For those who say fighting for something is wrong

Freight_Train · 06-24-2008 09:49 AM

It has RISEN!!!

50 Invuln/SS Tank/EM

The Martyrs of Paragon/Fallen Martyrs

Anglican · 06-24-2008 10:42 AM

Just a note on dev hate and tanker changes:

1) Hot feet has fear, its one of the main uses of it on fire doms.

2) Strangely, almost every dev is accused of lying and being two faced, etc. Buff me and your are a great game designer, nerf me and you suck in every aspect of a human being.

3) Game balance and realism rarely are able to connect. Naming something "invulnerable" means they cant be hurt at all, while "willpower" means you can lose weight easily by just not eating what you like.

4) I like most of the changes that have happened since I joined. From unyielding becoming mobile, to stopping perma-hasten and perma-unstoppable, to being able to play villains, to the villain VEATS and new zones and TFs. Do I like all the changes and new stuff? No, but everything is continuing to improve. Frankly, Jack made what he wanted in a tank (an unhurtable brick meatshield with no offense), and then backed down when he saw it wasnt fun for people. If anything, I think he learned to not tell the player base that much because if anything changes they will scream bloody murder.

Which leads us to Positron and Castle. I like most of what they (or mainly the staff?) have done. They have boosted doms when the data showed they needed it, they have now buffed stalkers to make them more team viable, and I love the way they worked out the VEATs. I dont care for loot, but understand why they added IOs.

Invul may need some slight changes. Lots of other stuff also needs some changes. Invul is viable, maybe not as good as WP. Its not an emergency, and the numbers will provide the push to make changes if its that big a difference. At some point, you are tweaking rather than fixing, and at that point, you are just rearranging which set is best, not really improving the game.

Sorciere · 06-24-2008 10:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
3) Game balance and realism rarely are able to connect. Naming something "invulnerable" means they cant be hurt at all, while "willpower" means you can lose weight easily by just not eating what you like.

[/ QUOTE ]

So that is why my Willpower tank has an hourglass figure, even with the waist slider being pushed to the right! Never saw the 90% chocolate resistance in SoW until now.

Midgardener · 06-24-2008 11:20 AM

*eyes Johnny_Butane's reg date and post count*

*eyes own reg date and post count*

Wow, I'm a forum slacker. Guess I'd better get cracking on the kvetching, chop-chop!

A guide to the deranged, degraded inhabitants of the forums.

Electronite · 06-24-2008 01:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
3) Game balance and realism rarely are able to connect. Naming something "invulnerable" means they cant be hurt at all, while "willpower" means you can lose weight easily by just not eating what you like.

[/ QUOTE ]

And that's just in the Tanker AT. A singularity would be pulling people into it, not pushing them away. And singularities would affect everything around them, including light itself, growing more powerful with every gram of mass they accumulate.

Quite frankly, each server should have been shut down the moment the first Gravity controller created a Singularity to simulate the desruction of the planet. But the devs obviously just don't care about realism.

Sylph_Knight · 06-24-2008 03:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Not that it matters anyway, Johnny. If they give you what you want for invul and Super Strength, you'll just look for something new to [censored] about.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd put bets on that! I would simply DIE if Johnny went from obsessive complaint fanatic to jolly forum-goer would such changes were to ever go through. *laughs*

It would mean the end of days.

Raid Leader of Task Force Vendetta "Steel 70", who defeated the first nine Drop Ships in the Second Rikti War.
70 Heroes, 9 Drop Ships, 7 Minutes. The Aliens never knew what hit them.
Now soloing: GM-Class enemy Adamaster, with a Tanker!

Cycloid · 06-24-2008 03:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]

He seemed to want them to be even more meatshieldy than they are currently, while at the same time having less damage

[/ QUOTE ]

Statesman insisted on increased Tanker damage over the balance-related objections of several of his colleagues, as documented in a couple of interviews.

Johnny_Butane · 06-24-2008 03:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

He seemed to want them to be even more meatshieldy than they are currently, while at the same time having less damage

[/ QUOTE ]

Statesman insisted on increased Tanker damage over the balance-related objections of several of his colleagues, as documented in a couple of interviews.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to see those interviews.

.

Johnny_Butane · 06-24-2008 03:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd put bets on that! I would simply DIE if Johnny went from obsessive complaint fanatic to jolly forum-goer would such changes were to ever go through.

[/ QUOTE ]

You would be surprised at how little it would take for me to stop hounding the devs. That is the point. It's a trifling matter that the devs will not budge on.

Not because they can't, but because they refuse to.

.

Aett_Thorn · 06-24-2008 03:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd put bets on that! I would simply DIE if Johnny went from obsessive complaint fanatic to jolly forum-goer would such changes were to ever go through.

[/ QUOTE ]

You would be surprised at how little it would take for me to stop hounding the devs. That is the point. It's a trifling matter that the devs will not budge on.

Not because they can't, but because they refuse to.

.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, the refuse to extremely overpower Invuln/SS Tankers and throw them out of balance with every other set combo in the game. That is a trifling matter indeed.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

Johnny_Butane · 06-24-2008 04:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd put bets on that! I would simply DIE if Johnny went from obsessive complaint fanatic to jolly forum-goer would such changes were to ever go through.

[/ QUOTE ]

You would be surprised at how little it would take for me to stop hounding the devs. That is the point. It's a trifling matter that the devs will not budge on.

Not because they can't, but because they refuse to.

.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, the refuse to extremely overpower Invuln/SS Tankers and throw them out of balance with every other set combo in the game. That is a trifling matter indeed.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the Wizard got for you, Strawman?

.

Golden_Ace · 06-24-2008 05:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
11/28/04 to 6/23/08

Now that's some major thread necromancy there...

[/ QUOTE ]

Impressive. I'll have to let frog know about this one.

1532

[color=gold][b][size=5]♪ Sometimes you feel like a Tank, Sometimes you don't! ♪[/size][/color][/b]

[url=http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=114726][color=black][b][size=5]Moon [color=red]Hazard [color=black]Zone![/size][/color][/color][/color][/b][/url]

Aett_Thorn · 06-24-2008 08:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd put bets on that! I would simply DIE if Johnny went from obsessive complaint fanatic to jolly forum-goer would such changes were to ever go through.

[/ QUOTE ]

You would be surprised at how little it would take for me to stop hounding the devs. That is the point. It's a trifling matter that the devs will not budge on.

Not because they can't, but because they refuse to.

.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, the refuse to extremely overpower Invuln/SS Tankers and throw them out of balance with every other set combo in the game. That is a trifling matter indeed.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the Wizard got for you, Strawman?

.

[/ QUOTE ]

How about numbers to back up my position? Something you've never shown for yours.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

Talen Lee · 06-24-2008 08:38 PM

Johnny is seriously the best reason to visit the Tanker board. It's like the opening thirty seconds of Fight Club whenever he posts.

Heroes, Villains ♦ Reviews ♦ Retrospect

Laughsalot · 06-24-2008 08:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
All "at the cost of" having slightly less of a taunt duration in it's aura

[/ QUOTE ]

Invincibility has a taunt duration of what? I think it's 13 seconds, while RttC has a duration of 1.25 seconds.

In what universe is over 90% less, slightly less?

General_Axis · 06-24-2008 08:49 PM

Well, it depends.

Is it really 90 PERCENT less effective, or just 12 seconds?

I mean, if Invulns taunt aura lasted 40 seconds, then WPs would last 28 seconds.

Not 90% anymore, but still 12 seconds less.

Who's to say if it's supposed to be a percentile integer or a numerical one?

Edit: And because willpower's effectiveness is unchanged depending on the set you compare it against since not all taunt auras are created equal, it's obviously not simply "90%"

Laughsalot · 06-24-2008 08:53 PM

I never said it was 90% less effective? I said it was over 90% less, meaning the taunt duration lasts 1.25 seconds for RttC, and 13 seconds for Invincible.

Of course that's taking base numbers. If you were to slot both with taunt enhancements the numbers would change even more.

General_Axis · 06-24-2008 08:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I never said it was 90% less effective? I said it was over 90% less

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously?

Laughsalot · 06-24-2008 09:02 PM

Yes seriously.

If I was taking about effectiveness I would have said that RttC is 1/4 less effective than Invincibility because that has a Mag of 4, and RttC has a Mag of 3.

Police_Drone_TH · 06-24-2008 09:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes seriously.

If I was taking about effectiveness I would have said that RttC is 1/4 less effective than Invincibility because that has a Mag of 4, and RttC has a Mag of 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's all in how you word it. Saying WP's taunt arua is 75% the strength of Invul's makes more sense, than saying "1/4 less effective".

General_Axis · 06-24-2008 09:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes seriously.

If I was taking about effectiveness I would have said that RttC is 1/4 less effective than Invincibility because that has a Mag of 4, and RttC has a Mag of 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except taunt mag has almost no effect on the effectiveness of taunt.

Police_Drone_TH · 06-24-2008 09:04 PM

Query: How much of an impact does Taunt Mag have?

Laughsalot · 06-24-2008 09:10 PM

So what does it have an effect on then?

General_Axis · 06-24-2008 09:15 PM

Here. Taunt effectiveness is 1000*taunt duration

[ QUOTE ]

So what does it have an effect on then?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can find this answer, let me know. Nothing as far as the knowledge we have tells us.

Sarrate · 06-24-2008 09:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

So what does it have an effect on then?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can find this answer, let me know. Nothing as far as the knowledge we have tells us.

[/ QUOTE ]

MAG determines whether a mob is effected by the taunt. If a mob has taunt protection (like BP masks) then the MAG would come into play. For the most part, mobs don't have taunt protection, so it doesn't make a difference.

---
edit: Source!

[ QUOTE ]
All magnitude does for taunt is determine if the Taunt is strong enough to affect the target. It's generally not a factor (unless you are fighting +5's and relying only on gauntlet effects or Pool Powers.)

[/ QUOTE ]
---

Also, after playing my WP/Fire again tonight, let me state my frustration with RttC's taunt; it's horrible. I doubt I'd make a WP Tank again because of it.