IO slotting example: Melee Attacks

Scrapulous · 04-20-2007 01:14 PM

IO slotting example: Melee Attacks

Melee damage sets present a lot of opportunity to customize one's character, simply because there are so many of them. There are two control procs and two damage procs, and after the first two set bonuses there is considerable variety. This allows Tankers, Scrappers, Blappers, Stalkers, Brutes, melee Dominators and some Kheldians quite a bit of flexibility when planning for set bonuses.

I propose to examine some of the choices facing characters at the high end of the game and to compare maximum effectiveness in i9 against maximum effectiveness in i8.

Assumptions:

We're considering a level 50 character using level 50 enhancements.
I've abandoned my hard cap assumption for ED. I'm now using Circeus' formula to calculate total benefit.
Attacks are six slotted. I will mention opportunities to free up slots when they are apparent, but a core assumption is that the attacks we want to slot are worth spending many slots on.
Maximizing damage is a priority for melee attacks.
Slotting examples are PvE focused, because that's what I know. The trade-offs involved will be similar for PvP builds, but the ideal slotting will probably not. In particular, PvP will have a greater emphasis on high accuracy, so HO slotting may become more desireable in that context.

Earlier examples:
IO slotting example: AOE holds
IO slotting example: Health

CONSIDERATIONS

Procs

A "proc" is a process that is executed when a power is activated. In the case of melee attacks, the procs all have a chance of affecting the target of the attack if the attack hits successfully. There are two damage procs and two control procs. The damage procs are a chance to do additional lethal damage from Mako's Bite, and a chance to do additional negative energy damage from Touch of Death. The control procs are a chance to knockdown from Kinetic Combat, and a chance to disorient from Pounding Slugfest.

Slotting procs is a matter of personal taste. Procs can be streaky, and some folks prefer more predictable performance from their powers. Some would also argue that the damage procs do too little damage to justify an entire slot. A counter-argument to this is that proc damage is unaffected by ED, so while it's not guaranteed, it's also a way to make an already ED-capped power perform just a little better. Sometimes.

If you have a choice to slot a proc in multiple different powers, or if you're going to be stacking the same set in 5 different powers but only have one of the procs for now, slot procs in the most frequently activated powers first. Procs have the same damage, same duration and same chance to fire no matter what power they're slotted into, but you'll get much more benefit from slotting a proc into a fast-firing power that you use a lot than you will from putting it into a very slow or situational power. Put more simply, a 20% chance to disorient or do 40 damage is a lot better if that chance comes every 3 seconds instead of every 30 seconds.

Set Bonuses

Melee damage sets are the first example in this series to have so many sets that we can really look at choosing a set based on its set bonuses.

For example, let's compare Crushing Impact and Mako's Bite, the two level 30-53 sets. Crushing Impact is totally dedicated to power enhancement, by which I mean every enhancement in the set actually enhances a facet of the power that it's slotted in. Mako's Bite, by contrast, has a proc, so only five of the IOs in Mako's Bite enhance the properties of the power it's slotted in.

Let's see how the numbers add up:

Crushing Impact (acc/dam, dam/end, dam/rch, acc/dam/rch, acc/dam/end, dam/end/rch)
acc: +68.9%
dam: +101.5% [reduced by ED from 143.1%]
end: +68.9%
rch: +68.9%

The damage bonus is far beyond the ED diminishing returns cap, which tells us that if we want to slot other enhancements into a power with Crushing Impact, our best opportunity to do so is to lose one of the dual-effect IOs (ideally one of the diminishing returns types, like dam/rch or dam/end).

Mako's Bite (acc/dam, dam/end, dam/rch, acc/dam/end/rch, acc/end/rch, lethal proc)
acc: +66.2%
dam: +94.7% [reduced by ED from 98%]
end: +66.2%
rch: +66.2%

Mako's Bite doesn't have as much room to drop enhancements as Crushing Impact does - procs and global effects are very expensive for mix and matchers. Its acc, end and rch bonuses are competitive with Crushing Impact, and its damage is sufficiently over the ED cap as to remain competitive as well. Where it wins in this comparison is that 20% of the time it will do extra damage which is undiminished by the ED cap.

But things change a bit when we look at the set bonuses for these sets.

Crushing Impact:
immob resistance +2.2%
max health +1.125%
tohit bonus +2.5%
recharge reduction 5%
psi resistance +2.5%

Mako's Bite:
immob resistance +3.3%
max health +1.5%
damage bonus +3%
hold resistance +3.3%
ranged defense +3.75%

Both sets have the unimpressive immobilization resistance as their first bonus. In fact, 7 of the 10 melee sets do, and one of the three that doesn't has the equally unimpressive sleep resistance instead. If we were talking about double digit resistance levels, I'd say that these are stackable to appreciable benefit, but as things stand I'm going to call them both equal on this count.

Both sets have the excellent max health bonus. Mako's Bite has the edge here, with a slightly larger bonus. The third bonus represents more divergence, with Crushing Impact adding global tohit buffs, and Mako's adding global damage; both of these are unbounded by ED. For the fourth set bonus, Crushing Impact offers an very good recharge reduction, while Mako's Bite has only an embarrassing hold resistance buff. For the fifth bonus, CI has something that many covet: psi resistance. It's not much, but it's stackable to respectable levels and will represent a very nice boost to survivability for those who can afford to stack it. Mako's Bite has a positional defense to ranged attack instead, and a rather large one. This is potentially very valuable to those who rely on SR and Ninjitsu for their defenses, but is merely a nice bonus for others, since it doesn't stack with the far more common typed defenses.

Which to choose?

Mako's Bite is the most attractive for those who want to maximize their damage and for those with positional defenses. Mako's Bite offers damage beyond ED caps in both the lethal proc and in the global damage buff set bonus.

CI should be more popular for folks who have accuracy problems or who plan to stack 4-5 CIs on top of other set tohit buffs in order that they can slot fewer accuracies into their other powers, or for people who plan to do the same with the -recharge time buff. It's also likely to be popular with tankers and other characters built to take hits with typed defenses: the boosts to max health combined with resistance to psi damage will represent a considerable boost in survivability for many tankers when stacked.

SLOTTING COMPARISONS

Let's get into the familiar format of comparing i8 slotting with potential i9 slotting and seeing how things shake out.

SO slotting: 1 acc, 3 dam, 1 end, 1 rch
acc: +33.3%
dam: +95% [reduced by ED from 99.9%]
end: +33.3%
rch: +33.3%
total: +194.9%

This is a safe generic slotting for melee attacks. It's not what everybody uses, but it's certainly a happy medium. This will be our baseline for comparison with current i8 slotting.

HO slotting: 3 acc/dam HOs; 2 rch SOs, 1 end SO
acc: +95% [reduced by ED from 99.9%]
dam: +95% [reduced by ED from 99.9%]
rch: +66.6%
end: +33.3%
total: +289.9%

One of the rch SOs could easily be replaced with an end SO, depending on the power and priorities for the build. In either case, the total is the same: 289.9% enhancement benefit, 48.7% greater than standard SO slotting. Of course, one of the benefits of HOs is that they allow similar investment for fewer slots, but let's maintain the six slotting convention for the sake of comparison. This is the maximum effectiveness that can be had in i8 today.

Common IO slotting #1: 1 acc, 3 dmg, 1 end, 1 rch
acc: +42.4%
dmg: +99.1% [reduced by ED from +127.2%]
rch: +42.4%
end: +42.4%
total: 226.3%

Not bad at all, and with no investment in sets or HOs. It's only 16.1% better than standard SO slotting,though, mainly because a lot of the IO potential is wasted in ED diminishing returns. So let's take a look at a less damaging but more efficient slotting scheme with common IOs:

Common IO slotting #2: 2 acc IOs, 2 dmg IOs, 1 end, 1 rch
acc: +84.8%
dmg: +84.8%
rch: +42.4%
end: +42.4%
total: 254.4%

Although less damaging per attack than the previous option, the total effective enhancement is much greater. This is 30.5% better than standard SO slotting, but still not as good as HO slotting. Let's see if we can do better with sets.

Set IO slotting #1: Mako's Bite, acc/dam, dam/end, dam/rch, acc/dam/end/rch, acc/end/rch, lethal proc
acc: +66.2%
dam: +94.7% [reduced by ED from 98%]
end: +66.2%
rch: +66.2%
total: 293.3%
Set bonuses:
immob resistance +3.3%
max health +1.5%
damage bonus +3%
hold resistance +3.3%
ranged defense +3.75%

Now we're talking! The total enhancement value is 50.5% greater than with SOs, even better than HO slotting. This doesn't even take set bonuses and the lethal proc into consideration.

Set IO slotting #2: Crushing Impact, acc/dam, dam/end, dam/rch, acc/dam/rch, acc/dam/end, dam/end/rch
acc: +68.9%
dam: +101.5% [reduced by ED from 143.1%]
end: +68.9%
rch: +68.9%
total: 308.2%
Set bonuses:
immob resistance +2.2%
max health +1.125%
tohit bonus +2.5%
recharge reduction 5%
psi resistance +2.5%

Crushing Impact is even more potent than Mako's Bite in terms of direct power enhancement: it's 58.1% better than SO standard. This slotting will do less damage over time than Mako's Bite (because the proc and 3.3% damage boost of MB will outweigh the extra tohit bonus and recharge reduction in CI), but it provides slightly better power enhancement.

Set IO slotting #3: Crushing Impact acc/dam/rch, acc/dam/end, dam/end/rch, Mako's Bite acc/dam/end/rch, acc/end/rch, acc/dam
acc: +96.3% [reduced by ED from +108.6%]
dam: +96.3% [reduced by ED from +108.6%]
end: +82.1%
rch: +82.1%
total: 356.8%
Set bonuses:
immob resistance +5.5%
max health +2.625%

This approach aims for maximum direct power enhancement at the expense of set bonuses by mixing IOs from two different sets. The total enhancement is a very impressive 355.2%, 83.1% better than our SO baseline. The drawback is that it sacrifices some of the better set bonuses from both sets: the tohit, recharge, damage and res/def bonuses are all lost.

This example illustrates how powerful the tri-effect and quad-effect set IOs are: each level 50 tri-effect enhancer provides almost as much raw enhancement as an even-level HO, and quad-effect enhancers provide 11% more enhancement value than an even-level HO.

Combo slotting #1: 3 acc/dam HOs; Crushing Impact dam/end/rch, dam/end, dam/rch
acc: +95% [reduced by ED from 99.9%]
dam: +106.1% [reduced by ED from +174.1%]
end: +47.7%
rch: +47.7%
total: 296.5%
Set bonuses:
immob resistance +2.2%
max health +1.125%

This attempt to mix HOs with a set is embarrassingly bad. It's only 52.1% better than SO baseline, slightly better than a full Mako's Bite set (not counting set bonuses and procs, which makes Mako's better than this), but worse than the other set options we've examined.

Why does combining with HOs do so much worse here than in the AOE Holds example? The first reason is that AOE holds have 3 enhancement dimensions that ideally should be maxed, while for attacks damage is the primary concern and acc can reasonably be lower than 90%, while end and rch can quite happily be lower than 90%. With more primary enhancement types that should be maxed, AOE Holds benefit more than melee attacks from the enhancement depth of HOs.

The second reason is that the hold sets distribute their enhancement values much more evenly across multiple enhancement types than melee attack sets do. Melee attack set enhancements nearly all have a damage component. Since that's also one of the applicable HO components, mixing HOs into melee damage sets will quickly run into ED limits. The best you can do is to remove the highest damage value enhancements from the sets (i.e. dual-effect enhancements) and replace them with HOs. Even then you run into very inefficient pre-ED damage values like the 174.1 number in this example.

But there's another potential approach that avoids the second problem. Let's try it:

Combo slotting #2: 3 acc/dam HOs; 2 rch common IOs, 1 end common IO
acc: +95% [reduced by ED from 99.9%]
dam: +95% [reduced by ED from 99.9%]
end: +42.4%
rch: +84.8%
total: 317.2%

We've got some more mileage from using common IOs, which allow us to avoid the problem of stacking too much enhancement effect into damage. But now we're hobbled by the weakness of common IOs compared to set IOs. Although this is an improvement at 62.8% better than SO slotting, it's not the best raw enhancement value we've seen so far. This also denies us any set bonuses. We're much better served by the Set slotting #3, which gives us better power enhancement and one nice set bonus and one forgettable set bonus.

Combo slotting #3: 5x Mako's Bite: acc/dam, dam/end, dam/rch, acc/dam/end/rch, acc/end/rch; 1 common IO rch
acc: +66.2%
dam: +94.7% [reduced by ED from 98%]
end: +66.2%
rch: +96.3% [reduced by ED from 108.6%]
total: 323.4%
Set bonuses:
immob resistance +3.3%
max health +1.5%
damage bonus +3%
hold resistance +3.3%

This is an attempt to rehabilitate Mako's Bite's performance by omitting the lethal proc in favor of a common IO. It's 65.9% better than SO standard slotting. Whether the loss of additional damage is worth the gain in recharge is a personal decision.

Specialty slotting #1: Kinetic Combat chance for knockdown; Pounding Slugfest chance to disorient; Touch of Death chance for negative energy damage; 3x Mako's Bite: chance for lethal damage, acc/dam, acc/dam/end/rch
acc: +45%
dam: +45%
end: +18.5%
rch: +18.5%
total: 127%
Set bonuses:
immob resistance +3.3%
max health +1.5%

This takes a different approach, and is not competitive in terms of raw enhancement power (43.8% worse than SO standard). It has all of the available melee set procs in it. One of Arcanaville's posts got me thinking about this, and she deserves credit for the idea.

For most of your attacks, this wouldn't be a great approach. But what about Brawl? Setting aside for the moment the expense of six-slotting Brawl, this gives you an extremely fast attack that gives you a 20% chance to do extra lethal damage, a "small" chance (the IO description doesn't provide the actual number - I presume 20%) to do extra negative energy damage, a 20% chance to knockdown, and a 10% chance to disorient with every hit. That ain't hay, folks.

Furthermore, Brawl is inherent, so there is no expense power-wise. Brawl recharges in 2 seconds and activates in .67 seconds, so assuming a perfectly even distribution of probability and use of Brawl at every opportunity (i.e. Brawl chained with other attacks that animate in less than 2 seconds), you'll be doing knockdown, extra lethal damage and extra negative damage every 13.35 seconds, and disorient every 26.7 seconds.

This isn't trivial, especially for those who use Brawl anyway. "Like who, Scrap?" Like Brutes, who typically use Brawl as a fury-builder early in their careers (some never stop). And like PvP folks, who may get a kick out of the combination of toggle dropping and procs in a Brawl slotted like this (and disorient is guaranteed to drop all toggles, so there's a small bonus in there).

SUMMARY

Here's a summary table of the comparitive enhancement values of each example above, omitting set bonus considerations. Enh value refers to the total enhancement value, and % improvement refers to how this example compares to the standard SO slotting baseline.

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Example name Desc Enh value % improvement

SO slotting i8 standard 194.9% 0.0%
HO slotting i8 best 289.9% 48.7%
Common IO #1 max dmg 226.3% 16.1%
Common IO #2 max efficiency 254.4% 30.5%
Set IO #1 full Mako's 293.3% 50.5%
Set IO #2 full Cr Impact 308.2% 58.1%
Set IO #3 mix Mako & CI 356.8% 83.1%
Combo #1 HO + CI 296.5% 52.1%
Combo #2 HO + com. IO 317.2% 62.8%
Combo #3 Set + com. IO 323.4% 65.9%
Specialty #1 Proctastic 127.0% -43.8%
</pre><hr />

CONCLUSIONS

Once again, we see that the best available power enhancements come from mixing and matching sets. In this case, the most powerful single power enhancement comes from a mix of two sets (Set IO example #3). HOs are left in the cold comparatively in this case: although they can be credible enhancements, they offer no set bonuses and are scarcely better than full sets that offer desireable set bonuses.

Furthermore, this is the first example we've examined where we can really start to anticipate the effects of stacking set bonuses. It's not at all inconceivable that a character might have five powers fully slotted with Mako's Bite or Crushing Impact. Looking only at Crushing Impact, that would mean:

immob resistance: +11%
max health +5.625%
tohit bonus +12.5%
recharge reduction 25%
psi resistance +12.5%

These are serious bonuses. The recharge reduction alone is half of a Speed Boost's, and 5/6 of an AM's. You can see how choosing other complementary sets would allow you to build set bonuses that are equivalent to powers in their own rights.

For maximum individual power effectiveness, I would us the Set IO #3 slotting. If you're going instead for set bonuses, then I would look hard at Mako's Bite, Crushing Impact, and Touch of Death. If you like the Mako's Bite set and you have more than 5 six-slotted melee attacks, consider putting Mako's Bite in the first five and Touch of Death in the next five. Why? Because Touch of Death has similar bonuses to Mako's Bite:

Mako's Bite:
immob resistance +3.3%
max health +1.5%
damage bonus +3%
hold resistance +3.3%
ranged defense +3.75%

Touch of Death:
immob resistance: +2.75%
max health +1.5%
damage bonus +2.5%
hold resistance +2.75%
melee defense +3.13%

Because of the way set bonus stacking works (you can't stack more than 5 of the same strength and type of bonus), the different values work in our benefit. Here's an unrealistic but possible character with 10 attacks six slotted with 5 full Mako's and 5 full Touch sets:

immob resistance: +30.25%
max health: +7.5% (only stacks 5 times)
damage bonus: +27.5%
hold resistance: +30.25%
ranged defense: +18.75%
melee defense: +15.65%

The immob resistance is still forgettable. The health bonus is no better than if you just had 5 full sets of Mako's/Touch in any combination. The damage bonus, however, is impressive: it's almost an extra SO of damage that is totally unaffected by ED. The hold resistance is actually not bad for characters with status protection toggles, because it increases the hold stacking required to overcome it. And the defenses here are extremely good. For the sake of comparison, your ranged defense is almost as good as a Super Reflexes Scrapper's Focused Senses with 2 def SOs in it. And the melee defense is almost as good as a SR Scrapper's Focused Fighting with 1 def SO in it. So to everything but AoEs, this character is a junior SR Scrapper. And if you were a SR scrapper to begin with, this turns you into a tiny god and calls to mind the days of perma-Elude.

I'd like to reiterate at this point that this slotting is not entirely practical - it requires spending 50 of your 67 lifetime slots on single target melee attacks, and it means that your attack chain is probably filled with redundancy. On the other hand, if you can find 5 melee attacks and 5 defense sets whose bonuses complement one another and your build (either by filling gaps or enhancing existing power), then you can build remarkably effective characters. More on that in the next installment.

Scrap

Bleak_NA · 04-20-2007 02:36 PM

Now this is what I am taking about great post.

Jetpack · 04-20-2007 07:53 PM

Indeed, amazing work.

Demobot · 04-20-2007 09:56 PM

Amazing stuff. I can't wait to see more of your guides. When you've covered all power types, you GOTSTA compile them into some sort of uber-guide.

@Demobot

Also on Steam

Jetpack · 04-21-2007 04:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Amazing stuff. I can't wait to see more of your guides. When you've covered all power types, you GOTSTA compile them into some sort of uber-guide.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, yes!

Doc_Scorpion · 04-21-2007 06:10 AM

Very nice analysis.

I do question however about your emphasis on 'Enh value' (in the summary) however. The raw total is important - but it doesn't really tell the whole story. (I know, this goes against the grain of the "if there is a number, make it bigger" mindset in MMO's.)

For a fast recharging power (for example) it may not pay to max out that extra x% - if it's in recharge. If you have a functional attack chain - having each individual attack in the chain be suboptimal from an 'Enh value' standpoint may still yield an equally powerful character from the cumulative effects of the chain.

Take for example the 'proctastic' slotting - I suspect that for my scrapper or blapper it may prove more effective to scatter procs across multiple powers in a chain, at a cost in rch. Why? Because you still get the chance for procs to fire - while also maintaining the benefits of individual attacks (-def or disorient for example).

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

Prismo_the_Great · 04-21-2007 07:26 AM

Holy cow... I didn't even think of Brawl. Even throwing in another slot just to have a disorient and knockdown proc for it...*giggles madly*

Wonderfantabulous post.

Majek · 04-21-2007 07:36 AM

Wow, awesome post. I hate IOs and the added complication already

kukido · 04-21-2007 07:50 AM

This is so very nice! Thanks Scrapulous.

I'm going to have so much fun pondering different slotting options for varous characters.

Wen_Ho · 04-21-2007 08:37 AM

This just shows yet again that I just need to wait and let those with bigger brains than I tell me how best to deal with all the new data. Without people like you I'm sure I'd just cripple my toon horrifically.

Thanks

Scrapulous · 04-21-2007 12:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I do question however about your emphasis on 'Enh value' (in the summary) however. The raw total is important - but it doesn't really tell the whole story.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am in total agreement. Choosing the highest possible Enhancement value without regard for circumstances is not the right way to approach slotting a power or, more significantly, building a character. You probably noticed that my recommendations are biased somewhat toward taking Set IO slotting 1, 2 or 3, mainly because I think that stacking set bonuses is the real way to unlock the power of IOs.

[ QUOTE ]

For a fast recharging power (for example) it may not pay to max out that extra x% - if it's in recharge. If you have a functional attack chain - having each individual attack in the chain be suboptimal from an 'Enh value' standpoint may still yield an equally powerful character from the cumulative effects of the chain.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite right. I leave it to the player to decide what enhancements are valuable for him and mix and match accordingly. I would like to write a small guide to mixing and matching with sets in order to maximize the enhancement types you're interested in, but the list of these things that I want to write is already very long. We'll see what I get around to... and when i9 goes live my priority will be rewriting the existing guides based on current feedback so that people will have an opportunity to benefit from the get-go.

I will say that even a complete attack chain can benefit from recharge enhancement if that recharge enhancement allows the chain to be reduced by one attack, even if it means that there is some downtime in an attack chain (contrary to intuition, some attack chains are better served by incorportating some downtime than by eliminating downtime by adding an inefficient attack or an attack with a long animation).

I make that point mainly as a way of paving the way for a point that I haven't yet made explicitly but intend to hammer home in my next guide: it's time to abandon conventional build wisdom. It's time to consider six-slotting health, six-slotting shields, slotting Brawl, and choosing formerly sub-optimal powers. Be willing to re-examine and throw out what you thought you knew about how to make a build, because IOs allow you to do impressive new things with dull old powers.

To reiterate, I can't take into account all the possible circumstances because every build will have different powersets, power pools, powers, slotting priorities, secondary power effects, set bonuses, thematic/conceptual considerations and playstyle factors that go into making it viable.

These slotting examples are, well, examples. They're not optimal slotting for everybody, they're not the only way to approach the subject, and they're certainly not going to work for every build. In fact, I'm sure that I've overlooked even more effective ways to slot. And it's obvious that I've ignored 80% of the melee sets when building the examples (mainly because 70% of the sets have fewer than six total enhancements - but that's actually a benefit when mixing and matching). This is not the whole story, it's just an introduction, or more accurately an invitation to discuss the story. I'm not an authority, I'm just somebody who wants to get discussion about this stuff going. I have no doubt that Arcanaville or iakona or EvilGeko or Stupid_Fanboy or any of the other better thinkers about powers have already worked out more effective slotting than I've done here.

Scrap

_HERC_ · 05-01-2007 07:31 AM

Great guide. I have some concerns as I am sure most do with regard to salvage, influence, prestige, etc. I have been wondering, with the inherent "cost" associated with the invention system per player (influence, time, prestige, etc) have the Devs thought about adjusting prestige costs to base items, rent, etc? I am sure that most in my Super Group (including myself, and at my urging) will be actively involved in customizing costume pieces (if possible) and augmenting their characters' sets/powers/abilities, etc. Has any one heard anything in this regard?

Scraps, my thanks and congrats on a well put together guide. Sure helps with some pre-confusion! --wink--

TerraDraconis · 05-01-2007 07:53 AM

These slotting guides your doing are great.

But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius

List of Invention Guides

Kitteh · 05-01-2007 08:15 AM

I'm planning not to bother with IO's too much, but FWIW, I think that you are doing a great service for the community.

Repeat Offenders

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

Ghost_Warrior · 05-01-2007 08:26 AM

I thank you for the time and effort that you put into these guides so that the rest of us can use them to have more time to play the game. Awesome work!

Nice title too.

Jinjon10 · 05-01-2007 08:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm planning not to bother with IO's too much, but FWIW, I think that you are doing a great service for the community.

[/ QUOTE ]Prior to reading your posts, I was more apt to ignore IOs for the most part. However, I'm becoming more and more excited by their addition now.

My concern is being able to find and afford enough IO's in order to make a set once, never mind 5 times over. Any thoughts there?

www.doomheroes.com

EvilGeko · 05-01-2007 08:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Combo slotting #1: 3 acc/dam HOs; Crushing Impact dam/end/rch, dam/end, dam/rch
acc: +95% [reduced by ED from 99.9%]
dam: +106.1% [reduced by ED from +174.1%]
end: +47.7%
rch: +47.7%
total: 296.5%
Set bonuses:
immob resistance +2.2%
max health +1.125%

This attempt to mix HOs with a set is embarrassingly bad. It's only 52.1% better than SO baseline, slightly better than a full Mako's Bite set (not counting set bonuses and procs, which makes Mako's better than this), but worse than the other set options we've examined.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting. I think the issue here is using that third Nucleolus. The slotting I'm looking at is either:

Two Nucleolus; Mako's Bite: Dmg/End, Dmg/Rech, Acc/Rech/End, Mako's proc

or

Two Nucleolus; Mako's Bite: Dmg/End, Dmg/Rech, Acc/Rech/End, Dmg/Acc/Rech/End

The first gets you the following:

Damage 99%
Accuracy 84%
Recharge/Endurance 48%

IO bonuses: Chance for Lethal; Immobilize resist; Max Health 1.5%, Damage 3%

Replacing the proc ups the Accuracy to 99% and the Recharge/Endurance to 66%.

The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.

_Shadowstone_ · 05-01-2007 08:42 AM

Great guide.
It should help shed some light on the huge possibilities IO's and set IO's have on characters for those who may be undecided about how effective they can be.

I have a Brute that I was experimenting with (the Em/Elec in my sig, currently 35 on Test) that I was using CI in Brawl (only 4 slotted yet) and ToD in Energy Transfer and Air Superiority. I can say that for a Brute, slotted Brawl is nothing to turn your nose up at in PvE or PvP.
I was using Rope a Dope in the stun attacks, but that's probably for another guide.

Plasma · 05-01-2007 09:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Interesting. I think the issue here is using that third Nucleolus. The slotting I'm looking at is either:

Two Nucleolus; Mako's Bite: Dmg/End, Dmg/Rech, Acc/Rech/End, Mako's proc

or

Two Nucleolus; Mako's Bite: Dmg/End, Dmg/Rech, Acc/Rech/End, Dmg/Acc/Rech/End

The first gets you the following:

Damage 99%
Accuracy 84%
Recharge/Endurance 48%

IO bonuses: Chance for Lethal; Immobilize resist; Max Health 1.5%, Damage 3%

Replacing the proc ups the Accuracy to 99% and the Recharge/Endurance to 66%.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was planning to slot disembowel, for example, with 2 nucs, and Mako (proc - dmg/acc/end/rch - acc/end/rch - dmg/rch), which totals out to:

Dmg: 112%
Acc: 106%
Rch: 68%
End: 40%

Set bonuses: res(immob), +hp, +dmg

I started from the assumption that I wanted 4 mako's to get the +dmg bonus, and went from there; it's for a bs/regen.

But the capped rch vs capped acc question is up the in air still for me, since with the +tohit bonuses I'll pick up from Scirocco's Dervish and the def procs and such, will I need capped accuracy? I already have FA and tactics, which I'll keep for the perception.

Overseer · 05-01-2007 09:22 AM

I am loving these Scrapulous posts, keep up the good work man. It's alot easier to make sense of the whole IO thing with these examples then it is from a bunch of numbered charts.

O

EvilGeko · 05-01-2007 10:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
But the capped rch vs capped acc question is up the in air still for me, since with the +tohit bonuses I'll pick up from Scirocco's Dervish and the def procs and such, will I need capped accuracy? I already have FA and tactics, which I'll keep for the perception.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've found that I actually don't like having more than 66% recharge with Hasten. So with the +recharge boosts I'm getting from various places I'm trying to keep my recharge reduction in attack around 40%.

The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.

Nemo_Utopia · 05-02-2007 01:29 PM

Dayam, I am SO shamelessly linking to (and crediting you for) these in my guide updates for I9. This is some awesome stuff, and great work. Hope you get to Ranged Attacks soon =D

Bionic_Flea · 05-04-2007 03:10 PM

Great thinking and numbers as always, Scrapulous.

I do have one disagreement with you though:

[ QUOTE ]
The hold resistance is actually not bad for characters with status protection toggles, because it increases the hold stacking required to overcome it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think that this is accurate. My understanding is that anti-mez toggles have a magnitude that holds have to overcome and that the hold resistance from the bonuses merely effects the length of time you are held, once you are held.

50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM

Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad

Aggelakis · 05-04-2007 03:12 PM

Yes, that is how it works, Flea. Protection = need to stack more mez mag; Resistance = shorter duration of mez.

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phydaux · 05-04-2007 04:27 PM

Say I have 6 Crushing Impact IOs and I slot them all in one of my attacks. As I understand it, this gives me these bonuses to that power:

acc: +68.9%
dam: +101.5%
end: +68.9%
rch: +68.9%

It also gives me this global bonus:

immob resistance +2.2%
max health +1.125%
tohit bonus +2.5%
recharge reduction 5%
psi resistance +2.5%

Now say I get another 6 Crushing Impact, and slot those in another attack. It will give the first group of bonuses to that attack as well. What about the global bonuses? Do I get another round of global bonuses?

What if I slot Mako's Bite in the second attack? I'd then get both groups of global bonuses, wouldn't I?