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Making the buffs be Inspiration or Click-power like is just ASKING for abuse. Besides, that's the type of stuff the Invention System should deal with.
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So... Inventions are something else? I'm pretty sure (okay, I hope) I'm not the only one that was confused on that count. Are we still expecting to see inventions in I7 or will it be put off to a later issue?
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Empowerment stations are instant buffs. You are bathed in radiation/magic/etc. on the spot and get a bonus to your travel speed/lethal resistance/attack speed/endurance recovery/knockback protection/whatever you need at the time, right then and there.
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See, that description makes sense, but it still doesn't tell us much about the item. Does it eat salvage each time you use it? Where can you place it? Do we have access to all the different buffs or do we have to add Aux items for that?
Personally, I'm not convinced there will be a substantial benefit outside of base raids (especially factoring in travel), but ok. Now that I have more info, it sounds like what I was envisioning.
You know, giving us the bigger picture would really help us out here. I know you guys are trying to get everyone jazzed about I7, but not having all the info is bound to get people fired up in the wrong way.
Can we get a consolidated list of the features you've publicly mentioned? Preferably sooner rather than later...
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Just so you all realize, the prices Lektrik wrote are completely made up.
Everything in this issue will be "reasonably priced". It doesn't make sense for us to set out to help small supergroups and then charge large supergroup Prestige for the items.
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Where would we have gotten the impression that it was your goal to "help small supergroups." It's nice to hear that it is your goal, but if you really want to help small supergroups set base items on a sliding scale based on SG size. Even though I figured that the "million price tag" post was just conjecture, it seemed to me like a more or less reasonable guess based on the current price of items.
Just a quick thought:
How will this affect PvP? Won't people from larger SG/VG's be at a huge advantage (even moreso than they are now)? My fear is that this will widen the gap between the "LEET" and casuals a bit. Especially if the multiple buffs are allowed. Increased travel spped AND several different resistances AND damage bonus AND accuracy bonus = the shizz-nizzle.
I'm holding back my excitement a bit on this one.
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Just so you all realize, the prices Lektrik wrote are completely made up.
Everything in this issue will be "reasonably priced". It doesn't make sense for us to set out to help small supergroups and then charge large supergroup Prestige for the items.
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Where would we have gotten the impression that it was your goal to "help small supergroups." It's nice to hear that it is your goal, but if you really want to help small supergroups set base items on a sliding scale based on SG size . Even though I figured that the "million price tag" post was just conjecture, it seemed to me like a more or less reasonable guess based on the current price of items.
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(My italics), no this would create a different problem, needs to be done based on the number of accounts not the number of members. A SG with 10 members with 5 alts each is not the same as one with 50 members and can afford a lot less. I seem to remember from a previous thread that this would be very tricky to implement, but it needs looking at.
Mr Minotaur 50 stone/axe tank Freedom
Black hole sun 40 dark/thermal corruptor Protector
and 70+ others including 2 more CoH 50s and 2 more CoV 40s
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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Bingo.
Making the buffs be Inspiration or Click-power like is just ASKING for abuse. Besides, that's the type of stuff the Invention System should deal with.
Empowerment stations are instant buffs. You are bathed in radiation/magic/etc. on the spot and get a bonus to your travel speed/lethal resistance/attack speed/endurance recovery/knockback protection/whatever you need at the time, right then and there.
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Well, this just means empowerment stations are for PvP only then really. If you think they will be abused as inspiration/click type powers you should see how we will abuse them with a 15min timer on them. 
You really don't have a PvP mind at all do you Posi. You want less abuse? Here.
Make them a 1 time click power. It lasts 5 minutes after you use the item you can't use another for an hour. Do you think this would work for both PvP and PvE? Of course it would because guess what I am looking at it from both a PvP stand point and a PvE stand point. You guys are so worried about making something too overpowering in PvP that you are screwing the PvE community. Making it so that it lasts for 5 minutes but another can't be used for an hour would get people out of tough situations both in PvP and in PvE but would also not be overpowering because you can't use them over and over.
I know I am just wasting my breath because I7 is coming out soon and you guys aren't going to change how something effects you in that amount of time. You might change minor things like how long the buff lasts or the effectiveness of the buff. However you won't change that it is given to you on the spot because I'm sure you have fx and other art already in designed for these stations and you wouldn't want to take out a bad idea because that would be wasted man hours on the fx and other stuff. It's going in the way it is no matter how horrible of an idea it is.
Don't worry about changing them though. My SG will get plenty of PvP use out of it with the poorly thought out design you have them in now. You haven't even imagined abuse yet.
I like idea of having some additional help for the hard missions. And if the temp buffs prove to be unbalanced for PVP, I'm sure code could be added to suppress them when you're attacking a player-controlled character.
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But, better to start at "too weak" and buff as needed, rather than "too strong" and nerf it, right?
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Bingo.
Making the buffs be Inspiration or Click-power like is just ASKING for abuse. Besides, that's the type of stuff the Invention System should deal with.
Empowerment stations are instant buffs. You are bathed in radiation/magic/etc. on the spot and get a bonus to your travel speed/lethal resistance/attack speed/endurance recovery/knockback protection/whatever you need at the time, right then and there.
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Empowerment != Inventions
that explains a lot.
Temp powers still to come, any timeframe ?
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Considering they said inventions would use the Unis for crafting for individuals, not (just) the bases...
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
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OOO SWEET!! its about time too!
all those times ive done kora fruit missions will now come to bear so i can just DUMP all i need into containers for the SG to use
that is some sweet stuff!
OK this is a NICE perk this makes SG bases a must have now. And the new tilesets, tinting and all the NEW HAPPY HAPPY/JOY JOY stuff looks AWSOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I still want a bar and a pool table though, think it would be too much trouble to make at least a mini-fridge????
"Lokk, you have a powersuit that is self-contained, can withstand any atmosphere, it can fly and shoot out energy beams. BUT you cant open the helmet to have coffee and doughnts??? Sad man.... just... sad" PatriotPrime asking me why I am angry all the time.
Every one has been focusing on the costs of these new things. Sure they might be cheap in and of themselves but why are all these things shown in 3x3 rooms?!
This is the biggest problem facing my SG personally and a 3x3 room on an 8x8 plot is just not going to be happy. Plot sizes are gonna have to either come down in an order of magnituted of cost or be eliminated all together. My small-aspiring-to-be-moderate sized SG has managed to fill most of our plot as it but making the jump to the next size would require selling off most of the base and placing us back to square one.
This means that the cost of the items is irrelevant if the cost of the space needed to place the items is astronomical for small or moderate SGs!
Personally I would like to go up a few plot sizes so we could at least add a decorative room without compromizing room for the functional stuff the SG values.
I always thought it would be nice if SG/SV bases perhaps had their own auction style store for its members.
Meaning, members could post their unusable enhancements and people in the SG/SV could check this auction and see what is available and could purchase it. Of course I would imagine people would sell them lower than what the stores would sell new but higher than what the stores would buy them back for. So if I got some Magic SOs that I cant use I could post them on my SG/SV auction and see if I can get some cash for them. The member looking to upgrade his Magic SOs, could first go to the base and see what is available in their base auction house first. He gets a slightly reduced in price SO, and the guy selling gets some influ/infamy. SG/SV members helping each other out.
I know it would make me actually want to go to base to see whats available. This is off the top of my head and havent did any numbers with how much an SO costs compared to how much you can sell it back to the store for but. Probably tons of holes in this situation but just a thought to get people in the base interacting together????
Anyways, interested to see I7
"if I am guilty for what goes on in my mind, than give me the electric chair for all my future crimes"
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The inherent problem of course with flat duration-limited buffs is that if it lasts too long, you'll get large SGs essentially running them for hours on end in PvP zones. Most likely the buffs will have to remain uselessly inconvenient in PvE so that they don't become godly in PvP.
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This is already probably going to be a problem with the empowerment stations. 15 minutes is long, and while it isn't long when considering using it to leave a mission, use it, return to the mission and spot within the mission (esp if you don't have a travel power, or have only superspeed in Terra Volta or something) it's quite long when you consider organized use of being invited, teleported via recall friend to the entrance to the pvp zone, then zone in and use buff for 15 mins.
They might make Empowerment buffs wear off if you enter a PvP zone, then make them a bit more powerful We know they can make all buffs go away on entrance to a zone - it happens by bug often enough. So if they can't make just the Empowerment buff go away, they could just make entrance to a PvP zone remove all buffs. You can reapply them in the 25 second leeway or restart your toggles etc.
Once that is working just make it last longer. In Everquest, they had a very similar idea of tribute buffs. You went to a tribute person in your home city and donated an item and got a tribute buff, which might be regeneration or defense or something. It lasted an hour or even two. But it really was not successful; they ended up changing it to allow you to toggle it on or off and just making it less powerful.
Though maybe it is intended only to help people solo Elite Bosses who currently have difficulty with it (EG Dominators who have a whole thread about this). I can see a Dominator finishing off the mission except the EB, Going and getting Empowerment station buffs, building up dominate again on mobs on the way to the mission, then hurrying to the EB and unleashing on it. Sorta. Needs to be tested thoroughly but it sounds possible.
What I can't see is a group who failed the (hero) Respec on the very last bit of it, going to get the buff while in the Reactor core on their 2nd try... well maybe the ones who died could 
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Every one has been focusing on the costs of these new things. Sure they might be cheap in and of themselves but why are all these things shown in 3x3 rooms?!
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Because the shots are also showing off the banners and colour tinting!
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This means that the cost of the items is irrelevant if the cost of the space needed to place the items is astronomical for small or moderate SGs!
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OH FFS. CAN WE PLEASE BE SO RECKLESS AS TO ASSUME THAT WHEN THE DEVS SAY THEY ARE DOING THIS FOR SMALL SGS, THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
I think it's great that bases are getting some features that can help small supergroups. It's all good to have more stuff and more reasons to actually have a base.
However, it makes me chuckle when I see the enormous sizes of the rooms they use to display the new capabilities of the bases. When the empowerment stations become available, my room to hold it will most likely look like this rather than the grandiose rooms they show.
I wish I could afford a larger room, but alas
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(My italics), no this would create a different problem, needs to be done based on the number of accounts not the number of members. A SG with 10 members with 5 alts each is not the same as one with 50 members and can afford a lot less. I seem to remember from a previous thread that this would be very tricky to implement, but it needs looking at.
Mr Minotaur 50 stone/axe tank Freedom
Black hole sun 40 dark/thermal corruptor Protector
and 70+ others including 2 more CoH 50s and 2 more CoV 40s
[/ QUOTE ]
True, # of accounts would be better, or if not feasible, amount of presitge or total amount of playtime would each work better than # of toons.
I also want to add one more thing. I think the tone of Posi's post was a little negative. To say that they were "completely made up" is needlessly hostile. I don't think it's very likely that Lektrik used a random number generator to come up with his figures. I 'd be willing to bet that the guesses were based on experience with today's item costs not "completely made up."
Will wait and see how this ends up like, but 100% of the hype i had on it just faded away.
On top of it now im fearing the invention system will be filled with single use click powers that require you to spend days and days farming to craft.
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15 minutes is the time we are going to the Training Room with. If it turns out that that's not enough time for you to Empowerment Buff, get to the mission, and get you through the tough fight, then it will be increased.
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Over in the Isles, it has as of late taken me at least three or more minutes simply to zone...longer if I'm zoning into a mission with a lot of people in the group. I know this, because people have noticed and ask jokingly if I'm on dial-up.
61866 - A Series of Unfortunate Kidnappings - More than a coincidence?
2260 - The Burning of Hearts - A green-eyed monster holds the match.
379248 - The Spider Without Fangs - NEW - Some lessons learned (more or less.)
Groovy. So Empowerment and Invention are two different things. I can dig it.
PERC Supporter
La Pucelle (BS/SR)
Miseria Bella (Sonic/Dark)
Wrangler Annie (SS/Elec)
Coldsmoke (Ice/Dark)
Saber Maid (BS/Regen)
and others...
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We know they can make all buffs go away on entrance to a zone - it happens by bug often enough. So if they can't make just the Empowerment buff go away, they could just make entrance to a PvP zone remove all buffs. You can reapply them in the 25 second leeway or restart your toggles etc.
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If they cleared off all clicky buffs on entering a PvP zone, this would also fix the weirdness of people entering SC with Unstoppable, MoG or AB on.
As it stands, the "small SG buffs" are actually more useful for a PvP SG than they are for the people the buffs were intended to help. Die in PvP zone, rez in base, buff yourself, zone right back - even the "drop in the middle of the zone" isn't an issue, since that just gets you closer to the action! Instead of wasting half the buff running around, you essentially get full use, since you only zone once while buffed, and jump right back in the action.
@Mindshadow
So it's like those destroyable lab stations in the lab maps? The ones that give you a random buff when they're destroyed, and they last for like 3-5 minutes or something like that? Awesome!
Those were always helpful buffs!
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CAN WE PLEASE BE SO RECKLESS AS TO ASSUME THAT WHEN THE DEVS SAY THEY ARE DOING THIS FOR SMALL SGS, THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
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I for one would like to live in a world where design intentions and functional implementation were one and the same. It would be a better place, I think.
However, we do not live in such a place, and pointing out potential flaws in an idea, especially flaws which can be extrapolated from how similar features were implemented in the past, is entirely valid criticism.
@Mindshadow
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OH FFS. CAN WE PLEASE BE SO RECKLESS AS TO ASSUME THAT WHEN THE DEVS SAY THEY ARE DOING THIS FOR SMALL SGS, THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
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No Can Do.
I am seeing way too much glossy packaging and no substantive, objective information on Issue 7. Some concrete facts would be good at this point to be assured that its all gonna fit together.
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Making the buffs be Inspiration or Click-power like is just ASKING for abuse. Besides, that's the type of stuff the Invention System should deal with.
Empowerment stations are instant buffs. You are bathed in radiation/magic/etc. on the spot and get a bonus to your travel speed/lethal resistance/attack speed/endurance recovery/knockback protection/whatever you need at the time, right then and there.
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But doesn't it make sense that the uniquely long duration is a sign that perhaps there is a flaw in the implementation? You are obviously trying to make the duration appropriate, so that's not the problem. The problem is having to factor in travel time, random location of missions, progress into the mission (will you have to go through four elevators to get back to where you were) whether or not the base has teleporters and medical equipment, and include enough time to compensate for all of that, and yet not include too much in case the travel time is NOT that long. You can compute about how much time you'll need the buff. The question is how much time that more random factor will add on top of that.
The point is, you are NOT providing "whatever you need at the time, right then and there". The only Powers for which that is true would be travel powers, all others are applied before you need them, with a duration you hope covers the period in which they are needed.
Of course, another way to look at Empowerment Stations is that they are NOT intended to be used for a single encounter, but instead are for a specific mission that may be proving too difficult, or even a whole session of play. In that case, though, you certainly want the duration to be longer, even if you have to reduce the EFFECT. In other words, it's a semi-auto Power, just with a duration.
It may be that fifteen or thirty minutes is enough time for a "session". And I'm guessing that it will be easier to implement if the duration is a constant, although that's by no means a given. Travel powers you would certainly want a long duration, but the other types of power, no matter the duration, will probably only be USED for a short time.
Quite frankly, I really feel that travel powers are really going to be the most usable, and everything else will just turn out too situational. It may turn out that players craft a Power on the spur of the moment (I've got the resources for an X, might as well make one) more often than they plan it out.
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However, we do not live in such a place, and pointing out potential flaws in an idea, especially flaws which can be extrapolated from how similar features were implemented in the past, is entirely valid criticism.
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Positron has said, over and over, that these additions are going to be for small SGs. It's just ludicrous to come up with something like 'so the station is cheap but OMG what if you have to buy a big room to put it in!!!! Then small SGs won't be able to afford it!!!!'
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The inherent problem of course with flat duration-limited buffs is that if it lasts too long, you'll get large SGs essentially running them for hours on end in PvP zones. Most likely the buffs will have to remain uselessly inconvenient in PvE so that they don't become godly in PvP.
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That's very true. But again, even as it stands now, short-duration crafted buffs will favor attackers in Raid PvP. And Attackers already seem to have a fairly large advantage.
That is, unless the buffs are prohibitively expensive to craft, which would invalidate their use in PvE.
All in all, the whole concept of craftable buffs seems like a balance nightmare once you factor in PvP. Temp powers are ALREADY arguably abused in PvP zones. There's a poster in this very thread who talks about using them all the time on her Stalker, for instance.