Few other QoL things...
By
8_Ball,
Posted on: 2006-01-11 18:07 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Dude...does this mean I will actually have to take build up on my ice blaster now? O.O Not that I'll ever play her again anyway ...
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As you're looking at toggle-dropping, I hope you're considering changing the likelihood of toggles dropping when mezzed and/or decreasing the recharge time and activation time of toggles. I'm thinking on non-melee toggles especially. The leadership pools, stealth/defense auras.
There's one specifically that is a personal pet peeve: Radiation's Choking Cloud. It's a toggle, a not-very-powerful hold aura, that has a very long recharge (90 seconds). Sadly, it's basically not worth it to run against most villain groups, because the amount of toggle-drop mezzing is just crazy. And since it's PBAOE, I have to be in proximity to the foes for it work -- where it's much more likely I'll be mezzed -- creating a vicious cycle. Something needs to be done to help this power in particular.
I would like to know more details about the "tweaking" to toggle dropping, since Energy actually has respectable damage and a side effect (disorient), and its blast set actually has a lot of, you know, blasts, Electric will not fare as well if this change is too drastic.
If toggle dropping is nerfed to the point where I cant even melee, since I cant blast well, and my "secondary effect" is essentially worthless, then what am I going to do in PvP besides get mercilessly slaughtered?
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I myself have been considering more and more that if the numbers with defense and resistance are considered to be about where they should be and toggle dropping is being brought into line, perhaps Tankers should be granted some offensive punch in a form which would still play and feel differently than the attacks of the Scrapper. I thought about a sort of slow, impressive Tanker "super attack" that would hit one target extremely hard every now and then, but generate massive aggro--a kind of Aggro Alpha, if you will. This would also benefit the Tanker faintly though noticeably in solo and PvP battles, but in a very tangible and fun way!
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The aggro idea is interesting, maybe we can combine our ideas. 
I don't think Tanks need any more damage, but I think one extreme-magnitude attack would definitely make them a threat in PvP. Other players may even target them without being Taunted first! 
I don't think this would be overpowered because one, you have to hit the target first, and two, the other melee-ers could still resist the attack with another hero buffing their status resistance or a by taking a "break free".
I call it turning Tanks into "shock troopers".
Why not use surpression here:
Brawl: 50% chance surpressing 1 toggle for 10s
Assassin Strike: 100% chance 1 toggle for 15s, 75% chance 1 toggle for 15s, 50% chance 1 toggle for 15s
Just some example numbers, they would have to be tweaked of course.
Basically, the toggles are surpressed, and don't give their benefit, but are not toggled off. Once the surpression timer, which is based on the power used to detoggle runs out, the toggle starts working again.
Addtionally, for PvP you could introduce +Surpression Enhancements, they would not increase the chance of a power detoggling, but the time the toggles are supressed. This would offer new possibilites for PvP slotting.
The same would work for PvE. If you are hit with a hold for example, you are locked into place, and cannot move or do anything like now, and your toggles, whatever you might have running won't give any benefit (debateable if they cost endurance while surpressed). Once the hold runs its course, you can move again, and your toggles are working fully again, without you having to restart each one manually.
The thing that annoys me the most about the whole toggle dropping is not so much the dropping itself, but the aggravating time to restart them all. Having fought the original Balista-1 with Dark Armour Brute, I didn't mind his ability that much, he put up a good fight for once, but the stupid annoying time to go through all the toggle power up animations again and again really pissed me off 
Surpression, here could be a welcomed tool for once IMO.
As for the buff ability on blizzards (assume rains in general)... Hooray 
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We just received tech that will allow players to pass buffs onto certain powers (such as Blizzard).
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To me that means once something like Blizzard is cast and exists in the game world, then something like Fortitude or Fulcrum Shift may be cast onto it. Basically, they will now be AI-less, immobile pets. That means self-buffing powers such as Aim or Build-up still would not affect them.
And my money is on Burn NOT being one of the powers that gets this feature.
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I think you're missing the context of previous discussions on the powers we're talking about.
I guarantee you it means buffs that affect the caster now will be inherited by place powers they "cast".
You use Build Up and then Rain of Fire, the RoF gets a +100% damage buff and a 62.5% toHit buff (or whatever the real value is), just like Fireball would.
That's what it means. Today, you can't do that, and it's been wished for by the players for a very, very long time.
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If I understand it correctly, some powers are implemented as separate "temporary creatures", rather than coming directly from the player character. Thus any temporary buff that the player had, such as red inspirations, fulcrum shift, increased metabolism, etc, does not carry over to that power. Call it a pseudo-pet or something, as it is not separately buffable as a real pet is.
CoH and CoV is apparently written on top of some kind of toolkit, which limits the devs flexibility with what they can do. Now that toolkit has recieved an upgrade that allows buffs on a player to carry over to his "pseudo-pets". The decision to inplement some powers as pseudo-pets in the first place is probably just to get around limitations in that toolkit.
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Why not use surpression here:
Brawl: 50% chance surpressing 1 toggle for 10s
Assassin Strike: 100% chance 1 toggle for 15s, 75% chance 1 toggle for 15s, 50% chance 1 toggle for 15s
Just some example numbers, they would have to be tweaked of course.
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"tweaked" is rather moderate considering the severity of your example... in many ways this is actually worse than the current situation.
You would be enhancing the chance for toggle effect in both brawl and AS significantly, while at the same time increasing the time needed to get ones shields back up for any tank or scrapper.
Most defensive toggles only take around 3 seconds to recharge and have an activation time of roughly 1 to 2 seconds... as such what can be accomplished in around 5 seconds now would take 3 times as long, coupled with the enhanced odds you suggest just makes toggle dropping more potent as opposed to a reduction in capacity.
With the rate at which opponents can brawl and with a 50% chance with each strike for an associated 10 second suppression, you can pretty much be assured that no melee AT will ever have their toggles helping them.
Needless to say I hope that the actual solution is VERY different than what you are proposing (i.e. if they are going with a suppression system that it be sophisticated enough to take into account how long a particular power takes to reactivate under the current system and not just select arbitrary and universal times)
Well, I, for one, am certainly glad to see Blasters get their come-uppance in PvP. After all, we all know they're running around, one-shotting everyone with Brawl and Sprint.
I bet with maximum Defiance and Build-Up and Aim, they could one-shot a tank!
This is a nerf, folks.
It disheartens me to see those of you who play primarily meleers actually celebrating that another AT is getting nerfed.
There's an AT that definitely needs... let's call it "balancing"... in PvP, and it ain't Blasters.
This just makes it that much harder for Blasters to deal with that AT in PvP.
Kudos to you, Jack. Seriously. You've helped clarify some things for me today.
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Funny, if your talking about stalkers then your sorely mistaken. So what now you and stalkers can one hit wonder every one. Whats the big deal, you have a power set that totally negates stalkers until they start hide stacking. Wonder just how big that plus to perception on drones is. Because I havnt missed a stalker creeping on me yet. Of course I aucttly have to shoot them imagine that a blaster shooting things. 9 times out of ten i see them when there moving behind me and give them a swift Charge shot to the head. I really can't say i care tomuch about this -shrugs- If you want to look at broke pvp at's look at every one but blaster and stalkers.
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We just received tech that will allow players to pass buffs onto certain powers (such as Blizzard).
[/ QUOTE ] Um...what does this mean exactly?
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Blizzard apparently doesn't benefit from +dmg buffs applied to the user - so, Build Up, Aim, Fortitude, Fulcrum Shift, etc, don't do anything for it.
I could be mistaken, though.
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Please, please, please say that also means Controller APP Ice Storm will now get containment. Pretty please with icing on top... and a cherry... and a Pie.
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Why not use surpression here:
Brawl: 50% chance surpressing 1 toggle for 10s
Assassin Strike: 100% chance 1 toggle for 15s, 75% chance 1 toggle for 15s, 50% chance 1 toggle for 15s
Just some example numbers, they would have to be tweaked of course.
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"tweaked" is rather moderate considering the severity of your example... in many ways this is actually worse than the current situation.
You would be enhancing the chance for toggle effect in both brawl and AS significantly, while at the same time increasing the time needed to get ones shields back up for any tank or scrapper.
Most defensive toggles only take around 3 seconds to recharge and have an activation time of roughly 1 to 2 seconds... as such what can be accomplished in around 5 seconds now would take 3 times as long, coupled with the enhanced odds you suggest just makes toggle dropping more potent as opposed to a reduction in capacity.
With the rate at which opponents can brawl and with a 50% chance with each strike for an associated 10 second suppression, you can pretty much be assured that no melee AT will ever have their toggles helping them.
Needless to say I hope that the actual solution is VERY different than what you are proposing (i.e. if they are going with a suppression system that it be sophisticated enough to take into account how long a particular power takes to reactivate under the current system and not just select arbitrary and universal times)
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Sorry, just wrote the numbers down from the top of my head without thinking about them at all. Thats why I said tweaked. I just wanted to show the principle how it could work. So just ignore the numbers I wrote completly at this point, they were just to illustrate the mechanics, nothing more.
If they would actually go with a system similar to that, they obviously had to take in account, how long it in general takes for a standard toggle to bring up and use that as a basis for how long surpressions lasts.
So the ATs that have a defensive capacity get a boost while the ATs that don't have a defensive capacity and can only handle the ATs with those that do by dropping their toggles get screwed. Uhm... yay.
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We're tweaking with toggle dropping...mostly decreasing its overall effect
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Not every single Blaster that PvP's has melee attacks or has access to Buildup....
Devices Blasters get their toggle droppers at levels 28 and 35 in Tripmine and Timebomb (whereas all the other Blaster Secondaries get their toggle droppers at 4 and 10) ... Both of which often have to be used with TP Foe and require set up time as well...
I wonder if that's been considered...
@Deadboy
Hi Statesman,
Can you please, please, please give us some thoughts about force fields? If FF's ability to drop toggles is neutered, FF's role in PvP becomes vastly diminished since a single pool power, acrobatics, invalidates a third of the set. Additionally, since knockback is supressable, if I do knock someone back, supression kicks in giving him immunity to knockback. Knockback is, at very best, an annoyance in PvP. Toggle dropping is THE raison d'etre of a bubbler in PvP.
Hell, I can't even use repulsion bomb anymore to reliably mezz opposing toons.
You don't talk about FF as a def-based set, so it's unlcear whether def scaling will affect FF. Repulsion bomb still isn't particularly useful to solo bubblers despite its recent change. So ... whither force fields?
If the buff thing does not include the ability to give your pets inspirations as the master minds do, they at least we should be able to give temp power pets inspys because in CoV u can.
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Who are you, and what have you done to the States that was on a nerfing spree?
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We're not complaining, mind you...we're just curious.
Oh...and whatever you've done with him...please take good care of him. 
Thank you.
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If you tone down toggle dropping to make it to an extreme like 1 toggle 50%, and please buff electrics end drain and their primaries damage. And replace Voltiac Sentinal with something good!
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And I want a pony and a train set...oh, and if you're not too busy, walk on water and turn stone to bread.
Much appreciated.
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We're tweaking with toggle dropping...mostly decreasing its overall effect.
We just received tech that will allow players to pass buffs
onto certain powers (such as Blizzard).
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Two things I want to know:
<ul type="square">[*] Where's the REAL Statesman?!?![*] Who the heck are you?!?![/list]
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Quoted for truth
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This is a nerf, folks.
It disheartens me to see those of you who play primarily meleers actually celebrating that another AT is getting nerfed.
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Welcome to PvP.
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We're tweaking with toggle dropping...mostly decreasing its overall effect.
We just received tech that will allow players to pass buffs onto certain powers (such as Blizzard).
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Would this also be true with a power like Hot Feet?
(Or is that already buffable? sorry for asking...new to the fire/* controller set....and loving Hot Feet. )
Hot Feet is already buffable. It's not a summon...
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Hot Feet is already buffable. It's not a summon...
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Awesome...thanks for answering.
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I would like to know more details about the "tweaking" to toggle dropping, since Energy actually has respectable damage and a side effect (disorient), and its blast set actually has a lot of, you know, blasts, Electric will not fare as well if this change is too drastic.
If toggle dropping is nerfed to the point where I cant even melee, since I cant blast well, and my "secondary effect" is essentially worthless, then what am I going to do in PvP besides get mercilessly slaughtered?
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You mean like Tanks are now when a blaster comes by and knocks off our toggles, hits our HEAVILY NERFED resistance for 30% unresisted damage and disoirents us to knock off the rest of the toggles and even if we get a counter-attack in, it does paultry damage because, hey, we're tanks. THAT kind of slaughtered in PvP? Yeah, cry me a river.
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Not every single Blaster that PvP's has melee attacks or has access to Buildup....
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Not every Blaster PvPs. I don't, but I find this change irritatingly par for the course. I can only wonder what this game would be like if the lead designer wasn't nigh-obsessed with Scrappers and Tankers (and Brutes and Stalkers).
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Try to make toggle-dropping more power-based and less random.
I'd like to see Tanks get one high magnitude attack that can stun the other melee-ers through status protection. Sort of an Assassin Strike, but high magnitude instead of high damage. It would really bump up their threat level in PvP, without much effect on PvE.
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A very interesting suggestion. I myself have been considering more and more that if the numbers with defense and resistance are considered to be about where they should be and toggle dropping is being brought into line, perhaps Tankers should be granted some offensive punch in a form which would still play and feel differently than the attacks of the Scrapper. I thought about a sort of slow, impressive Tanker "super attack" that would hit one target extremely hard every now and then, but generate massive aggro--a kind of Aggro Alpha, if you will. This would also benefit the Tanker faintly though noticeably in solo and PvP battles, but in a very tangible and fun way!
What do you think?