Issue 7: New Base Features!

15 mins is not enough time for a master mind
by the time we get to the zone and set up our pets and run to the "spot giving us a hard time" the buff would have worn off.

please consider making it a normal "click to use it" inspiration style buff...that way i can choose to give it to my assult bot instead of myself, since i really didnt take any attacks.

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15 mins is not enough time for a master mind
by the time we get to the zone and set up our pets and run to the "spot giving us a hard time" the buff would have worn off.

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No way. Every single zone in CoV has a base portal in it.

Great! More cool stuff that our SG won't be able to afford

I know it would take some program hacking of the engine, but here's how I'd like it to work...you get a super inspiration. When taken, gives you a reasonable time of buffage (3 minutes is a time that you've picked as reasonable for the top-level scrapper defenses, so that's good, though I'd like a round number like 5 minutes). After 120 minutes, it disappears. Can only have one of each type of super inspiration. Alternatively, a temp power that is both 1 shot and time limited.

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Trust me on this one, having craftable temp powers would be great IMHO, but they would be either exploitable or basically useless.

I'm an advocate of pushing the envelope, and you have to look at the synergies involved.

Work out what would be worth crafting as a holdable temp power, then consider it at the damage cap fighting a foe weakend by a chemical burn.

There has to be a constraint or limit to these, else they can become too good.

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You mean like inspirations are now?

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Arguabley- yes. on the inspirations.

Most folks consider the nuke blast warburg rocket for example to be pretty weak - thats because its enitrely unenhanced.

Once I7 comes through (for correct buffing of drop powers) eat the right number of rages, drop a chemical burn (and if teamed say a tar patch and/or EF freezing rain) for a huge -res.
THEN drop da bomb.

You will be able to take a sizeable chunk off of an AV with one shot.

Put me into the "15 minutes after activation not after crafting camp".

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While I think this is probably fine, my only concern is this: Going to the base,and coming back from the base to a mission, is INCREDIBLY inconvenient in CoH.

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I just don't agree with that at all. There are base portals in all of the city zones. Heading back to the base and then to the mission is incredibly easy.

I also don't agree with all this 'give us a temp power instead' business. Not all the benefits in the game should be given when you want, where you want, at the click of a mouse button. I would PREFER something like the Empowerment Station buffs as they are now - a very big buff with a time limit, as opposed to a smaller one on demand. If nothing else, I'd rather PvP wasn't further complicated by people firing their carefully hoarded temp powers and striking from the shadows.

I do wonder, though, whether this isn't why the CoH teleporters all to go hazard zones - to cut down on travel time to the mission in areas without base portals, while the buff runs down.

Anyway, Positron is saying he'll extend the time limit if it isn't enough, so there's always the chance we'll get it for longer.

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Or i know, increase flight speed to compensate for travel time. I dont mind the 15 minute timer if flight say went faster then my old 1972 V'Dub did.

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While I think this is probably fine, my only concern is this: Going to the base,and coming back from the base to a mission, is INCREDIBLY inconvenient in CoH.

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I just don't agree with that at all. There are base portals in all of the city zones. Heading back to the base and then to the mission is incredibly easy.

I also don't agree with all this 'give us a temp power instead' business. Not all the benefits in the game should be given when you want, where you want, at the click of a mouse button. I would PREFER something like the Empowerment Station buffs as they are now - a very big buff with a time limit, as opposed to a smaller one on demand. If nothing else, I'd rather PvP wasn't further complicated by people firing their carefully hoarded temp powers and striking from the shadows.

I do wonder, though, whether this isn't why the CoH teleporters all to go hazard zones - to cut down on travel time to the mission in areas without base portals, while the buff runs down.

Anyway, Positron is saying he'll extend the time limit if it isn't enough, so there's always the chance we'll get it for longer.

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Well the thing is... small SGs aren't likely to HAVE Teleporters, which is my point. So if you're in, say, Crey's Folley back in The Circus, or The Hive in Eden (where the Woodsman is, not Hamidon), you've got to traverse the entire hazard zone AND a significant portion of the City Zone to get to the base.

Which is why I think a Base Recall temp power would be nice (and that's really the ONLY temp power I support), because it cuts travel time in half since a small SG is unlikely to have a Teleporter to Crey's Folley, or Eden, or Dark Astoria. Making it Interuptable or something would be fine so that you can't use it as a get out of jail free card.

My concern is just that they won't fill the niche they're designed for because there's some onerous travel involved when you have to leave a mission in a Hazard zone. Unless they make a Base Entrance in the Hazard Zones accessible if you have the Beacon for that zone or something.

I'm fine with the 15 minutes timered buffs (I actually think that's a great idea, it's like Lab Equipment but better!), I'm just concerned about factoring out travel time so that it's not incredibly inconvenient to use. Because if it's incredibly inconvenient, it's not gonna see a lot of usage.

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I have a suggestion here. How about allowing the Raid teleporter to double as a mission teleporter. If you have a mission set, the Teleporter acts as a door to the mission. Thus you can just buff yourself, and use the Raid Teleporter to enter your mission directly (or whatever mission you have set if you're on a team..)

This would also make the Raid Teleporter (Which is pointlessly big) usefull for something other then the IOP Raids.

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This is a great idea. It makes a usually useless item incredibly useful. And it also makes bases the solution to one of CoH's biggest annoyances (needless travel time/zone hopping).

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/signed

Effectively the "raid" teleporter becomes a "mission" teleporter, and takes you to wherever the action is. Perfectly reasonable, and yes, makes that obscenely big bit of kit actually useful for something other than PvP.

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Except only BIG SGs can afford a raid teleporter... thereby shafting the small ones who are intended to recieve the largest proportional benefit from Empowerment Stations. Something to cut travel time down for Empowerment Station use should be available with a lowish investment.

They really need to review the cost and upkeep of non PVP base items...
Also, previous comments have been worried about the possible cost of these empowerment stations and the power usage. This is a quote from a Positron interview on CoHcompendium:

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with Empowerment Stations, which are a type of self-powered Crafting Table that gives your characters long duration buffs in exchange for Salvage. The Empowerment Stations are not prohibitively expensive, so even the smallest Supergroup should be able to afford them.

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As we can see the station will be self - powered. Whew. I am in a SMALL villain group and getting anything cool for our base just plain costs to much. Too bad I bought that plasma tv from Rent A Center.. Stupid upkeep cost on decorative items....

My concern with this design is that it will be very inconvient for pick-up groups. In a full group, all eight people would have to go to their bases, if their SGs even have one, craft their buff, regather, recoordinate, and try the encounter again. This won't be so bad in CoV where there are base portals in every zone. It will be unwieldy in the best of circumstances in CoH where there aren't base portals everywhere. Add to that pickup group members that don't have SGs, or don't have SGs with a base, and this will be a big problem for the non-SG social aspect of CoH. It would cause people to only want to group with those in their SG or others they know that have the resources to create the buffs.

When the empowerment stations where first mentioned, I'd thought they would be like the temp powers we can get in Pocket D. Nice, temp powers with heavy useage restrictions/charges/etc. Basically, I envisioned it as Q giving James Bond his one-shot, laser wristwatch at the beginning of the movie and Bond not using it until he was caught in the archvillian's nefarious shark pool where he uses it to cut through the bars of an underwater tunnel to swim out to sea and to safety. Or, James' famous jet pack he used to fly away from the henchmen chasing him. Or, any of the one-shot gadgets that Batman pulls out of his utility belt. Sure he had to craft them in the Batcave, but none of them with the exception maybe of the famous buttermilk had a time-limit on them.

I'm not opposed to the the time limit concept. It is a good idea in the proper context, i.e. particular high power/usefullnes abilities. However, I don't like that it seems to have been applied enmass to all of the empowerment station buffs. I was expecting more diversity and flexibility than that.

The current design appears to me to be assuming people are only going to be grouping with those in their SGs, when that really isn't the case in the game. Quite a few people group outside of their SG. This time limit design will prove to be very inconvient to nearly impossible to integrate into social pickup groups.

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Empowerment station buffs are currently set at 15 minute durations (far longer than any other non-toggle buff in the game). They are bestowed on you as soon as you craft them, and last 15 minutes from there. The idea is to have enough time to get you past that sticky part of a mission that was giving you trouble.
15 minutes is the time we are going to the Training Room with. If it turns out that that's not enough time for you to Empowerment Buff, get to the mission, and get you through the tough fight, then it will be increased.

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Of all the things coming in Issue 7, this was the one that I was most intrigued by. But... Wow. My interest in this particular upgrade just went through the floor, the basement, and posisbly as far down as the mole king's realm...

My misunderstanding, I suppose. I thought these were supposed to be actual temporary powers. You know, like the ones you get from mission arcs, Siren's Call, etc.

I envisioned powers like the Siren's Call grenades (6 uses), the D-Drops (~4 uses), Snowbeast (1 use), melee attacks with a 1 day (or maybe 2-3 hour) lifetime, and so on. Stuff that's useful, but not game breaking (certainly not as cool as the Drops or beast), and ultimately very expensive if you use them frequently.

Temporary buffs are much less worthwhile, especially if we're burning Salvage to get them. I did envision a Buffing Station being added at some point, but not like this.

Positron, maybe I just don't grok where you guys are coming from... How is this supposed to help small SGs? Maybe a better question is, what does the development team consider a "small SG"? Are we talking about 4 members? 14? 40?

If someone had just told me we were getting stations that could turn salvage into buffs with a 15 minute timer, I'd think, "Isn't that a bit long for a base raid-oriented buff?"

My humble request: If you're going to put it on a timer instead of a fixed number of charges/uses, please make it from time of activation.

I admit it, I was wrong about the buffs being PVP only...GOOD!!!

15 minutes from creation seems a bad idea; from activation is better. If from activation, make them cost A LOT of salvage (all common stuff).

I'm not convinced these items will be able to go in just any room. Positron specifically avoided answering that question.

I'd buy a raid teleporter if it allowed the team to use it to go straight to the mission door (or better yet IN the mission door) though this would make ambushes while traveling (Darn you Indigo!!!) less of a threat (Can you call a contact while in your base? Not sure I ever tried that).

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YES! Now, reduce the plot costs and everything will be sweet.

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Tell me about it! I wish they would rethink the way prestige scales towards the higher levels. Maybe if they did players would take more pride in their bases and participate in raids etc. Right now you have to sacrifice influence for prestige at lower levels and at higher levels sacrifice alot of influence for very little prestige. I just don't see the incentive for SGs to have players over 32. As much as I liked the idea of a SG base, it has turned out to be a dissapointment for me.

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Have you ever wished you could throw together some powerful instant buffs to prep for battle in your deadly lair? Now you can prepare for a fight with Empowerment Stations. These Stations, ranging from basic to advanced levels, will allow you to create amazing buffs from salvage recipes - increasing your speed, boosting your resistances, and other special bonuses!

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This announcement brought to you by the letters E and D

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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike English does not borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, hits them over the head, and rifles through their pockets for loose grammar.

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With the release of Issue 7 you can strategize in the great hall around your new table...

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Can we sit at this table? :-)

BB

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/em ledgesit

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It doesn't make sense for us to set out to help small supergroups and then charge large supergroup Prestige for the items.

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Does that mean that other things will be reasonably priced? My SG just got a teleporter after playing cov since the day of release. I would love to be exited about the new base stuff, but, alas, I just don't think we'll be able to afford any of it.

How 'bout it, Posi? Are small SG's gonna get some love?

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Empowerment station buffs are currently set at 15 minute durations (far longer than any other non-toggle buff in the game). They are bestowed on you as soon as you craft them, and last 15 minutes from there. The idea is to have enough time to get you past that sticky part of a mission that was giving you trouble.

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At that level of inconvenience, the buff had better make me glow like a tiny sun, max out whatever stat it's effecting, make pedestrians "/em praise" as I pass and cause the background music to start with the Super Mario Bros invincibility theme.

I agree Ego. It seems much of a waste to find a pain in the [censored] spot in a mission, then have everyone exit, go to there supergroup base, get buffed up, and head back. By the time you get back to the mission, and the spot, the duration will nearly be over. Thats unless you suicide and go to your base right away.

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Trust me on this one, having craftable temp powers would be great IMHO, but they would be either exploitable or basically useless.

I'm an advocate of pushing the envelope, and you have to look at the synergies involved.

Work out what would be worth crafting as a holdable temp power, then consider it at the damage cap fighting a foe weakend by a chemical burn.

There has to be a constraint or limit to these, else they can become too good.

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You mean like inspirations are now?

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Arguabley- yes. on the inspirations.



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I meant on the constrains. There not being any constraints other than inventory space as to how you can use inspirations is rather overpowered and one of the main reasons everything else in game looks so weak. Every other MMO I played that had potions (the equivalent of inspirations) had the comon sense of limiting usage by preventing stacking and adding reuse timers, sometimes adding multiple potions in the same timer.

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15 minutes is the time we are going to the Training Room with. If it turns out that that's not enough time for you to Empowerment Buff, get to the mission, and get you through the tough fight, then it will be increased.

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Ok Posi, potential problem here which to me stands out by a glaring mile but you devs appear to have missed.

Statesman has said the game can be played fine without any travelpowers, if the empowerment stations only provide a 15 minute buff then any kind of non-travelpowered hero will spend most of that buff time travelling on foot. Especially in Paragon City where the teleporters only take you to hazard zones.

Have you tried running from one end of Independance Port to the other. It takes around 10 minutes, if you then imagine trying to navigate Terra Volta it takes almost another 10 minutes as well.

Unless travel powers are to become an inherant part of every character then these buffs will not be valuable to all of the player base. Furthermore, its again enforcing the fact that players need to spend 2 powerslots for an ability which is almost mandatory to enjoy the game and certain features within.

I agree with the temp power suggestion made earlier. Cut down the duration to 10 or even 5 minutes, but make it a thing you can carry around with you, with a 1 hour shelf life.

As stated, you're looking at having to franticaly run back to your mission, hoping to make it across two zones, and then all the way through a mission map to the hard part inside 15 minutes. Imagine having a mission at the very back of Crey's Folly, and trying to run back and forth between there and the Brickstown base portal. Also, it's not very fair to people who decide not to take travel powers.

At one hour, you pretty much have to use it on your current or upcoming mission, so the temp power buffs retain their original intent. Further, if you're trying to run through a mission with an elite boss, you don't always know where or when you're going to run into the big bad, and it's kind of a pain to have to leave, run all the way to the base, then run all the way back. Why not allow for advance preparation?

I'm cool with the idea of empowerment buffs being essentially one mission only, but even with the game's minimal travel times, 15 minutes seems a bit harsh. But, better to start at "too weak" and buff as needed, rather than "too strong" and nerf it, right?

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But, better to start at "too weak" and buff as needed, rather than "too strong" and nerf it, right?

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Bingo.

Making the buffs be Inspiration or Click-power like is just ASKING for abuse. Besides, that's the type of stuff the Invention System should deal with.

Empowerment stations are instant buffs. You are bathed in radiation/magic/etc. on the spot and get a bonus to your travel speed/lethal resistance/attack speed/endurance recovery/knockback protection/whatever you need at the time, right then and there.

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As stated, you're looking at having to franticaly run back to your mission, hoping to make it across two zones, and then all the way through a mission map to the hard part inside 15 minutes. Imagine having a mission at the very back of Crey's Folly, and trying to run back and forth between there and the Brickstown base portal. Also, it's not very fair to people who decide not to take travel powers.

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If the teleporters were fixed (access to all non-PvP zones through beacons, teleporting after rez puts you at the mission door), then it would be more reasonable to use. Hit a tough fight, die, power up and return. But then - hey, you do have a 1m+ Prestige base to afford all that, right?

For a truly small SG, Empowerment of less than 30min duration is probably astonishingly pointless when you factor in travel time. Most people will exhaust the buff just running around - and unless it's a truly astounding buff, realizing you need it, running back to get it, and running back *again* to use it wastes a lot of time.

The inherent problem of course with flat duration-limited buffs is that if it lasts too long, you'll get large SGs essentially running them for hours on end in PvP zones. Most likely the buffs will have to remain uselessly inconvenient in PvE so that they don't become godly in PvP.

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But, better to start at "too weak" and buff as needed, rather than "too strong" and nerf it, right?

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Bingo.

Making the buffs be Inspiration or Click-power like is just ASKING for abuse. Besides, that's the type of stuff the Invention System should deal with.

Empowerment stations are instant buffs. You are bathed in radiation/magic/etc. on the spot and get a bonus to your travel speed/lethal resistance/attack speed/endurance recovery/knockback protection/whatever you need at the time, right then and there.

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Empowerment != Inventions

that explains a lot.

Temp powers still to come, any timeframe ?