Devs: Any hope for the flight pool?
By
Aaron123,
Posted on: 2006-01-23 09:14 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Dev's will never make all power pool powers have equal tactical value. Prove me wrong!
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I'd be tickled with just a non-PvP Zone, non-Arena, non-Base Raid speed boost to Flight/Hover to make it worth 6 slotting again for flight speed.
But that's just me. 
I agree completely. My scrapper flew (well, hovered) in combat from about lvl 22 all the way to 50. Post-ed, she's grounded. I can't move fast enough with hover to be effective in combat anymore. I find it very disapointing, because the flying super-hero is such a staple of comic-books.
Please! Give Sooner back her wings!
I certainly hope they do something with flight speeds. Thanks to ED, players no longer have the option of maxing out their flight speeds - it's impossible to hit the cap now. Really takes a big bite out of Hover as well. Considering the insane movement ability one can get out of Combat Jumping/Super Leap and Hurdle, taking the alternate approach of slotting the heck out of Hover shouldn't be penalized.
Statesman did say they were looking at doing something for Hover/Fly way back when ED first hit. It's anyone's guess when they'll get fixed, though. From what I've gathered, these changes take months to implement internally with all the multitasking going on.
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I personally find it ridiculous that Super Leap is faster than Fly. How can someone hop up and down faster from point A to point B than someone flying in a straight line? Sad.
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I'd like to see something done about flight too. I have hover 3 slotted on my brute, which works well for PvE missions for added defense and great range of motion (the fact that I usually team with kinetics corruptor is nice too, SB FTW). I took TP as my main method of transportation. As for the PvP aspect, it's not so great, I can't chase anything down. I have to rely on team mates to slow/hold my prey.
I took fly on two of my other villains though, It's a little disappointing. Very slow, lots of end. Some may argue that you get unlimited mobility. I would counter that there are likely more -fly powers than there are against other travel powers, and they're all targeted. What i mean is all you have to do to bring down a flier is target that person, click your power, and he falls, provided it connects. Almost all other counter travel powers are AoE (exept for Lingering radiation and ice blasts/shiver), meaning, that they can be avoided if a player is observant enough to go around.
tangent.
I agree that flight speed should be looked at and/or the end cost of it.
All of my toons had fly pool, but since ED I'm now disgusted with it, especially for PVP. Hover is so unreasonable at its current speed. To compound this, there is like double the amount of -fly powers out there, compared to -jump, to clip our wings even further. This is another example of the devs backing us into particular pools, like they did pre ED with Hasten, and Stamina. Jump pool FTW........
Good heavens man! When they finally got around to dealing with Fly, they broke it all to hell. Let's not encourage them.
The last word received on any potential buffs for Hover, or any of the other pre-travel movement powers, has been "No."
According to the developer with whom I spoke, the reasoning is that buffing Hover, Hurdle, Swift, Sprint, Quickness, Combat Jumping, or any other pre-travel movement power will permit players to create characters capable of bypassing Suppression.
The original excuse for failing to buff the pre-travel movement powers when ED was being implimented was, according to Statesman, "To ensure that movement buffs would always be necessary and appreciated". When it was pointed out that movement buffs are, in reality, limited to a very select few powersets, and that said buffs were no more available or less welcome in the pre-ED game, Statesman agreed that the failure to buff the powers in question was an oversight.
So the answer was originally "Yes, we'll see what we can do", but is now, "No, we think Hover is overpowered".
To expand on this, I made it a point to mention that Suppression was currently EASILY avoidable with Inertial Reduction, Speed Boost, Siphon Speed, or SR scrappers slotting 3 Run Speed SOs in Swift, Sprint, and Quickness, as well as anyone slotting 3 Jump SOs in Hurdle and 2 Jump SOs in Sprint. The response to this was, "Good points, but that doesn't mean we agree that Hover (my note here, a power that REQUIRES a MINIMUM of 3 slots just to keep up with UNSLOTTED SPRINT) should be buffed."
They are attempting to find a method of implimenting Suppression across the board, at which time they "may take another look at the powers".
In other words, don't hold your breath.
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I personally find it ridiculous that Super Leap is faster than Fly. How can someone hop up and down faster from point A to point B than someone flying in a straight line? Sad.
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The real issue in this question is balance. While logistically speaking yes you should be able to get from point A to point B faster when moving in a straight line. However, the balance supposedly comes from flight's safety (I'm not advocating what the devs have done in fact I find it just as deplorable as you, I'm just trying to reasonably explain it.) The risk when taking off from point A using SJ is in the fact that you inevitably must land, occasionally in a group of mobs. Whereas, using flight all mobs (save the high flying longbow versions of sky skiffs etc.,) are avoidable lowering the amount of risk you have. If flight were faster that SJ, SS, or TP, than what would be the point of anyone taking any of the other travel powers if they can get from point A to point B not only faster with flight, but also much, much more safely.
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I personally find it ridiculous that Super Leap is faster than Fly. How can someone hop up and down faster from point A to point B than someone flying in a straight line? Sad.
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The real issue in this question is balance. While logistically speaking yes you should be able to get from point A to point B faster when moving in a straight line. However, the balance supposedly comes from flight's safety (I'm not advocating what the devs have done in fact I find it just as deplorable as you, I'm just trying to reasonably explain it.) The risk when taking off from point A using SJ is in the fact that you inevitably must land, occasionally in a group of mobs. Whereas, using flight all mobs (save the high flying longbow versions of sky skiffs etc.,) are avoidable lowering the amount of risk you have. If flight were faster that SJ, SS, or TP, than what would be the point of anyone taking any of the other travel powers if they can get from point A to point B not only faster with flight, but also much, much more safely.
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Having extensively used both powers, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that Super Jump is MUCH safer than Fly unless you Fly at or near the ceiling. Fly is so slow that you can't always get away if you use it to escape. Whereas I've jumped right into a group of ten purple mobs and been 150 yds. away before they can react.
SJ is the most flexible and cheapest travel power. Thus it is selected at a rate that FAR outstrips its presence in the comics.
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Hover: We might buff it some, at some point. However, it should never be an effective travel power.
Flight: I'll talk to geko about it. No promises. (I got spoiled by the Holiday Jet Pack, too!)
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Hover: We might buff it some, at some point. However, it should never be an effective travel power.
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I think a lot of people would like it if it were faster than unslotted sprint with three flight speed SOs.
As for effective at travel, Combat Jumping + Hurdle can already do this to a point. Getting Hover to where it can work about as well shouldn't break anything. Not saying as fast, but it really should be better than sprint, especially with slots invested.
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Hover: We might buff it some, at some point. However, it should never be an effective travel power.
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I think a lot of people would like it if it were faster than unslotted sprint with three flight speed SOs.
As for effective at travel, Combat Jumping + Hurdle can already do this to a point. Getting Hover to where it can work about as well shouldn't break anything. Not saying as fast, but it really should be better than sprint, especially with slots invested.
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Amen... sista? brotha? Who knows these days... If hurdle + combat jumping can get me moving as fast as superspeed, then hover should be good for something. Or reduce the god awful endurance drain on Fly. I can handle the supression during battle, but man the endurance drain is ginormous.
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If hurdle + combat jumping can get me moving as fast as superspeed, then hover should be good for something.
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That makes a lot of sense. And of course, that's why it won't happen.
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Hover: We might buff it some, at some point. However, it should never be an effective travel power.
Flight: I'll talk to geko about it. No promises. (I got spoiled by the Holiday Jet Pack, too!)
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My understanding was that the reason for the cap on Flight, Super Speed, and Super Jump was because of a maximum speed on the game engine. Since Super Speed's speed had to be superior to Flight, (since it had no vertical component) and Super Speed was capped at the game's limitation, Flight had to be capped, at 6 SOs, at a speed much less.
In fact, the cap ended up about 3.5 SOs. Which means that it can probably be raised a little, and still hit the cap at 3 SOs, which is now the limit. And since there IS a cap, there really isn't a big problem with raising it anyway, since it will always be slower than Super Speed.
Also, I've said since the beginning that Flying should start out slower than Super Jump, but I don't really think it would be an issue if it ended up slightly faster. It is the only travel power that increases in speed as you level (Well, I think maybe Sprint does, too) so you spend the majority of your time annoyed with how slow Flying is. The final speed which is being used for comparison is one that most players of the game have not yet reached.
As Flying is the only travel power that was capped at over 3 SOs, I think looking at it in light of ED changes wouldn't be a bad idea.
Why not half the end cost, and double the base flight speed?
Right now its the SLOWEST, and most end intensive "travel" power in the game. It will run you dry if you pick it up at 14 and fly across the zone with it.
Goodness people. You do realize this is a game right? I've been claiming for years that flight was too slow, especially when I discovered a buddy of mine with SR and no travel power went faster than I did with 6 SO fly. But cut them some slack please. You have made your points, they are looking into it, and if they feel something needs to be changed, it will be.
This is reminding me of all those anti-ED posts that people made. Goodness...
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Hover: We might buff it some, at some point. However, it should never be an effective travel power.
Flight: I'll talk to geko about it. No promises. (I got spoiled by the Holiday Jet Pack, too!)
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Thanks Castle. We know not to expect miracles, but perhaps you can get the lizard to do something. At least on the endurance cost.
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Well, strength in numbers.
Anyway, I agree with points people have been making. I dont think that "safety" constitutues high endurance cost AND slow speed. Fly isn't that much safer in comparison to the others anyway (all are pretty safe to me).
Just adding my voice to the group:
Less END, and a bit quicker would be wonderful.
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Why not half the end cost, and double the base flight speed?
Right now its the SLOWEST, and most end intensive "travel" power in the game. It will run you dry if you pick it up at 14 and fly across the zone with it.
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Slowest yes, but the prize for most end intensive travel power goes to teleport, hands down. I hope they'll look at tp too, I hate getting the red circle when i want to get the hell out of a bad situation, and the end use is horrible. Anyways yay buff to hover/fly! (I hope, I've got a lot of flying characters)
If nothing else, please please lower the endurance cost.
There is really no reason for fliers to have to stop and rest halfway across a zone.
While your at it, take a look at teleport's cost also? Both have been out of proportion with super speed and super jump since release, and it just doesn't make much sense...
I think Flight is fine. Most of my characters are flyers, and, even if my teammates can beat me to missions, I still think I'm far better over all in terms of hover blasting/buffing.
I'm still rather confused/upset at why Group Flight somehow missed the "Flight shall no longer have -Acc" memo. Did a Dev screw up here? GFly would actually be useful then. No, everytime I try and use it to get my pets up somewhere, all I get from my team is "Turn that damn Group Flight off! I can't hit anything!" Which really, griefing fellow teammates with it seems to be it's main function. I wish there was atleast some way that I could make it work on my pets only. Or, better yet, remove the -Acc like it should have been done a couple Issues ago.
Since there does not seem to be any hope that ED will ever go away, I was wondering if there will be any changes to flight enhancements or a buff to flight speed? I think that it is kind of crazy that it is the only travel power that can not reach its top speed without buffs. Also I really miss my 6-slotted hover. If any forum users read this post have you had any pm response concerning any possible change to the flight pool?
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