I feel that a lot of my suggestions, namely the animation time and heavy hitter move balance between sets would also really help the PvE game become more fun too. I mean, would blaze really be overpowered if you doubled it's range? Bitter ice still hits harder, and would still go further.
The big thing is that if you make more powers and powersets PvP friendly, more people may PvP, thus making it an even bigger part of the game.
[ QUOTE ]
The big thing is that if you make more powers and powersets PvP friendly, more people may PvP, thus making it an even bigger part of the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
I really had to QFTx500000000000
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The big thing is that if you make more powers and powersets PvP friendly, more people may PvP, thus making it an even bigger part of the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
I really had to QFTx500000000000
[/ QUOTE ]
True dat.
Here you come with a stupid name like Fixer - brutalkillz_
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The big thing is that if you make more powers and powersets PvP friendly, more people may PvP, thus making it an even bigger part of the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
I really had to QFTx500000000000
[/ QUOTE ]
True dat.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed a billion percent, but this assumes an inherent desire of the devs to make PvP a bigger part of the game. *That* would be lovely.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The big thing is that if you make more powers and powersets PvP friendly, more people may PvP, thus making it an even bigger part of the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
I really had to QFTx500000000000
[/ QUOTE ]
True dat.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed a billion percent, but this assumes an inherent desire of the devs to make PvP a bigger part of the game. *That* would be lovely.
[/ QUOTE ]
I could be wrong, but in just about any MMO, no matter how friendly the PvP is, it's still a minority, and will always be a minority. So, while I'd like to have more PvP focus, looking at the big picture the devs have it right. Maybe one day, where the number of subs is big enough that the smaller percentage of PvP'er is a big enough in number for it to become economical for the devs to spend more time on PvP. Right now though, it isn't. That's my 2 cents.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The big thing is that if you make more powers and powersets PvP friendly, more people may PvP, thus making it an even bigger part of the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
I really had to QFTx500000000000
[/ QUOTE ]
True dat.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed a billion percent, but this assumes an inherent desire of the devs to make PvP a bigger part of the game. *That* would be lovely.
[/ QUOTE ]
I could be wrong, but in just about any MMO, no matter how friendly the PvP is, it's still a minority, and will always be a minority. So, while I'd like to have more PvP focus, looking at the big picture the devs have it right. Maybe one day, where the number of subs is big enough that the smaller percentage of PvP'er is a big enough in number for it to become economical for the devs to spend more time on PvP. Right now though, it isn't. That's my 2 cents.
[/ QUOTE ]
PvP is a pretty big part of WoW. I mean, when you hit the end game it is pretty much all you have left.
[ QUOTE ]
So, as you all know, City of Heroes was developed as a PvE game. As such, PvE changes affect everyone that plays CoH, unlike PvP which only comes to affect those who chose to engage in it. Long and the short of it, while there are some small PvP thingies getting some attention (like _Castle_ posting about Brute Fury in PvP a few days ago) there are not any big PvP issues on the nearer term feature lists.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lighthouse,
This just kills me. People write thread after thread about having a silly flight animation and whine about clipping issues on some of the Vet reward costume pieces. But c'mon! there's bugs in the arena. Not just small issues like clipping, but stuff that will crash your client. Do the devs realize they are putting these buggy arena terminals in Pocket D? Do they realize they crash with frequency, they list non functional system tournaments and simple stuff like not being able to invite from the arena interface don't work?
I think most PvPers know that PvP is not a priority in this game, but at the very least, bugs should be fixed. And these bugs are serious.
FF
While I can understand the reasoning behind PvP coming second to PvE in terms of time spent, I have to agree with FF. Pleeeeeeeease fix the Arena. Especially given the greater accessibility to it in the D, it'd be shame for people to get disillusioned with PvP just because every time they tried to have a match they crashed.
Here you come with a stupid name like Fixer - brutalkillz_
*SO ANGRY*
*TURNING GREEN, WITH VEINS POPING!*
* I AM... GIANT GREEN ANGRY DUDE!*
Sigh.. Not that nobody knew this is the past. We just needed a dev response to clarify. When i read, on the the past update, that you were going to put Arena Kiosks in Pocket D, i took that as the biggest kick in the balls ive ever had with this game. Thats like putting a cat on a floaty and pushing it out to sea.... and maybe two years later sending it food.
SERIOUSLY WHAT GIVES?!! You at least DO SOMETHING
Bah Games... Go home... 
There is only one way to balance the hero vs villian balance.
Both sides must have equal access to all archetypes.
This means Heroic Master Minds and Villanous Tankers.
The Legendary Cosmological Prince Reigar 53rd Illusion Control/Storm Summoning/Primal Forces Mastery/Incarnate
It's a dark and story night. That means something bad is happening out there
[ QUOTE ]
So, as you all know, City of Heroes was developed as a PvE game. As such, PvE changes affect everyone that plays CoH, unlike PvP which only comes to affect those who chose to engage in it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Let me give you an analogy:
Buffs to the Dominator AT only affect that small section of the player base that choose to play a Dom.
But that section is small BECAUSE Doms need buffing - they're a very troubled AT. If the Devs never fixed Doms because only a few people played them, then they'd stay broken indefinitely.
Plenty of people I know avoid PvP simply BECAUSE it's not properly balanced. There are issues that need attention, plain and simple. Consider the vicious circle at work here - PvP isn't given attention, fewer people PvP, the Devs see PvP as a minority taste, so PvP isn't given attention.
Personally, I feel that if something is out of balance, then it should be fixed for its own sake, not just because a crew of hardcore PvPers would like it seen to. Even if a feature of the game doesn't affect everyone, it still deserves to be addressed. The more confidence people have that the developers care about that feature, the more they will use it. It's about morale as much as anything.
Other forums, such as the Defender boards, have managed to assemble a list of Current Issues for the Devs to look at. Maybe we need a Current Issues thread for PvP in CoX.
[ QUOTE ]
Just about every major pvp group has abandoned villains as of this summer because of the imbalances which have not been addressed.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ya let me re cap the events....: Sitting ducks hero's won against the freaks vills.....
And people stopped playing them and moved to hero's
And what an eventful summer that was...
[ QUOTE ]
So, as you all know, City of Heroes was developed as a PvE game. As such, PvE changes affect everyone that plays CoH, unlike PvP which only comes to affect those who chose to engage in it. Long and the short of it, while there are some small PvP thingies getting some attention (like _Castle_ posting about Brute Fury in PvP a few days ago) there are not any big PvP issues on the nearer term feature lists.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thx for the answer Lighthouse, Boys and Girls the Future of Pvp lies in- Fury ETA 2007, k thx bye
Well, at least he's honest.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The big thing is that if you make more powers and powersets PvP friendly, more people may PvP, thus making it an even bigger part of the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
I really had to QFTx500000000000
[/ QUOTE ]
As a PvE:er who is not *ahem* very fond of PvP, (I found this thread by following the Dev Digest 
) I'd like to say that the powersets have absolutely nothing to do with people's reluctance to PvP, but everything to do with smack talk, pwning and elitism.
The fun times I've had with PvP has been mass events (four-five full instances of Siren's Call!), as have been arranged a few times on the Euro servers, because
A) I've been able to fight people of a corresponding skill level with myself (low), as the casual PvE:er have vastly outnumbered the hardcore PvP:ers.
B) There has been no time for gloating and smack talk. Or, at least, it so drowned in the cacaphony in local/broadcast that it wasn't noticeable.
I think the best encouragement for non PvP:er to join in PvP would be:
A) A code of conduct. Yeah, I know, thats is a real pipe-dream.
B) A ranking system tied to a handicap system, as in Chess, Go or Golf - making it fun for less skilled players to meet more skilled ones. Note: That would automatically balance up the any difference between the AT:s, as the handicaps will simply shift until a balance is met! (And co-incindentally, cut down hard on the Forum whine 
) I suspect that too, would be very unpopular with the "I pwn U!" crowd...
[ QUOTE ]
As a PvE:er who is not *ahem* very fond of PvP, (I found this thread by following the Dev Digest ) I'd like to say that the powersets have absolutely nothing to do with people's reluctance to PvP, but everything to do with smack talk, pwning and elitism.
[/ QUOTE ]
With respect, that's a different issue. If people who PvE are put off trying PvP, that's one thing. But the power imbalances are putting active PvPers off PvPing, and that's what we're most concerned with here.
As for the smack talk: it goes hand in hand with PvP as a rule. It's easy enough to ignore it or just smack right back, IME.
[ QUOTE ]
IMHO, Stalkers are the only villain AT that get burst damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's mostly true. AS is extreme burst dmg, and situational to pull it off (though veteran stalkers can pull it off in hard situations). The only other villains I see with burst dmg is a EM brute, but then again, it isnt much without some fury or buff/debuffs. I havent seen many corrs that can achieve some very high burst dmg in comparison to EM.
And the fact that AS crits go unresistable is kind of lame. Its the only thing villain side that goes unresisted in PvP, which only makes stalkers more feared, hated, and of a threat. If you really wanted to, to kill an annoying granite armor user, just have 4 stalkers AS him at the same time.
[ QUOTE ]
Actually, one thing to take into account is there is a good synergy between Dominators and Stalkers... when a target is held/slept/stunned, the Stalker crits.
[/ QUOTE ]
The synergy isnt all that great. IIRC, stalkers have a 20% chance to crit uhidden against slept and held enemies. Whcih doesnt make too much sense why its only 2 status effects, and sleep being rare in doms (only comes from mass hypnosis, mezmerise, spore burst, and flash freeze). Why not immobolize instead of sleep, and why only 20%, instead of like 50% or so.
A better synergy for stalkers would be corruptors. After an AS, scourge will almost always be ready to kick in, and on squishies, the scourge will almost always hit after an AS.
But then again, corrs synergize with everything.
To end with a big point, I think stalker's unresisted AS dmg should be changed to something less, maybe like 50% goes unresisted or maybe 70%. Or they could just give some unresisted things to the other ATs, since buffing is more favored than nerfing. As to what other unresisted things, I dont't know what would be appropriate or reasonable. Perhaps corruptor debuffs unresisted? (seems that would go unfavorable amongst players)
[ QUOTE ]
As for the smack talk: it goes hand in hand with PvP as a rule.
[/ QUOTE ]
So does power balance discussions...
In WoW, where builds are arguably much more constrained than here, there was almost nothing else on the message boards... 
Complete with "OMG, teh game is going to die if not class X is nerfed!"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As for the smack talk: it goes hand in hand with PvP as a rule.
[/ QUOTE ]
So does power balance discussions...
In WoW, where builds are arguably much more constrained than here, there was almost nothing else on the message boards...
Complete with "OMG, teh game is going to die if not class X is nerfed!"
[/ QUOTE ]
The WoW boards should never be used as an example for anything.
Lady summed it up much better then I could a few posts back. This red name response is beyond disappointing.
"His Imperial Majesty's Minister of Restraints and Leather" -LHF
Two naughty acronym teams / Ascension / Convenient / Artic and the Chillz / Fap / Other teams I can't remember (sorry.. mind is goin')
To be honest, Lighthouse responding to a thread is lightning striking twice at the same spot. While I can understand that there is going to be less emphasis on PvP, this is nothing new to the PvP vets on the forums. However, everyone is in general agreement that yes, it is awesome that it was decided that Arena terminals have gone into Pocket D, boo bad that there are no confirmations that anything *inside* the Arena has been altered.
One good way to make something less appealing is to put it in someone's face and then show that it is broken through use. I wouldn't want a Teddy Ruxpin for Xmas and find out that the cassette tape player is broken... and it is non-returnable. I'm not expecting immediate HvV balance just yet, as it is a bigger subject... but at the absolute very least, a controlled environment such as the Arena is the best place to warm people to the topic of PvP. To look at the good side of arena:
[*] /ai (Arena Invite) - It cannot be emphasised enough that folks can create a locked arena and invite trusted people to friendly matches of skill[*] Controlled variables - No travel powers, starting with no endurance, limiting powers, etc.[*] Various match types - Last man standing, # of wins, etc.
These are all wonderful things that are simply unattainable in zone PvP and have the potential to gets folks involved and interested. I'm sure 99% of our woes for the folks posting on the boards would be alleviated by correcting even a few of the issues we bring up about the Arenas.
This is in addition to the fact that if the arena issues were fixed, more reliable data can be mined from there for future uses.
Yes, I don't expect a whole lot to come from it, but that is because I have more expectations in the long run for Co* PvP. I want it to flourish.. but baby steps.. always baby steps..
If you want more trust and compliance from us, consider working out the Arenas to a much more playable state and we can be happy for at least 1 more issue. 1 more issue means you can still add bonuses to the PvE game that a greater percentage of the customer base is appeased, and we can stew a little less impatiently till our (and any other potential customer who didn't buy the game 'cause the PvP was 'less than desirable') PvP fix is abated.
And Lady_Sadako is correct, it is a vicious circle, so the hard part is breaking out of it. If you are going to post in the forums about PvP, at least give us a shred of hope that you have intents of breaking out of that vicious circle.
[ QUOTE ]
Long and the short of it, while there are some small PvP thingies getting some attention (like _Castle_ posting about Brute Fury in PvP a few days ago) there are not any big PvP issues on the nearer term feature lists.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is the best thing I've heard from a redname in a goodly amount of time. No offense to the PvPers, but imo the devs have already invested way too much time in what is at best a minority interest.
Umber's Hall of Heroes & Villains
[ QUOTE ]
No offense to the PvPers, but imo the devs have already invested way too much time in what is at best a minority interest.
[/ QUOTE ]
It is a minority interest because it is undesirable to would-be PvP'ers. It has more to do with the system than the players, IMO.
...and the saying 'Any time spent on PvP is wasted time' won't win you any brownie points here. PvP is here to stay, it has a player base, don't rain on our parades.
[ QUOTE ]
No offense to the PvPers, but imo the devs have already invested way too much time in what is at best a minority interest.
[/ QUOTE ]
And until the bugs are fixed and the issues addressed, they won't have invested enough.
Please get a better picture of what's being asked for here. Are people clamouring for more PvP features? No. More PvP zones? No.
What they are asking for is for the PvP we already have to WORK DECENTLY, and for the Dev team to give PvP some more attention and support in terms of events, such as by hosting tournaments and the like.
It's not unreasonable to ask for things to work the way they're supposed to in the first place. That's not demanding more than your fair share. It's simply asking for the share that you have to be fixed.
Just to pull one tiny point out of the hat: the 'rolling tournaments' introduced in Issue FOUR don't work. (Issue FOUR! Remember that?) You also can't bet on the outcome of an Arena fight, which is something that NON PVP people could happily do (such as in Pocket D!) Both of these things were supposed to be in there. They aren't.
[ QUOTE ]
On the tourney issue, I really want to set one up, but looking at the schedule I'm not sure where in the near term we can cram one in (darn holidays and some travel!).
[/ QUOTE ]
Random suggestion:
How about trying to set up a team tournament to coincide with the Super Bowl in Feb.?
If that's not possible, then I'd try for March.....and have CoH's own version of March Madness!
[ QUOTE ]
). Hopefully you can understand the reason and rational behind that.
I wanted to chime in to 1) show that someone reads your goodly threads 2) let you know that PvP issues are not completely forgotten 3) re-iterate that I do want to do some organized PvP stuffs (like organize a tourney with players, etc.) and lastly (ok here comes the bad stuff) 4) let you know a little about PvP from the dev side.
So, as you all know, City of Heroes was developed as a PvE game. As such, PvE changes affect everyone that plays CoH, unlike PvP which only comes to affect those who chose to engage in it. Long and the short of it, while there are some small PvP thingies getting some attention (like _Castle_ posting about Brute Fury in PvP a few days ago) there are not any big PvP issues on the nearer term feature lists.
However, we still really appreciate the great feedback (and when you guys aren't hazing each other
On the tourney issue, I really want to set one up, but looking at the schedule I'm not sure where in the near term we can cram one in (darn holidays and some travel!). If any players are interested in helping to set one up (or setting it up and having me do a bit of promoting for it) please feel free to PM me on the forums or write me at Lighthouse@ncsoft.com
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you for your very PR response Lighthouse. We now know where we rank (officially) as far as importance in the devs eyes (somewhere below some random costume part) and I'm sure many will now be looking for a game that delivers on the PvP promises they make, which makes me very sad because good and bad, I love this game. There is amazing POTENTIAL for PvP here, and like anything with great potential comes the feeling of loss when you start to accept that it will not be realized. Like so many things in the software world, someone envisioned something, but is not delivering due to either lack of funding, lack of passion, or lack of understanding.
What we really wanted out of this was *gasp* a stable arena to play in and attention to paid to some of the issues at hand that have been SOOOO clearly laid out for anyone that gave a damn to read. Your participation in the PvP side of the game is a nice bone to throw, but it doesn't fix the problems that we're having. I'd really like to see you run a tournament and see for yourself how difficult it can be and how many bugs we have to put up with in order to PLAY.
I'm normally pretty quiet, but I can't help but feel sorrow for the extensive time I've now been playing this game and my (and many others) end game content (PvP) continue to take the lowest priority when so many promises were made and so much excitement instilled throughout our time here in this game.
That's all.