... hence why PvP is undesirable.
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The devs made some significant misjudgments early on in the process of adding PvP. I4 brought us the arena and it bombed horribly. It bombed because it was unforgivably broken when it went live and remains unaddressed to this day. With the arena in this state, most of the playerbase gave up on it.
I5 gave us no arena fixes, but brought massive nerfs. (I am including ED in I5 even though they were seperate patches.) Rightly or wrongly the majority of the playerbase blamed these nerfs on PvP. The Devs badly mishandled communication with the playerbase in regard to these changes in the game and the belief that PvP = nerfs remains the majority opinion to this day.
I6 gave us zone PvP. And zone PvP was based on flawed assumptions. The Devs assumed that the zones would be full of players and that combat in them would center around things like the Sirens hotspots. They apparently envisioned 40-50 heroes vs 40-50 villains at a time. Under these circumstances, any decent PvE build would be able to contribute meaningfully to PvP combat. They banked on World War II and they got Vietnam. PvP in the zones centers around guerilla tactics and small unit actions. This magnifies the difference between PvP and PvE optimised builds and placed Stalkers at a significant advantage. Most of the PvE population got their first taste of zone PvP by being oneshotted by a stalker and being unable to defend themselves. It took time to work out tactics and builds to overcome hide+stealth+AS. Unfortunately, by the time this information became widespread the majority of the PvE playerbase had experienced or had heard secondhand accounts of "Unbeatable Untargetable Stalkers" This served to drive much of the playerbase away from PvP. Currently, Stalkers are much more managable, but in the first 2 months of I6, they ruled the zones. Especially versus non PvP builds and those with little or no PvP experience. This stigma lingers to this day as well.
I7 brought a new PvP zone, one in which the myth of the "Unbeatable Stalker" was utterly crushed, but the myth lingers on in the minds of the PvE playerbase.
Because of all of these things, PvP is one of the most if not the most polarising issue in CoX. Two camps have emerged and both camps appear to be unwilling to work with the other. PvP is very unapproachable for those who want to participate now. You must have specialised builds and learn tactics that require a steep curve to master compared to PvE. Anyone can take a good PvP build and be successful in PvE. The converse is demonstrably false. My Dark/Electric defender is poison in PvE but is hopeless even with a team in PvP. There are a handful of builds that are dramatically more effective in PvP than everything else and this serves as a further disincentive to get involved in PvP for the PvE crowd.
Anyway, sorry for the length of this rant. I have PvPed in the past with every toon in my Sig except the warshade. PvP is unenjoyable for me because of the narrow build requirements, the egos and immature attitudes of a significant minority of the PvP playerbase and the feeling that I cannot get an even break unless I follow the herd mentality and min/max a build specifically for PvP.
The Devs slowly let PvP slide into this state and it appears that they are unwilling to fix the errors that have led us to this point.
M'Teru couldn't get the job done. So she sent Mot to Astoria. Bad call.
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As for the smack talk: it goes hand in hand with PvP as a rule. It's easy enough to ignore it or just smack right back, IME.
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I disagree. I came to CoH 19 months ago, mostly because after a year in a very serious UT Clan, I was just burnt out from straight up real PvP (you know, the kind where you actually have to aim to hit your target, and move to avoid being hit).
The most successful clans, in my experience, were also the most gracious and mature clans. Even if they technically pwned us into oblivion, they were polite and low key in their victory.
Trash talk and bragging is the sign of an insecure player looking for attention. Bragging in PvP doesn't make you a better person, doesn't net you a hot girlfriend, and certainly doesn't make ones package any bigger. Get over yourself.
If you 'win', do so with grace and style. Compliment your opponents on a battle well fougt. But to say the [censored] talking should just be accepted as part and parcel of PvP is ridiculous. It's not. Perhaps if more sportsmanship was displayed, people wouldn't be turned off to PvP.
Johnny Aces - lvl 50 Katana/Regen Scrapper
Tommy The Cat - lvl 50 - SS/EA Brute
Capt'n Frosty - lvl 50 Ice/Ice Tank
Frayed Wire - lvl 50 Fire/Electric Scrapper
Spectral Visonary - lvl 49 Ill/Rad Troller
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But to say the [censored] talking should just be accepted as part and parcel of PvP is ridiculous.
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You miss my point, I think. I'm not saying accept it, I'm saying don't let it put you off. If you PvP, you will encounter trash talk.
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I'd like to see stalkers be deleted from the AT list, it's the most cowardly thing you could ever pick. Imho the burst damage is way too high and couple that with the stealth powers they can stack they clearly have the upper hand on even the guys who run tactics.
- Stalkers do not help teamwork on the villain side! Almost all stalkers run solo and never team.
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If not for stalkers so many hero ATs would never ever die
I thought about it for a bit, too... The folks that complain that they don't PvP because of the smack talk should be able to dilute it with their own courtesy.
After all, if they aren't part of the problem, can they be a part of the solution? I'd like to see that people that claim to be courteous flood the zones and shut the kiddies up or drown them out with "GF" or "GG."
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No offense to the PvPers, but imo the devs have already invested way too much time in what is at best a minority interest.
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It is a minority interest because it is undesirable to would-be PvP'ers.
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As a non-PvPer allow me to state the simple reason why I'm not interested - CoH isn't a PvP game. It wasn't build around PvP concerns and is lightyears away from having any real balance. The devs admit there is no AT or powerset balance, and tougue-in-cheek suggest that balance exists at the team level (which is just another way of saying that stronger builds will pull the weight of weaker builds overall). The amount of change necessary to get powersets to rough equilibrium would be massive, its not something we're going to see take play in CoX when the devs won't even devote the time to tweak blaster secondaries. If you want a PvP-balanced game you'll need to wait on CoH2 or City of Marvels.
Someone else had compared the situation to Dominator unpopularity, and the situation is similar with only one difference - scale. Thats a big difference tho, Doms can be improved with relatively minor tweaks, PvP balance would require a revisit to almost every single powerset in the game with some major changes across the board. It'd require darn near a rewrite of the game.
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A Dog has 5 puppies.
You go and buy all 5 of those puppies.
Later, the runt of the litter gets sick.
Are you going to put that dog to sleep just because it has a minor problem, that can be easly fixed if you put time into it?
Analogies aside, if the devs have the time to ask a Board Mod to go onto the PvP boards and tell everyone that "hey pvp later... kthnxbi" Then they should have the time to make pvp gooder. WAY GOODER. SUPER GOODER!
Just... go home. 
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Doms can be improved with relatively minor tweaks
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Doms have recieved nothing but buffs since their arrival to the AT list, and are recieving another buff come I8.
What minor tweaks are you suggesting that haven't been implemented already? Doms face the same problems as controllers, excpet controllers perform better than doms due to the fact that controllers have more survivability than dominators and are more of a threat than doms. What "minor" tweaks do you have in mind?
Unresistable anything would be nice for Doms.
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Unresistable anything would be nice for Doms.
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QFT QFE
As the proud owner of 8 doms ranging from 8 to 33 scattered over 4 servers I endorse this statement. Out of all my toons the only one I PvP with anymore is the 33 Ice/Ice Dom. Unresistable anything would indeed be nice for Doms.
Or better yet, how about an unresistable inherent that makes SOMEBODY offer me a team in Sirens... All the stalkers want me to play bait, but none of them will share the bounty... 
M'Teru couldn't get the job done. So she sent Mot to Astoria. Bad call.
Teamed stalkers crit 40% when teamed with the dominator and 5% when not?
Actually.. 40% when Dominate held, 20% when held, 5% when not teamed. Yeah.. I know.. Stalker nerf.. but I'd team with a Dom knowing I could crit 20% to 40% of the time.. and the Dom would love me knowing I'm hovering close to them and waiting.
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I wanted to chime in to 1) show that someone reads your goodly threads 2) let you know that PvP issues are not completely forgotten 3) re-iterate that I do want to do some organized PvP stuffs (like organize a tourney with players, etc.) and lastly (ok here comes the bad stuff) 4) let you know a little about PvP from the dev side.
So, as you all know, City of Heroes was developed as a PvE game. As such, PvE changes affect everyone that plays CoH, unlike PvP which only comes to affect those who chose to engage in it. Long and the short of it, while there are some small PvP thingies getting some attention (like _Castle_ posting about Brute Fury in PvP a few days ago) there are not any big PvP issues on the nearer term feature lists.
However, we still really appreciate the great feedback (and when you guys aren't hazing each other 
). Hopefully you can understand the reason and rational behind that.
On the tourney issue, I really want to set one up, but looking at the schedule I'm not sure where in the near term we can cram one in (darn holidays and some travel!). If any players are interested in helping to set one up (or setting it up and having me do a bit of promoting for it) please feel free to PM me on the forums or write me at Lighthouse@ncsoft.com
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This would be cool.... if PvP was functioning properly. With all the exploits in the game and imbalances, it makes PvP just awful in CoH/V. Perhaps even some of the worst I've ever seen, which is truly a shame since the combat engine is just beautiful. I'd love to see PvP fixed, and then I'd be all over these kinds of events. As it is, PvP just seems to leave a big question mark.
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Teamed stalkers crit 40% when teamed with the dominator and 5% when not?
Actually.. 40% when Dominate held, 20% when held, 5% when not teamed. Yeah.. I know.. Stalker nerf.. but I'd team with a Dom knowing I could crit 20% to 40% of the time.. and the Dom would love me knowing I'm hovering close to them and waiting.
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And this paticular Dom would love to team with you, but I doubt you are on Triumph...
M'Teru couldn't get the job done. So she sent Mot to Astoria. Bad call.
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Long and the short of it, while there are some small PvP thingies getting some attention (like _Castle_ posting about Brute Fury in PvP a few days ago) there are not any big PvP issues on the nearer term feature lists.
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That is the best thing I've heard from a redname in a goodly amount of time. No offense to the PvPers, but imo the devs have already invested way too much time in what is at best a minority interest.
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QFT
-- War
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Long and the short of it, while there are some small PvP thingies getting some attention (like _Castle_ posting about Brute Fury in PvP a few days ago) there are not any big PvP issues on the nearer term feature lists.
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That is the best thing I've heard from a redname in a goodly amount of time. No offense to the PvPers, but imo the devs have already invested way too much time in what is at best a minority interest.
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QFT
-- War
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QFI - Quoted for ignorance
Everyone knows the most important thread on the boards right now is the Future of /Respec though...
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Long and the short of it, while there are some small PvP thingies getting some attention (like _Castle_ posting about Brute Fury in PvP a few days ago) there are not any big PvP issues on the nearer term feature lists.
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That is the best thing I've heard from a redname in a goodly amount of time. No offense to the PvPers, but imo the devs have already invested way too much time in what is at best a minority interest.
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QFT
-- War
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I'm offended. Suppose a red name wrote they won't be spending time on badges (minority group) or bases (another minority group)? We all have opinions on what we'd like the devs to spend time on, but I think it is absurdly rude to come into the PvP forum and essentially kick all the PvPers in the head when a red name has just told them that they don't matter.
Please stop being an [censored].
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Long and the short of it, while there are some small PvP thingies getting some attention (like _Castle_ posting about Brute Fury in PvP a few days ago) there are not any big PvP issues on the nearer term feature lists.
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That is the best thing I've heard from a redname in a goodly amount of time. No offense to the PvPers, but imo the devs have already invested way too much time in what is at best a minority interest.
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QFT
-- War
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lol cry more noobs, pvp is a part of this game whether you like it or not. go farm hamidon for the 1000th time and do some tf you did 40 times already and talk about how skilled you are beating up on some retarded AI on your roleplaying forums
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lol cry more noobs, pvp is a part of this game whether you like it or not. go farm hamidon for the 1000th time and do some tf you did 40 times already and talk about how skilled you are beating up on some retarded AI on your roleplaying forums
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And this is why people like RyStorm.
i just tell it like it is lol
/em bow
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I agree with the slow resistance totally outmatching slows. One SB or AB totally outclasses any slow. On the other hand though, I think slows are too powerful. the -recharge builds far too quickly, and should have a reduced cap.
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Slows are not overpowered. Maybe slows on certain controllers or ice blasters are overpowered, but my ice/kin relies heavily on slows, and for him they are not overpowered. By the time the opponent is slow capped I'v taken plenty of hits too. Nerf things like ice/energy and ice controller slows, but not slows in general.
Please show your support here . I made a post in the general forum to publicize that the arena fixes should at least be addressed.
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lol cry more noobs, pvp is a part of this game whether you like it or not. go farm hamidon for the 1000th time and do some tf you did 40 times already and talk about how skilled you are beating up on some retarded AI on your roleplaying forums
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And this is why people like RyStorm.
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Long and the short of it, while there are some small PvP thingies getting some attention (like _Castle_ posting about Brute Fury in PvP a few days ago) there are not any big PvP issues on the nearer term feature lists.
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That is the best thing I've heard from a redname in a goodly amount of time. No offense to the PvPers, but imo the devs have already invested way too much time in what is at best a minority interest.
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QFT
-- War
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I'm offended. Suppose a red name wrote they won't be spending time on badges (minority group) or bases (another minority group)? We all have opinions on what we'd like the devs to spend time on, but I think it is absurdly rude to come into the PvP forum and essentially kick all the PvPers in the head when a red name has just told them that they don't matter.
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The intention of my post was not to dash all hopes of any change in PvP, but to help illustrate why those changes hadn't been a hot topic with design. I know that a lot of their time, when it isn't currently spent getting Issue 8 out the door, is working on some of the very broad and exciting stuff coming in issue 9 that will add a lot to the game over all (inventions + other goodies).
I do really like the suggestion about trying to re-use the old event where everyone got a level 40 on Training Room to come PvP with. That sounds like it might have some good broad appeal and make for a pretty darn fun weekend. Of course, I haven't investigated it with the dev team and it might not be possible, but still a good idea to follow up on. Besides, I'd like to play a few different Archetypes myself at lvl 40 with a hord of other folks to blast at or along side with. 
Let's try and focus the discussion on things we can do under the current systems?
Lighthouse
Community Relations Manager
If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.
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No offense to the PvPers, but imo the devs have already invested way too much time in what is at best a minority interest.
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It is a minority interest because it is undesirable to would-be PvP'ers.
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As a non-PvPer allow me to state the simple reason why I'm not interested - CoH isn't a PvP game. It wasn't build around PvP concerns and is lightyears away from having any real balance. The devs admit there is no AT or powerset balance, and tougue-in-cheek suggest that balance exists at the team level (which is just another way of saying that stronger builds will pull the weight of weaker builds overall). The amount of change necessary to get powersets to rough equilibrium would be massive, its not something we're going to see take play in CoX when the devs won't even devote the time to tweak blaster secondaries. If you want a PvP-balanced game you'll need to wait on CoH2 or City of Marvels.
Someone else had compared the situation to Dominator unpopularity, and the situation is similar with only one difference - scale. Thats a big difference tho, Doms can be improved with relatively minor tweaks, PvP balance would require a revisit to almost every single powerset in the game with some major changes across the board. It'd require darn near a rewrite of the game.
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