For those who say fighting for something is wrong
By
63rd_Assassin,
Posted on: 2004-11-22 18:37 in Tankers
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Well, it depends.
Is it really 90 PERCENT less effective, or just 12 seconds?
I mean, if Invulns taunt aura lasted 40 seconds, then WPs would last 28 seconds.
Not 90% anymore, but still 12 seconds less.
Who's to say if it's supposed to be a percentile integer or a numerical one?
Edit: And because willpower's effectiveness is unchanged depending on the set you compare it against since not all taunt auras are created equal, it's obviously not simply "90%"
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1. Who tanks entirely on their aura? Holding aggro is a function of not only your aura, but the Taunt power itself, directly attacking and causing foes damage and the radial effect of gauntlet. Your aura is but one of four means of grabbing aggro, and it's not even the most potent way on any set.
2. Castle has stated that RttC's lower taunt is intentional, but I strongly suspect that's NOT because it's being used as a balance point. "No Martha, don't take the will power Tanker, he's got a lower taunt aura mag..."
Yeah. I don't see that conversation happening.
No, it's more likely a by-prouct of the set being shared by the other ATs and the devs wanting to keep the conversion minimal as well as how often the power ticks for regen.
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Well, it depends.
Is it really 90 PERCENT less effective, or just 12 seconds?
I mean, if Invulns taunt aura lasted 40 seconds, then WPs would last 28 seconds.
Not 90% anymore, but still 12 seconds less.
Who's to say if it's supposed to be a percentile integer or a numerical one?
Edit: And because willpower's effectiveness is unchanged depending on the set you compare it against since not all taunt auras are created equal, it's obviously not simply "90%"
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1. Who tanks entirely on their aura? Holding aggro is a function of not only your aura, but the Taunt power itself, directly attacking and causing foes damage and the radial effect of gauntlet. Your aura is but one of four means of grabbing aggro, and it's not even the most potent way on any set.
2. Castle has stated that RttC's lower taunt is intentional, but I strongly suspect that's NOT because it's being used as a balance point. "No Martha, don't take the will power Tanker, he's got a lower taunt aura mag..."
Yeah. I don't see that conversation happening.
No, it's more likely a by-prouct of the set being shared by the other ATs and the devs wanting to keep the conversion minimal as well as how often the power ticks for regen.
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I've no idea where you got what you said, out of what I said.
I was pointing out that a set's taunt aura and a set's ability to grab and hold aggro are not the same thing; something people who are debating WP's pros and cons often forget.
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I was pointing out that a set's taunt aura and a set's ability to grab and hold aggro are not the same thing; something people who are debating WP's pros and cons often forget.
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I agree.
A lot of the problem is the lump between the seat and the moniter.
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I was pointing out that a set's taunt aura and a set's ability to grab and hold aggro are not the same thing; something people who are debating WP's pros and cons often forget.
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Except, you did that by bringing in the secondary. So, it was no longer a discussion of just WP/ versus just Invuln/. An Ice/Fire is going to be better at holding aggro than an Ice/EM. Therefore, by bringing in complicating factors, you've changed the discussion away from the faults of WP to faults of a certain combination of primary and secondary powers.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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I was pointing out that a set's taunt aura and a set's ability to grab and hold aggro are not the same thing; something people who are debating WP's pros and cons often forget.
.
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Except, you did that by bringing in the secondary. So, it was no longer a discussion of just WP/ versus just Invuln/. An Ice/Fire is going to be better at holding aggro than an Ice/EM. Therefore, by bringing in complicating factors, you've changed the discussion away from the faults of WP to faults of a certain combination of primary and secondary powers.
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I think it's safe to assume that all tankers will have a secondary.
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I think it's safe to assume that all tankers will have a secondary.
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But not exactly representing FACT when you decide to compare primaries on their own merits.
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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I think it's safe to assume that all tankers will have a secondary.
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But not exactly representing FACT when you decide to compare primaries on their own merits.
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You have to weigh the facts with logic. Aggro management isn't just what Tanker Primary powers are for. The taunt aura is but one small tool. So while that aura may be 90% "worse," it may only negatively impact your aggro handling abilities 5%.
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Actually what I've found is that my aggro aura does something like 50 - 60% of the heavy lifting on a stone/Axe tanker, and approximately that much on my fire/SS (it doesn't have taunt, or it would be less than that, Footstomp is pretty nice for aggro management, but it was a lot more before footstomp), for a vareity of reasons. It's the thing that ticks most often to the highest number of foes, and it's the thing that is always on. You have to activate Taunt, you have to activate attacks. If you have your aura running and you assume it hits, then you can taunt foes while slapping another in the face. It's probably a good tankers best tool at holding aggro.
So it's not not not a net loss of just 5%. At least not for my playstyle.
And I don't find a lot of people who say I'm a bad tank...quite the opposite.
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
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I think it's safe to assume that all tankers will have a secondary.
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But not exactly representing FACT when you decide to compare primaries on their own merits.
[/ QUOTE ]
You have to weigh the facts with logic. Aggro management isn't just what Tanker Primary powers are for. The taunt aura is but one small tool. So while that aura may be 90% "worse," it may only negatively impact your aggro handling abilities 5%.
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From my experience, taunt auras play a much, much bigger role than just "5%."
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I think it's safe to assume that all tankers will have a secondary.
[/ QUOTE ]
But not exactly representing FACT when you decide to compare primaries on their own merits.
[/ QUOTE ]
You have to weigh the facts with logic. Aggro management isn't just what Tanker Primary powers are for. The taunt aura is but one small tool. So while that aura may be 90% "worse," it may only negatively impact your aggro handling abilities 5%.
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are you saying that a wp/fire tanker will only be 5% less effective at controlling aggro than an ice/fire tanker? or an inv/fire or... basically any other set/fire?
I hate to say this, but I wouldn't consider what willpower does in groups to be only 5% less effective. 5% AS effective I could buy, since I have watched an eb/ blaster with a single attack (power burst) peel the aggro off of a wp tanker who had been beating on the mob consistently as well as taunting it for several seconds. This is not an onconsistent result, this happens a LOT.
Experts agree that the number 4 is 20% less effective than the number 5
RttC's taunt has a static 1.25s duration against even-level mobs, regardless of level.
The duration of all other aggro auras scales with level, with Invincibility getting a 25% bonus to taunt duration. Most aggro auras cap out at 13.5s duration at level 50, Invincibility at 16.875s (the formula is 0.3*(level-5) for non-Invincibility, non-RttC auras, 0.375*(level-5) for Invincibility).
Note that furthermore taunt duration is reduced by purple patch resistance. Thus, unslotted, RttC's taunt is reduced to 0.8125s against +3s and to 0.6s against +4s. Because the taunt is refreshed only once per second, that creates aggro problems, unless RttC is slotted for Taunt duration. (Against +5 or higher mobs, it is all but impossible in practice to get the effective taunt duration up to 1s+.)