Few other QoL things...

Galactiman · 01-12-2006 07:54 AM

And so it goes. One man's buff is another man's nerf.

NotDoc · 01-12-2006 07:56 AM

I hate when people respond to stuff like this with their own limited agenda. That's why I'll keep this short...

Toggle-dropping is one of the only useful things a Dominator brings to the table in PVP. This is from experience (I have a 40 Dom and PVP a lot). Holds don't do anything thanks to the Break Free candy stores in every PVP zone, and Dom damage is the lowest in either game. On a small team or in a massive villain-vs-hero battle, the best way I can help my team is to plug away at Scrappers and Tankers with my Dominator toggle-dropper melee powers. Without these working reliably (and they only drop 1 toggle per hit), I would really be dead weight. Please keep that in mind when you're reducing toggle-dropper powers. Thanks.

Optimator · 01-12-2006 08:14 AM

My main PvP character is an elec/elec blapper, and I don't think that this is a bad change. Quite frankly, I don't NEED toggle-dropping to take out most villains I've encountered in BB and SC. I do enough damage to squish the squishies quite nicely, and can do very respectable damage to brutes. And I'm only at lvl 26 with him, so I don't even have Thunder Strike yet, which means my damage potential is only going to go up.

Fact is, toggle dropping is currently ridiculous. Blappers consistently dominate melee ATs. I know some of you find the thought of this changing to be quite upsetting, but thematically, a melee AT should be superior in melee.

Stupid_Fanboy · 01-12-2006 08:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
It disheartens me to see those of you who play primarily meleers actually celebrating that another AT is getting nerfed.

[/ QUOTE ]

no, i believe they are celebrating the toning down of a terrible kludge that adds to extremely unbalanced nature of pvp. PvP is and has been woefully unbalanced and if if this is the start of them actually making real strides towards balancing it, then it's a great thing.

perhaps they'll actually encourage and incentivize blasters to stay at range through further changes. who knows.

also, i'm tickled at the irony of you berating people for celebrating someone's nerf.

Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.

▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲

Stupid_Fanboy · 01-12-2006 08:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I hate when people respond to stuff like this with their own limited agenda. That's why I'll keep this short...
.
Toggle-dropping is one of the only useful things a Dominator brings to the table in PVP. This is from experience (I have a 40 Dom and PVP a lot). Holds don't do anything thanks to the Break Free candy stores in every PVP zone, and Dom damage is the lowest in either game. On a small team or in a massive villain-vs-hero battle, the best way I can help my team is to plug away at Scrappers and Tankers with my Dominator toggle-dropper melee powers. Without these working reliably (and they only drop 1 toggle per hit), I would really be dead weight. Please keep that in mind when you're reducing toggle-dropper powers. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are severely understating the usefulness of holds. I've had plenty of Dominators blow through the status protection of my tankers and scrappers. It's a race to see if I can beat them before they hold me. Note that. They hold me, it's only a matter of time. Break frees only last so long and can also be broken through unless you stack a bunch and so far, it hasn't taken too long for a Dom to make me run through all the break frees in my tray.

Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.

▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲

Ohms__NA · 01-12-2006 09:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Fact is, toggle dropping is currently ridiculous. Blappers consistently dominate melee ATs. I know some of you find the thought of this changing to be quite upsetting, but thematically, a melee AT should be superior in melee.

[/ QUOTE ]

psst Blappers are a melee AT. Rather, there are no "melee" ATs. There are those that can take a punch, and those that cannot. Blasters and Blappers give up defensive capacity for offensive capacity. It matters not one wit at what range that damage is dished out. Are they supposed to give up offensive capacity as well?

LibertyStar · 01-12-2006 09:47 AM

For the most part I honestly think this may only be a Blaster toggle drop change. The Defender/Controller/Mastermind/Dominator/Corruptor ones arent as hard to deal with as fighting a Blapper who does nothing but constantly drop toggles.

How many of us Blasters who use melee attacks did NOT see the toggle dropping change coming? I did and I dont mind it. With the universal defense/dmg resistance reductions is there really any need for powers that can drop up to 3 toggles at once? Do I want it to go away? Nope.

I wouldnt mind seeing our toggle droppers have %s to drop one toggle for each melee power used. The %s would be based on dmg and secondary effect. Like Energy Punch would be 100% 1 toggle all the time and then say Bone Smasher is 50% 1 toggle all the time. Please keep in mind I am tossing these %s out as examples and not what I think they should be.

Some think this will curtail the use of Blappers in PvP. I dont think it will. The toggle dropping is nice bonus but the sad truth for those Blasters with Energy as their secondary the combo of Energy Punch+Bone Smasher+Total Focus deals more dmg then most ranged attack chain can (Ice may be an exception). Plus Defiance just seems to work better in melee then at ranged in PvP.

Dominator holds are nice and they are stackable but it all matters on how fast you can stack them versus just how long youll live. It takes 3-4 stacked holds to break mez protection now. For Fire/Mind Dominators it is much easier to stack them due to lower animation times, then say an Ice/Grav Dominator. Toss in the to hit chances and it becomes harder for the Dominators to get holds stacked versus the time it would take for them to run in and use a combo of their melee+holds to establish a successful hold.

And finally YAY on the whole Blizzard buffable change! Now Ill be able to (hopefully) use Fulcrum Shift on my Blizzard! I am a very happy Blaster/Corruptor today.

JaZonZ · 01-12-2006 10:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We just received tech that will allow players to pass buffs onto certain powers (such as Blizzard).

[/ QUOTE ] Um...what does this mean exactly?

[/ QUOTE ]
I second this question!

EDIT: I trust the posters who have already answered this but I wouldn't mind an amen from a dev.

Logarithm · 01-12-2006 10:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We're tweaking with toggle dropping...mostly decreasing its overall effect

[/ QUOTE ]

Not every single Blaster that PvP's has melee attacks or has access to Buildup....

Devices Blasters get their toggle droppers at levels 28 and 35 in Tripmine and Timebomb (whereas all the other Blaster Secondaries get their toggle droppers at 4 and 10) ... Both of which often have to be used with TP Foe and require set up time as well...

I wonder if that's been considered...

[/ QUOTE ]

I can only hope that, since this announcement was a looooong time in coming, the devs took a hard look at blaster secondaries(and every possible primary pairing) for balance issues.

Toggle drops were a fix to the symptoms of PvP imbalance within the blaster archetype(among other things).

If the devs haven't fixed the actual imbalance, changing toggle drops will be the equivalent of "passing around" the short end of the PvP stick to a different archetype for a bit.

If an AR/fire blaster had equivalent performance to an Ice/EM in PvP, there wouldn't be any need for blasters to have toggle drops. The devs could just pick an arbitrary percent of unresistable damage and all would be right with the PvP world.

I hope this announcement means that the devs are finally tackling the roots of PvP imbalance, and no longer inventing mechanics to cover up the symptoms.

Toning down or removing an unfun mechanic can only be a good thing for all archetypes long-term. Even if it may cause short-term imbalances(depending on how detailed the TD plan is, it may be good for everyone, right out of the box).

Ohms__NA · 01-12-2006 10:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I can only hope that, since this announcement was a looooong time in coming, the devs took a hard look at blaster secondaries(and every possible primary pairing) for balance issues.

[/ QUOTE ]

Start holding your breath...... now!

NotDoc · 01-12-2006 10:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I can only hope that, since this announcement was a looooong time in coming, the devs took a hard look at blaster secondaries(and every possible primary pairing) for balance issues.

...If an AR/fire blaster had equivalent performance to an Ice/EM in PvP, there wouldn't be any need for blasters to have toggle drops.

[/ QUOTE ]
God, amen to that! I PVP all the time and I never... ever... eeeeever see anything other than /Energy Blasters. Basically only noobs and people devoted to concept take other secondaries, and it's been that way for a long time now. Compared to the uber damage melee attacks and the utility of Power Boost, Boost Range, and Conserve Power, the other secondary sets are garbage.

Lynx_Nordique · 01-12-2006 10:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
We're tweaking with toggle dropping...mostly decreasing its overall effect.

[/ QUOTE ]

YES! YES! YES!
WOOHOOOOOOO

/em uncontrolably jump of joy

Pinnacle:
Lynx Nordique: lvl50 Claws/Regen Scrapper, Physique 101: lvl50 Kin/Nrg Defender
Freedom:
Feu Radieux: lvl50 Fire/Rad Controller, Rocheuse: lvl50 Earth/Rad controller, Madame Kyoto: lvl50 Katana/Regen scrapper, Hivernale: lvl50 Ice/Kin Controller, Leve du Jour: lvl50 Earth/Kin controller

Futurias · 01-12-2006 10:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
We're tweaking with toggle dropping...mostly decreasing its overall effect.

[/ QUOTE ]

On deeper thought, I *really* hope toggle dropping is going away, as being Hulk and then suddenly turned into that wimp Bruce Banner is just not fun.

Still here, even after all this time!

Ms_Teri · 01-12-2006 10:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder how far this will extend. Using inspirations or self-buffs before casting controller/dominator pets comes to mind...

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt it will be the pets, since there's a way to use inspirs on a MM pets already and there have been comments about giving controllers MM like control of their pets would make them too powerful, so I think pets will stay the same. (and most pets receive cast buffs and heals already)

However, I was wondering about some of the summoning def and controller powers like lightning storm, freezing rain, tornado) (Ok I admit I have a 50 stormie . . .) and some of the field powers (If I could use acc inspirs on choking cloud . . .)

This would be a huge change for stormie in particular and defs, controllers, and corrupters in particular.

On Justice

Psi_Ko · 01-12-2006 10:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
We're tweaking with toggle dropping...mostly decreasing its overall effect.

[/ QUOTE ]

Toggle users buffed, toggle droppers nerfed? weeeeeeeeeee! Now we're getting somewhere.

[ QUOTE ]
We just received tech that will allow players to pass buffs onto certain powers (such as Blizzard).

[/ QUOTE ]

Whats the catch? Will there be a nerf to base numbers for this new buffable goodness?

Irika · 01-12-2006 11:30 AM

Does this mean that burn is affected by fury,buildup and fiery embrace?

WeirdBeard · 01-12-2006 11:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We just received tech that will allow players to pass buffs onto certain powers (such as Blizzard).

[/ QUOTE ] Um...what does this mean exactly?

[/ QUOTE ]
I second this question!

EDIT: I trust the posters who have already answered this but I wouldn't mind an amen from a dev.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's pretty much what other posters already suggested. Many effects in the game are actually temporary pets (Blizzard, Fulcrum Shift, Caltrops, Burn, Ice Patch, etc). Since they are distinct entities, they are spawned fresh and buffless. This change allows the designers specify that a pet should get copies of buffs on the creator (Damage and To-Hit inspirations, Power Boost, Build Up/Aim, Accelerate Metabolism, Fulcrum Shift, etc). So yes, you could potentially Power Boost an Ice Storm, and having Fortitude could increase your Burn damage.

Galactiman · 01-12-2006 12:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
increase ... Burn damage.

[/ QUOTE ]
I just hope you don't get fired for using those three words in the same sentence.

Red_Zero · 01-12-2006 12:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
increase ... Burn damage.

[/ QUOTE ]

/emote Drops Jaw in disbelief

HeroVorkk · 01-12-2006 12:15 PM

This creates some questions....

If the caster has Fort on him when he casts Burn, the damage of burn is increased, yes?

What if Burn is cast then Fortitude is applied to the caster after? Does this increase Burn damage of the already existing Burn patch?

Fulcrum Shift... If the caster of Caltrops, Blizzard or other "temporary pets" powers has FS buffs on him when he casts the Caltrops (and others), do the Caltrops do more damage?

What if the FS is done AFTER the caltrops are already out?

What if the caltrops are already out AND they are in the AoE of the FS when FS is cast?

The basic question here is... does the buff have to be already on the caster of the "temporary pet" power for that "pet" to be buffed?

SDragon · 01-12-2006 12:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We just received tech that will allow players to pass buffs onto certain powers (such as Blizzard).

[/ QUOTE ] Um...what does this mean exactly?

[/ QUOTE ]
I second this question!

EDIT: I trust the posters who have already answered this but I wouldn't mind an amen from a dev.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's pretty much what other posters already suggested. Many effects in the game are actually temporary pets (Blizzard, Fulcrum Shift, Caltrops, Burn, Ice Patch, etc). Since they are distinct entities, they are spawned fresh and buffless. This change allows the designers specify that a pet should get copies of buffs on the creator (Damage and To-Hit inspirations, Power Boost, Build Up/Aim, Accelerate Metabolism, Fulcrum Shift, etc). So yes, you could potentially Power Boost an Ice Storm, and having Fortitude could increase your Burn damage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Say WHAAAAT?

Cobaltix · 01-12-2006 12:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
increase ... Burn damage.

[/ QUOTE ]
I just hope you don't get fired for using those three words in the same sentence.

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly, after the hammering that Burn has taken over the last couple of patches, it needs a little buffing.

Not that my Fire/EM will be picking it up again or anything ...

Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes

Catwhoorg · 01-12-2006 12:20 PM

Burn ? It has damage still ?

/em rushes of to bug THAT oversight

@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617

StarkRavingMad2 · 01-12-2006 12:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Many effects in the game are actually temporary pets (Blizzard, Fulcrum Shift, Caltrops, Burn, Ice Patch, etc). Since they are distinct entities, they are spawned fresh and buffless. ... So yes, you could potentially Power Boost an Ice Storm, and having Fortitude could increase your Burn damage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hate to be the curmudgeon here, but I can't help but notice this.

To date Defense has not scaled with the enemy difficulty. God knows how many powers, as it turns out, were not getting buffed by inspirations or certain powers. Many of us who don't follow the confusing number-crunching threads were completley unaware of this. Knowing (now) that the powers worked (or rather didn't work) this way really explains A LOT about why certain toons were getting their butts kicked when I tried them out.

IOW... we've been playing a broken game for the past year.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they are fixing these things. They sound like they will definitely improve the game.

--
My AE Story Arcs:
Family Matters - 82136

Crawler · 01-12-2006 12:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We just received tech that will allow players to pass buffs onto certain powers (such as Blizzard).

[/ QUOTE ] Um...what does this mean exactly?

[/ QUOTE ]
I second this question!

EDIT: I trust the posters who have already answered this but I wouldn't mind an amen from a dev.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's pretty much what other posters already suggested. Many effects in the game are actually temporary pets (Blizzard, Fulcrum Shift, Caltrops, Burn, Ice Patch, etc). Since they are distinct entities, they are spawned fresh and buffless. This change allows the designers specify that a pet should get copies of buffs on the creator (Damage and To-Hit inspirations, Power Boost, Build Up/Aim, Accelerate Metabolism, Fulcrum Shift, etc). So yes, you could potentially Power Boost an Ice Storm, and having Fortitude could increase your Burn damage.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if power boost even effects this or not but was wondering if this would be possible within this upcoming change. Power Boost(Primal Forces APP) then use Fulcrum Shift on a group of critters. Would PB boost the Damage Debuff on the critters and the Damage Buff on team?

I know PB boosts things like disorients, holds and defense buffs but was not sure if it boosted Damage Buff/Debuffs