kukido

Errm, not balance, but while you're working on blasters here's a request. Blue lightning field fixed to work like red, in that the annoying sound will fade to nothing shortly after turning on. Hmm, could you do this for ice sword as well? The tools and techniques are already in the engine.

Or, in the form of a question, could you do the above? Thanks

Some of this off memory, forgive please if specifics are wrong:

Objective:
Lightning field for heroes has crackling sound that loops forever. Villain side, it fades to silence relatively soon after activation.

Ice sword wind howling goes on for a long time after the attack

Subjective:
Looping sounds with higher volumes/sharper peaks are annoying to their owners, moreso to teammates. Err on the side of toning these down/ tapering them totally off. For contrast, the fire shield loops are *less* annoying. For what it's worth, I don't mind the twinkly thrum of energy melee.

Would be ecstatic if powers silenced in the the auction house. And turning off my sound for audio annoyances is nearly as welcome a solution as turning off my monitor for graphical annoyances.

Demons... tell you what... put those sound effects over the office PA for an hour or two. Get my point? That's what you're subjecting your customers to.

Hasten was too loud and awkward, and a very popular autocast. Same with the standard empathy aura (volume, not sound quality). Not sure if they've been toned down, but used to be pretty bad offenders.

Not a power but... the clippy-cloppy slippity-clickety heel sounds that were changed a few issues back are over the top tonally (crispness) and in volume. This was desired/necessary? Additionally, they seem a touch out of sync with animation visuals, only compounding the distraction. They command the presence of a single loud set of heels in an enclosed, quiet space. They're out of place out on a city sidewalk, for example. The old footfalls were *just* there... which seems perfect in retrospect.

Thanks for asking for our input!

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If they are still going to be orange then this change essentially did nothing for us players.


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Yes, for "us players" who cannot read, this fix does nothing.

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It wasnt the salvage found message that made players angry but more so the orange color making them think they really got rare salvage.

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Text of any color that said they got salvage lead players to believe, erroneously, that they got salvage. A fix that keeps the erroneous message from coming up at all and further correctly states what was received works quite well for most. Your mileage, obviously, varies.

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Force Bolt - Add a low percentage chance (10-20%) to disorient knockback resistant mobs. If Force Bolt can't knock back an AV, at least getting hit in the FACE with a Force Bolt, should have a CHANCE to stun them for a few seconds.

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About a 15% chance to stun an AV for a few seconds... every few seconds? Force bolt is really fast.

I personally don't care about repulsion field or bomb, and in a way like having two powers that seem more easy choices as being skippable. Efforts to make them more attractive seem fine, save where they cost us what is good with FF.
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Detention Field - It already work just fine for what it does, but what WOULD be nice is adding a type of "placate" effect to anyone that tries to attack the enemy that's Detained. My macro can only do so much to tell my dumber teammates to not attack it

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Dunno what to say. If after a few encounters with the power and being directly told what it is doing, as a game designer you have to allow teammates be stupid if they so choose. Then it starts to reflect on the person who decides to stick with a team that amazingly stupid. The Det Field graphic could be reworked to be more visually distinctive though (see sonic counterpart).

Force bubble I kind of like the tradeoffs it forces in play choices being very powerful and having a lot of drawbacks already. Getting back to "stupid," imagine the hypothetical bubbler that wants it up way too much for his own personal defense bonus?

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These changes are all for the Defender version of the set, I think the rest are fine as-is. I LIKE seeing a little more differentiation between the sets for different archetypes.

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Mmm, that does make it better. Still, imagine the devs would far rather have one version of each power, and the changes would end up forced onto controller FF as well. Can understand the desire for a more active style of play from the set, but if FF were really delved into I think we'd lose a LOT from the fire-and-forget side... and I'm quite worried about that personally.

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Can we now finally start a serious discussion on "tweaks" to the powerset?

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FF is more than fine. Please step away from the power set.

Yes, your idea of discussing it is fine and fair, but I really don't see anything coming from it that does more good than harm.

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They could accomplish this by bringing back the few million prestige bonus to the Test server.

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I don't see how being handed millions on Test arbitrarily is the same as having a copy of the same Prestige amount as your actual SG on your live server.
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While it's a seperate client to load, it's not keeping you any less social: you can't see tells in the base editor.

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On Test, you are not on live and cannot simply exit the base editor whenever you want for chat utility with those on the live server.
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Actually, for those with two computers or enough oomph to multi-window, you're allowed to be in test and production servers simultaneously, so you could play the "base editor mini-game" while waiting for the TF to start, badges, et cetra.

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What I'd like to see should not require having access to Test at all, much less the ability to run it simultaneously with live.

The entirely different animal you describe doesn't fit any of my wants. Is it something you want for yourself? Having Prestige to play around with on Test is a suggestion worth discussing, but it isn't my suggestion. I'd really rather not see any future improvements to bases come with the asterisk of (*on test server only) unless demonstrably necessary.

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Personal housing is certainly an interesting idea, but I don't see how it would address the elitism problem.

"Why can't I play with the 30 million Prestige in our SG base if I've been contributing to the SG?" becomes "Cool, I have an apartment to edit. You have an apartment to edit. Why can't I play with the 30 million Prestige in our SG base if I've been contributing to the SG?"

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I've been thinking along the lines of what Mad and Sleepy were talking about.

I had been adverse-to-meh about bases for a long time. This was forumulated back before the market, inf was tighter without a sugar daddy. Then you get recruited to a crummy SG whose only activity is to tell members "Remember to run in SG mode" and to have you plead for the inf you'd have gotten through normal play so you can get enhancements.

Anyhow, crummy is crummy, not the system's fault... exactly. But I think there are a lot of players in less than ideal SGs who aren't crazy about farming prestige so a couple of people can play the base editor mini-game. But, I eventually broke down and made my own small base and... of course discovered only then that it's fun and useful. But, prestige income is necessarily limited.

So how about this instead: Every member of the SG gets and identical amount of extra-dimensional personal Prestige while a member of the SG. He gets to make his own extra-dimensional (personal/ non-existant) base with that Prestige.

Only he can edit this base. It is entirely non-functional. For example, teleporters will accept beacons, but won't actually take him anywhere, enhancement storage won't actually store enhancements, etc. He can't have anyone else come into it. But, everyone in the SG gets to base build with his own copy of the full Prestige account. Gets to try things. Runs into limitations of plot size, Prestige on hand, etc. Learns that with more Prestige coming in, more things can be done. Leans why a zillion was spent on those weird control-generating devices and their auxes.

Influence on the game world is nil, but ALL SG members benefit more from forming SGs that earn more prestige. Screenshots can be taken, advice given: "Hey boss, I noticed we could keep everything we have but squeeze in an extra room if we do what I tried..." Maybe add a function to copy over the existing real base as a starting point, as well as to be able to start from scratch.

Anyhow, want everyone to be able to have access to the fun of base building, without leaders having to expose the group to the chaos, risk and headache of giving too many people too much permission.

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Gravity Distortion does slightly more damage, but you're going to want to drop some damage for hold duration (only needs a couple) and recharge (just one). In general, I find that I just need enough hold duration to spam-hold a boss safely.

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Yeah, that's one approach. GD does damage but, it's a hold! Solo, the more I can hold, the safer I am. On a team, my damage isn't negligible but there sure ought to be better damage dealers than me. Acc, recharge and hold. Juggling 2 purple bosses and annoying a third with Force Bolt is better (to me) than the orange numbers I can generate with GD.

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Lift and Propel are the attack powers.

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Your perspective may shuffle around later in the game, especially with IO builds and team buffs. I view Crush as more an attack. Sure, it's a nice immob, but a lead-off Crushing Field sets off containment. Crush cycles quickly especially with a nice damage IO set. It can still be used as an immob, but between spamming it and Grav Dist, not much is going to be moving anywhere. Unless there are so many foes that you're using Crushing field.

The plusses of Propel are that it is way, way cool looking, and it is a guaranteed kill of anything targeted with it in a team setting. No, it's damage is respectable but not enough to guarantee the kill. By the time you've done the controlling you need to, then this power actually activates, that target has been killed by your teammates. Everyone looks about uncomfortably as you fling a forklift into a corpse As mentioned, the Lift that seemed lackluster starts to look better in your eyes as Propel loses its shine. The knockup of Lift is team-friendly damage mitigation too. Oh, I believe having a physics setting other than "none" is what keeps the debris staying. Forever. If it could just die after five or ten seconds, that would be great. Try working the same trick-or-treat door with a team using Propel. Gets old.

That crushing field doesn't prevent knockback *can* be a plus. Baddies still flop on powers like Ice Slick, instead of being held upright and able to attack in other immobs.

For Dimension Shift and/or Detention Field, I'd set up a bind that briefly says what it is doing, so that in the heat of the battle those who might miss or not know what's going on can be informed. Putting the text in local channel has the text color stand out. You will be a royal pain if you use these powers frivolously, making the team stand around wasting time.

Wormhole, it should be noted, has a bouncing ball knockback effect. Practice with it. While it's a great power, pointlessly spreading out a mob that wasn't going to be a real danger and would otherwise have been in control is bad in a team setting. A Crushing Field before or after will stop the stagger-walking.

*blasphemy alert!!!*
I don't like Grav Dist Field. "But it's an AOE Hold!!!!!1" Yeah. But the recharge is long enough that I hesitate in firing it off, wanting to save it as a wipe-preventer. Except a lot of times when an impending wipe is in progress and recognized, it isn't all that impressive. You're fighting tons of reds and higher at that point, and acc and hold duration are limitations. And you really have to six-slot this puppy. In that context, wouldn't Wormhole and/or Dimension Shift be the better investment?

Yes, there are better ways to think of and use GDF, just pointing out that for some playstyles/mindsets, it can seem a bit "meh."

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This is a travel power.

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No. But it does make travelling safer, along the lines of a character with mez protection being safer travelling with it up.

PFF will let you do some aggro management / alpha strike stunts too. However, on some level the baddies know you are no threat in it, so they will happily move on from you to other teammates who have popped onto their radar screens. PFF is slow-ish to recharge, so you're not going to be popping in and out of nigh-untouchability at will in mid-battle.

On a team that's hesitant about the alpha? You can decide if you want to try and brave it. You can even do this with Singularity in tow. Be aware that "only affecting self" means your dispersion bubble is no longer protecting teammates within it. Or you can open locking everything in place with Crushing Field if you think you can take the initial return fire, then ride out the heat in PFF while the rest of the team gets in there.

As mentioned, Singularity is a steady, reliable companion. Note that he can be slotted for hold and immob duration if you wish. Kind of nice to put a single hold on a boss to find it has stacked with one of Singularity's.

Have to stress Force Bubble's ginormity. The OP's points are valid, though I don't know if I'd say FB would incapacitate a spawn alone just because they're in a corner. It certainly does wreak havoc on them though. Anyhow, point being that you can aggro things off to the side or behind with Force Bubble when you only wanted to push that spawn directly in front of the team.

Like PFF, it takes a bit to recharge, so sometimes you can be stuck with a bad "push" with the mob split. What to do? Err on the side of caution. If you drop the FB, you won't have it back for a bit. If you try zipping around all over to regroup the baddies you can aggro more and make targetting/fighting tough for your teammates. Use judgement, might be best to simply leave the critters where they are if no one is in any real danger.

IOs: You can have all sorts of fun with IOs They're fun to explore as you get the inclination, and neat results can be had in a variety of price ranges. At the very least, you can save some slots. But you can do a lot more too.

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Lighthouse has now said the poll results will not be published.

Makes the whole exercise a bit pointless, in my opinion.


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Wasn't the point for the devs to get a feel for what we'd want? Publishing it on the other hand, would be pointless without agreeing up front to implement the top selections. Well, unless the point would be to subject themselves to endless abuse for chosing something other than what won the poll. I'm glad to get my input in, even if it differs from the majority, even if they don't go with it.

james_joyce:
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Is it just me, or does [Electric Hammer] seem strangely specific?

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At first I was thinking "OK, hammer, ummm... make the Mace we've got better and you're done, just change the heads out." But I'm guessing they want us to think Norse. Those kind of moves might be nice, maybe getting a lighning rod type strike with it, etc.

But still, you've already got axe and mace that are largely collecting dust. While you're looking, give them a little buffage, sparkle or shine so that in players' eyes they count as sets too?

Great to hear this. Most of these *could* be cool, but fear the "more of the same" potential. The hammer could be mace, swords we already have, street fighting could just be super strength moves. Staff however could cover new ground and be a fit for more concepts that aren't catered to.

By dual blades would we be talking about shorter/faster blades? Something in-between maybe claws and the sword sets with a few new moves? Energy blade? I do like that Carnie energy sword, wouldn't be for everyone though... and again we're at swords (please make this an invented temp though).

Psionic weaponry could be anything so... who knows? It does leave a lot of room for freshness if we're talking power-ring realm here.

I can picture cool ball-n-chain moves but... more concept limiting and typically more apt on brutes. Besides we've waited how long? Not gonna sign up for something with a built-in "expect this to take longer" mechanism unless it was one I'd been dying for.

Density control and FF sound like the best combinations of reasonable and appealing for defense sets. Techy tank with energy sword and FFs heisted off the Crey, or brought from the future, etc, etc? Not too shabby.

This is so very nice! Thanks Scrapulous.

I'm going to have so much fun pondering different slotting options for varous characters.

There's actually a game/expansion titled "Rage of the Wookiees???"

I just died a little inside.

Yes! Thank you!!!

Some good issues brought up, didn't see this one though... and I kind of groan to bring it up but oh well:

Thanks for the temp-power, a little extra endurance is nice. The super-long duration is nice. Except that it comes with a full-body green glow that will not go away! I mean if in Invul or a Regen doesn't like the look of his powers, he can turn them off for some respite from them (even if inadvisable when fighting). But no, my hero glows green and will not stop. Kinda "need" some screenshots too but.... no... my hero glows green

Silly complaint? Sure I guess, but it is no secret how much character/costume appearance means to some people. If it's a passive, no graphics effects, please. If a 5% boost to my endurance capacity is so game-altering for PvP that everyone needs to be warned about this, make it a toggle. Same goes for the runspeed boost one, but that graphic isn't as offensive to me, personally. If there's a way around this, I'll gladly take the flames that will come attached for not knowing it.

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The most important thing is the quality of the game. That's it. Everything else is secondary (including ego's).

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OMG, you all just read it! Statesman's nerfing egos!!!!!1!!11!
/teasing
Thanks States. Appreciate what we've seen and heard today. Hope to hear and see more in coming tomorrows.

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Besides. Scrappers really don't start to get UBER until the veryyy late game. I'd say about 41+ is when there uberness really becomes apparant. By that time you're so close to end game it really doesn't matter.


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Uh, by that logic you realize you just justified any late-game downgrade or "nerf" that might come your way, right? Because "By that time you're so close to end game it really doesn't matter" right?

Look, we've got plenty of threads going for those issues already, and there'll be plenty more. Michael_Au_Cluin made a nice thread, and Statesman was very gracious and big by popping in and making the comment he did. Changes are coming, and at this point can't be avoided. Either Tanks just walk off into the ocean, all become tanking Scrappers, or migrate off into other AT for good. OR... we work on getting things balanced and fun, a challenge Statesman has said he and his team are up for. My hope is that everyone will work together positively to achieve this. You just might get more of your concerns listened to without the hyperventilating over-reacting.

I'll check in with the AR/DEVs I know and find out if any of them, too, "has found that he gets killed by 3 white minions--EVERY TIME."

If that game is too big for him, personally, I'd suggest smaller packs, lower levels, and/or hitting the forums to see if (gasp) there's something he might be doing wrong where he dies every time under those circumstances. If it's too big for everyone, well then it's a balance issue. As long as the XPs balance, life is (theoretically) good.

Hmm, I wonder how he'd fare with a Scrapper by his side. Or a Tank. Or Defender or Controller.

Never mind, this is heph we're talking about. Just keep the negativity coming and try to make us all feel miserable about a game you hate so much you refuse to stop playing and discussing. Or will you stop it if we take up a donation to PL you to 50, since that seems to be the alpha and omega of your hostility?

Wow, weird reactions here. I'm behind Statesman on this one.

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No I don't think 3 even level minions should be a threat to ANY super hero.

[/ QUOTE ] It's been said, but what the heck: Darkseid's minions are tougher than the Penguin's minions. What don't you understand about this? If DC started writing Superman where for 5 years straight he was busy taking on Batman's foes (a minion is a minion, right?) it would be horrible. Those of you saying minions AT YOUR LEVEL should be creampuffs are worse than someone taking his lvl 36 to Atlas to clean up. Because you're still expecting full XP after saying you want the minions to be a cakewalk.

Now keep in mind, this magic number "3" is what they call a guidepost. Since posters here lean toward the power-gamer side of things, it could be well 4 or 5. For the person who typically RPs hosting episodes of "Goth Talk" it could well be 2. A skilled gamer is still going to stand out by making the most of what's available to him.

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Otherwise, this will once again make teams highly restrictive. "What? He's 25? We're all 27s. That's too low! We can't sidekick him so get rid of him. He'll find a single level 27 minion a challenge and I can take 3!"

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Well if you haven't noticed, something's broken the way things are now. At 28 I'm getting 22s-24s routinely expecting to team with me, and not take an SK! Some of it's due a bit to a social circle, but still this is way out of whack. Especially when we're fighting 28s and above. I'm not talking about blatant power-leveling here, but them simply knowing that the risk-reward structure works well in that situation, with the risk being relatively low cruising in waters that should be well above their heads.

Then we've got people saying there's no sense of advancement when you're still fighting the same amount of CO-LEVEL mobs. Give me a break. I used to run down the double yellows in Steel Canyon cursing my contacts for sending me there, hoping to avoid all the mobs that were way overpowered for me. Then it got to where I could take on some of the weaker ones with a cautious approach. Then I handled them easily and take on the tougher ones. Then I owned the place. Call me kooky, but that felt like progression. Dunno how the rest of you missed it.

Agree that some of the villians are hosed when it comes to powers/appearances vs their place in the food chain. Maybe the Button Men should have been swapped with the Clockwork or Trolls, the Sky Raiders with the Tsoo, etc. The higher you go, the more special effects you get. The Tsoo and the Freaks and the Clocks aren't bad at all, and could have been justified in being tougher. Guess that they just realized the switchblade/buckshot thing gets stylistically old fast. Heck, I'm thinking the "new" Outcast will make the Family feel like a letdown.

Now I will concede that perhaps over 20 lvls the number of minions you can handle might be able to go up slightly, just to represent your growing skill with the game, and the extra coverage/synergy with the extra powers available. But keep in mind that many of us are coming at this from the perspective of being tankers, the vast majority of which have experience with Fire and/or Inv. That's a whole new ball game.

Can't talk about Fire, but I'm more and more convinced Invinc is broken. It alone changes the whole game instantly. Why fight 3 minions when you can fight 20 and it's only easier? Granted just before getting it (I don't have TI) I did feel a little less than heroic, and just after I did feel like a hero. But now it's largely a joke with most even-lvl cons, throngs of them. I play more sloppy at times, and feel more like I'm sleepwalking through the streets/missions. Was on a team mission against Warriors in a warehouse last night, and remembered thinking "Lt, minion, whatever, it's all the same." Just makes the mobs and encounters more faceless and boring when you're clicking your way through 30 of them compared to when you were sweating at least a bit fighting a few Outcast in Steel. There's got to be a middle ground. It cheapens the villians when you can survive and demolish armies of them at your level and higher without breaking a sweat, and that costs me my suspension of disbelief.

Heck, I'd toy with the idea of halving the bonuses of Invinc. Remember, if we diminish the number of mobs needed to make an effective enemy group, we can theoretically get away from the herding/aoe maddness so many dislike. It also gives the devs room for tweaking aoe effects since single-target blasts will mean more.

It should also make zones more enjoyable on the subconcious lvl. My thinking is that these kinds of changes will make the difference between white and say red quite a bit more pronounced, and purple would no longer be "yeah? how purple?" Back to Steel, I could street sweep there, but had to pay good attention to the levels of the mobs (not the type to just start fights and leave them unfinished). This was good, added fear and suspense. In Dark Astoria after say lvl 24, it didn't matter. You didn't usually round a corner from a group of 24s to find a group of 29s. And if you blundered into a group of 26s, or above, no problem. At the worst you can live and get away quite easily. What I'm saying is we should be darn interested in knowing that a huge group is +2, instead of being able to shrug it off.

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Or are you going to sit there and tell me that any tanker in this game could handle even one let alone 3 wonder womans.

[/ QUOTE ] I'm sure plenty are willing to try