For those who say fighting for something is wrong
By
63rd_Assassin,
Posted on: 2004-11-22 18:37 in Tankers
Yay!!! guess I will start playing my tanker again 
Dang straight. Post your ideas/thought/opinions. I read 'em - and so does the design team. And I'm not such a prima donna that I can't go back on a past decision and eat some crow.
The most important thing is the quality of the game. That's it. Everything else is secondary (including ego's).
alright - now that was cool States. Now please someone acknowledge that Unstopp to blasters has the ability to alter the balance of the future of this game.
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. Everything else is secondary (including ego's).
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I am going to quote you, a lot.
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4. The US/Rooted problem. Yes, people hate being immobilized; it's on the list of things to look at it. But if we change them, there will be some nerfing of the power to compensate.
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Yes, we hate it. It is a great drag on adventuring and is NOT conducive to team play.
I would hope any nerfing would be reasonable, but I would gladly accept some reduction in power if I could just move. I know that Regeneration has some power to protect against status effects ... perhaps this could inform your decision?
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alright - now that was cool States. Now please someone acknowledge that Unstopp to blasters has the ability to alter the balance of the future of this game.
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I highly doubt that it will be the exact same thing that Invul scrappers, and tankers get. Not sure if I will get it on my blaster or not. It would really suck bad to be in the middle of a mob, and have it go down. 
In Response to 2: I have yet to create a char that doesn't have stamina. I may not always get it as soon as it comes available, but, I have always gotten it. I really don't think that much needs changed with it, but it would be nice to be able to get it earlier than lvl 20. Maybe switch health and stamina around? Most people need the end more than the health.
In response to 3: As for the US/rooted issue, from what I have seen of my friends, the only problem with it is when you team with someone that has a knockack power. If they aren't paying attention to what they are hitting, and where they are pushing them to, then it could cause problems. I think that most people will take the rooting, just so it doesn't get nerfed
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Dang straight. Post your ideas/thought/opinions. I read 'em - and so does the design team. And I'm not such a prima donna that I can't go back on a past decision and eat some crow.
The most important thing is the quality of the game. That's it. Everything else is secondary (including ego's).
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And that's why we're so loyal.
Thanks, States (and team).
#1 on my wishlist is to type Hammi/Mito damage...even if it has to goto PSI...that way we can at least get a defender to buff us against it.
It would be a nice christmas present
Also Liberty's goin after him then....but thats besides the point 
Now about those Mind Controllers...
There is no need to nerf scrapper damg resist. We only get the same damg resist as tankers if we SLOT THE HELL out of the powers like RPD/TI/Tough so that we do get it. Which means we have to neglect other stuff for it. It's a give and take. We sacrifice needed slots for more damg resist. Theres no need to nerf Scrappers.
Besides. Scrappers really don't start to get UBER until the veryyy late game. I'd say about 41+ is when there uberness really becomes apparant. By that time you're so close to end game it really doesn't matter.
[IMG]http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2886/coxboardsig.jpg[/IMG][B][SIZE="3"]
The shining world of the seven systems. On the continent of Wild Endeavour. In the mountains of Solace and Solitude there stood the Citadel of the Time Lords. The oldest and most mightiest race in the Universe. Sworn never to interfere. Only watch...[/SIZE][/B]
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Dang straight. Post your ideas/thought/opinions. I read 'em - and so does the design team. And I'm not such a prima donna that I can't go back on a past decision and eat some crow. The most important thing is the quality of the game. That's it. Everything else is secondary (including ego's).
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States, you have a renewed subscriber. On top of that, I'm sending you a Christmas card.
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Dang straight. Post your ideas/thought/opinions. I read 'em - and so does the design team. And I'm not such a prima donna that I can't go back on a past decision and eat some crow.
The most important thing is the quality of the game. That's it. Everything else is secondary (including ego's).
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Then I feel it's only proper I point out that you used the possesive rather than plural of ego. 
I hope you maintain your lack of pretention, and we see some changes coming!
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Now about those Mind Controllers...
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Funny, I was just about to comment about Grav controllers...
Cool thread.
I don't like the idea that you are altering foes because of the Fitness power pool . I only have one character with that line and I rather you not make me get it for others. I don't plan my characters by what would make them more Munchkin-like (Power-gamer-like). I make their powers match their concept. I would much rather you make the Fitness line innate like Sprinting and Resting. That way everyone gets it.
I have an off topic question too. If you are changing Tanker Taunt to Provoke. What will happen to tankers who already have Provoke?
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I have an off topic question too. If you are changing Tanker Taunt to Provoke. What will happen to tankers who already have Provoke?
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Either you use the free respec States said he'd give you, or you use Provoke as your toe hold into Presence to let you grab the revamped Fear powers. 
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Dang straight. Post your ideas/thought/opinions. I read 'em - and so does the design team. And I'm not such a prima donna that I can't go back on a past decision and eat some crow.
The most important thing is the quality of the game. That's it. Everything else is secondary (including ego's).
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Wow. I knew States has always been good to us, but I was kinda starting to doubt. It's a joy and a pleasure to confirm yet again, that he really is going to bat for us. Thanks man.
Bless you for your intellectual maturity, and that of the development team.
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Statesman :
Tanker changes, at the moment, have a greater priority than Expansion 4's material. I made a mistake by not addressing these concerns earlier; I'm not going to compound it by simply saying "it'll happen sometime...."
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It sounds like I may get to dust off old Blurg and play him again, and maybe even sooner rather than later.
Cool. I loved the idea of the character (he was my first real character in CoH), but I found him increasingly frustrating to play.
One of the things I really like about CoH (besides the fact that we're playing superheroes... I mean, come on, superheroes! what's not to love about that?) is the fact that Cryptic seems to be making an ongoing effort to at least try to address issues like this.
Silas Dark - Magic Scrapper
Blurg - Science Tanker
Quantium X - Mutation Controller
Grey 17 - Natural Defender
Santabot - Technology Blaster
[i]"City of Heroes is at its best as a Superhero game that's implemented as an MMO, rather than as an MMO that just happens to be about Superheroes..."[/i]
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Now about those Mind Controllers...
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Off topic to say the least, but I don't see what everyone is complaining about Mind Controllers. If people would relax a bit and let Mind Controllers flex their muscles you would be amazed at what they can do.
I team a lot with an SG mate named Farmaide. When things like mezz'er and Sappers are about I let him have first crack at the mobs. I've seen him Farmie have mobs under his control disabling and taking the rest of the groups. There are atimes I ask myself, "Why am I even here?" But then he aggro's somebody and I have to go save him.
And at times when we want to clear the minions around the ArchVillia? Farmie asks the Archvillian (say Mother Mayhem) very nicely and they almost always will clean them out for us.
Rather than nerfing Unyielding Stance, just augment it. Make it better. Give it a "buff," if you will.
Yes, I am insane.
Look at it this way, when people take Unyielding Stance, they generally do one of two things: 6-slot it with Resistance and End Reduction enhancements, or leave it 1-slotted with Resist or End Rdx enhancements.
So, let's improve that.
Instead of Unyielding Stance immobilizing the tanker/scrapper, make it slow them to the slow cap: 10% of their movement rate. This would be akin to the epitomal tanker brute who, while being beset by many foes trying to hold him back, is slowly trudging his way defiantly across the battleground, step by step. For optional sick humor, leave immob. resistance out of Unyielding Stance. *evilgrin*
Now, there is no reason here to change anything about the defense bonuses or the resistance magnitudes of the power. Make UYS exclusive of any travel powers. Turning it on effectively shuts down Super Speed, Sprint, Hover, Fly, etc. Jumping is not possible with Unyielding Stance. The only way to speed up UYS is to effectively cripple its defensiveness. I've seen this recommended elsewhere, but allow the tanks to replace their End Rdx/Resist enhancements with run-speed enhancements. Give them a 6.67% boost per SO slotted, allowing them a maximum of 50% their base speed. That way, UYSers who want to be more mobile have to sacrifice their ability to shrug off attacks.
It makes complete sense to me, and doesn't require nerfing the power whatsoever. Tankers who want that mobility would get their own choice on whether they wanted to "nerf" themselves or not.
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There is no need to nerf scrapper damg resist. We only get the same damg resist as tankers if we SLOT THE HELL out of the powers like RPD/TI/Tough so that we do get it.
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Sorry, but this is not true. Here's how you max all resists but psi as a scrapper:
Permahasten (6 slots of recharge reducers)
Unstoppable (3 slots damage resist, 3 slots recharge reducers)
Resist Physical (Base slot)
Resist Fire/Cold (Base slot)
Resist Energies (Base slot)
That gives you permaunstoppable and 90% to everything but psi, same as a tank. Total cost is 10 slots, 5 for Unstoppable and 5 for Hasten (which you'd probably max out anyway).
It's ridiculously easy. It doesn't weaken scrapper offense at all. You don't even need a power pool.
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There is no need to nerf scrapper damg resist. We only get the same damg resist as tankers if we SLOT THE HELL out of the powers like RPD/TI/Tough so that we do get it. Which means we have to neglect other stuff for it. It's a give and take. We sacrifice needed slots for more damg resist. Theres no need to nerf Scrappers.
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sorry chum, your arguement holds no water due to the simple fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE for a tanker to reach the same kind of DPS that you, as a scrapper, can do yet it is ENTIRELY possible to reach the level of resistance as a tank.
is it tough to do? yep
do you need to sacrifice a little offense to do it? yuppers again.
However how can you justify that when NOTHING a tank can do can bring them into the ballpark with you damage-wise?
scrappers and tankers are supposed to be flip sides of the same coin, equal, but opposite.
Scrappers major in damage and minor in resistance, Tanks major in resistance and minor in damage.
Essentially, their abailities in the primaries and secondaries should be roughly equal. They should be as good at resisting damage as you are at dealing it, and conversly as good at dealing damage as you are at resisting it. that being said, can't you at least admit to the discrepency here?
Now to squash that Death Cast Bug that drives my Kinetics Defender up the wall!
NOTE: I posted this in the wrong thread, woops. You can ignore it.
I've always felt making Scrappers the Boss Killers was a bad design decision. You didn't give Tankers anything at the same time.
I honestly think one of the best ways to balance out Tankers and Scrappers would be by giving bosses and lts the same critical hit chance against Scrappers as Scrappers have against them. This way solo a Scrapper would have to do hit and run tactics, just like in the comics, but in a group the Tanker could hold aggro and take the beating while the Scrapper shreds away at the boss.
This wouldn't solve everything, obviously, but it would be a good start. I'm thinking a big critical hit chance against minions. Just entirely reverse the two melee ATs so a more defensive prone character would go tank while more offensive minded one would go Scrapper. Tankers take longer to kill but won't be getting killed to often while Scrappers kill much faster but are more prone to death.
One other solution I always thought made sense would be to make all Scrapper defensive powers +def and all Tanker +res. In the comics Tankers don't dodge anything, they get hit and shrug it off. The opposite is true with Scrappers who can't take the hits but can certainly dodge them.
You know... every time the design team has me ticked off in this game, they manage to come out golden. I offer my most humble apologies to them for any harsh words I may have posted.
I must also say - WOW States! You realy are a benchmark in the world of game designers. Every other MMO design team I have seen on an MMO should have to aprentice with you and your team to learn the RIGHT way to do it.
/bow
Statesman :
Tanker changes, at the moment, have a greater priority than Expansion 4's material. I made a mistake by not addressing these concerns earlier; I'm not going to compound it by simply saying "it'll happen sometime...."
Statesman :
I'll address those "unaddressed" issues above....
1. Untyped damage - There shouldn't be such a thing in the game. In other words, every damage has a "type", but the text in the chat windows does occaisonally say "Untyped." This is because we didn't want things like, say, the Vahzilok vomit, to be described as "fire". We'd eventually like it to be "toxic", but we haven't added that yet (and resistances to it in powers). I've asked Geko to recheck this to make sure he hasn't made any errors.
2. Ice Tankers WILL get Status Protection.
3. Mob hit point increase and the Endurance problems. Right now, we've seen that most players take Fitness and in the levels where the mob difficulty comes into play, they've slotted up Stamina to some degree. But we're monitoring things right now to see what effect is on those who don't have Stamina....
4. The US/Rooted problem. Yes, people hate being immobilized; it's on the list of things to look at it. But if we change them, there will be some nerfing of the power to compensate.
5. The Archetype description in character creation should be changed to say that they are the third best melee damage type in the game.
Statesman :
Dark Armor is being worked on currrently. I've seen some new stuff with my own eyes. Same with Stone Armor. We'd like to get that up some time after Update 3 goes live...but I can't make any promises.
Statesman :
1. We'll be changing Burn soon back to it's former version.
I am happy that we the tankers who I believe are the heart and soul of this game and who love to stand toe to toe in the trenches were others fear to tread - are finally getting some attention.
Some may say you got the fixes IN SPITE of your efforts. I say our passion and love of our Characters will make Cryptic a lot of money for a long time. These are the words we wanted to hear for a VERY long time. For those who fought for tanks and DA scrappers, Thank you.
Now Blizzard.