Massive Hurricane nerf
By
aqshy2004,
Posted on: 2006-04-11 24:48 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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3 simple things that can disable a stormie
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I think there are more ways then just 3, but that didnt matter to the devs
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It lasts WAY TOO LONG after you've got away from the radius
[/ QUOTE ] 10 seconds is way too long? I can think of numerous debuffs that last longer.
I havent tested hurricane today, but I did use ri and I could tell a pretty substantial difference in the amount of damage I was taking. I know a lot of people are saying it will balance out in PvE...but I could care less. PvE can be figured out. The ai is predictable.
PvP is where my beef is. This is going to get me pwned a lot more often.
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10 seconds is most definitely too long. We're talking about a non-travel suppression, -range, -Acc, Repel and knockdown power thats autohit and can affect multiple foes. 10 seconds is a very long time for a power with all those benefits. A blaster can kill most CoV ATs in 5 seconds tops.
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I assume you've picked up the END use by <insert unmentionable process here> and those numbers are accurate. That is a big bonus that I didn't notice while playing and so left out of the assessment.
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Castle confirmed this in a PM to me when it was still on test. It was an unintentional side effect that he didn't think about when he changed the tick rate, but he doesn't see any need to change it to a higher end cost now. "Consider it a gift" he said.
My main point here is that Hurricane is still the most powerful repel power in the game, because of all the additional effects it gets. A slight reduction in the knockback frequency of the power, while simultaneously getting the equivalent of a free 300% in Endurance Reduction enhancements, is hardly what I'd consider a "Massive Hurricane nerf." A massive nerf would be to make it a Repulsion Field clone.
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a) stand in awe of your pathetic whipped-dog mentality, that you mewl about how far up the [censored] we COULD have taken it, or
b) stand in awe of your diabolically devious wielding of sarcasm.
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Or c) I like the fact that the least useful (to me, at least) aspect of the power has been toned down - actually improving it for my usage of it - in a way that will stop the massive nerf-herding of the power while still leaving me with an extremely useful tool. For some of us, we use it for the debuff (in which case it's still quite effective) instead of the repel. A different playstyle doesn't mean I'm a simpering lapdog, and your statement of that really just makes you out to be a fool.
Sheesh, if you want to start a fight, at least insult my mother or something. Try harder.
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My main point here is that Hurricane is still the most powerful repel power in the game, because of all the additional effects it gets.
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I think classing the new Hurricane as a "repel power" is inappropriate. It is now a DeBuff with some "additional effects".
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A slight reduction in the knockback frequency of the power, while simultaneously getting the equivalent of a free 300% in Endurance Reduction enhancements, is hardly what I'd consider a "Massive Hurricane nerf."
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They reduced the KB frequency too? Or are you refering to reducing the Repel frequency to 1/4th and the radius to about 10' as "[a] slight reduction"?
As for the END, it's a big bonus to me as it frees up a slot to use elsewhere in my slot poor build. I didn't even notice the END reduction during my testing however. This change should save me about 1 END every 4 seconds. Call it enough to run Fire Cages one more time per fight. No wonder I didn't notice. Probably made up for that by getting stunned and KBed more often so that I ran fewer powers.
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A massive nerf would be to make it a Repulsion Field clone.
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We differ there, I consider removing 50% or more of a power's effectiveness to be a massive nerf.
Kosmos
Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)
Sounds fairer though, afterall the ability also has a knockback effect so in PvP and PvE its offering some decent crowd control. Too bad it can't be used for herding enemies into a corner now though but on the plus side its actually improved the synergy with Ice Control on my ice/stormie since it can be used and won't instantly force enemies outside of the other AoE powers effective them.
So it's a nerf, but not a big nerf because it was buffed endwise?
I don't think it's a big nerf as nerfs go. But some of us used it for its strong repel effect as well as its debuff effect. Very good for those people who didn't like the repel effect, but it destroys a certain way I can play my toon. The way of play of people who have learnt to work with the repel and/or use it. People who continue to use to use the power (still a very good power) will just use it in another way.
All this from a PvE angle. Oh, it was very useful PvE-wise. I mainly PvE after all, and I don't PvP on my stormie. Why would I lie to maintain any illusionary PvP advantage?
I feel a lot of frustration over this patch, I'm just not expressing it.
"Honesty is for the most part less profitable than dishonesty." -- Plato
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Darwin was right. Those who do not adapt will die...
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Actually, I think his contribution was more along the lines of: "Things change"
I look at it not as 'massive nerf' but rather as 'maybe a change to my slotting is in order'. It's still an excellent defensive power, and cheap toggles with this (really rather awesome) effect...can't hate those. Shuffling the slots around isn't a big problem.
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No matter how many times I heard "We'll never balance PVE around PVP" I always knew this would happen.
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If anybody ever said "We'll never balance PvE around PvP," it wasn't a person with any authority. Statesman has said several times that they prefer to not balance that way and that they try to avoid it, but he made no guarantees.
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Yes but again this shows why NON pvpers despise pvp so damn much.
IT sucks the life out of the pve game even if you never touch pvp.
Pvp stinks, it never helps and usually hurts and adds to the game for very very few people.
Go to any pvp zone and listen to crickets chirp.
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As a Champions player that has played COH from the beginning. I can only say WRONG. PvP RULES! It shows exactly who can REALLY be a super crime fighter. Anyone can perform cookie cutter repetitive combat strategies against computer AI baddies. I waited for a YEAR for PvP because the best AI in the game to fight against is another player. Every one of my toons are built for PvP and guess what? They all kick butt in PvE missions as well. I'm sure that with the hurricane power changes, everyone will come up with new cookie cutter repetitive strategies for amassing XP in the name of 'getting to 50 as fast as humanly possible'. Here's an idea for helping with your stormie nerf complaints: get a tanker on your team.
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The endurance cost per tick remains the same (0.1625 end/tick), meaning the new endurance/second cost is 1/4 of the old value.
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Has this been confirmed?
The game ends at 50.
SmilegasmDo not ever give Mind Control a pet.
We need more control sets without pets.My characters are not "toons".
They are all project characters, though.Global chat @Lxndr My servers: Defiant, Liberty, Pinnacle, Virtue
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Darwin was right. Those who do not adapt will die...
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Actually, I think his contribution was more along the lines of: "Things change"
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Yes, he did also say the equivalent of 'things change' (evolutoin). But survival of the fitest is more along the idea that adaption is required to continue existence (of the species).
And Darwin probably saw a few hurricanes in his travels (how about that pathetic attempt to get back on topic? lol)...
You know, our problem really isn't with PvP per se, nor is it with those who enjoy PvP. The problem comes when PvP starts to dictate what goes on in PvE. I and others were encouraged at the beginning, when it really looked like PvP and PvE were really going to be separate entities. Looks like that philosophy has gone the way of the dodo.
It's not really the "nerf", you know. The reduction is minor to the point where most could just shrug it off. It's the principle of the thing. The game's not doomed by any means.
Whatever. We said it was gonna happen, and we were right. I do wonder if this is where it will stop.
Was Hurricane for NPC mobs (Sorcerors/Tsoo bosses/Witches) also correctly reduced/"fixed" as it was 'broken'?
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The endurance cost per tick remains the same (0.1625 end/tick), meaning the new endurance/second cost is 1/4 of the old value.
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Has this been confirmed?
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Not in Patch Notes I don't believe. If so another Patch oversight...
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You know, our problem really isn't with PvP per se, nor is it with those who enjoy PvP. The problem comes when PvP starts to dictate what goes on in PvE. I and others were encouraged at the beginning, when it really looked like PvP and PvE were really going to be separate entities. Looks like that philosophy has gone the way of the dodo.
It's not really the "nerf", you know. The reduction is minor to the point where most could just shrug it off. It's the principle of the thing. The game's not doomed by any means.
Whatever. We said it was gonna happen, and we were right. I do wonder if this is where it will stop.
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Wasn't there actually a post from Statesman that said code existed to easily make powers work differently in each side? PVE/PVP zones?
I love Hurricane.
It was too strong in PvP.
It was Very strong in PvE.
I never saw anyone push mobs around with, it other than myself, in almost 2 years of playing.
I'll add a knockback slot in there to conpensate.
I ain't a thang. I'll make it work the way I want, or make it work as it is to my advantage, no matter what.
I guess Gale will need a second Acc slot, since it looks like I'll actually need it more often.
For what it's worth, I *love* Gale with my mind/storm controller. I'm six slotting that puppy. 2 acc (maybe 3, maybe), 2 recharge, 2 end. That plus TK, plus Hurricane, equals Mobs go where I tell them to. I love the trifecta...
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Was Hurricane for NPC mobs (Sorcerors/Tsoo bosses/Witches) also correctly reduced/"fixed" as it was 'broken'?
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If these guys aren't getting the full second ticks, I'll be... completely unsurprised. Like Paragon Protectors and their older less rank version of Moment of Glory, right */Regenners?. Frankly, as a PvEer with miniscule interest in PvP, I'm irritated that the devs got their PvP nerfbat in my PvE fun. These two tastes don't taste great together. Endurance be damned, it was the lowest draining toggle a Storm character had aside from what, Combat Jumping? Thanks for the convenient side-effect! Ooh, a slot to move to Gale!
I liked trying to push mobs in corners, dammit. It wasn't as if they couldn't run by me often enough anyways to make it challenging. Why not a half second tick? Aren't most 'tick' powers set to that nowadays? Bah.
A guide to the deranged, degraded inhabitants of the forums.
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Wasn't there actually a post from Statesman that said code existed to easily make powers work differently in each side? PVE/PVP zones?
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I dont know about the "easily" part, but they do have the tech to make things different in PvE and PvP...
1. Controller x3 damage in PvP, x2 in PvE
2. Smoke does an accuracy check in PvP, does not in PvE
3. Superspeed gives no stealth in PvP, gives stealth in PvE
...off the top of my head.
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*Sigh*
Once again the PvPers who refused to think through problems on the battlefield have gone and ruined things for everyone, including those who don't PvP at all or very often. The fact is, good PvPers know how to disable huricane fairly easily. All you have to remember are a few things:
1) Storm Defenders lack mez protection in their powerset. Unless they have another power that grants some or are teamed with people who can give them mez resistance, it can be very easy to hold, stun, sleep, whatever a storm defender.
2) Use travel powers to your advantage. If you have teleport, you can teleport right next to the defender and get off a mez attack before huricane takes effect. Or use superspeed's inertia to get in close.
3) Que your attack before engaging the storm defender. Remember, attacks will remained active ready to go off as soon as you get in range. So you can have a travel power ready, que the attack, get in close, and the mez attack or regular attack will go off on its own, even if you get repelled while it happens. The target only needs to be in range when the attack goes off.
So, there you have it, 3 simple things that can disable a stormie. Part of the challenge of PvP (and the fun if you ask me) is thinking through the challenges presented. It is a common theme that the best PvPers will do this, and that is why they are so strong. Not to say storm summoning's huricane did not need some nerf. The fact is forcing someone against a corner where they can do nothing (not even pop a break free) was a bit extreme and needed to be dealt with, but I think the developers are catering too much to people who just want a win button in PvP.
And why can't the effects of huricane be different in PvP and PvE. If you ask me, I haven't noticed storm being vastly overpowered in the PvE game. People must still think through their actions and I still risk death if I take on more than my powers can handle.
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QFT
hurricane was never overpowered.
there were and are plenty of counters for it.
the reason it got nerfed is because it's a debuff power and inexperienced players are more inclined to complain about a debuff power 'cuz it affects their toons negatively. notice how few people complain about clear mind or clarity--they're buffs.
it spooks me a bit to see this happening, but i think the devs will continue to nerf debuff powers in the interest of an ill-formed notion of balance until this phenomenon becomes clear to them.
hurricane was never unbalanced in pvp. at least not when compared to powers like sonic cage, detention field, clear mind, clarity...
the cries against it were unjustified.
the nerf was inappropriate.
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The endurance cost per tick remains the same (0.1625 end/tick), meaning the new endurance/second cost is 1/4 of the old value.
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Has this been confirmed?
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Confirmed by _Castle_ in a PM to me on April 3. The new end/sec cost was an unintentional side effect of decreasing the tick frequency, but he sees no need to change it now.
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Was Hurricane for NPC mobs (Sorcerors/Tsoo bosses/Witches) also correctly reduced/"fixed" as it was 'broken'?
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All NPC versions of Hurricane remain unchanged. They tick every 0.5 seconds for 0.35 endurance.
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Was Hurricane for NPC mobs (Sorcerors/Tsoo bosses/Witches) also correctly reduced/"fixed" as it was 'broken'?
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All NPC versions of Hurricane remain unchanged. They tick every 0.5 seconds for 0.35 endurance.
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Color me completely unsurprised.
...If that's true.
PvE repel is exactly the same strength as before. Yes, it ticks more slowly, which is a double edged sword -- it costs you less endurance to maintain, but it's not quite as good defensively.
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I'm sitting here scratching my head about what's causing this huge uproar over this change...It still has one of the highest, if not THE highest, to-hit debuffs in the game
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Because if the acc debuff was entirely removed, I would hardly notice. I don't slot the acc debuff, I don't notice the acc debuff, the thing I pay attention to is the fact that mobs are no longer swinging their massive melee attacks at me and the blasters next to me. With a much longer length of time between tics, I lose that.
A no attack "Group-Friendly" Defender is like a "Team Friendly" basketball player who won't dribble, run, or shoot, under any circumstances. "I'm a PASSER."