City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Disappointment in the Update Schedule

8_Ball

By 8_Ball,
Posted on: 2006-11-21 24:55 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

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We should not DEMAND that they produce results based on our timing but rely upon their timing

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The problem is, lately, the devs timing has been well off.....well off.

Remember, they're the ones hinting at quarterly issues, release dates in certain months, etc....not us.

As was already said, the bug issues and problems SHOULD be factored into their planning already. So, their timing should be a bit more accurate. Their "cryptic" hints at when new stuff will be released (on the boards and in articles) suggest they are not doing so.

 

Posted

there is little doubt that the slow releases are hurting this game more and more. right now there is two complaints about i8 that conflict with the devs plans for issues, one i8 is small and that i8 is taking to long. they want smaller updates more often but right now its just small updates with about the same timeframe.

its sad to see an SG fall apart cause active members take time off for new issues or while waiting for things like the CoP trial and base raids to be fixed.

cryptic is awesome, ncsoft not so much.

The Kronos has a hold n00b!

 

Posted

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* Increased game complexity (that is, issues contain features for both Heroes and Villains; also may include bugs caused by enhancing engine features, such as PhysX support and advanced graphics)

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Sounds most likely to me. I7 was mostly late because of Mayhem Mission tech and all that PhysX stuff, if I remember rightly.

The more innovation there is, the later the issue seems to come. Adding straightforward 'content', like zones and missions, doesn't seem to snarl things up in the same way. The new Faultline doesn't look like it played much of a part in delaying I8.

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But the hero "protect" missions aren't brand new....they're a copy of the mayhem missions...shouldn't that have helped make them a bit easier?


Being the crazy conspiracy theorist that I am, I lean more towards the "publisher and developer have moved their focus away from this game" theory. Lots of lost staff, lots of communication loss, no major marketing campaigns, all suggest to me that they (NCSoft and Cryptic) have moved on...if not in body, then at least in soul.

 

Posted

I have no problem with them taking time to work bugs out but it gets kinda crazy when they say it'll be out in september nd as of today it still isn't.

I just wish they'd be more carefull with what they say regarding releases.

 

Posted

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Yep...considering that I9 will be considerably larger than I8 I would easily wager a guess at a May-June launch for it...hell, by then they'll have to come up with new Vet rewards to go past the 3 year mark.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha! Beat yourprediction by two hours!

 

Posted

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I suspect we'll never know. This qualifies largely as a rant, since I don't really expect devs to post about their staffing configurations or comment on this. I mean, it's obviously been cause for concern since I7 went really, really long... and yet, about the only comment was, "8 months? I sure hope it isn't that long" from a dev regarding I8.

Anyhow, I don't want to sound completely unhappy. I continue to enjoy the game a lot. Given the hours I spend playing, the $24/month for the two accounts is a blip. But there is this vague feeling of staleness that creeps over it when the updates take so long (I7, I8) or feel anemically lacking on content (I4, for example; which was pretty much only PvP, which quickly manifested so many problems that took a while to fix that it didn't even feel to me like it added anything, even though today I *like* PvP quite a bit). I guess I just want to know what happened to the robust feeling of the updates from the first 9 months or so. Did CoV cause the slow up? And if so, does abandoning plans for more boxed expansions mean the update schedule will begin to look like it's robust former self, or after all the years of development and the 2.5 years of being live, is Cryptic just starting to siphon off resources from the game to plan for End-of-Lifing it in favor of future projects?

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Your post is definitely not a rant. It's actually very well put together and very constructive. The only sad part is that you are completely right on all your points.
I think it's important the development team sees such posts, because they come from people who actually care about this game. There are way too many things happening right now around cryptic at the same time (Marvel mmo announcement, I8 release delayed from september to end of November and perceived as "light", devs leaving) for us, long time fans, to feel very confident. Let's hope it's just a temporary lack of ressources.(their job offer list is still impressive...)

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Posted

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I guess I look at it as the game goes and grows the complexity makes it harder and harder to add meaningful content.

Which got me thinking: If the game were frozen, never to change, how many would stay and play anyway? Besides me.

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I would be in for a few more months, but then I will have seen what there is to see and move on. With no anger mind you, I'd just be done. MMOs simply cannot reach a point where they are stagnant or people can and will leave.

I do wish the devs had made their September launch of Issue 8. This makes me fear we won't see Issue 9 until at least May. I'm resigned to the fact that we will get our anniversary respec with Issue 9's launch.

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I think a ballpark figure of May 2007 for Issue 9 is reasonable. It introduces new tech into the game - Inventions - and both Issue 7 and Issue 8 seem to have suffered long delays because of new tech.

I have a level 42 villain, I'm eager to see what awaits 42-50. I have some lowbie alts I'm having fun with. I want to take a hero through the new Faultline and the vet rewards add a nice combo of utility and fluff, so I won't be heading off from the game soon. But once I've exhausted those things and if I9 is still looking to be months away, it may give me pause.

Six months or more between updates is just too long, especially if Cryptic wants to retain longterm players. I'd be happy to see smaller updates if it meant we'd see them on a more timely basis.

Still, I'm here and still having fun. For now.

 

Posted

There's a fine line between reasonable and unreasonable. Six months is a long time and probably pushing it. Anything more than that is simply too long, and can't possibly be good for a subscription based business. Just my opinion there.

 

Posted

Just to add bump to this post and express my disappoint in the update schedule.

COH/COV Developers, take a lesson from World of Warcraft and make your updates more frequent. I know someone is going to yell at me for comparing to WOW but it is the most successful MMORPG. It also has VERY frequent updates.

In fact, it is on update 11 or 12 (With the next one due out in the next few weeks) and that game was released about 6 months after COH.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
But the hero "protect" missions aren't brand new....they're a copy of the mayhem missions...shouldn't that have helped make them a bit easier?

[/ QUOTE ]

They're not an exact copy. But yes, it looks like this will be a six month delay rather than seven, as I7 was.

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Lots of lost staff,

[/ QUOTE ]

Cryptic haven't lost any staff, they've taken staff on. NCSoft have lost staff, which may or may not have had an impact on QA.

 

Posted

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there is little doubt that the slow releases are hurting this game more and more. right now there is two complaints about i8 that conflict with the devs plans for issues, one i8 is small and that i8 is taking to long. they want smaller updates more often but right now its just small updates with about the same timeframe.

its sad to see an SG fall apart cause active members take time off for new issues or while waiting for things like the CoP trial and base raids to be fixed.

cryptic is awesome, ncsoft not so much.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought that cryptic did the programming and ncsoft did the publishing.

The forums are up, the newly programmed issue 8 has bugs and can't yet be released.

How is that cryptic being awesome?

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But the hero "protect" missions aren't brand new....they're a copy of the mayhem missions...shouldn't that have helped make them a bit easier?

[/ QUOTE ]

They're not an exact copy. But yes, it looks like this will be a six month delay rather than seven, as I7 was.

[ QUOTE ]
Lots of lost staff,

[/ QUOTE ]

Cryptic haven't lost any staff, they've taken staff on. NCSoft have lost staff, which may or may not have had an impact on QA.

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Well, certain people have left to pursue other projects, like Zeb Cook (Lord Recluse), and now Captain Mako (Sean Fish).

I'm more concerned that while Cryptic has not lost much in the way of staff, I do wonder about whether or not the bulk of the staff at Cryptic may not be working on other projects like MUO or other games they are apparantly developing.

I sort of have the feeling that CoH is yesterday's news.

Heroes
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Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
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Villains
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Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
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Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I sort of have the feeling that CoH is yesterday's news.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, I really can't agree with that. If that were true, the Devs wouldn't be so constantly surprised with issues being delayed. They'd be a lot more resigned to it.

The impression I get is that they're as frustrated as we are, if not more so.

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
23[ QUOTE ]

Looking at the average for the fairly consistent numbers between I2 and I5, we were going at a little over three updates a year (117 days per update).
What does all this mean? I have no idea.

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I'll tell you what it means... that number, 117, has been following me around for more than 25 years. It's getting spooky.

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That's really strange, although fnord probably just a coincidence. Once you start noticing it you just can't stop.

If you drop in the Release - I1 and I5-I6/CoV numbers, though, the average drops down to 92, so run with that if it helps.

 

Posted

Would you expect them to publicly admit that delays and slow updates are to be expected? Or that they've internally shifted resources to focus on other projects?

I wouldn't. It wouldn't exactly be the smartest PR move on their part.

Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn

Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Well, certain people have left to pursue other projects, like Zeb Cook (Lord Recluse), and now Captain Mako (Sean Fish).

[/ QUOTE ]
Not to nitpick, but Sean Fish is Manticore.

 

Posted

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They're not an exact copy. But yes, it looks like this will be a six month delay rather than seven, as I7 was.


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Point taken....although not one I would hang my hat on if I were the devs

[ QUOTE ]
Cryptic haven't lost any staff, they've taken staff on. NCSoft have lost staff, which may or may not have had an impact on QA.

[/ QUOTE ]

As pointed out, Cryptic has lost staff (Zeb and Shane). The "lost staff" quote was directed more at NCSoft, as support for the feeling that BOTH companies have diminished interest in advancing this game.

 

Posted

My personal preference would actually be to see only one update a year. Hopefully, it would reduce the paralyzing lag and bug issues that seem to plague each new issue.

Doesn't mean I'm not still plenty anxious for the new issue...

TheScooter
Read my comic blog Hero Sandwich!

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They're not an exact copy. But yes, it looks like this will be a six month delay rather than seven, as I7 was.


[/ QUOTE ]

Point taken....although not one I would hang my hat on if I were the devs

[ QUOTE ]
Cryptic haven't lost any staff, they've taken staff on. NCSoft have lost staff, which may or may not have had an impact on QA.

[/ QUOTE ]

As pointed out, Cryptic has lost staff (Zeb and Shane). The "lost staff" quote was directed more at NCSoft, as support for the feeling that BOTH companies have diminished interest in advancing this game.



[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps they've merely neglected to grow their staff at the same rate as the game has grown?

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, certain people have left to pursue other projects, like Zeb Cook (Lord Recluse), and now Captain Mako (Sean Fish).

[/ QUOTE ]
Not to nitpick, but Sean Fish is Manticore.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoops. You're right. Mako is Shane Helmsley I think.

Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn

Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
23[ QUOTE ]

Looking at the average for the fairly consistent numbers between I2 and I5, we were going at a little over three updates a year (117 days per update).
What does all this mean? I have no idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll tell you what it means... that number, 117, has been following me around for more than 25 years. It's getting spooky.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's really strange, although fnord probably just a coincidence. Once you start noticing it you just can't stop.

If you drop in the Release - I1 and I5-I6/CoV numbers, though, the average drops down to 92, so run with that if it helps.

[/ QUOTE ]

Too late, it's out there.

I thought it might be a coincidence, too, but then I decided to write down every number I saw. That lasted a little less than a year and a half until I filled up a regular notebook. The most common number? 117.

Even when we went to Hawaii and I took a picture of all these mailboxes on Maui. Something like 50 of them on this Pi-shaped frame. Lots of numbers, right? Even if 117 was in there, it'd just be one of many. I didn't notice until we got home that not only was 117 there, but it was right in the center and the largest of all the numbers. (I was looking at the cows in the background, not the numbers on the mailboxes.)

Imagine how unsurprised I was when we moved to NH only to discover upon crossing the border into the state that nearly all the license plates in the Nashua area started with the number 117. Or that our first hotel room here was number 11 in building 7. And et cetera.

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Posted

Reasons why delays like this are annoying for me:

---note: you will not see mention of distance between issues, subscription fees, plans to play during the holiday, or blase' attitudes towards gamebreaking bugs----

1) They gave up on trying to add an Issue "event" to I8 because of the delay it might cause, and because it would be close to Halloween....so, of course, we get delays anyway, and are three weeks away from the end of the Halloween event.

2) They transferred one "massive" system (inventions) to the next issue at a relatively early stage.....and still couldn't get what's left done in near their original expected time.

3) They tried to rush flight poses for the issue, pulled them back to have the time to "do them right", and ended up having another MONTH to try to get them in...of course, we won't see them in I8 regardless.

4) Just TWO WEEKS AGO, Lighthouse said: [ QUOTE ]
Barring any major issues that come up from play testing, we plan to bring Issue 8 to the live servers with enough lead time so that we will be in a good position to make any adjustments to it prior to the US Thanksgiving holiday (Nov. 23rd).

[/ QUOTE ]...so, either a major issue has come up that they aren't telling us about, or the dev team can't even assess the issues status within a TWO WEEK time frame.

5) Review sites have played I8, and offered their takes on it(mostly good, and definitely playable), but the issue is not live worthy yet.

Enjoy