Massive Hurricane nerf
By
aqshy2004,
Posted on: 2006-04-11 24:48 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Hurricane was the new Instand Healing. A power that made you untouchable
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Thats hilarious. As someone who has used ih when it was a toggle and hurricane before yesterday...its not even close. Blasters can three-hit me. Em stalkers stun me, then AS me. Scrappers or tanks with fa hit through it plenty. Scrappers with ih also have mez protection, something with most stormies dont have (iw is around 60% of the time for those with it, so its not close to perma either), so a simple hold drops hurricane easy. Ih scrappers are infintely harder to kill.
Save the ridiculous claims.
Hmmm, is it at all possible to just make the repel effect correspondingly stronger so that the average push speed is the same while the slower ticks still allow enough time for players in PvP to escape pinning?
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I'm so happy about this nerf. Now melee has a chance to hit stormers. Hurricane was the new Instand Healing. A power that made you untouchable. Hopefully this nerfs works well, otherwise I hope they chop it some more. If anything it should have been made into a click like Instant Healing.
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Absolutely untrue. Anyone with a ranged attack or a ranged hold automatically has a way past Hurricane, and thanks to the epic power pools there is not a single character past level 40 that does not have to option of picking up one, or more likely both, of those things.
Secondly there were plenty of ways to get past Hurricane with melee attacks and all it takes is one stun or toggle drop to defeat all of a Storm Defenders defenses.
This sucks. Yet another case of PvP over the PvE game. Hurricane was a great tool for clumping mobs together, putting them where you wanted them. I just tried it out and it is USELESS for that purpose. Yes, it still debuffs, buff if thats all I [censored] wanted it for I would be a rad or a dark. THANKS Devs for finally realizing after TWO YEARS that it is over powered and needs to be changed.
A good storm could overcome the the scatter of their powerset....no more. Thanks for making team harder for us.
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When I7 changes go live, the loss in ToHit effectiveness will be comparatively small.
And, frankly, in PvE, which is all a really care about, less repel means that I won't have to work as hard to keep mobs in the debuff zone. Repel was great in some ways; in others, it was a huge pain in the [censored]. And, if it's really being cut to 25% endurance cost (I'll have to check that to make sure!) then I'll trade all the Repel in the world to keep my blue bar happy.
So, no, I don't consider the Hurricane changes to be a huge nerf. In fact, I would say I'll probably get more utility out of it in its new state; it's less powerful in the situations for which it was previously used, maybe, but it's also less situational.
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repel was part of the power. Personalyl this really depressses me. Repel worked great weith the power. now it has a tick longer than the kinetic power repel? ugh, thats just...ugh.
Jay Doherty: Yes, there was this one night that I was ready to go home but had to drop the browns off at the super bowl before I left for home. While on the throne it hit me. I stayed for a few more hours and that why we have the pain pads in the game.
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My main is a Storm. I love Storm. It makes me happy in my happy places. I'm also not only not going to complain about this nerf, but I'm going to take it and run gleefully.
Why? Simple.
1) With the I7 changes, the drop in the to-hit debuff really isn't going to be significant.
2) I don't *want* the enemy repelled out of the area of my debuff effects.
3) Any time I'm in a situation where I really want to push something away from me, the knockback does just fine - if not from Hurricane, then from the bajillion other effects I have that cause it.
4) This reduction in power will help weed out the weak ones and force the people who relied on it as a crutch to use the rest of their tools in Storm's powerful and wonderful toolkit instead of becoming dependent on a single power.
5) Now I can stop listening to everybody and their mother who PvPs whine like a small child about how much they hate Hurricane and how much they're looking forward to seeing it nerfed because they're too poor of players to figure out ways to beat it. (And there are ways. Many, many ways.)
6) The power is still viable, still effective, and still worthy of being called Storm Summoning's signature power. This isn't the nerfing Regen got. This isn't the massive drop in power tankers have taken from the many, many nerfs they've been on the recieving end of. This isn't even the slightly-worse-than-a-papercut dropoff a lot of blasters took this same patch with the loss of Whirlwind negating animation times. I *LIKE* this nerf because we could have gotten a heck of a lot worse, and I'm very thankful that, while I don't love the change and think there are better ways it could have been handled, things could have been much, much worse.
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your an idiot. Liking a nerf because it *could* of been worse is by far teh most retarded thing ive ever heard of. Was this nerf needed in pve? no, then why is it applied there? I did not use hurricanne as a crutch, but now the specific times i did use it are now effectively useless. It sounds liek you want to be able to keep it on permanently and suffer no consequenses, like you want to use it more of a crutch than anything else.
Jay Doherty: Yes, there was this one night that I was ready to go home but had to drop the browns off at the super bowl before I left for home. While on the throne it hit me. I stayed for a few more hours and that why we have the pain pads in the game.
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Patches are not defined by the new content they bring but the capabilities that they take away
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QFT
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When I7 changes go live, the loss in ToHit effectiveness will be comparatively small.
And, frankly, in PvE, which is all a really care about, less repel means that I won't have to work as hard to keep mobs in the debuff zone. Repel was great in some ways; in others, it was a huge pain in the [censored]. And, if it's really being cut to 25% endurance cost (I'll have to check that to make sure!) then I'll trade all the Repel in the world to keep my blue bar happy.
So, no, I don't consider the Hurricane changes to be a huge nerf. In fact, I would say I'll probably get more utility out of it in its new state; it's less powerful in the situations for which it was previously used, maybe, but it's also less situational.
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repel was part of the power. Personalyl this really depressses me. Repel worked great weith the power. now it has a tick longer than the kinetic power repel? ugh, thats just...ugh.
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But the Kinetic power is a knockback, costs more in Endurance, doesn't do - Range, and doesn't Debuff the Target they touch.
Hurricane IS a Repel (1 of only 3 Powers that have this effect), does - Range, does Debuff, cost's less in Endurance, and does Knockback...
Comparing the Kinetic Repel (which is actually Kncokback not Repel ) and Hurricane your going to come out on the loosing end. Hurricane is so much better it's not even funny. It's still one of the best Toggle powers in the game. It's just not Godly in power but Uber instead.
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PvE repel is exactly the same strength as before. Yes, it ticks more slowly, which is a double edged sword -- it costs you less endurance to maintain, but it's not quite as good defensively.
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Why was hurricane touched at all for PVE? Were the patch notes a lie or mistake?
STOP NERFING PVE FOR PVP!!
28 L50's on Freedom
L50 Time Titan WP/Stn, L50 Lord Time Titan Grv/Rad, L50 Super Hero USA DM/Rgn
L50 Decoy Master Ill/Rad, L50 Shield Slinger SD/Ice, L50 Super Heavyweight Stn/Nrg
L50 King's Jester Fire/Kin, L50 Winterchill Ice/SS, L50 Alberta Clipper Ice/Ice
L50 I Mastermind Bots/Dark, L50 MVP Invul/Nrg, L50 Steely Resolve Psi/MM
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When I7 changes go live, the loss in ToHit effectiveness will be comparatively small.
And, frankly, in PvE, which is all a really care about, less repel means that I won't have to work as hard to keep mobs in the debuff zone. Repel was great in some ways; in others, it was a huge pain in the [censored]. And, if it's really being cut to 25% endurance cost (I'll have to check that to make sure!) then I'll trade all the Repel in the world to keep my blue bar happy.
So, no, I don't consider the Hurricane changes to be a huge nerf. In fact, I would say I'll probably get more utility out of it in its new state; it's less powerful in the situations for which it was previously used, maybe, but it's also less situational.
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LOL, Did a DEV post this ???
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Comparing the Kinetic Repel (which is actually Kncokback not Repel ) and Hurricane your going to come out on the loosing end. Hurricane is so much better it's not even funny. It's still one of the best Toggle powers in the game. It's just not Godly in power but Uber instead.
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Why are you comparing Kinetic's Repel to Storm's Hurricane? That's like comparing Kinetic's Fulcrum Shift to Storm's Freezing Rain. They both increase damage right?
I'm sorry, but Kinetics is a completely different powerset with a completely different playstyle, and trying to compare the individual powers is meaningless. The whole sets need to be compared. As far as I know, Repel is skipped by a lot of Kinetics, is taken for 'fun' by many others, and only a relatively few actually use it as a serious power. Hurricane on the other hand is one of the signature powers of Storm which almost every Storm Defender will take and adapt their playstyle to use. To illustrate my point, imagine the two sets with the powers removed. Would Kinetics be just as effective as today? Yes. Would Storm? Hell no.
Since the patch notes ONLY mention PvP, they are misleading. The Devs have said they would not change PvE due solely to PvP issues, yet this seems to be exactly what they did with Hurricane. If there is a PvE issue with the pre-patch Hurricane, then please _Castle_, Statesman, Positron, someone post what that issue is. If in fact there is no issue with Hurricane and PvE, then the current design should be considered a bug IMO.
I'm reserving judgement on the change until I get a chance to test it with my 50 Storm/Elec. Will I be as effective as before? Possibly. Will I have to change the playstyle I've developed over a year of play and 50 levels? Yes. Will I like it as much as before? I'll have to wait and see but I didn't get to 50 with Storm for the hell of it, I really liked it as it was...
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I liked trying to push mobs in corners, dammit. It wasn't as if they couldn't run by me often enough anyways to make it challenging.
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See, this is what puzzles me.
In PvE, mobs cornered with Hurricane will eel out from under it with surprising ease. You actually have to work to keep anything cornered with the power. Disoriented mobs are by far the worst right now, and are practically guaranteed to escape from a hurricane pin. It's been that way since the game was released.
When PvP came along, Hurricane really surprised me (not that I PvP much). I could get people pinned with it and they'd stay that way. I actually did a bit of testing with a friend of mine who also has a stormy on the go, because I couldn't believe that the repel's effects could be so different dependent on the target. However, in practice it turned out that he could easily pin me and there wasn't a whole lot I could do to escape. It didn't seem that the power was working the same way in PvP as I was used to it working in PvE.
So what's different? If the power's the working the same way in both contexts, it has to be the mobs.
Over on test right now, it's a lot harder to keep mobs pinned with Hurricane than it is on live, and it's not all that easy on live. Change the mobs so that they respond to repel more like players and this change could be fine. Otherwise it's just making a difficult set even more tricky to play in PvE.
Cheers,
~R~
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The repel in Huricane is fun yes, but more importantly to me is the debuffing. And though the power hasnt had a nerf to the amount of to-hit duffing it does by numbers, this change worries me cause if enemies arent pinned within hurricane and come free of it easier, then it has.
Huricanes effects were not exactly but closely in radius to its cloud. If mobs in PVE or PVP can escape easier then the debuffing it did is more easily removed. Lessening what to me was the more important aspect of the power, that of keeping someone bebuffed more then keeping them stationary.
A change like this requires a change in the way the power debuffs, one or two things. Either the radius of the cloud should be expanded to debuff well outside teh cloud/repel area so mobs in a wider area are debuffed even if not being repeled, or the power should leave some taint on those it does for a time trap. Meanign if you cover a mob in the cloud, then say for 15 or 20 seconds after they escape the debuff should still be effecting them.
If I understand it correctly your Endurance usage for this power is based of the tick of the Repel which means that the Endurance usage for Hurricane just went down alot. Some of the problems I hear about Storm is it's Endurance usage. If I'm right then Hurricane recieved a major Endurance reduction for a minor reduction in the Repel effect. I could be mistaken in this area though and please correct me if I'm wrong.
Either way the power is far from useless and is uber in it's own right. I can ask any Storm Defender or Controller right now if there going to respec Hurricane out of there build due to this nerf and they wil say No. It would be like me saying that Unyielding is pointless to take because they added a -5% to Defense and lowered the Mag protection. It's making Mountains out of Mole Hills.
Now on to the something that was remarked upon over a year ago before PvP even came into the picture. There's been numerous posts by Dev's stating that some issues they just can't seperate one from the other. To try and hold onto one statement after repeated statements by Devs that some things can't be worked around is being petty. I'm absolutly horid to the Dev's and I know it. I hold them to a high standard. I do want them to fix the Bugs that are in this game before they nerf a power but I also understand that some things are done to try and bring balance. What I won't do though is keep holding onto one statement by one individual. The Game changes and even I understand that. They could have changed Hurricane and how it works like they did to Instant Healing. Take it with a grain of salt that they adjusted the tick time of Repel from .25 to 1 second.
Also to clarify I wasn't the one who started comparing Hurricane to the Kinetic Repel first. I was just trying to enlighten an individual.
One other thing.... Could you please fix Knockout Blow. Please. I'm begging you here. I just want to be able to hit somebody as there running by. Pretty please with sugar on top...
I fought my first post nerf hurricanes today. On my stalker.
I could always eventually kill them before.
Now they are just like any other squishy to me.
Easier actually, because they still think they are safe in that hurricane.
I used to SS joust them. It would usually take me 5 or 6 tries to get a hit.
Now, I don't miss. It's not the to-hit debuff either, I have BU and ACC's, they usu overcame the debuffs.
Pre nerf, It was difficult to get within melee range due to the repel. Now I barely notice the repel.
For the first time ever, I stood next to the stormie many times and would get combos on him! wow.
I'm sorry they did this to you. Once, ya'll were one of my favorite tough targets. Now, you're just another squishie.
I assume repel and Force bubble and the other powers that mimic hurricane will be getting this same sort of change.
I don't like it. Ya'll were much more fun as tough targets.
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I'm so happy about this nerf. Now melee has a chance to hit stormers. Hurricane was the new Instand Healing. A power that made you untouchable. Hopefully this nerfs works well, otherwise I hope they chop it some more. If anything it should have been made into a click like Instant Healing.
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Although I too am glad they made this change, Im not happy for the reasons your implying. I've hit a stormie with Hurricane on using KO Blow, Hurl with my brute or even Focus with my Stalker. But when I was playing my other toons; scrapper, tanker...the Stormie was normally untouchable...just another toon you ignore kinda like a stone granited tank. Only difference was that this toon could effect you a lot more than a crawling stone tank ever could.
And again...this is based on PvP, im sure there are those that really used hurricane mainly/solely for PvE purposes...but obviously a fair lot used it for its PvP godmode or I doubt this adjustment/nerf would have even been thought about. At least the true dedicated Stormies wont have to worry about being FoTM anymore.
After using the new hurricane in Siren's for awhile I made the following observations:
-It still seems as though most melee attacks miss, perhaps one every 4 swings hit me on average. A great deal more than before, but not too serious. A to-hit buff or multiple ACC SOs should give them the ability to land most hits.
Those with such to-hit or multiple acc SOs hit consistently enough that they don't have to joust anymore. I noticed that some players would miss constantly, while other other players hardly missed at all. The ones with high accuracy builds just walked right into the hurricane and pounded me down. The others would spend a lot of time missing.
-Moving around constantly as if I was a non-storm player while still keeping hurricane up still kept me from being defeated by melee attacks. The repel isn't as near-invincible like it was before, but it still makes a constantly superjumping hurricaner a very slippery target.
-Landing in a hotspot with hurricane on costs a LOT of health now. Most mob attacks still missed, but I'm taking much more damage than before when I tried to help in hotspot battles using hurricane. This hurricane change must /really/ suck for those still engaged in PvE, luckily my ill/storm hit 50 a long time ago, before the kheldians were added.
Things I did to try to adapt:
-Don't stand around the squishies. This was advisable before the change in case of jousters dropping directly down on you, but is absolutely necessary now. Don't protect squishies from melee by letting them sit in the hurricane with you, the repel just isn't enough. You'll just have to jump around in the immediate vicinity of the squishies to protect them. The hurricane island melee-free zone doesn't exist anymore.
-Something that helped a little to create an AS-free zone for the squishies was to TPfoe a lieutenant mob into your team, hold it, then Snow Storm it, and have your teammates stay inside the snowstorm. This also helps a bit when TPFoeing fliers, this way you don't need to undergo that incredibly long Snow Storm animation to apply the -fly(Also, snow storm's activation range is much much shorter than my TPfoe's range). Now you've got Snowstorm to foul up AS, it'll give -spd and more importantly, -recharge to melee ATs that try to get in there to attack the squishies, and you'll still be buzzing around with hurricane to apply the acc debuff and knockback.
You'll need to work with teammates who won't kill the lieutenant, and though lts take a little while to kill, you'll have to replace it occassionally. If they choose to attack your lt to kill it, then at least that lt. is taking a hit that a teammate would've taken instead.
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I'm just leaving my /subjective/ observation on my trips in Siren's thus far. I'll withhold my opinion of the changes to hurricane for awhile. Perhaps the player-aggro effect of hurricane will be reduced when opponents notice that it's not as devastating to them as it used to be and isn't as high a priority to remove from the battlefield as it used to be. Maybe somebody will find some new adaptations to the changes. Maybe just more time is needed to get an accurate observation of how much this truly affects us in actual application. Just a buncha maybes I still need to see first.
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I tested this as much as I could in PVP with my tanker (Ice/Stone), and in my experience, if you do not have decent range, this stuff just doesn't work as well as you say.
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That's because hurricane was MEANT to counter you, meleer. Try using hurricane against a ranged opponent and see how you fair. I have a lvl 30 stormy that I've PvPd with. She could hold off brutes and stalkers no problem. But dominators and corruptors OWNED her. Ranged mezzes were especially her weakness.
I'm absolutely SICK of meleers getting their way in PvP time and time again. They are so arrogant that they think it's their right to walk right up to any squishie and destroy them without effort.
Hurricane was one of the only powers that a squishie could rely on for protection in PvP, and a major defense for storm defenders/controllers in PvE, and now this double nerf has gutted it. Thank you melee crybabies!!! You got what you wanted. Have fun in the PvP zones by yourselves.
Please buff Ice Control.
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Is it possible to just have the tick rate be different for PVP and PVE? Beause that could solve the problem.
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It wouldn't be possible, no. Power effects for PVP and PVE are not decided on a "what zone you're in" basis; they're decided on a "what kind of enemy is attacking you" basis. And Repel ticks the same no matter if you're being attacked by players, NPCs, or even not attacked at all.
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Unfortunately I'm pretty sure Robotech is right, there is no way to make hurricane work differently because when you turn it on it simply turns on, its not targeting a particular enemy. I don't know if they have the ability to make it check on the enemies side when they get hit by hurricane to see what effect it might have, based on past Dev posts I'm guessing not.
I can't comment on the actual changes yet, as I haven't had time to log on the past couple days. I'll have to give it a shot. Based on what I've read here I'm disappointed, but I think I'll be able to work with it. I first made Zapping in CoH beta and went through a long time of being considered a gimp because I was storm. I'll admit maybe its a bit of my own ego, but I like being one of the few stormers. Up until PvP came about and people realized stormers (mostly storm controllers) were the safest squishies in PvP the storm community was a small but strong network. We've lost some of that recently, who knows maybe this nerf will bring the community back together.
Oh and ignore KidQwik. He's been trolling for a storm nerf because in his own mind he's decided stormers are the reason regen was nerfed. About the only pleasure I've seen him take on these boards are calling for others to be nerfed as well. I find it quite sad, but at least he can get a few moments of happiness before moving on to sulking about his regens again and calling for someone else to be nerfed.
Anyways, hopefully I'll get to test this out a bit in the next day or two and see what I think.
Zapping, 50 storm/elec
Rain King, 50 ice/storm
Ard, 50 NB/SR
The rest of my lineup
Justice, Freedom and Virtue Servers
www.repeat-offenders.net
Avatar by Altoholic_Monkey!
Skipped a few pages of this thread.
All I know is that yesterday for the first time ever, 2 different stalkers got hits in on my storm troller in Sirens. Neither could kill me, but I don't like the fact that they could just jump into my hurricane and hit me before being repelled. The KB actually HELPED them get away from my pets.
I don't PvP much at all. But I do go to the zones for the badges. Imagine my surprise when I was fighting Blue Ink Men and a brute landed right next to me in my hurricane and stunned me with KB blow.
I think this change is BS. To everyone who thinks this is a good change because the end cost was lowered, I have a bridge in New York for sale. They have these little things called enhancements that you can use to reduce the endurance costs of all your powers, learn to use them.
If you take away some of my defense, then give me some mez protection or more HP. Otherwise all this did was make a squishy even more squishy.
Is there no way to add some type of repel suppression for players instead of gutting hurricane in PvE? Like give everyone an inherent repel resistance that increases the longer the player is being repelled in PvP? That way they can eventually get out of it if they are repelled for extended periods of time?
As much as I get irritated by hurricane in PvP, I would much rather leave it like it was than gut the power completely and destroy the whole feel of the Storm Summoning powerset.
My opinion is that you need to reverse this until you can find a good solution to the problem that doesn't screw over the power and powerset in PvE.
This was a very poor solution. 
I thought the developers stated PVP would not cause nerfing in PVE?
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the nerf was inappropriate.
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QFT. Good to see you still defending the set, Stormbringer.
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the nerf was inappropriate.
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QFT. Good to see you still defending the set, Stormbringer.
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dood, have you tried herdicaning recently?
it's a pain in the [censored] after ragdoll physics!
this just makes it worse.
it's as if the goal of the set is no longer controlled chaos...
it's just plain chaos.
BAH!
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I'm so happy about this nerf. Now melee has a chance to hit stormers. Hurricane was the new Instand Healing. A power that made you untouchable. Hopefully this nerfs works well, otherwise I hope they chop it some more. If anything it should have been made into a click like Instant Healing.
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it's this kind of ill-informed nerfherding that's gonna gut this game.
do some research before you post, kids.
otherwise someone somewhere might listen to your dumb ideas and do something about them.
and that just makes the world dumber for all of us.
I'm so happy about this nerf. Now melee has a chance to hit stormers. Hurricane was the new Instand Healing. A power that made you untouchable. Hopefully this nerfs works well, otherwise I hope they chop it some more. If anything it should have been made into a click like Instant Healing.