parking on one side of the map so the gang has to run or fly to the other side of the map. This would also make near the bank entrance the triage where you get hosp'd. So after the bank heist is thwarted, that becomes the hero base of operations. If things get hairy you can tell the team to meet back at the bank and regroup. One central location to coordinate from would make things less hectic. Aside from that the bank part should stay the way it is, including the timer.
Now from this point there should be TWO things that have to be taken care of simultaneously. Two of these side missions would automatically activate when the bank heist is thwarted. The heroes learn from the robbers that two other groups were doing stuff and the bank heist was a ruse to insure the other things go off without a hitch. So the bad guys are taunting us as they're arrested that the good guys will never stop them and all that. This means the team HAS to split up to accomplish these two goals at the same time, just like in most comic books where teams of heroes work together; they always end up splitting up. So they can still communicate via the team chat, but if it's a group of four heroes, two go off and do X and two go off and do Y. If neither half team is successful no pts. If one team succeeds but the other doesn't, everyone gets half the experience they woulda gotten if both sides succeed. The whole team can stay together of course and only do one of the two side missions, if they don't think they can accomplish both separated, OR if they think they can pull off both side missions in the time alotted.
If both side missions are failures, that's it. Safeguard's done and everyone is kicked out. If one of the two Safeguards succeeds but the other fails, the team isn't kicked out.
You can still do the "vandals causing mayhem" thing but not with the timed crud. The objective is to simply bring peace to the streets by apprehending as many bad mobs as possible, and this goes on for about five or ten minutes but isn't necessarily timed cuz that's just silly. You just did the timer thing with the bank heist and the side missions. Turn the timer off. If they wanna stay in there, it ain't hurting anybody.
If both side missions are accomplished, what that means is the team deserves to end with a climactic big finish. There's one big thing that happens on the map that requires everyone's attention. The equivalent of a Giant Monster. Regardless where you are on the map, something should herald in the coming of a big event on the map that all the heroes need to stop. Either a natural disaster, or a GM as I said before, or all the remaining mobs dropping whatever their doing and converging on one spot and the end result is something akin to the Troll Raves in Sky. Just all kindsa mayhem and chaos that the heroes have to stop. Whatever it is, succeeding or failing at this should definitely bring about a rousing finale - so everyone knows its over.
Cuz we're not a retread of the villains side. You can't just make a mayhem mission and then go, "hey this should work on the heroes side too" cuz it won't. On the heroes side, we're not about just destruction and chaos. Heroes are about bringing an end to chaos and destruction and replacing it with order and rebirth and hope. The safeguard missions are ultimately empty and devoid of meaning, because there is no common goal beyond finding the badge and looking for keys to side missions, which isn't particularly heroic.
I mean okay. You can do a safeguard and get some xp and have a pulsepounding time, but it's like eating a Snickers bar instead of an actual meal. Comparatively the plot arc in Faultline which I've recently been following gives this illusion that what the heroes are doing is significant. There's a history and a truth they are uncovering, and they're helping to thwart villain goals while saving innocent lives. That's a story. That's heroic. The safeguards are just random elements thrown together haphazardly with no real significance to them.
In that regard, I guess I'd have to reluctantly agree with that guy who left our team yesterday: safeguards are inherently flawed. I'll still do them. I like Snickers bars. I just wish there was more meat on these bones.
First off to ZachsMind I have to say that was a real good post. some of the concepts I deffinately agree with such as the ppd van being at the bank and learning about side missions from the robbers. it does make more sence that way.
(I encountered Lord Recluse in a Safety Gaurd mission robbing a bank, pure comedy to say the least that LR would come from his high throne in Grandville to rob a bank in Paragon but the story line concept of him being there just made no sence at all)
I dont think there should be multiple side mishes going on at the same time due to finding out info from the robbers. you should find out about a side mission with some clue and have to go use that clue to find the bad guys to get into the side mission. part of the fun is to "find" side missions, not be shown them.
having more than 1 side mission being automaticaly given to you would create all sorts of problems such as team blaming, AT segrigation when deciding to go do a SG mish, and the very bad idea of neccisary seporation of the team which every one whos played a while knows is almost always a bad idea not to pool all team resorces together. not to mention what a difficult concept this would be inherently for people soloing a SG mish (yes you can solo them, i have done so many times very successfully) not to mention the MANY SG mishes that have more than two side mishes out there, can you imagine having 4 side mishes apear similtaniously after the bank robbery and haveing 3 or less on the team?
I like the concept of destroying large deposits of trash or bio waste and other non street friendly items to help gain time as I to feel the loss of fun due to destroying stuff from mayhems
side note, how about a temp power just forSG mishes that gives you a cleaner sollution to spray at graffity for bonus time but they would be more speradicaly set.
as for the time after the bank is robbed? well lets think about this for a min... influence is not real money, its your "influance" you have over the people because of your abilities and deeds that get you free stuff. Influence is not real money but in a sence it is because of this even though the money isn't real just like in COV infamy, they fear you and so they give you stuff.
-what does this have to do with the time in a SG mission? well say you stopped the bank robbery, get rid of the time cause the crisis you got there for is over but there is still alot to do. instead of a timer (which should be there to show you how long it takes for them to get to the get away vehicle) then thier should be a citizen aproval meter of sorts which is esentualy the existing timer in mechanical terms but makes more sence that when the citizen aproval level of you goes down they kick you out of the zone in favor of some one else who can handle thier probs cause your just not up to it! as it stands right now though it just seems plain stupid that as heroes you have to leave a zone cause there are still problems you havent gotten to but time ran out? where do you have to be? washing your tights? I think it would be more fitting if when time runs out a signiture hero comes in and say somthing like "Good work men! You did your best, I'll take it from here!" and then your booted.
Bonnie and her bunny
Arc ID: 59406
The Trash Came Back
Arc ID: 350303
Safeguard Mission Run: Peregrine Island
So far there were two side missions where I'd run into the villains disappearing when attacked. The first being the sewer bombing and the second being the jailbreak, with the jailbreak being the worse.
1) Not only were the villains disappearing but pets and the Awakened would also disappear. I ended up running into the Awaken in the "Stop the Weapons Deal" side mission. I had three of the awaken show up when I was only able to successfully rescue one. They followed me around a little on the street map only to disappear again.
2) There are holes on the walls down in the cellblock where the villains can be knocked through the wall into a cell. Once in the cells the villains could attack me but I could not attack them.
The Malta's on the street seem to have a long aggro range, I would find my self being attacked by a target at snipe range as my snipe was building up, and stealth seems to be of little or no use. Invs seems to work just fine.
I add my name to this list of people who have done these flawed safeguards.
For being too high for a zone, we have to exemplar to a lower team but when there is absolutely no credit for badges in side missions, why bother.
Only got credit for two badges: Villain Disruptor & PPD Deputy
That means the other 4 are broken. Stupid if only one person on a team gets all the credit.
There should've been implemented the same auto-exemplaring for Safeguards as there is for PvP zones. Maybe then we'd all get credit.
Multiple side missions popping up at the same time is also ridiculous.
Enemy set to Invincible power while you are Heroic is crazy.
This stuff went thru the Testing Room virtually untested I can see. Too many flaws with it. 
Only thing everyone can get is the exploration badge. Other badges are bogus right now. Even in Mayhem missions, I was able to get progress on my badges.
And, with all these buggy bits, I still think they're too hard. 
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
Yes! Thank you!!!