LaEstrella

Name: Gods of Virtue

Currently Recruiting: Referral Only

RP Level: Non-RP

Theme/Concept: We have no theme per se, however, many of our characters are designed around min/maxing for optimal team performance and we frequently run themed/planned super teams.


Activity: We are a medium sized SG with about 20 players, but we are very active and frequently run themed teams built on min/maxing and optimum performance in zone PVP. All of our members are veteran players with at least a year of COH/COV experience. Many of us are dedicated to COH/COV with 2 accounts.

Requirements for Membership: You must have earned the trust of our other members, as membership is approved by concensus.

Leadership: La Estrella, Techisattva, Eliot, Tenojo

In-Game Contact(s): @La Estrella / @La Estrella II, @Techisattva, @Tinojo / @Tenojo, @Majestrix

Out-of-Game Contact(s): LaEstrella / permarez@gmail.com

URL: Gods of Virtue @ Guild Portal (somewhat inactive as we don't really venture onto forums)

Coalition(s): We are currently coalitioned with both the Paragonian Knights and the Legion of Freedom.

Other Details: We currently have a fully functional base (on both sides) and a Ventrilo server. We have very low member turnover, but at the same time very small increases in membership as we are very selective. Our goal is to have fun in everything we do without turning the game into a chore, and the fact that we have been active for so long while other Supergroups have fallen to the wayside is, I believe, a testament to the fact that we are successful.

The PVP in this game would be phenomenal if you would bother to fix it.

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So, as you all know, City of Heroes was developed as a PvE game. As such, PvE changes affect everyone that plays CoH, unlike PvP which only comes to affect those who chose to engage in it. Long and the short of it, while there are some small PvP thingies getting some attention (like _Castle_ posting about Brute Fury in PvP a few days ago) there are not any big PvP issues on the nearer term feature lists.

However, we still really appreciate the great feedback (and when you guys aren't hazing each other ). Hopefully you can understand the reason and rational behind that.

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I am cherry picking your post but I wanted to emphasize this portion of it, because I think its this mentality that upsets a great deal of people who enjoy the PVP in this game.

PVP is as important a function of this game as any PVE content, whether it be bases, costumes, missions, etc. To say that it was developed purely as a PVE game is misleading because the devs have talked about bringing PVP to this game from day 1.

I feel like this statement is basically saying that the developers do not value PVP as much as they do the other PVE content, and the recent releases in content seem to agree with this opinion.

I have been a CoH member since about 2 hours after the game went live. I've played through hours and hours of PVE content and to be honest after playing through it so long it gets very repetitive, and not very fun. The one function of this game that has kept me around as long as I have is PVP because its always changing and there are always new things to try.

The only reason I really PVE anymore is to level up characters to PVP with, so to hear that the developers dont value PVP as much as PVE is very distressing. I know that is not what you said in your post, but that is the feeling I got from it.

In the long run, content like PVP (different and always changing) is going to keep players longer than things like Shoulder Capes and Greek Chest Emblems, and I really think it would be a mistake if you did not make it a priority to develop and expand the PVP game in CoX. It can be fun and addicting, but without any type of support or acknowledgement it will languish and die (as it already appears to be on a organized group level).

Please rethink this position.

They would reverse ED before they gave Blasters MoG.

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"Statesman: I would’ve thought that bases would have gotten more attention, to be honest."

Even if bases where free and everything thing in it , they would still be boring. Running from one side of the base to the other isn't going to make people stop playing WOW and other MMo's.

Combo's
Loot
Skills
Crafting

This would make COH/COV fun for me and would get players attention IMO.

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it never ceases to amaze me that WoW type fantasy gamers STILL come in here asking to have all those garbage things from their hack n slash games brought in here. The *LACK* of loot, crafting, and skills is what makes CoH such a breath of fresh air compared to that tired old Diablo formula. Please go to WoW if you like that stuff, or break your keyboard, or forget your forum password.

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Add me to the list of players who do not wish to see loot in this game.

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I am curious as to why people feel that including more features, such as "loot" and crafting, would somehow detract from the experience that they already are getting.

If these things could be included to where they do not affect the way that you currently play, why would you be so up in arms about it being included for the people who would like those features?

My Elec/Elec brute is currently stuck at level 33 because the melee set just isnt fun to play. Electric Melee just does too little damage for me to enjoy it. The attack chain feels clunky and slow. There is very little Elec Melee can do that another set can't do better.


It saddens me, because I had such hope for the set. My main is an Elec/Elec blaster, and I've been looking forward to Elec being included on the Villain side since CoV Beta.

The developers seem to think that endurance drain is this be all-end all type of secondary effect, and they have continuously demonstrated that by leaving electric (blast and melee) sub-par in damage compared to the other sets. What they apparently do not realize is that killing something quickly is much more efficient than standing around all day beating on it so that its endurance is drained.

In any event, I've resigned myself to having a sub-par brute, as apparently no devs pay attention to anything said on this board, otherwise this set wouldnt have went live the way that it did.

Devs:

There arent words to express the disappointment and anger I feel as a result of this change. In your infinite wisdom, you have placed NPCs EVERYWHERE in PVP zones, and now allowed debt to occur because of these NPCs even if they dont get the killing blow, thereby making it that much easier to get debt with this change and discouraging anyone who isnt level 50 from PvP.

I have several non-50 toons that I take into PVP zones, because PvP is sometimes a nice break from the PVE grind. I am disinclined to take them into PvP zones now because of the debt I incur. Many times NPC attacks are inevitable. An example today: My 39 corruptor was leaping through the zone, took damage from a Sky Skiff as I leapt by. I was then pounced upon by a hero group and quickly killed, and as a result I incurred debt. I wasnt trying to exploit the system or somehow avoid risk=reward, I was just leaping by, was shot by an NPC, and then got debt when I was jumped by some heroes. Even a "proportional" about of debt at 39 or 40+ can be substantial, considering that you're out in a zone and debt is increased. I dont want to risk slowing down the leveling speed of all my toons just for PVP. PvP has no reward but the enjoyment of it, itself. So now my risk definitely does not equal my reward. I dont get XP for killing Players, I shouldnt get debt from it either.

Was this change *really* necessary? Does this improve the fun of this game in any way? Were people truly exploiting this "loophole"? And to top it off, you didnt even include it in the patch notes.

I swear, I dont know what you guys are thinking anymore. With many of the changes you're making, CoH/CoV is taking a decidingly unfun and frustrating turn.

I've been here since CoH launched, and I've been through a lot of changes. I can understand the need for some changes for balance reasons, but seriously, you guys are making so many negative changes that the fun factor that this game offers is starting to go away.

If nothing but frustration is replacing fun, you're doing something wrong.

Congrats, LoF, on your 1 year anniversary! May you have many more to come!

This is the happiest news I have had out of the devs since Electric Melee/Armor was confirmed.

Are you kidding me? Smoke Grenade from devices is only 3.5%? Wow, I knew it was worthless from actual experience using it, but damn, to see it quantified....

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<<Had the devs actually done any serious testing, and not just listened to complaining from blasters,>>

Wow do you know anything about complaining Blasters? Let me illuminate you.

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Yes, actually I do. I remember blasters insisting that scrappers spend a majority of their time at the 500% damage cap (not true), that broadsword scrappers were two-shotting +3 bosses (definitely not true), and so on. I've read blaster anti-melee whine-threads since issue 2 and the smoke grenade nerf, and I know I'm not the only poster who has seen this.

This does not mean that blasters don't have complaints about the AT itself, but for a long time those complaints were constantly framed in terms of what could be done to the melee ATs to make blasters work better.

But like Estrella, you missed my point completely. I don't think that blaster whining was the primary cause of melee defense nerfs any more than I think that melee complaints are the primary cause of reductions to toggle-dropping. At best, those complaints illuminated real issues. The devs looked at those issues, tested, and made changes based on that testing.

To claim that one set of nerfs is justified and another nerf is not based solely on your own advocacy isn't constructive.

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And I disagree that the devs actually tested the issue of toggle dropping and blaster performance in PvP because if they did, they would have seen that using toggle dropping on any blaster combo that isnt a FOTM PVP set carries just as much risk as it does reward, which if I recall correctly is what this game is supposed to be balanced around.

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Had the devs actually done any serious testing and not just listened from complaining from people, they would have seen this.

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Had the devs actually done any serious testing, and not just listened to complaining from blasters, they would have seen that the global defense reduction was a bad idea, and no one would've asked that the devs look into removing toggle droppers because melee defenses had taken two substantial hits in previous issues.

Or are the devs only incompetent when it's your ox getting gored?

Just to be clear: I'm not assigning incompetence to the devs. I'm trying to make a point.

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Ah, so Blasters were responsible for the global defense reduction. I suppose it had nothing to do with melee toons being neigh indestructible in PVE, herding, or powerleveling. I suppose you'll tell us next that we were responsible for ED, and every single nerf that Regen has had since the inception of the game.

Anything else you'd like to blame on blasters? Global warming, perhaps? High gas prices?

My point is that even with toggle dropping, things are not rosy for all blasters who arent Fire/Ice /EM, and that powersets like Elec, Archery, Assault Rifle, /Fire, /Ice, /Dev are having trouble enough competing WITH toggle dropping. So now we're going to go from having a 50/50 shot at winning to having next to nothing.

Congrats.

I have a 50 Elec/Elec and a 50 Invuln/EM tank. Just from my experience with PVP, my 50 Invuln/EM would be able to 3 shot my Elec/Elec with relative ease from melee range. My elec/elec does not have the ranged capability, even if I took ALL the powers in my primary and every single ranged attack in my epic, to take down my tank from range. Her only hope would have been to go into melee and use toggle dropping to get her mez defense down and hold her. Now that that option is gone, she will be fodder for any melee toon she fights.

If you expect Blasters to be able to fight from range, you have to give them effective attacks from range. Right now, only one, maybe two, Blaster primaries have the ability to do so and that is Fire/ and maybe Energy/, though I can say with some certainty that having fought a total ranged energy blaster in the past on both my brute and my tank, even they dont have the dmg output to be any serious threat.

Had the devs actually done any serious testing and not just listened from complaining from people, they would have seen this.

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Just use your normal attacks. You don't need to kill people in 2-3 hits.

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I do if I can be killed in 2-3 hits by a Tanker/Scrapper/Brute. And they have defenses. I don't.

Before, my fights with melee classes were 50/50, mostly due to toggle dropping. Now, I can see that number dropping to nil.

We're not all FoTM Ice or Fire/Energy blasters, you know.

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fighting brutes tended to be a very evenly matched fight before, and I think I'm in real trouble now. *sigh*

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Yeah, it was real fun fighting fotm Blasters that could detoggle multiple defenses with every other hit. You'd spend the entire fight retoggling, while not gaining any significant Fury in the process. Good riddance.

Get some range and <gasp> Blast.

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Yeah, I'll get right on that as soon as I actually get some powerful ranged attacks in my primary aside from my worthless, interruptible, blocked by going out of Line of Sight snipe and my nuke.

But I guess I can count on the oh-so-powerful Voltaic Sentinel to win my battles for me.

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No, I'm not done with these sets, this was just a quick update while I was thinking about it.

'Quick' animations -- You guys are right, in the comics, Archery is seen as very fast and accurate. Fortunately, they don't have to animate them...they just draw as many arrows flying as the story warrants (see Manticore in our comic, for an example.) In the game, having all the animations be as quick as snap shot would definitely decrease the visual appeal of the set. If any of you have ever seen a movie called "Hawk, the Slayer" you'll remember how absolutely silly the archer in that looked. A similar effect would happen in CoX if we animated all the shots that quickly.

Not putting the bow away when using other powers. Brawl is the only attack power in the game that allows you to not put your weapon away when attacking with it. Brawl also took more animation time by several multiples than any other power in the game. Doing something similar with every power which could be used in conjunction with Archery/Trick Arrow simply isn't feasible.

Endurance costs. I did a pass on these a few weeks ago. I honestly don't remember which powers were changed at that time, but there were 2 or 3 that were the wrong cost. Trick Arrow is more problematic in this regard, and I've not looked at them yet.

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Fair enough. Thank you for the explanation.

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I7 changes:

1) Working on Oil Slick. I think I have the 'oil doesn't always light' bug fixed (hard to tell - it never failed on my box, but it was replicatable here.) I refered the 'wrong team in PvP zones' issue to programming.
2) Poison Gas Arrow -- this should work the same for all AT's now.
3) Archery: Fistful of Arrows, Rain of Arrows and Ranged Shot animations shortened.

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Castle,

Will the endurance reductions for some of the archery powers that you mentioned previously still be going through?

Also, as a "wishlist" type item, I think lowering the animation of all single-target attacks to the speed of Snap Arrow would do wonders for balancing the set. As a previous poster said, the secondary effect of Archery could be Speed and Accuracy, which from a concept point of view is what it should be anyway.

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Well, I'll throw my $0.02 in here.

$0.01:
The 25% Endurance Drain in PvP nerf. This needs to be re-evaluated in light of Enhancement Diversification.

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Testing this in the arena (with Short Circuit/Power Sink fully slotted 3 drain/3 recharge after ED), there is no possible way that End Drain in PvP can help in any meaningful way. It simply drains too little endurance to be of any effective use, and though the -recovery portion of Short Circuit is promising, because I have no defense or resistance, the remaining 90% endurance (possibly higher) the enemy has left is more than enough to kill/mezz me, since I would have to be in melee range to execute those two powers.

Circuit Boy mentioned, Castle, that in a PM you told him that Endurance Drain was tested at full effectiveness in PvP before the development team decided it was too powerful, and it was lowered to 25% effectiveness. This was before Enhancement Diversivication. It was too low then to be effective. Now, it is even worse. At this point, I dont even consider myself to HAVE a secondary effect in PvP. I just try to kill things quickly and hope that I dont get killed. I don't slot for end drain, because it simply isnt worth it. Can this please be revisited/retested/reevaluated?

This has been stated before in numerous different posts, but Electric Blasters were told that the shortcomings of our set were worth it in light of our ability to end drain in PvP, and then even that ability was taken away from us.

Also, regarding Volatic Sentinel: Please replace it with a short range, high damage blast, or even any blast at all (I dont care if its called Lightning Bolt, Jr.). We are blasters, we dont need "pets". We live and die by how much damage we can quickly generate. Having a floating ball of worthlessness that randomly attacks things at relatively low damage, drawing all the aggro back toward the blaster is not helpful at all. Leave the pets for Defenders/Controllers.

He did eventually respond to them, Circuit Boy. He just didnt change anything (aside from fixing a few longstanding bugs), which is exactly what we're going to get here. A wishlist is just that, a wish. It doesnt mean they'll come true, as everything is probably 'working as intended'.

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Melee toggle dropping doesn't need reduced, it needs removed. No melee AT can take away your abilities without defeating you.

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Unless of course we get held or stunned in one blow, then we're relatively helpless while we stand there and get pounded, and since we dont even have "hit points" to back us up, we die.

I play a Tanker, a Brute, and a Blapper. If you seriously think that melee ATs are helpless against toggle dropping, why dont you actually try fighting back instead of just standing there waiting to die?

I would like to know more details about the "tweaking" to toggle dropping, since Energy actually has respectable damage and a side effect (disorient), and its blast set actually has a lot of, you know, blasts, Electric will not fare as well if this change is too drastic.

If toggle dropping is nerfed to the point where I cant even melee, since I cant blast well, and my "secondary effect" is essentially worthless, then what am I going to do in PvP besides get mercilessly slaughtered?