You seem to have misunderstood my post. My post was meant to show WHY Cryptic is doing what they are doing and why it makes sense from a business position. It is not to judge what some players may consider to be the "right way'" OR the "wrong way" to handle the situation according to that person point of View. You are arguing how you would like to see it done. Yet your very statements show that it is from emotion, not business point of view. While those emotions are fully justified from what I can tell, It still does not change the fact that from a business POV, PvP is a small percentage of players and the resources necessary to make most of the changes the PvPers want are better spent on other areas.
[ QUOTE ]
You wouldn't ask me what percentage of the player base was heavily into bases or heavily into playing Dominators, and yet both of these features are flawed, and need fixing, and will most likely get it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course I would ask those things, At least if I was a smart business owner. Resources ARE limited. You put your resources to where they do the most good. Restaurants stop serving certain dishes all the time because they require too much work and just are not popular enough. Do you honestly think that business DOESN'T work based on popularity of product? If so then I am afraid we have reached an impasse as your basic theories of business do not agree with mine and most other people.
[ QUOTE ]
quote]When you put money into something 5 times in a row, and fail all 5 times
[/ QUOTE ]
Fail?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes Failed, at least as far as cryptic is concerned. A handful of people using PvP zones does not make them worth the investment of money. This is a business, NOT a charity, The same effort would have resulted in 4 to 10 NEW zones, and MANY other extras. That includes a new zone for all those who want a level 40-50 area. What would make more people happy? That's the question they need to ask.
[ QUOTE ]
Did you see the test of RV when there was auto-leveling to 40? PvP still draws plenty of support, WHEN IT WORKS.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, Unfortunately I missed it 
How many players were on and how long did it last?
[ QUOTE ]
You're seriously wrong. You are basing your figures on a snapshot, and on your own inferences. You have no way of knowing how many people
[/ QUOTE ]
I have taken time to try to get an idea as to these figures. You can't even give me an estimate. In order to tackle a problem like this we need data which though my sampling may be flawed does give an idea on where people stand. Cryptic has that data and I am sure it shows what I am saying to be the case. Either that or Cryptic is full of people who are in on a conspiracy to sabotage PvP and reduce profits.
Dev: "Hey Statesman I can fix the Arenas and are numbers show 40% of the players would love PvP."
Statesman: "Shut up, I hate those things and the people who it would make happy, I want them to leave my Precious game. MY PRECIOUSE"
Or
Dev: "1 % of the Player base ranks PvP as more important than New Zones, 78% rank New zones as more important. Where do you want us to focus Statesman."
Statesman: "My business degree suggests we focus on the 78%. Make it so #1."
Which sounds like the real situation?
[ QUOTE ]
- pvp very casually, but still appreciate the presence of pvp in COX
- would pvp a lot, but don't because of bugs
[/ QUOTE ]
But these people are unimportant to the mix from a business stand point. They will also enjoy the other stuff instead (New zones, costumes, Inventions, etc)
[ QUOTE ]
- want to try pvp but are scared off
- want to try pvp but don't know how to start
[/ QUOTE ]
And now you are touching on the other half of my post. The real reason people avoid PvP in my opinion. They get slaughtered, Griefed, Perceive many of the players to use cheap tactics, feel their builds are gimped, etc. Of course their scared off.
[ QUOTE ]
Cryptic INSTIGATED PvP features in this game, and because of that, they have a responsibility to maintain them. It's not throwing good money after bad, it's patching up what was broken when you put it in.
[/ QUOTE ]
No cryptic has a responsibility to make money and keep as many costumers as it can happy and paying. It is a BUSINESS! Not a charity.
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and every time you get a salvage drop, think of PvP, because half the salvage recipes are for PvP items. Turrets, defences, widgets to rebuild broken stuff, defence screens. Now tell me that PvP is irrelevant. .
[/ QUOTE ]
PvP is Irrelevant to Cryptic AT THIS POINT IN TIME. All those things took time and money to make. And almost NO ONE uses them. Worse still there is little evidence that pouring more money into fixing these will draw in new players. Until someone can show Cryptic that they will get a lot of new costumers, OR make a lot of current costumers happy OR show them a simple, low resources, and low impact on other areas of the game method for improving PvP it will be on the back burner. At least that is how I interpret Cryptic’s stance.
[ QUOTE ]
It's all very well for Lighthouse to point out that this was developed as a PvE game, but you know, it wasn't US who put the PvP features in, it was the Devs, and since they opted to do that, we're well within our rights to ask them to make those features work.
Frankly, it doesn't matter how many people you or I might think PvP in this game. That's not important. What's important is that the Devs take care of what they introduced.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wrong. At least from Cryptics point of view, and after all it’s their decision to make. What’s important to the Devs is to do what Cryptic wants, and that is make money. Money is made by using your resources in the most efficient way possible. You are continuing to confuse what YOU want with what is in Cryptics best interest. I will agree it would be nice for them to fix the arena. However I can see the big picture which is for Cryptic to make as many people as happy as possible within their limited budget.
[ QUOTE ]
'Let's put chilli on the menu!'
'This chilli is way too hot.'
'Look, only a few people are eating our chilli.'
'Hey, manager, could you fix this chilli?'
'No, we have to prioritise all our other dishes. Only a few of you are eating the chilli.'
'But the chilli is really hot.'
'Sorry, this wasn't a chilli restaurant when it opened.'
'But I like chilli. Could you just make it a little less hot?
[/ QUOTE ]
And restaurants do this all the time. They add items to the menu, find they take to much kitchen resources and to few people are ordering them and they pull them off the menu. Burger King, McDs, Jack in the Box all add stuff. Some thy keep, Some they don't. It's a good business model.
You continue to view this from "What you want". Many of those things I would also like. However My post is about the reality of the game, the business and why Cryptic has taken this stand. If cryptic could magically wave a wand and fix arena bugs they would. So would I. However it takes money to fix those bugs and based on there Data that money is far better spent elsewhere. It's as simple as that. You can shout till your blue. But until you can show some hard evidence that it is in Cryptics best interest, blue is all you will get.
[ QUOTE ]
People will not quit the game because they didn't get that pair of gloves or that one extra badge they wanted added to the game. People will quit the game if the PvP problems are ignored by the devs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry but your example is flawed. A set of gloves takes no real time. Comparing it to the 1000's of Man hours needed for PvP is ludicrous.
Multiple costume sets and new zones = PvP. People do leave do to lack of new costumes and new zones. One of my friends has altitis and specificly plays the game "like a barbie doll" Make a character, Dress it up real nice, Run it for 5 or so levels showing it off, Rinse Repeat. Another plays almost purley with the costume designer and has no real desire to interact. Yes he pays $12 a month just to have a virtual dress up area.
[ QUOTE ]
If you fix it, they will come. It will attract a whole new crowd to the game if it becomes well known for its PvP, as opposed to scaring them away, like it is now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats a nice thought but so far there is little or no evidence of this. And worse still you are assuming it CAN be fixed. Some bugs just are impossible to fix. Look at Windows.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
People will not quit the game because they didn't get that pair of gloves or that one extra badge they wanted added to the game. People will quit the game if the PvP problems are ignored by the devs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry but your example is flawed. A set of gloves takes no real time. Comparing it to the 1000's of Man hours needed for PvP is ludicrous.
Multiple costume sets and new zones = PvP. People do leave do to lack of new costumes and new zones. One of my friends has altitis and specificly plays the game "like a barbie doll" Make a character, Dress it up real nice, Run it for 5 or so levels showing it off, Rinse Repeat. Another plays almost purley with the costume designer and has no real desire to interact. Yes he pays $12 a month just to have a virtual dress up area.
[ QUOTE ]
If you fix it, they will come. It will attract a whole new crowd to the game if it becomes well known for its PvP, as opposed to scaring them away, like it is now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats a nice thought but so far there is little or no evidence of this. And worse still you are assuming it CAN be fixed. Some bugs just are impossible to fix. Look at Windows.
[/ QUOTE ]
Cathulu,
Why do you continue to make up stuff? Are you a dev? Your "scientific" method of gathering statistics isn't anywhere close to being accurate, relevant or factual. I could do my own random sampling and get completely different results.
How do you know exactly how long X will take compared to Y? Do you have access to the CoH code?
Please take your pseudo-science somewhere else. Because as far as I'm concerned your ravings sound like the stuff I hear from the Flat Earth society or the people who think that the body is composed of five elemental essences.
Take a class in statistics. What has more posts is meaningless since these forums do not represent the player base. Your average player probably doesn't even know these forums exist. NO I AM NOT KIDDING. Your sample set must be from the game itself, OR the players, OR the potential players.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PvP: PVPers make up 2-6% of the population and PvP changes would require a lot of resources from Cryptic.
I have done some random sampling on Protector and Virtue over the last few days and the results show between 1% and 4% (Average 2.54%) of online players are in the PvP zones at any given time.
[/ QUOTE ]
I did some random sampling as well:
At the time of this post:
There are exactly 596 threads in the "Badges" forum.
There are exactly 845 threads in the "PVP" forum.
This means that PVP is approximately 60% more popular than badges. Making badge hunters the minority.
So stop making new badges and fix PVP!
Seriously.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Take a class in statistics. What has more posts is meaningless since these forums do not represent the player base. Your average player probably doesn't even know these forums exist. NO I AM NOT KIDDING. Your sample set must be from the game itself, OR the players, OR the potential players.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PvP: PVPers make up 2-6% of the population and PvP changes would require a lot of resources from Cryptic.
I have done some random sampling on Protector and Virtue over the last few days and the results show between 1% and 4% (Average 2.54%) of online players are in the PvP zones at any given time.
[/ QUOTE ]
I did some random sampling as well:
At the time of this post:
There are exactly 596 threads in the "Badges" forum.
There are exactly 845 threads in the "PVP" forum.
This means that PVP is approximately 60% more popular than badges. Making badge hunters the minority.
So stop making new badges and fix PVP!
Seriously.
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
You should take your own advice. One of the first things they teach you about in statistics is about sample size. The second thing they teach you is how to take an objective survey and not color it with prejudices. No one is convinced of your arguments because you clearly have an agenda and no matter what kind of pseudo-scientific stuff you come up with, you'll skew the results to suit your ends.
[ QUOTE ]
My post was meant to show WHY Cryptic is doing what they are doing and why it makes sense from a business position.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you may have elected yourself spokesperson for Cryptic a little prematurely!
[ QUOTE ]
You are arguing how you would like to see it done. Yet your very statements show that it is from emotion, not business point of view.
[/ QUOTE ]
You couldn't be more wrong. Firstly, please don't try to claim that I'm arguing from emotion - that's patronising. Secondly, I've run a business, and I know about business.
[ QUOTE ]
from a business POV, PvP is a small percentage of players
[/ QUOTE ]
PvP isn't players. PvP is features. Players respond to those features. The better it works, the more people use it. THAT is simple business. Players who enjoy PvP have left CoH because the PvP wasn't working properly. That, too, is simple business.
[ QUOTE ]
and the resources necessary to make most of the changes the PvPers want are better spent on other areas.
[/ QUOTE ]
The 'changes the PvPers want' are called 'fixes'. Are you seriously trying to tell me that fixing what has already been introduced, so that it works the way it was supposed to, is less important from a business point of view than introducing new stuff?
Let me put this into business speak. Every feature in the game is an asset. Every feature that doesn't work properly is an asset that is deprived of value.
Fixing PvP assets brings back lost PvPer custom, while detracting nothing but small amounts of programming time from the remainder of the playerbase.
[ QUOTE ]
Resources ARE limited. You put your resources to where they do the most good.
[/ QUOTE ]
Resources are not so limited that there has to be triage between fixes and new content.
[ QUOTE ]
Do you honestly think that business DOESN'T work based on popularity of product?
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course it does. I just think you have very simplistic ideas of what popularity entails.
[ QUOTE ]
Yes Failed, at least as far as cryptic is concerned. A handful of people using PvP zones does not make them worth the investment of money.
[/ QUOTE ]
You don't speak for Cryptic, and to be frank, you're not saying anything that any Cryptic employee has ever said. All you're doing is drawing your own conclusions from Lighthouse's posts, then presenting them as what Cryptic thinks. I'm afraid I don't agree with your conclusions, and I very much doubt that Cryptic would endorse them, either.
[ QUOTE ]
How many players were on and how long did it last?
[/ QUOTE ]
Masses, and it went on all weekend if I remember rightly.
[ QUOTE ]
I have taken time to try to get an idea as to these figures.
[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed you have, and that's laudable, but (as I pointed out, and others have too) your method is so flawed as to be useless. Furthermore, if it shows anything, it shows that even the problematic PvP in CoX has significant support. That ought to be an indication of how serious player support for PvP WOULD be if it worked properly.
[ QUOTE ]
Which sounds like the real situation?
[/ QUOTE ]
Neither. Personally, I think it's a bit more chaotic than that. The Devs are in the midst of I9, which will bring a lot of new, cool stuff. To be totally honest, I think they're so excited and distracted by Inventions that they've lost sight of the fixes that PvP needs. For example, they've put Arena terminals into Pocket D, complete with helpful NPCs to explain how things work, and a whole new Monkey Fight section which must have taken a lot of time, not to mention adding a new Pocket D map to the Arena, and yet the Arena still hasn't had the fixes it's needed since I4.
Now tell me, how does THAT work? They go to all that trouble to do something which is PURELY based around PvP, but don't fix the actual PvP at the core.
If your theory was correct, then the coming changes to Pocket D in I8 would make no sense at all. The recent release of the CoP trial would make no sense, either. Nor would working on base raids to get them to work, which they've said they're doing. And so on.
[ QUOTE ]
No cryptic has a responsibility to make money and keep as many costumers as it can happy and paying.
[/ QUOTE ]
My emphasis. In business, when you invest in an asset, and it doesn't work properly first time, you don't just abandon it if it can be fixed. Instead, you fix it. Fixing what's already there takes fewer resources than introducing something totally new. That's business sense.
[ QUOTE ]
PvP is Irrelevant to Cryptic AT THIS POINT IN TIME.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're wrong. Cryptic's own activity indicates it.
PvP is not 'irrelevant'. Not by a long way. This is taking Lighthouse's words and spinning them way out of their original meaning. If PvP is irrelevant, why make a big deal over the new Arena addition to Pocket D? Or the CoP trial, which leads to PvP base raids, which they are apparently working to fix even as we speak?
Let me underline it again: this is about FIXES to what's in already. Fixes demand programming time. You are not about to tell me that Cryptic intend to leave things permanently broken.
[ QUOTE ]
Worse still there is little evidence that pouring more money into fixing these will draw in new players.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is plenty of evidence that leaving them unfixed lost players. I refer you to the post about whole SGs leaving.
[ QUOTE ]
You are continuing to confuse what YOU want with what is in Cryptics best interest.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not at all. I'm pointing out that it's simply inconsistent to promote with one hand, then leave unfixed with the other. Why make a fuss about putting an Arena in Pocket D and not fix the Arena? Why create a brilliant zone in RV and then give a gimpy temp power as a reward? The fixes we're talking about are not large, compared to the work of introducing the feature in the first place. It's like buying an expensive car, then abandoning it because you got a puncture.
[ QUOTE ]
They add items to the menu, find they take to much kitchen resources and to few people are ordering them and they pull them off the menu.
[/ QUOTE ]
And you miss the point that the reason 'too few' people are ordering the chilli is that the chilli was made too hot in the first place. Vicious circle. Again.
[ QUOTE ]
You continue to view this from "What you want".
[/ QUOTE ]
No, I view this from the perspective of what makes sense. I don't think you should be so keen to speak for Cryptic - to be fair, you have said it's just your interpretation, but your interpretation doesn't fit the facts.
What Lighthouse actually said:
[ QUOTE ]
The intention of my post was not to dash all hopes of any change in PvP, but to help illustrate why those changes hadn't been a hot topic with design.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hadn't been. Not 'are not'. That's not Cryptic saying that PvP is 'irrelevant'. That's Lighthouse explaining what they're busy with right now. And the message we're sending is that it makes no sense to abandon PvP like you seem to think they have.
I think the forum guy has spelled it out pretty clearly on this thread.
If you like PVP that is balanced and not buggy, .......play another game.
[ QUOTE ]
Take a class in statistics. What has more posts is meaningless since these forums do not represent the player base. Your average player probably doesn't even know these forums exist. NO I AM NOT KIDDING. Your sample set must be from the game itself, OR the players, OR the potential players.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PvP: PVPers make up 2-6% of the population and PvP changes would require a lot of resources from Cryptic.
I have done some random sampling on Protector and Virtue over the last few days and the results show between 1% and 4% (Average 2.54%) of online players are in the PvP zones at any given time.
[/ QUOTE ]
I did some random sampling as well:
At the time of this post:
There are exactly 596 threads in the "Badges" forum.
There are exactly 845 threads in the "PVP" forum.
This means that PVP is approximately 60% more popular than badges. Making badge hunters the minority.
So stop making new badges and fix PVP!
Seriously.
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you're dead wrong.
Maybe the common player who is new to the game doesn't iirc most veteran players who've been playing 3 months I'd say know they exsists, no they don't have to post, but they do know they exsist.
[/end pointless rant]
[ QUOTE ]
[Quote]
Did you see the test of RV when there was auto-leveling to 40? PvP still draws plenty of support, WHEN IT WORKS.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, Unfortunately I missed it
How many players were on and how long did it last?
[/ QUOTE ]
Just so this all doesn't sound like tossing yourself into the fire...
The test RV event was very fun, and absolutely HUGE. If I remember correctly, I saw over 30 instances of RV listed as FULL (which I think is 200 players, correct me if I'm wrong) and there were several more besides.
If that particular event is any indication, than the PvP events would have HUGE turnouts, and even better turnout and popularity if PvP was more attractive for regular usage.
like a little over 1 day, and there were roughly 18-22 instances of RV at peak hours (and because you could exit into PvE (bug)) like 3 of Grandville
[ QUOTE ]
You should take your own advice. One of the first things they teach you about in statistics is about sample size. The second thing they teach you is how to take an objective survey and not color it with prejudices. No one is convinced of your arguments because you clearly have an agenda and no matter what kind of pseudo-scientific stuff you come up with, you'll skew the results to suit your ends.
[/ QUOTE ]
I listed my Sample size. 100 players out of 600 or so (Don't have the figures in front of me) Thats a pretty good sample in most peoples book. Is my analasys perfect. Not by a long shot. But it sure as heck beats counting who has the most posts on a forum. THATS what I was responding to.
As for having an agenda, (at least if it's what you are implying) try again. I PvP at least 1-5 hours a week, I have an Ill/Empath respeced to within 90% of a PvP build (Just can't bring myself to drop PA). I would like to see a better arena, and Heavens knows I have activly posted several times for them to allow free Respecs to attract more players. Bias?!? Try again!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[Quote]
Did you see the test of RV when there was auto-leveling to 40? PvP still draws plenty of support, WHEN IT WORKS.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, Unfortunately I missed it
How many players were on and how long did it last?
[/ QUOTE ]
Just so this all doesn't sound like tossing yourself into the fire...
The test RV event was very fun, and absolutely HUGE. If I remember correctly, I saw over 30 instances of RV listed as FULL (which I think is 200 players, correct me if I'm wrong) and there were several more besides.
If that particular event is any indication, than the PvP events would have HUGE turnouts, and even better turnout and popularity if PvP was more attractive for regular usage.
[/ QUOTE ]
LMAO!!
guys, most of the people that went to this event, that I knew at least, self included and most of our server forum, didn't go b/c they wanted to PvP in the new zone, the huge excitement for almost everyone I knew, was the chance to instantly make a 40 and test out all kinds of builds and concepts. I don't think the events attendance was in anyway a measure of the player audiences demand for PvP..
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think the events attendance was in anyway a measure of the player audiences demand for PvP..
[/ QUOTE ]
The term is 'in any way, shape, or form' in which you have summarily shot yourself in the foot. You're in fact saying, that because a new PvP zone came out and that there were 30 instances of it, it was by no stretch of the imagination an indicator of the folks that were interested in PvP. This is like walking into a meth lab and saying that they don't make drugs here.
200 players per instance, 30 instances, 15$ a month, 2 years = $2,160,000.00. Unless that is your monthly salary, I think a little more than a few hours a week can justify that 'asset' to alot of people.
My apologise for making assumtions about you. I appreciate the civility you have used in this conversation.
While I don't agree with all your points and I am not sure I have expressed mine well enough I will leave your last post with the final words on my points.
Just so you are not left with the wrong impression I do honestly hope PvP can be made to work. My favorite characters tend to be Team oriented Empaths and I have REALLY enjoyed the few occasions when I was in a WELL ballanced PvP match, struggling to keep the team going and being challenged more then 99.9% of the PvE world gives. I would say 1 of my 10 best experiances was in PvP.
You'll have to forgive me, as I haven't read everything from my last post until now. I read your most immediate post that followed mine, and I really only have point to say in response:
If Cryptic wanted to focus on PvE, then perhaps they should have never released PvP. It's hard to make the argument that PvP contains a small amount of people. If it was implemented correctly, I'm sure more people would play it.
Let's say if there was an ongoing system akin to Siren's Call where heroes and villains had to do missions to turn the tide of the eternal struggle of good and evil. Things like Capture the Flag type of indoor missions that had both villains and heroes in it and they had to fight over items or hostages. Or mix the safeguard/mayhems to have player villains and heroes to stop each other's objectives. These are things that would make PvP more appealing, in my opinion.
When Cryptic first mentioned PvP, those are the kinds of things I thought would be in the works. If I knew they were going to release a buggy Arena and then throw in a few zones that fall significantly short of their potential due to implementation and balance issues, then I'd have said scratch the Arena plans for Issue 4, and move everything else up. That was Issue 9 would be Issue 8 and THEN they could potentially work on PvP. They have the concept down when it comes to wing animations as far as showing it, then taking it away in the desire to do it right.
But the past can't be changed, and they've made the situation themselves. I think it's a crying shame that they've treated PvP the way they have. They should have never released it if it'd just forgotten the way it has. Maybe forgotten is a harsh term, but indefinitely backburnered certainly fits the situation.
I mean, I don't remember anyone really clamoring for PvP before Issue 4 came out.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It makes me wonder why they are even doing the invention system if such a "small" portion of the community is even interested in pvp. You don't need the stuff we saw from the leaked invention system to be successful in pve. It would be like using a formula 1 race car to go to the market. The only people that are going to really care about putting the time and effort into getting an edge in this game through the invention system is pvpers.
[/ QUOTE ]
PvEers will be just as interested if not more than PvPers. Personally, I'm going to be looking for the most ridiculously broken combination of Inventions I can so that they can get nerfed and I can complain about it. 
I think you believe this, because to you PvE is just a means to an end. It's not the game to you, it's a roadblock to PvP.
[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree. If you can't succeed in PvE easily at this point then somethings wrong. The supposed hardest thing in the game, as per Positron, is the Lord Recluse Strike Force, and now that is easily accomplished. Do you really need to add an element of psychic damage to your attacks to help with pve? It might give you more PvE things you need to do to get them, but their advantages will really not be that apparent until you use them in PvP.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You should take your own advice. One of the first things they teach you about in statistics is about sample size. The second thing they teach you is how to take an objective survey and not color it with prejudices. No one is convinced of your arguments because you clearly have an agenda and no matter what kind of pseudo-scientific stuff you come up with, you'll skew the results to suit your ends.
[/ QUOTE ]
I listed my Sample size. 100 players out of 600 or so (Don't have the figures in front of me) Thats a pretty good sample in most peoples book. Is my analasys perfect. Not by a long shot. But it sure as heck beats counting who has the most posts on a forum. THATS what I was responding to.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes for that one instance on that 1 server (or maybe you did 2 servers). In any case MY point was that you can take a small sample size like that and make it look like anything you want. MY sample was taken from the forums, which includes people from ALL of the servers. For your 'sample' to be in any way scientific (not saying mine was), you would have to take the same percentage sized sample for ALL servers and you would have to take the same sample at different times of the day, like 1 hour increments. Also your sample didn't include people in the arena or waiting for an arena match. Your sample is way off if you were trying to use it to show how many people PvP in CoX.
Do I believe there are more people PvPing than PvEing? No! But I do think there are a lot more than you probably think. And there would be even more people PvPing if the Devs did a better job in several areas.
-Fix the Arena
-Fix AT imbalances (I know I know easier said than done)
-Fix imbalances between heroes and villains (i.e. Epic pools vs Patron pools)
-Introduce players to PvP in a much better way. The game does a very poor job preparing new players to PvP, but does an excellent job introducing them to PvE.
- More involvement from the Devs in setting up PvP events. There are several PvE events throughout the year, hardly any (if any) for PvP
Not to mention, several huge PvP SGs left the game recently due to the above facts. Obviously, if PvP didn't have so many problems, they would have most likely stayed and increased the amount of players who PvP.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why not auto-level to 50 on test?
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats really simple... villain epics.
Currently roleplaying, badgehunting, and laughing at the PvPers of CoX. lol, PvP.
Truedusk - Human Rogue
[ QUOTE ]
My apologise for making assumtions about you. I appreciate the civility you have used in this conversation.
While I don't agree with all your points and I am not sure I have expressed mine well enough I will leave your last post with the final words on my points.
Just so you are not left with the wrong impression I do honestly hope PvP can be made to work. My favorite characters tend to be Team oriented Empaths and I have REALLY enjoyed the few occasions when I was in a WELL ballanced PvP match, struggling to keep the team going and being challenged more then 99.9% of the PvE world gives. I would say 1 of my 10 best experiances was in PvP.
[/ QUOTE ]
You. Go Home.
You. Not so smarty.
You. Write too much, this is PvP boards.
You. Must know after i read your first post i disregarded anything you are saying.
You. R NOT SO UBER!
Go Home.
Can I please ask a simple question? At what point do both sides of this pointless argument turn into creative suggestions? Sorry but the devs have given PVP attention, a little thing called RV in I7 should make my point. So, there is a commitment by them to the PVP crowd. Now we need to figure out what is broken and what should be fixed, in priorities.
I am not a BIG PVPer but I do go in at least once a week and find I love the heightened anxiety of being in the zones great fun. I don't know all the issues the hardcore PVPers are encountering but it seems the #1 issue is PVP balance. This also would be the most difficult to address because you say balance and PVE people yell NERF! I love to hear some creative ideas.
I long for new content, like most others. At some point the new issue march is going to need a pause while the devs/designers concentrate completely on the bugs. Arena is broke so bad that maybe they should consider closing it until they fix it. Instead of putting a terminal in Pocket D to expose more users to it's flaws and frustrations. Also, the fixes should not come in one large "bombs away" they should be immediately released after testing. This way the fixes are coming quickly to the community and not every 4 months. Love the new content but the devs need to get there hands around the bugs with a bit more information in regards to ETA's on there fixes.
I feel the devs have committed to PVP but now they should show good faith and start to address it's problems.
Flame on!
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Did you see the test of RV when there was auto-leveling to 40? PvP still draws plenty of support, WHEN IT WORKS.
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No, Unfortunately I missed it
How many players were on and how long did it last?
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Just so this all doesn't sound like tossing yourself into the fire...
The test RV event was very fun, and absolutely HUGE. If I remember correctly, I saw over 30 instances of RV listed as FULL (which I think is 200 players, correct me if I'm wrong) and there were several more besides.
If that particular event is any indication, than the PvP events would have HUGE turnouts, and even better turnout and popularity if PvP was more attractive for regular usage.
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I have to question this. If the TEST event had not enabled auto leveling to 40 would it have attracted as many people? I think people were there more to see what some other sets at lvl 40 play like. What if it had been a PVE test, with everyone lvled to 40? Would it have had the same turnout. I don't know but I have a feeling it would have. I think people came out more for the idea of getting to see what their low level character at 40 is than the PVP.
But it's just my opinion and I could be wrong.
Also /signed on the need for PVP fixes.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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I don't think the events attendance was in anyway a measure of the player audiences demand for PvP..
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The term is 'in any way, shape, or form' in which you have summarily shot yourself in the foot. You're in fact saying, that because a new PvP zone came out and that there were 30 instances of it, it was by no stretch of the imagination an indicator of the folks that were interested in PvP. This is like walking into a meth lab and saying that they don't make drugs here.
200 players per instance, 30 instances, 15$ a month, 2 years = $2,160,000.00. Unless that is your monthly salary, I think a little more than a few hours a week can justify that 'asset' to alot of people.
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I argue with his language too. It's overgeneralizing too much. But the point still stands.
Would the event have generated the same level of attention if it did not include an auto level to 40? Not saying it wouldn't have generated a lot of peeps (Hell the vet rewards filled TEST when they came out) but realistically would it have generated so many instances if it was just a "bring your character to TEST to test pvp" event with no auto leveling and free enhancements?
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Can I please ask a simple question? At what point do both sides of this pointless argument turn into creative suggestions? Sorry but the devs have given PVP attention, a little thing called RV in I7 should make my point. So, there is a commitment by them to the PVP crowd. Now we need to figure out what is broken and what should be fixed, in priorities.
I am not a BIG PVPer but I do go in at least once a week and find I love the heightened anxiety of being in the zones great fun. I don't know all the issues the hardcore PVPers are encountering but it seems the #1 issue is PVP balance. This also would be the most difficult to address because you say balance and PVE people yell NERF! I love to hear some creative ideas.
I long for new content, like most others. At some point the new issue march is going to need a pause while the devs/designers concentrate completely on the bugs. Arena is broke so bad that maybe they should consider closing it until they fix it. Instead of putting a terminal in Pocket D to expose more users to it's flaws and frustrations. Also, the fixes should not come in one large "bombs away" they should be immediately released after testing. This way the fixes are coming quickly to the community and not every 4 months. Love the new content but the devs need to get there hands around the bugs with a bit more information in regards to ETA's on there fixes.
I feel the devs have committed to PVP but now they should show good faith and start to address it's problems.
Flame on!
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I agree. They need to fix what is there. NOT add more. Putting arena terminals in Pocket D while not fixing the arena bugs is arena pvp suicide. Heh, you think peeps are turned off right now, wait till they meet the arena bugs. lol
But seriously, how about some suggestions about what things to fix. And we should focus on try broken things.
I'll start:
1-Fix the arena bugs. Nuff said.
2-Open PPPs to heros and APPs to villans. Or brings PPPs up to the lvl of PPPs. NO nerfs. Buff!
3-Put in a counter inspiration for BFs.
4-NO nerfs. Buffs to powersets that are lagging in PVP. (Make it a PVP-only buff if need be. We know they can do that already. i.e. Hurricane.
New one: 5-make pvp missions where heros and villans can face of in an instanced mission with objectives. (This has been suggested repeatedly, but I've never seen a red name comment on it.)
Ok discuss, contradict, suggest away.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
There were 30 instances of RV, 3 instances of GV. 1/10th of the players left the PvP zone to look at their level 40 build in PvE.
*shrug* I really don't think this is going to convince you because you already have your bigotry in place, but I'm stating the obvious here. You'll only hear what you want to hear and draw only conclusions that you want to believe.
Uhh I just wanted to say I really like Lady Sadako and I totally support her candidacy for miss president. : D
Also.. I wanted to share a little story:
Matrix Online (I know I know, it's not CoH, but like CoH it started primarily as a PvE game and then developed pvp over time) had an entire large-scale update addressing power imbalances in pvp. This took them about 2 years from launch to fully realize and implement.
After it was done, pvp'ers were happier, and almost instantaneously (seriously, like overnight) a ton of new people were flagging and pvping for their first time and enoying it, because there was no more insta-stun 2 shot deaths, and people could actually battle for longer than 3 seconds with just about any build they wanted.
Although lighthouse said there's no near plans to address power balance for the pvp realm, I think it would be a good thing to do eventually.