The Future of PvP 2


Abigail Frost

 

Posted

[NEW ITEMS BELLOW]
The Following post is roughly 2 1/2 months wait of PMs from two sections of a survey/QA I did with roughly 45 members of top PvP SGs.
I asked:
What they liked about PvP?
-Fast pace, big time, this appeared across the board.


[ QUOTE ]
I like how fast paced PVP can be, unlike other games the PVP in COX moves at a tremendous pace..like a first person shooter but at the same time like a RPG..its by far the best PVP in an MMORPG.

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-Centered around team play, but room for 1v1 and 2v2
-Potential


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What do I like about PVP in COH? The speed, teamwork, and pretty much everything else I can handle at least what I can think about at the moment

[/ QUOTE ]

-Amount and variety of powers, buffs, debuffs, etc... Every power has a 'flavor' to it.

What they disliked (i.e. the obvious issues that haven't ever even been commented on by a dev, and the ones that have too)
-Overall feeling that the developers don't give a rats [censored] about PvP.
-Layouts of PvP Zones, sizes, mob counts, PvE side-tasks not centered enough
[ QUOTE ]
PVP Zones - 3 out of the 4 PVP zones got completly original zone design which for the most part are very good..they should all be somewhat larger..the minimum size should have been Bloody bay as that is supposed to be a learning zone..instead Bloody bay is probably the largest of the PVP zones which makes no sense.

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-Cagers: Pretty common, not so much as the like of the speed of PvP. It's clear when I read the responses that there was frustration of being able to permanantly remove a player from combat, but that it should remain a fairly viable strategy, just not as much of a way to crush a teams damage or damage mitigation for such large chunks of time.
-Badges in PvP zones and exploitable PvE content that results in flame wars.
-Targetting Macros: Another large majority of the people said they wanted all targetting macros 100% disabled in PvP.

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2. Targetting Macro's- These are the worst and the reason I have stopped doing team PVP now. Basically they shouldn't even be coded in game and allows non-skilled PVPers to become awesome and GREAT PVPers to become gods

[/ QUOTE ]

-Balance between heroes and villains:
+Patron Power Pool's 'Fluff' Versus Ancillary Power Pools Situational/High Tier Level Powers (see: FA, TK, FoN, Hibernate, Power Build Up, Powersink, Rise of the Phoenix, Total Focus, etc)
+Brute Fury - This was the MOST common desire, to see Brute Fury fixed
+Dominators - Ineffective Inherent, this might work a bit better with the I8 buff, but it really isn't going to solve a ton.
+Hero Unresistables - Unresistable debuffs, unresistable criticals, 30% unresistable blaster damage. Now, through in the sub-par corrupter buffs and unresisted damage or debuff...what do you get? Yeah...
-Arena bugs: Been a LONG time, if you can't figure out this then you're just...omg...
-Not being able to choose arena maps (there are some really nasty maps that really just mess up both teams and ruin the fun)
-Lack of balance between powersets (see tanker/scrapper secondaries/primaries, IE: EM v.s. ...mace...)
-And back onto balance...again
A PM fron Cricket to Count V


[ QUOTE ]
From: Cricket

Hey there,

I don't know of any pvp balancing fixes coming up - I know they did a lot of this in the past, but I do recall Positron saying not too long ago that they are pretty happy with the pvp balancing overall. But remember, this isn't to say that changes won't come...changes will always happen.

You make a good point about the kiosks. I'll bring that one up...I'd also like to see that one fixed before expanding the arenas.

[/ QUOTE ]


BUT wait! Cinder Viper, how are the devs to improve PvP?!?!?!
1. Dev response to this thread letting us know we are heard.
2. Update on if any of this is down the line or if we should all go get Fury.
3. More original and unique maps for arena PvP and PvP zones, make them larger, not smaller, make the bounty system more common.
4. Hero-Villain team-ups in a high-level FFA zone
5. Reduced duration and/or increased recharge on cage powers. Removal of any accuracy bonuses given to cage powers.
6. Disable Targetting Macros.
7. Create a Patron System for CoH and add slightly different versions of APP's for villains.
8. PvP Server - Removed for now
9. Increase the rep cap from 400 to something truly massive (50,000,000 was suggested)
10. PvP Ladder for the Arena
11. Fix/balance base raids asap
12. Cross-server PvP in the arena, add a collumn with the name of the server the event was started on, players in arena events with the same name would become something like:
Cinder Viper - Triumph
13. In-depth tournament options for the arena (i.e. a bracket tournament that automatically assigns matches, you join> it gives you (or for team matches, your team) a place in the roster, there is a randomize button the match creator can click to randomize the team locations before starting)
Since the crash bugs will be fixed, the tournament will move smoothly, accurately advancing winners w/o a chance (other than d/c) to screw up matches.
14. Fix Brute Fury
15. Dominators are a complex beast, didn't get any imput on them nor can I think of a perfect fix, needs more input (PM me or reply here).
16. I can't sum this up any better, one of the BEST ideas I have heard, I think, done right it will work VERY well


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To achieve balance they must make toons different enough so that it doesnt just come down to burst damage which is how the PVP in this game works currently.

The place to start would be tanks in my opinion, take a look at the tank sets in general. All the Defensive sets work a little differently but yet all have their strengths and weaknesses and can be made viable in PVP with little or no tweaking at this point..in essence they have achieved relative balance although clearly they are very different in the way they function.

Now look at the offensive side of tanks and this is where the devs just dont get it..with tanks there is really only 1 PVP set and its EM, the massive burst damage in a less resisted type + heavy Stuns = victory. The other sets lag very far behind in some cases they are completly non existent because they suck so friggen bad when compared to energy.

The Devs path is to nerf energy melee..and it will happen at some point. Instead they should be buffing the other sets. You might ask "well how do you buff them..giving them more damage is the same as reducing everybody to brawl".

The way to buff them is to jack up the secondary effects of their melee attacks. If the secondary effects matter at all in this game beyond the ability to stun then you can achieve balance. The slows in Ice Melee should be very strong..especially when stacked so that in essence an ice melee tank is like a Boa constrictor..the more you get hit by them..the slower you get and they kill you because you cant move..cant attack..cant even defend yourself if you get hit enough by one.

While a fire tank should create Fear, confusion and either a - defense or a - resistence effect. If you have ever been caught in a fire you understand A) how damned scary it is..B) how confusing it can be with all the smoke and C) how much it hurts and for how long it stays with you after you have been burned.

By buffing fire melee and adding some confuse effects..some fear effects , some minus regen ( smoke inhalation) with a little - resistence..now fire becomes a viable PVP set because the side effects begin to matter.

Super Strength should be in fact super..it should deal damage and have severe knockback abilities, and those knockbacks should deal damage as well as be partially unresistable so that it gives the effect and feeling of Super Strength. IF somebody was strong enough to lift a bus then when they hit a 350 lb man that man is going to go flying..no matter what. However endurance would be an issue for somebody so strong. I think Super Strength needs to be super.

Every Set in the Tanker Secondary could be made viable if you added enough secondary effects to the powers..thus making them all very different but at the same time equal.

This basic concept applies to all the sets..Scrappers run into the same exact type of problems tanks do..Spines Dominates with its overall higher damage and Range..sure you might see a Broadsword or Katana here or there but since nobody stays still in PVP those sets fall to the wayside very quickly.

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17. More powers and powersets.
18. My idea for helping to balance holds against squishies was allowing acrobatics to be slotted for resistance, 3 slotted it would double the magnitude protection and protect from a single hold from a controller/dominator (w/o domination/critical holds), will help with the problems with some controllers, break frees and acro can be easily broken by many controller/dominator sets. Break frees help with holds, but SHOULDN'T be the 'everything' when it comes to not being a giant bullseye for controllers/doms when you're playing a mez resistancless character.
19. More input from me...Un-nerf hurricane, I'm not the only person to feel it's an uneeded change (not just because my main is a stormie ) it's far to easy to get past the -to hit debuff for a change that was said to be to prevent the repel from holding people in corners (which btw, I can still do ty)
20. Fix the arena
21. "
22. "
23. "
24. "
25. "
26. "
27. Allow us to choose arena maps.
28. Stop thinking PvP's a minority, PvP matches on test have a higher turnout than Triumph (and other server's) average Hamidon raid turnouts...The people comming ARE PvP'er.

That's all for now, feel free to add to it.
I'd post this in the suggestions forums, but it's not done yet.

Special Thanks to: Big Nord, Count V, Triox, Teh_Mags, Krole, and Cryokinesis for your extra help in this!

NEW:
-Boost dominator damage in normal mode (just bellow blasters?)
-Secondary effects to dominator holds
-Cage resistance powers?
-Make powers such as speed boost less detrimental to slow powers
-Fix -jumpspeed





I have more but I'm pressed for time atm, sorry


 

Posted

Few points I'd like to toss in.

Mez is too "all or nothing." If you don't have mez protection and you get held, more often than not, if you don't pop a breakfree, you lose. On the other side, having 5 stacked CMs on you makes a controller totally useless, and when you're not in an arena match, breakfree consumption isn't really much of an issue. I think the concept of mezzing in this game needs a total rework.

Some inspirations should have a cooldown time. Not all, but some.

Make stun act differently than hold as maybe you can move around but not attack (and I don't mean the slow walk you do now)

Reduce the time on holds, but increase their power. Meaning, it takes less to hold someone with mez protection, but it's not the "end all" once they are held because it'll break off sooner.


A lot of buffs/debuff need a look at too. Personally I don't think cm should stack more than one per caster, like bubbles and fortitude. This would also help stalkers a bit in higher end PvP. Forcefield buffs could use a boost, to bring it in line with fortitude (I'll never understand why fortitude gives 30% base defense, which is far more than you get out of bubbles, and slotted with powerboost it's just ridiculous)

Fix Fly. There's no reason why cj/sj should just totally outmatch it. The only thing fly is good for right now is getting away, and really, it's not even good at that, more like taunting jumpers with "You can't get to me." Hover needs to be faster, fly shouldn't slow down as much as it does from surpression, and the ridiculous about of -fly needs to be addressed. I made a fly build on one of my blasters for fun on test, and while I was able to beat some people, for the most part, I didn't stand a chance. The most recent was fighting a jousting bs/regen. It was just a sad attempt at me slowly trying to chase him around while he jousted me. All the technical hate for fly is not forgotten, even when you give it stupid perks like wings. All the fancy graphics in the world do not actually improve fly, so the devs need to stop kidding themselves. Reduce the -fly and give hover/fly some ability to move while fighting. We don't want more -jump, we want less -fly.

I agree with the slow resistance totally outmatching slows. One SB or AB totally outclasses any slow. On the other hand though, I think slows are too powerful. the -recharge builds far too quickly, and should have a reduced cap.


Fix brute fury and fix dominators. The problem with dominators is that they're balanced... but everyone else is too powerful. This just doesn't work.


And my BIGGEST issue at hand is power set balance. Why oh why do energy and electric blasts have to have animation times that are double fire and ice's animation times? Just reduce them already, give these sets a fighting chance in PvP. Energy blast also needs to have it's knockback at least sometimes cut through KB protection, because as of now, it's damage is balanced against this, and no one gets KBed in PvP unless they forget to toggle on acro. This makes it easily the weakest set to PvP with. Also, bring the 'short range heavy hitter' blasts' in line with bitter ice blast. I know ice doens't have the snipe like the other sets do, but the least that fire and energy could get would be more range, and maybe a bit more on the brawl index for those moves. As of now, they're weaker (unless blaze's DoT kicks in) and far shorter on the range scale. I know I'm not the only one who is tired of seeing ice/energy (despite the fact that mine is from issue 0) blasters, with the occasional fire/energy tossed in there. On the same note, give elec blast a heavy hitter and give /ice and /fire some love. /elec is already pretty good, though /energy is just beyond everything else in sheer power, mainly due to power boost.
Also, give dark melee and claws real buildup or at least give soul drain's first tic the highest one so that it does something against one target in PvP. They shouldn't have to pop a ridiculous amount of enrages just to do any decent damage.

Reduce cage time, or allow breakfrees to work against it. even if it's more than one, like TK for mind.

Fix earth control in PvP. the set is practically useless if the target wants it to be. I posted about this on the test board as well, and someone linked to the original thread with videos.

I don't believe that villains get access to strength of wills in Siren's. If they don't, either give it to them, or get rid of it on the heroes side.

Edit: forgot something.

Severely reduce the spawns in PvP zones. People go there to PvP, not have their fights ruined by the million arachnos running around in RV, for example. It also is extremely annoying to run any kind of AoE such as hurricane, force bubble, tk, rad debuffs, etc. Because these draw so much aggro from NPCs, especially force bubble since it's so damn big.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I'll never understand why fortitude gives 30% base defense, which is far more than you get out of bubbles, and slotted with powerboost it's just ridiculous

[/ QUOTE ] As for defender version both Fortitude and +def bubbles give +15% defense (x0.75 for controller).


IMO in order to consider balances constructively Devs have to answer our questions with the opening word "Why", which will be a good way to realize how their design has been working.


Virture

 

Posted

Overall I agree with you.
Clear mind is ok maybe some limit to it, but 1 is too few, maybe limit the number of times certain buffs from it will stack, such as perception. Adding resistance to cage in breaks frees is a good idea.
Everyone gets access to strength of wills in Siren's, which I believe is a bug in the first place since they aren't used anymore and are sub-par unless you farm them for arena matches and pop 'em for the duration of a fight, but the fact that they exsist there at all is stupid imo...
Earth control should be fixed, animation times/range should be tweaked. I wonder, if we could get a list up of powersets across all ATs and the differences, small or big in range, damage, mez, etc of each set, a full comparison to best reccomend buffs for sets to balance them up.
On dominators I think they're balanced in the perfect world of "have twice as many people to do what we can now" world but imo they should just be brought up to speed, alot easier and better for buff rather than nerf, the problem is not buffing to the point where everyone has a "nuclear bomb" same as with a nerf you don't want people to be throwing "nerf bombs"
My general train of thought is that what the devs think is balanced shouldn't be the idea to base all ATs on, it might increase challenge sometimes, but the rest of the time we'll be getting RSF-like complaints on simple things I could probably do solo right now on my corrupter from teams of 4.

I will add it into the final finished thread for this, just one more session of input collection until I send her off to market.


 

Posted

I think as it stands right now, there is alot of 'unresistables' on the opposing force when there already isn't enough resistance to begin with. Couple that with overall lower health on one side, in addition to gimmicky powers that have more requirements on it than Iron Chef: Extreme Edition, and power pools that don't really either shore up weaknesses or buffer strengths... then you have a lil bit more balance.


 

Posted

I should be able to farm gear all day and pwn you because I have better gear than you. Doesn't matter if you are better than me, I got that uber farm time son!


 

Posted

From what i have personally found out, Arena is the highest priorty on most PvP'ers and PvE'ers(<---Surprisingly). The Arena needs:

* New Maps
* An option to pick the maps
* FIX THE BUGS!!
* and possibly a built in Tourament system that the User can make not the system itslef



Res


 

Posted

I'd like to see stalkers be deleted from the AT list, it's the most cowardly thing you could ever pick. Imho the burst damage is way too high and couple that with the stealth powers they can stack they clearly have the upper hand on even the guys who run tactics.

- Stalkers do not help teamwork on the villain side! Almost all stalkers run solo and never team.


---------------------------------------------------------
"A coward dies many times before their death, the valiant taste death but once." - William Shakespeare

Learn it... OWN IT!

 

Posted

I don't really have a problem with individual stalkers. As long as you're smart enough to keep moving and don't let them lead with an AS there's no way they'll kill you. I love it when EM/Regen Stalkers attack my Def; easy rep.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Stalkers do not help teamwork on the villain side! Almost all stalkers run solo and never team.

[/ QUOTE ] In SC, bounty is diluted amongst teammates and it is more efficient to just killsteal than it is to have it diluted/spread out amongst a PuG that will not listen to orders or use any tactics. I think that is more of a failing in the Rep/Bounty system that discourages teaming.

[ QUOTE ]
Imho the burst damage is way too high

[/ QUOTE ]IMHO, Stalkers are the only villain AT that get burst damage.

...


Unless I'm missing something with MMs getting burst damage or something...

I think you have more of a problem with getting hit with burst damage than you do with assassin strike.

[ QUOTE ]
couple that with the stealth powers they can stack they clearly have the upper hand on even the guys who run tactics.

[/ QUOTE ] There are 3 powers that can be dropped on a Stalker, Hide/Invis(or stealth)/Grant Invis. The perception cap is still higher than the -perception cap. If the stalker went through the trouble of taking a power pool and bringing someone along in their team with an extra power pool spec'ed for an assist, you could at least do the same (get a buddy with tactics and you take tactics) as well as get the IR Goggles, plus there are no +hide inspirations, but there are +acc that also grant a bonus to perception, plus CM, plus running an /SR, plus running FA, plus.. well you get the idea. There 3x as many ways to get +per than there are to get -per against Stalkers. Just because you don't want to put in the effort to defend against stalkers (which is really not that hard to do), they are not overpowered.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Unless I'm missing something with MMs getting burst damage or something

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My mercenary henchmen have tons of burst damage. They have burst, and heavy burst, and.....


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to see stalkers be deleted from the AT list, it's the most cowardly thing you could ever pick. Imho the burst damage is way too high and couple that with the stealth powers they can stack they clearly have the upper hand on even the guys who run tactics.

- Stalkers do not help teamwork on the villain side! Almost all stalkers run solo and never team.

[/ QUOTE ]




HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. This is funny, because of this, this, and this.


Here you come with a stupid name like Fixer - brutalkillz_

 

Posted

Energy melee is just ridiculous period. Not that I want it nerfed, I want the rest of the sets to be bought in line with it.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to see stalkers be deleted from the AT list, it's the most cowardly thing you could ever pick. Imho the burst damage is way too high and couple that with the stealth powers they can stack they clearly have the upper hand on even the guys who run tactics.

- Stalkers do not help teamwork on the villain side! Almost all stalkers run solo and never team.

[/ QUOTE ]




HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. This is funny, because of this, this, and this.

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lol that is funny


 

Posted

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Energy melee is just ridiculous period. Not that I want it nerfed, I want the rest of the sets to be bought in line with it.

[/ QUOTE ]
yeah, I agree. I think all the stalker primaries can be fixed in the same way the OP recommended how tanker primaries can be fixed.

note:the following recommendations are for stalkers only

I'd like to see the brawl index on everything but EM slightly but noticably increased, and all the secondary effects except EM should be buffed.

Claws is special since it lacks any real secondary effects except for KD/KB from focus and shockwave(which isn't that special since there are few who don't have KB protection and pretty much everyone can get a reliable KD from Air Superiority) and an end discount. Claws IMO should have a stackable -resistance added. A -res component would nicely boosts claws' damage, set it apart from the others and give it some desirability. It'd truly turn claws into the scrappy set it's supposed to be as seen on scrappers. I don't think it'd be overpowering either given that it's all lethal damage, claws have low base damage, and to obtain the benefit you'd have to get in melee and stay in melee a big risk considering our low hp


 

Posted

Actually, one thing to take into account is there is a good synergy between Dominators and Stalkers... when a target is held/slept/stunned, the Stalker crits.. tho I don't know if it is an unresistable crit or a regular x2 damage. I think once Doms are made more appealing, teaming will be more appealing for Stalkers... Hopefully.. or just make it easier for a Stalker to killsteal.

As long as there is potentially sustainable burst damage for the Stalker, base damage wouldn't necissarily need to be boosted for them.

I think if some focus was shifted to mez resistance, this would be cleared up for Doms and Stalkers as collateral.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to see stalkers be deleted from the AT list, it's the most cowardly thing you could ever pick. Imho the burst damage is way too high and couple that with the stealth powers they can stack they clearly have the upper hand on even the guys who run tactics.

- Stalkers do not help teamwork on the villain side! Almost all stalkers run solo and never team.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah...k
Also, stalkers make great blaster subsitutes with some web nades and buffs villain-side...do all blasters not help teamwork and never team?
-That's a bit skewed when it comes to defense/offensive balances, but you know what I mean.


 

Posted

What really boggles me is that cox pvp and the systems created to support it in this game could be -outstanding-and become a major selling point.

The Arena is a "Danger room" waiting to happen. Imagine if you could design your own maps! Imagine having kiosks in your SG base! (what a cool way to spend/earn prestige! Hold tourneys in your SG dojo, other SGs have to spend prestiege to enter!) The possibilites are huge-if- they just devote some time to it. I would love to design a "dojo" for my SG to spar in!

Then I would say the Dev team needs to look at redressing some of the glaring differences between pve and pvp build performance. This is by far the toughest nut to crack but I think would have huge rewards if it could be done, or at least closing the gap even just a little. To that end...

-Fixing the "all or nothing" nature of mezzing
-Reducing Burst damage
-Slowing travel powers
-Changing powers that stop play dead (caging, phase shift etc)
-No "unresistable" anything.
-Fixing the nature of defence vs to hit buffs

Right now pvp in this game is like seeing your favorite pet hurting. You don't want to put her down because you love her but you have to seriously question her quality of life. What bugs you even more is that if you could just get her in to see the vet she could be better again!


 

Posted

I wanted to chime in to 1) show that someone reads your goodly threads 2) let you know that PvP issues are not completely forgotten 3) re-iterate that I do want to do some organized PvP stuffs (like organize a tourney with players, etc.) and lastly (ok here comes the bad stuff) 4) let you know a little about PvP from the dev side.

So, as you all know, City of Heroes was developed as a PvE game. As such, PvE changes affect everyone that plays CoH, unlike PvP which only comes to affect those who chose to engage in it. Long and the short of it, while there are some small PvP thingies getting some attention (like _Castle_ posting about Brute Fury in PvP a few days ago) there are not any big PvP issues on the nearer term feature lists.

However, we still really appreciate the great feedback (and when you guys aren't hazing each other ). Hopefully you can understand the reason and rational behind that.

On the tourney issue, I really want to set one up, but looking at the schedule I'm not sure where in the near term we can cram one in (darn holidays and some travel!). If any players are interested in helping to set one up (or setting it up and having me do a bit of promoting for it) please feel free to PM me on the forums or write me at Lighthouse@ncsoft.com


Lighthouse
Community Relations Manager


If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.

 

Posted

[NOTE: Sorry for the length of this ]
Thanks Lighthouse! I can't say I'm too happy about number 4 ( :P )...But the rest is well-recieved.

Big Nord from Lions Den would definately be interested in helping methinks (lol, I like it when I put words in people's mouths)
What might be fun with not too much organization would be Pentads (either villain or hero) and 1v1 or 2v2 matches. Some sort of bracket system or round robin.
Smaller-scale stuff will be alot more likely to also attract more casual PvP'ers who aren't in a group that can feild an optimal 3-man team let alone 8 versus 8 or larger (12-16 seems to be most common lately)

Another cool thing that might be fun with minimal work effort in checking winners and coordinating matches would be a weekly test server PvP Fight Night/Zone night like they do on Freedom (Psypunk runs these, I haven't logged onto Freedom or been to one in several months, so I don't know how/when they're being run now) but basically once every Friday a zone would be chosen and people would come out enmass to fight.
On a multiple-server level weekly this might be fun, but every other week would be great too.

Another thing I was thinking of that I thought about trying to get some people interested in a while back was an all out 32v32 Server versus Server battle. But a recent thread reminded me Freedom is the official "PvP Server" and will pretty much dominate again...

And last of all a small question: Any chance we could see another Issue 7 Recluse's Victory event where they wiped the test server and let us insta-level to 40 and get free enhancers for a day and just PvP on a large scale and play out any builds we want. That was one of the best events I've ever seen, really. A perfect merge of even the loathesome badge hunters ( ) and hardcore PvP'ers just comming out to do stuff they'd never be able to do on live.
BUT: With a few changes add a store where inspirations can be bought (even if just break frees, greens and blues)
Make the enhancements free (or if they requires too many programming changes just increase the infamy given out) some of the builds I rolled during that required loads of the priciest enhancers and ran out before I could fully slot (it was like 3 million last time?)


Thanks!
[edit]fixed my bold effect above[/edit]
[edit2]and I don't mean for all those events or tournaments to be done, just 1-2.[/edit]


 

Posted

Could we get someone to look at hero v villain balance on the organized type of scale, ie sg v vg.

Right now villains may work allright in zones when looking at datamining, but that really doesnt look at the context of the situation itself. What really happens when both sides are organized and prepared i.e. on equal ground heroes blow away villains.

I understand completley that any pvp changes have to be done with their effects on pve in mind since that is a larger portion of the game. However there are some changes that could be done to bring the gap between heroes and villains closer together without having a signifigant effect if any at all on pve.

I've actually pme'd posi on this in detail, but he never responded, and i doubt he ever actually read it.

If the situation of organized villain pvp group activity is any indication there are serious descrepancys that have cost a number of subscriptions over the course of the last year. Just about every major pvp group has abandoned villains as of this summer because of the imbalances which have not been addressed.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
So, as you all know, City of Heroes was developed as a PvE game. As such, PvE changes affect everyone that plays CoH, unlike PvP which only comes to affect those who chose to engage in it. Long and the short of it, while there are some small PvP thingies getting some attention (like _Castle_ posting about Brute Fury in PvP a few days ago) there are not any big PvP issues on the nearer term feature lists.

However, we still really appreciate the great feedback (and when you guys aren't hazing each other ). Hopefully you can understand the reason and rational behind that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am cherry picking your post but I wanted to emphasize this portion of it, because I think its this mentality that upsets a great deal of people who enjoy the PVP in this game.

PVP is as important a function of this game as any PVE content, whether it be bases, costumes, missions, etc. To say that it was developed purely as a PVE game is misleading because the devs have talked about bringing PVP to this game from day 1.

I feel like this statement is basically saying that the developers do not value PVP as much as they do the other PVE content, and the recent releases in content seem to agree with this opinion.

I have been a CoH member since about 2 hours after the game went live. I've played through hours and hours of PVE content and to be honest after playing through it so long it gets very repetitive, and not very fun. The one function of this game that has kept me around as long as I have is PVP because its always changing and there are always new things to try.

The only reason I really PVE anymore is to level up characters to PVP with, so to hear that the developers dont value PVP as much as PVE is very distressing. I know that is not what you said in your post, but that is the feeling I got from it.

In the long run, content like PVP (different and always changing) is going to keep players longer than things like Shoulder Capes and Greek Chest Emblems, and I really think it would be a mistake if you did not make it a priority to develop and expand the PVP game in CoX. It can be fun and addicting, but without any type of support or acknowledgement it will languish and die (as it already appears to be on a organized group level).

Please rethink this position.


 

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there are not any big PvP issues on the nearer term feature lists.


[/ QUOTE ]
You must have at least one issue which should be fixed ASAP - the stability of arena.

On current version of Issue 8 , arena matches crash (are forcibly finished) SO FREQUENTLY that we have really hard time to play in arena. Haven't you Devs received any PM about this, or have you already fixed it and are we going to see it in next patch ?


Virture

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
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there are not any big PvP issues on the nearer term feature lists.



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You must have at least one issue which should be fixed ASAP - the stability of arena.

On current version of Issue 8 , arena matches crash (are forcibly finished) SO FREQUENTLY that we have really hard time to play in arena. Haven't you Devs received any PM about this, or have you already fixed it and are we going to see it in next patch ?


[/ QUOTE ]

I read Lighthouses comments as.

"pvp doesn't pay the bills."

Sounds like pvp isn't going to be changing. At all. Well at least till the invention system throws it more out of balance.


 

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I wanted to chime in to 1) show that someone reads your goodly threads 2) let you know that PvP issues are not completely forgotten 3) re-iterate that I do want to do some organized PvP stuffs (like organize a tourney with players, etc.) and lastly (ok here comes the bad stuff) 4) let you know a little about PvP from the dev side.

So, as you all know, City of Heroes was developed as a PvE game. As such, PvE changes affect everyone that plays CoH, unlike PvP which only comes to affect those who chose to engage in it. Long and the short of it, while there are some small PvP thingies getting some attention (like _Castle_ posting about Brute Fury in PvP a few days ago) there are not any big PvP issues on the nearer term feature lists.

However, we still really appreciate the great feedback (and when you guys aren't hazing each other ). Hopefully you can understand the reason and rational behind that.

On the tourney issue, I really want to set one up, but looking at the schedule I'm not sure where in the near term we can cram one in (darn holidays and some travel!). If any players are interested in helping to set one up (or setting it up and having me do a bit of promoting for it) please feel free to PM me on the forums or write me at Lighthouse@ncsoft.com

[/ QUOTE ]

Lighthouse! But.. what about the problems defense sets have in PvP?! *annoys Lighthouse until a response is given*


Doom.

Yep.

This is really doom.