Few other QoL things...
By
8_Ball,
Posted on: 2006-01-11 18:07 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
What.....Power Boost will double the duration of....say....Blizzard?
*foams at the mouth*
Could Ice/Eng possibly become even more of a FotM?
Save the drama for yo' mama.
[ QUOTE ]
Will it buff the damage of blizzard temporarily or will you have to do all the +dmg and +acc before you throw something like Blizzard?
[/ QUOTE ]
Do you think the server we all know and love could handle doing buff-checks every tenth of a second on every player for the duration that a rain-power or pseudo-pet is in play?
I'm not even sure it would make sense in the context of some of those powers:
You use all your endurance to summon a mighty Blizzard into existence for a time, and you're totally exhausted....But then you're very angry, so it becomes more deadly for a bit?
I'd guess it's a one-time check performed as the power is used.
Hmm. A friend, now mostly departed (Mekhazzio) and I tested this once with AutoTurret and Siphon Power.
I dropped AT (on my ar/dev) with no damage enhancements in it, to get base damage, then he fired off Siphon Power - my damage went up, AT did not.
Waited until AT refreshed.
Siphon Power first, then dropped AT - AT's damage went up.
I assume, then, if it ends up working the same way, that damage buffs on the player will affect the summoned entity (blizzard, burn, caltrops) if the damage boost is in effect when it is summoned.
(Ponders what that will do to controller pets, if anything. They can already receive Fulcrum Shift buffs and lose them in the course of regular play. Hopefully, then, this change will mean - nothing at all to controller/dominator/MM pets as far as giving them damage buffs).
Instead, caltrops, blizzard or even something like the Acid Mortar might be affected by this change.
Obviously, I'm not a dev, but if it works the same way AT was buffed when we tested... boost damage first then drop the power. Opinion only until a redname comments, of course.
Currently: 50s (5), 40s (3), 30s (5)
Red and blue side, mostly Infinity, Virtue, and Freedom.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We just received tech that will allow players to pass buffs onto certain powers (such as Blizzard).
[/ QUOTE ] Um...what does this mean exactly?
[/ QUOTE ]
* doffs developer hat
"We just received tech" translation "The coders finally figured out a way and implemented said thing without having the server come to a grind halt, without having to spent a bazillion hours recoding the entire gaming engine and without having to sacrafice too many body parts...however they still have to wave a rubber chicken over said game servers"
And said thing is buffing things like the Blizzard "Nuke" and Tanker Burn patches with Build Up, Aim, et al.
Since Fulcrum Shift isn't thought of as a PbAoE Pet/Drop... It needs the 10-target vs 3 Target "upfront-Buffing" for it they did did for Energy Absorbtion. Fulcrum shift starts out as a ranged AoE and should have 16 Targets just like every other Ranged AoE.
[ QUOTE ]
This creates some questions....
If the caster has Fort on him when he casts Burn, the damage of burn is increased, yes?
What if Burn is cast then Fortitude is applied to the caster after? Does this increase Burn damage of the already existing Burn patch?
Fulcrum Shift... If the caster of Caltrops, Blizzard or other "temporary pets" powers has FS buffs on him when he casts the Caltrops (and others), do the Caltrops do more damage?
What if the FS is done AFTER the caltrops are already out?
What if the caltrops are already out AND they are in the AoE of the FS when FS is cast?
The basic question here is... does the buff have to be already on the caster of the "temporary pet" power for that "pet" to be buffed?
[/ QUOTE ]
I would imagine that when the 'pet' is created, and it copies over the buffs, that they will be limitless as long as the pet lasts, and no new buffs can be applied.
Why?
Because if not they'll probably have to deal with adding buffs and debuffs dynamically. It would be muuch easier if they just took the buffs from the creation time. And if they don't, then they'll have to deal with people wanting to buff their Blizzards directly.
Suppose I was a Fire Blast / Thermal corrupter. Thermal has a nice buff in Forge. I want to cast my 'Rain of Fire' and then I want to use Forge to increase it's damage. I can't cast it on my 'pet' Fire Rain... and I can't cast it on myself. but someone else can cast it on me, and effect my pet? It just seems odd.
So my guess is, no buffing 'temp pets' after they're created. But this is just a guess.
[ QUOTE ]
What.....Power Boost will double the duration of....say....Blizzard?
*foams at the mouth*
Could Ice/Eng possibly become even more of a FotM?
[/ QUOTE ]
No.
Power boost will significantly increase the duration of the slow effect from blizzard. NOT the duration (and hence damage) of blizzard itself.
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think the server we all know and love could handle doing buff-checks every tenth of a second on every player for the duration that a rain-power or pseudo-pet is in play?
[/ QUOTE ]
It already does ACC, chance of Knockdown, and -SPD anti-stacking code. And damage on DoTs are assigned only one time when the DoT is created, not every tick. If we could buff a "drop" after it was made, then we'd already have been able to do it with Burn and Blizzard just by hitting fulcrum after it was created. But these Drops appear to be flagged un-buffable just like Phantom Armies
*wonders if this would affect Lightning Storm and Voltaic Sentinel too*...
... which would make life interesting for teaming with fulcrum shift kinetics if I have storm, /storm, or /elec.
Heh heh heh - well, that would help blaster /elec, since as far as I know, VS there is *still* the same BI as defender VS.
At least, for sets that get Buildup and Aim...
BU + Aim + Voltaic Sentinel = 60 seconds of buffed fuzzy ball of attacking goodness, and no more would defender and blaster VS be the same (if they still are).
... of course, with Fulcrum Shift along, that would also be VERY interesting...
Currently: 50s (5), 40s (3), 30s (5)
Red and blue side, mostly Infinity, Virtue, and Freedom.
[ QUOTE ]
*foams at the mouth*
1 more quickie question if possible: What if you drop say..Blizzard and then Fulcrum Shift (I know about the no end, I meant popping a blue and then using FS). Will it buff the damage of blizzard temporarily or will you have to do all the +dmg and +acc before you throw something like Blizzard?
[/ QUOTE ]
From what it sounds like, it *inheirets* all buffs (that are applicable) from you when it spawns. So you don't buff them after you cast it, but before you cast it (like any other attacks.)
I wouldn't mind this if the short lived pets were given this "bonus" over perma pets.
Still here, even after all this time!
[ QUOTE ]
increase your Burn damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
1 question... brute + burn + fury + build up/soul drain + red insps???? That will work????
what constitutes a 'pet'?
FS is what confuses me. Burn, Ice Patch, and others have a dinstict placement, but FS is a buff on other players.
Are buffs pets then? A little IM discussion with my friend imagines our usually 4 man Rad/Rad team dropping Accelerate Metabolism one after the other to get 15 AM's going!
First player drops - 1 total buff
2nd player (w/ 1 AM buff on) drops - 3 total buffs
3rd player (w/ 3 AM buffs) drops - 7 total buffs
4th player (w/ 7 AM buffs) drops - 15 AMS! OMG!
that would be sweet, although I'm sure I'm wrong
[ QUOTE ]
It's pretty much what other posters already suggested. Many effects in the game are actually temporary pets (Blizzard, Fulcrum Shift, Caltrops, Burn, Ice Patch, etc). Since they are distinct entities, they are spawned fresh and buffless. This change allows the designers specify that a pet should get copies of buffs on the creator (Damage and To-Hit inspirations, Power Boost, Build Up/Aim, Accelerate Metabolism, Fulcrum Shift, etc). So yes, you could potentially Power Boost an Ice Storm, and having Fortitude could increase your Burn damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
Consequently, doesn't this make Mastermind's ability to give their henchmen inspirations a bit pointless? Since, they could just pop the inspiration and give the benefit to all their minions?
Well, except for single instance inspirations (Respite, CAD, Break Free sorta).
Let's Dance!
Hmm... no, I don't think it would work that way.
Think of MM pets and controller pets the same way - you can buff them individually, so there is no need to do this fix for them.
Blizzard, Burn, caltrops - in today's world, you can't buff their damage except through enhancements.
Well, you *can* "buff" their damage (in a way)... by using a -res power, like Tar Patch or Enervating Field. But not directly, because -res affects the mob, not the placeable.
Autoturret always was a strange one, becuase you could buff it individually, with, say, Speed Boost or Fortitude, but as I found out in testing, it received damage buffs from Siphon Power (or Fulcrum Shift) only when the player had them on their toon before dropping it.
Since controller and MM pets can get, say, Fulcrum buffs on their own - I don't think they're the kind of "pet" that is included in this fix. And that would be rather brokenly overpowered, anyway.
Giving Blizzard max damage through Fulcrum Shift or Defiance buffs (yay! now it's not just for Inferno/Nova/Full Auto!) is fine, because Blizzard is temporary.
MM pets are 'permanent' until killed or dismissed.
Currently: 50s (5), 40s (3), 30s (5)
Red and blue side, mostly Infinity, Virtue, and Freedom.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We just received tech that will allow players to pass buffs onto certain powers (such as Blizzard).
[/ QUOTE ] Um...what does this mean exactly?
[/ QUOTE ]
I second this question!
EDIT: I trust the posters who have already answered this but I wouldn't mind an amen from a dev.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's pretty much what other posters already suggested. Many effects in the game are actually temporary pets (Blizzard, Fulcrum Shift, Caltrops, Burn, Ice Patch, etc). Since they are distinct entities, they are spawned fresh and buffless. This change allows the designers specify that a pet should get copies of buffs on the creator (Damage and To-Hit inspirations, Power Boost, Build Up/Aim, Accelerate Metabolism, Fulcrum Shift, etc). So yes, you could potentially Power Boost an Ice Storm, and having Fortitude could increase your Burn damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
1) you included Fulcrum Shift as a temporary pet... mistake, right? Sorry if this was asked before.
2)How will this change Phantom Army? Can they now be buffed? And can they now be debuffed if this is the case? Because the worst case scenario I'm seeing is that you'll be giving Illusion controllers actual pets that can be buffed, but NOT debuffed, making them insanely overpowered in comparison to other controller sets.
Well... in a sense, maybe, if what I understand from previous redname statements is correct.
Fulcrum Shift's initial target spawns an AOE debuff effect, which in turn causes every target mob to spawn an AOE 'buff effect'. The debuff AOE size is classified as Large, IIRC, and each AOE buff is 'Medium'. So you can be standing on the front edge of a mob group, and not receive all the buffs, if the group is spread out and you're not overlapping with all of the 'buff' effects.
Transference and Transfusion work this way, too - they create a temporary 'pet' as the way to make the pretty green or blue ring.
However, having Fulcrum Shift 'buff it's own damage' would be, well, silly - so it's probably more in a descriptive sense that it's a "pet" rather than for purposes of getting this change. But I'm speculating.
By the way - since Transfusion and Transference are "temporary pets" ... which has led to the "death bug" where you get a nice green or blue ring but no heal/endurance... is there any way that could be prevented?
Personally, I'd be happy if it was either classified as a miss and no SFX played... OR a hit and you got the ring and the effect.
Not really the same thing, but if you're fixing one long-standing annoyance (no self-buff affects on Ice Storm, Blizzard, Rain of Fire, etc)...
Currently: 50s (5), 40s (3), 30s (5)
Red and blue side, mostly Infinity, Virtue, and Freedom.
[ QUOTE ]
What.....Power Boost will double the duration of....say....Blizzard?
[/ QUOTE ]
Power Boost increases the strength of your secondary effects. For things like holds that means it increases the duration. It won't increase the duration of your pets, but in this example it could increase the run speed debuff of your Blizzard.
[ QUOTE ]
Blizzard and then Fulcrum Shift
[/ QUOTE ]
The buff copy is performed when the pet is created. New buffs you get while the pet is already out and about are not copied.
[ QUOTE ]
what that will do to controller pets, if anything
[/ QUOTE ]
Probably nothing, since they're already normally buffable, but in the end it's up to the designers to specify which "pets" get this bonus and which don't.
[ QUOTE ]
Fulcrum Shift
[/ QUOTE ]
Fulcrum Shift is a little nutty, I probably shouldn't have used it as an example. The buffs and debuffs you end up with are just that, but they are applied to you and your targets by invisible temporary pets. Now that I look at it, the strength of your Fulcrum Shift won't be affected by this change (so I definitely shouldn't have used it as an example), but the buff (or debuff) you get from Fulcrum Shift can now be copied to things like Blizzard, Lightning Storm, Rain of Fire, and so on. Sorry for the confusion.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's pretty much what other posters already suggested. Many effects in the game are actually temporary pets (Blizzard, Fulcrum Shift, Caltrops, Burn, Ice Patch, etc). Since they are distinct entities, they are spawned fresh and buffless. This change allows the designers specify that a pet should get copies of buffs on the creator (Damage and To-Hit inspirations, Power Boost, Build Up/Aim, Accelerate Metabolism, Fulcrum Shift, etc). So yes, you could potentially Power Boost an Ice Storm, and having Fortitude could increase your Burn damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
Consequently, doesn't this make Mastermind's ability to give their henchmen inspirations a bit pointless? Since, they could just pop the inspiration and give the benefit to all their minions?
Well, except for single instance inspirations (Respite, CAD, Break Free sorta).
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think that the change will effect "true" pets/henchmen. Having a MM pop a bunch of Enrages which would buff all of their henchmen, would be insanely overpowering. Even I would want me nerf'ed in that case.
[ QUOTE ]
This creates some questions....
If the caster has Fort on him when he casts Burn, the damage of burn is increased, yes?
[/ QUOTE ]
WierdBeard says it allows the devs (within their power table file or whatever they use) to say IF a pet power gets copies of the buffs that are on the owner of the pet. Now does this also mean that debuffs on the caster gets copied to the pet?
So IF they say burn is buffable when the pet is created all the buffs (and debuffs?) are copied to the pet.
[ QUOTE ]
What if Burn is cast then Fortitude is applied to the caster after? Does this increase Burn damage of the already existing Burn patch?
[/ QUOTE ]
From the way WierdBeard said it, when the pet is created buffs are copied to the pet. I would highly doubt any buffs done after the pet are created are applied to the pet. This would require more code than a simple copy buffs from object A to object B. You would have to monitor object A for any changes and then apply all changes to object B. 1 operation version n, where high values of n could slow the server down when done over the population of users.
[ QUOTE ]
Fulcrum Shift... If the caster of Caltrops, Blizzard or other "temporary pets" powers has FS buffs on him when he casts the Caltrops (and others), do the Caltrops do more damage?
[/ QUOTE ]
Same question as the burn one. If a dev decides caltrops is a buffable power it will work like all other buffable powers. (Doing anything else would require more code).
[ QUOTE ]
What if the FS is done AFTER the caltrops are already out?
[/ QUOTE ]
Same as the burn/fort question. The way it was stated from Wierdbeard I would say no effect.
[ QUOTE ]
What if the caltrops are already out AND they are in the AoE of the FS when FS is cast?
[/ QUOTE ]
Currently the pet powers are not buffable from outside sources, and I doubt that changed. My guess would be the only thing that had to change was the creation of the pet powers has an extra call to copy buffs from the caster.
[ QUOTE ]
The basic question here is... does the buff have to be already on the caster of the "temporary pet" power for that "pet" to be buffed?
[/ QUOTE ]
All my answers are guesses based on how projects, and code are normally done in complex systems that are perfomance hungry. I would be very shocked if they did anything more than the copy buffs at construction from object A to B.
Bots/Traps Guide for I19.5
RO Network
I'm just curious, but if my Ice/NRG blaster were to use Power Boost before using Blizzard, would power boost turn Blizzards Knockdown into a Knockback?
If so, I imagine this could be a problem for several powers, like Ice Contrrol - Ice Slick when combuined with Power Boost from the Primal Forces Mastery pool.
As i understand it all of those powers that made AoE Heals/buffs around you/the target create a temp pet.
for example the Dark heal. It lowers Dmg and Acc(i think) and then creates a oneshot heal aura around you. In code terms it debuffs them, then summons an invisible pet that shoots a heal out before dissapearing.
thats(as far as i know) how the Kinetic heal,power buff, ubber power buff, and the Dark Heal power work.
[ QUOTE ]
having Fortitude could increase your Burn damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm... its a shame that enemies now run out of burn, can suddenly imagine fire/super strenght tankers with perma rage....
[ QUOTE ]
Many effects in the game are actually temporary pets (Blizzard, Fulcrum Shift, Caltrops, Burn, Ice Patch, etc).
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, this explains why Transfusion won't heal around just-dead mobs. The power fails because the target is no longer applicable and the pet does not spawn. Speaking of QoL things, will the Transfusion bug ever be fixed?
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
Er, actually - since the "death bug" from Transfusion doesn't happen with Twilight Grasp - (i.e. even if the mob is dead when the debuff hits them, it is classified as a 'hit' and you get a heal off)...
... I think Twilight Grasp (if it hits the mob in the first place with the debuff portion), just fires off a "standard" PBAOE heal in the same way that Radiant Aura is a PBAOE.
I don't think Radiant Aura, Healing Aura, or TG are 'pets' of this nature, but Transfusion and Transference definitely are.
Ergo why Powerboost or Vanguard would pump the effect of HA, RA, or TG - but not Trans*.
Currently: 50s (5), 40s (3), 30s (5)
Red and blue side, mostly Infinity, Virtue, and Freedom.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We just received tech that will allow players to pass buffs onto certain powers (such as Blizzard).
[/ QUOTE ] Um...what does this mean exactly?
[/ QUOTE ]
I second this question!
EDIT: I trust the posters who have already answered this but I wouldn't mind an amen from a dev.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's pretty much what other posters already suggested. Many effects in the game are actually temporary pets (Blizzard, Fulcrum Shift, Caltrops, Burn, Ice Patch, etc). Since they are distinct entities, they are spawned fresh and buffless. This change allows the designers specify that a pet should get copies of buffs on the creator (Damage and To-Hit inspirations, Power Boost, Build Up/Aim, Accelerate Metabolism, Fulcrum Shift, etc). So yes, you could potentially Power Boost an Ice Storm, and having Fortitude could increase your Burn damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
*foams at the mouth*
1 more quickie question if possible: What if you drop say..Blizzard and then Fulcrum Shift (I know about the no end, I meant popping a blue and then using FS). Will it buff the damage of blizzard temporarily or will you have to do all the +dmg and +acc before you throw something like Blizzard?
This space is intentionally left blank.