Disappointment in the Update Schedule
By
8_Ball,
Posted on: 2006-11-21 24:55 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
The update schedule actually makes sense from an engineering viewpoint. The first few updates were basically getting the game finished, so you'd expect them to come out more quickly. Then comes the lead-in to CoV, where you get some new content, but probbaly a lot of under-the-hood work to make the games integrated. Those will come along more slowly as they're more complicated. Then the CoV release, and now we're bringing CoH up to the new standard of CoV--again, new content, but significant rework of old content too, which is costly in terms of time, thought not as flashy as new zones.
At this point, the two halves of CoX should be relatively in sync, and I'd suspect we could start seeing mini-releases at a much faster pace.
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The delays are mainly because there is alot more being jammed into each issue, not because of anything you have listed.
Looking at the number of issues isn't really fair especially when you consider that issues like 'Colosseum' had almost nothing in the way of content added and 'A Council of War' simply added the Kheldians and their story arcs. Issue 8 is adding safeguard missions, veteran rewards, the new costume options, new powers, a whole new zone and its giving powers an overhaul.
In terms of raw bulletpoint features the issues might have more of a gap between them but they contain a great deal more additions.
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And this is the annoying thing for me. By jamming all this stuff in each issue, they're holding up stuff that's ready to go. Wouldn't it be much better to release the stuff as it's ready? For example, if Faultline is ready to go, but Vet Rewards isn't, release Faultline now, and then take the time to fix Vet Rewards. Every issue, they jam stuff in that holds up the stuff that's ready to go.
Smaller updates more often please.
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/Agreed. I'd rather have smaller mini-updates closer together. Though from a programming point of view I can see how having larger one time updates would make it easier to find bugs and such.
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The delays are mainly because there is alot more being jammed into each issue, not because of anything you have listed.
Looking at the number of issues isn't really fair especially when you consider that issues like 'Colosseum' had almost nothing in the way of content added and 'A Council of War' simply added the Kheldians and their story arcs. Issue 8 is adding safeguard missions, veteran rewards, the new costume options, new powers, a whole new zone and its giving powers an overhaul.
In terms of raw bulletpoint features the issues might have more of a gap between them but they contain a great deal more additions.
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And this is the annoying thing for me. By jamming all this stuff in each issue, they're holding up stuff that's ready to go. Wouldn't it be much better to release the stuff as it's ready? For example, if Faultline is ready to go, but Vet Rewards isn't, release Faultline now, and then take the time to fix Vet Rewards. Every issue, they jam stuff in that holds up the stuff that's ready to go.
Smaller updates more often please.
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/Agreed. I'd rather have smaller mini-updates closer together. Though from a programming point of view I can see how having larger one time updates would make it easier to find bugs and such.
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and I am pretty sure they have told us they have different developers for different parts of the game. so group A is doing costumes, B is doing story arcs, etc.
They would have crossover in some parts but you'd also have areas of stand-aloneness yet in order for them to do internal testing it would all be together.
If A and B didn't mix and come out together it is possible that releasing B after A would be a mess.
Just a thought.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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/Agreed. I'd rather have smaller mini-updates closer together. Though from a programming point of view I can see how having larger one time updates would make it easier to find bugs and such.
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Some incremental changes can roll out without extensive testing, but I promise you there's a whole process that gears up to test an "issue" update, and splitting it up into smaller pieces might well increase the resources required significantly.
I'm fine with longer times if there's more content; but looking at I8, it feels less significant by far than I2 or I3, despite taking twice as long. Skills feels like a system significant enough that it might require a longer delay, and if it is "mostly done" already and I9 is on us quickly (I'm thinking like a 2-month or less delay like I5), then it will feel much better - since the average of I8+I9 will decline to 4 months. But I think 3 months is a very smart schedule...
(1) Month 1: you're playing with goodies
(2) Month 2: you're perhaps growing bored with goodies, but some of them are fun, and you're starting to hear about the next update
(3) Month 3: with nothing on the horizon, the short-attention-span crowd has let their sub lapse. However, on the 3-month schedule, the next issue is rolling onto the test server, and they keep it.
(4) Repeat
Let me add that I'm not in this crowd; I'm an annual sub. I'm also just a big cheerleader for the game, and I hope the devs realize how much the update schedule impacts interest... although I'm not sure it's one of those things that can undo damage done. That is, I think updates KEEP players, but they don't necessarily get them back. I know lots of people who played CoH nonstop through about I4, then quite because the updates got anemic. They returned for CoV, and a lot of them didn't even come back for I7 because it took so long. Another subset returned for I7, but only for a month. Basically, they moved on. And realistically, there's not a lot of room in our lives for more than 1 MMO for most of us. If you like this one, you'll stay until you don't; when you leave, you probably won't come back unless you're only leaving to "try" another and it is disappointing. (I know a lot of people took brief breaks from CoX to try WoW, AA, or DDO, and returned because they found them lacking; I did, although my sub was active even when I was away)
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Honestly, I dont give a rats [censored] about Vet rewards or arena Kiosks In pocket D. Police bands and safeguards Plus faultlines the only what I consider REAL content. I could make 18 million different costumes but that wont stop me from repeating the same missions over and over again with different powersets. The game needs content not just new costumes.
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And you are getting content. A good amount of it.
Man people need to learn to chill out.
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Content for a level 15 toon I dont have. And some generic mishes with temp powers. Telling people to chill out doesnt come off very well, this thread raises alot of good points and isnt just another whiners thread.
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Honestly, I dont give a rats [censored] about Vet rewards or arena Kiosks In pocket D. Police bands and safeguards Plus faultlines the only what I consider REAL content. I could make 18 million different costumes but that wont stop me from repeating the same missions over and over again with different powersets. The game needs content not just new costumes.
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And you are getting content. A good amount of it.
Man people need to learn to chill out.
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Content for a level 15 toon I dont have. And some generic mishes with temp powers. Telling people to chill out doesnt come off very well, this thread raises alot of good points and isnt just another whiners thread.
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I have to kinda agree here. We are, yet again, getting another zone in area that has plenty of content and the higher level players are yet again getting back burnered. The level of disappointment that cascaded throughout these forums when Croatoa was announced with it's level range was huge. There was a trend that was being followed (Hollows, Striga, Croatoa) that certainly seems to have been ignored here. And while heroes in the 38 and higher range can certainly do Safeguard and scanner missions, it merely feels like a band aid fix when something useful could have easily be done for those characters in the 40ish range, where varied contact is lacking and has been unchanged since it's release.
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The delays are mainly because there is alot more being jammed into each issue, not because of anything you have listed.
Looking at the number of issues isn't really fair especially when you consider that issues like 'Colosseum' had almost nothing in the way of content added and 'A Council of War' simply added the Kheldians and their story arcs. Issue 8 is adding safeguard missions, veteran rewards, the new costume options, new powers, a whole new zone and its giving powers an overhaul.
In terms of raw bulletpoint features the issues might have more of a gap between them but they contain a great deal more additions.
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Small correction. I3 "A Council of War" only had the first two or three kheldian arcs. The post level 20 or so arcs were added in I4. I3 added Striga though, with all its associated story arcs and two TFs. I3 also added the difficulty slider, Global Chat, and the Calvin Scott TF, stacking armors, made Fear useable, and added APPs.
Zloth's update history Is a good reference to see what was added in each Issue.
I8 has no new powers aside from the vet reward powers, which are simply copies of existing temp powers. There's no "overhaul of powers" either. I don't know where you come up with that. Are you referring to the graphics updates to a few powers?
All in all, I8 has significantly less new content than I7, and yet it is taking just as long.
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I think it's a bit of an oversight to think that just because some things are veteran rewards, they don't count as content.
Let's face it: wings and trenchcoats have been asked for since launch. Now we get them. Many people in the past have made posts that they'd accept a whole issue of just costume updates.
I think that's what's the problem here: people casting off their own expectations as those of everyone else's. Just because you don't look forward to new costumes doesn't mean someone else out there isn't coming back to CoH for I8 just because of them. A lot of people wrote off Issue 4's costume pieces because of personal prejudice. It just comes off as people trying to claim they know what everyone wants.
Yes, Faultline is a weird leveled zone. But speaking as someone who levels a character to 50 controller through I5/I6 and has a level 34 defender now, I'm not seeing this crunch in the late 30s anymore, especially with Striga and Croatoa. All you have to do is time it out more. Grab a level 30-35 story arc just before dinging 36. Pump up difficulty to keep it even con or better. With my controller, I was doing level 30-35 arcs clear until 37, then I had more than enough time to do the 35-40 stuff without even touching the Envoy of Shadows. PvP Zone missions and safeguard/police band missions will make this even easier.
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Just because you don't look forward to new costumes doesn't mean someone else out there isn't coming back to CoH for I8 just because of them.
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*Raises hand*
I'm hoping to find any excuse to use a belly shirt in a costume.
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PvP Zone missions and safeguard/police band missions will make this even easier.
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PvP Zone and Safeguard/Scanner missions are not the same as story arcs or zone specific missions. Where is the expansion of the greater story for the 40s? It is not there. I have several heroes in the 40's but have to do the same missions over and over with them. we need more content for the higher levels and were led to believe it would come in later issues. Now we get Faultline, which goes opposite to the trend we were seeing. Remember when Croatoa was released? We were told, by CuppaJo I believe, to look at the trend the new zones were following. Faultline goes against this trend.
When Issue Eight drops I will be playing a hero for the first time since CoV was released. By the time I get that hero to the 40s it will be, yet again, the same old story.
From my persepctive the Faultline zoen does make sense in level range.
FAR more players run through the pre-30's content multiple times compared to the higehr levels.
Now dotn get me wrong Im looking forward to a revamped shard and a whole new set of arcs for the 40+ area.
Alts a plenty means we need to keep the pre-30 game fresh.
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Just because you don't look forward to new costumes doesn't mean someone else out there isn't coming back to CoH for I8 just because of them. A lot of people wrote off Issue 4's costume pieces because of personal prejudice. It just comes off as people trying to claim they know what everyone wants.
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I don't think anybody is complaining about getting new costume pieces in a new Issue. It just feels a bit disappointing that after getting someone whose principal focus is creating costume pieces (Sexy Jay) and 100+ pages of new costume ideas, we only get a couple of new pieces. (Nowhere near the amount we got in I4).
Also, I8 taking now as much time as I7 to get to live, it feels wrong that it took as much time to design 10 levels of content for the 15 to 25 range as it took for the 40 to 50 range. Remember, it takes way more content (missions, contacts and simply put xp) to go from 40 to 50 than 15 to 25.
And while people may be unhappy about them, the PPPs were really offering new cool-looking powers. I8 doesn't have any of that.
So, what is taking so much time ?
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Honestly, I dont give a rats [censored] about Vet rewards or arena Kiosks In pocket D. Police bands and safeguards Plus faultlines the only what I consider REAL content. I could make 18 million different costumes but that wont stop me from repeating the same missions over and over again with different powersets. The game needs content not just new costumes.
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And you are getting content. A good amount of it.
Man people need to learn to chill out.
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Content for a level 15 toon I dont have. And some generic mishes with temp powers. Telling people to chill out doesnt come off very well, this thread raises alot of good points and isnt just another whiners thread.
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Neither does swearing and saying that the content they are adding is not what you consider to be content.
Everything added to the game is content. A new hairstyle? Content. A new story arc? Content. Just because it's not content you won't or don't want to use, doesn't mean that it is not still content.
I have a few 50's, I'd love to see some new content for them, but I'm also willing to wait so they can make whatever it happens to be worth while and not just another zone or something that I will get sick of.
I avoid Striga now, done it too many times. I am getting sick of Croatoa. I neither like nor hate the Hollows. But it's still all content none the less, just not stuff I'm using anymore.
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So how long will a new hair style keep you busy? Isn't that what "content" is supposed to be. I would understand your point if I was talking like a sailor but one [Censored] doesnt constitute raising the point of swearing. Honestly, I think you just want to defend the devs and the game even when they are wrong, or arent delivering enough.
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Can I cry about whiners?
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wired: just sayin' about just sayers
tired: crying about cryers
expired: whining about whiners
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From my persepctive the Faultline zoen does make sense in level range.
FAR more players run through the pre-30's content multiple times compared to the higehr levels.
Now dotn get me wrong Im looking forward to a revamped shard and a whole new set of arcs for the 40+ area.
Alts a plenty means we need to keep the pre-30 game fresh.
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Its an interesting question... Do people roll alts and play through the early game more often in part because there is far more diversity of content in the early game than there is in the high level game? The increased XP to level as you advance certainly plays a role too I'm sure.
Would not adding more diversity to the 35+ content perhaps encourage more people to play through the higher end of the game more often?
I do hope Cryptic isn't simply looking at the level ranges of characters people are playing and not thinking critically about the possible reasons behind those numbers.
I should note that I, personally, have never run out of missions in the 30-40 gap that some have enountered. But I recognize that its a problem for some folks.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
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'A Council of War' simply added the Kheldians and their story arcs.
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And Striga Isle, don't forget.
And EPPs for heroes.
And Lusca, the Ghost Ship and the Clockwork Paladin.
Issue 3 did a lot more than 'simply' add Khelds.
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QFE
I smell an honest brainfart.
*lights candle*
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So how long will a new hair style keep you busy? Isn't that what "content" is supposed to be. I would understand your point if I was talking like a sailor but one [Censored] doesnt constitute raising the point of swearing. Honestly, I think you just want to defend the devs and the game even when they are wrong, or arent delivering enough.
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It raises it just as much as me saying chill out.
I guess I'm just one of those people who is happy we actually get new things. It doesn't bother me if it's stuck somewhere in the game that I won't venture, at least it's something. And I know evenutally they will get around to something I will use.
Do I agree with the devs holding off as long as they have with new high level content? Nope, I think it's been a long enough time since lvl 50's have actually had something new to do. But I'm not going to gripe about it because that really doesn't get anything done.
Maybe playing an MMO where the devs took more away from the game then they added has made me appreciate getting updates more.
�Alas, regardless of their doom, the little victims play!� - Thomas Gray
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'A Council of War' simply added the Kheldians and their story arcs.
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And Striga Isle, don't forget.
And EPPs for heroes.
And Lusca, the Ghost Ship and the Clockwork Paladin.
Issue 3 did a lot more than 'simply' add Khelds.
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Your facts hold no sway over our revisionist history!! 
The update schedule is terrible. I play EQ2 mostly, now, [hate WoW] and they're on their what... 29th content upgrade, And two expansions down?
I got very tired of waiting on i8, and this schedule is just getting longer and longer. With the invention system being brand new, I forsee plenty more problems to be had that can and will delay it.
Dawnslayer on Virtue.
Well I think they are either slacking, or just dont have enough people working. WoW is almost on its 12th update I believe and it came out 6 months later than CoH.
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Would not adding more diversity to the 35+ content perhaps encourage more people to play through the higher end of the game more often?
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I think that might help, but mostly for the people who already have characters in or near the level range.
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I do hope Cryptic isn't simply looking at the level ranges of characters people are playing and not thinking critically about the possible reasons behind those numbers.
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The greater issue may be leveling speed vs. rewards/carrots. The pace in the 30s slows significantly. Couple that with new powers (one of the biggest carrots the game offers) switching to once every three levels and I suspect a lot of players simply run out of gas and abandon alts once they pass the 20s.
The 30s could use more content and a flattened leveling curve similar to the 40s.
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I should note that I, personally, have never run out of missions in the 30-40 gap that some have enountered. But I recognize that its a problem for some folks.
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I was fine in CoH but my dominator, running in a duo at the Vicious difficulty completely exhausted all contact missions at level 38. I was quite surprised when it happened, actually.
I'm all for critiquing CoH, but I don't how relevant it is to make many comparisons to WoW. WoW exists and operates on a whole different level from most every other MMO due its bewildering level of popularity. If Cryptic had the same amount of cash flow as Blizzard does, it would be more likely that they'd be able to spend their way out of development creep. As it is, even WoW is notably slowing down its feature output like every other maturing MMO product out there. Two words: Burning Crusade.
I havent read the thread yet with the exception of the OP so I apologize if this perspective has already been discussed. I personally look at it from an average standpoint;
Game release = April 28, 2004 to Nov 28, 2006 = 31 months
8 Issues give us an average of an issue just less then every four months and that doesnt seem all too bad to me. Granted, if the next two issues hit the six month mark then we will obviously see that average grow but I am not personally ready to start the signal fires of discontent and doom (for lack of a better word).
I absolutely do look forward to new content but, considering both games and what they currently offer as well as my own possibly slower play style, maybe im not quite the model player but for what its worth. Im happy.
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The delays are mainly because there is alot more being jammed into each issue, not because of anything you have listed.
Looking at the number of issues isn't really fair especially when you consider that issues like 'Colosseum' had almost nothing in the way of content added and 'A Council of War' simply added the Kheldians and their story arcs. Issue 8 is adding safeguard missions, veteran rewards, the new costume options, new powers, a whole new zone and its giving powers an overhaul.
In terms of raw bulletpoint features the issues might have more of a gap between them but they contain a great deal more additions.
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And this is the annoying thing for me. By jamming all this stuff in each issue, they're holding up stuff that's ready to go. Wouldn't it be much better to release the stuff as it's ready? For example, if Faultline is ready to go, but Vet Rewards isn't, release Faultline now, and then take the time to fix Vet Rewards. Every issue, they jam stuff in that holds up the stuff that's ready to go.
Smaller updates more often please.