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I'll start:
1-Fix the arena bugs. Nuff said.
2-Open PPPs to heros and APPs to villans. Or brings PPPs up to the lvl of PPPs. NO nerfs. Buff!
3-Put in a counter inspiration for BFs.
4-NO nerfs. Buffs to powersets that are lagging in PVP. (Make it a PVP-only buff if need be. We know they can do that already. i.e. Hurricane.
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On #3 are your talking about a new class of inspiration that would negate the effects of breakfrees? Going down that road would PVPers maybe prefer that everyone have a limited number of inspiration slots, say one or two rows?
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Going down that road would PVPers maybe prefer that everyone have a limited number of inspiration slots, say one or two rows?
[/ QUOTE ] That won't do anything.. folks will just zone out more often to pickup more breakfrees. Maybe the inspirations you buy outside of the zone can't be used inside the zone, so you would have to cash in bounty or have the vendor charge prestige/10x infamy-influence to use the in-zone ones.
What about flat-out disabling inspirations in the PVP zones?
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fix the arena fix the arena fix the arena.
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Here you come with a stupid name like Fixer - brutalkillz_
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You may have missed the second method I used for determining PvP useage listed in my origional post.
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A Random Sampling of 100 Characters in Atlas Steel and Talos turned up only 6 with PvP Ratings and none over 8.2 ranking. Based on this Data I would conclude that PvPrs make up less then 7% of the game and hard core PvPers probably less then 2% of the game.
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I went out and gathered a little data too.
In a recent search on Freedom, 54% of the Heroes in the three zones you mentioned are level 14 or less, thus by definition cannot have a PVP rating.
So applied to your numbers quoted above, we're now up to over 14% casual and 4% hard core PVPers. But there are yet further factors limiting the apparent size of the PVP population under your method.
-- Lots of PVPers use the /hide command and will not appear on your lists. While you could try doing a visual survey of a PVP zone and count the people not appearing on that zone's /whoall, this would miss the PVPers who are doing PVE stuff - leveling, farming, working on accolades for their 6th or 7th alt, socializing, talking trash on the Arena channel, etc. Due to its nature it's difficult to accurately project percentage of players on /hide at any given time.
-- Your method doesn't really address the question of alts. When a player is on a character with a low PVP rating, there is no telling whether they have other characters who rank higher.
-- Reputation is a problematic measure, as well. Given its decay, a player could do a fair amount of PVP (say 3-8 hours a week) and still have very low or zero rep. Even more of an issue the fewer kills the player gets.
Please do not misinterpret this as a personal attack. I think it's great that you're approaching this question analytically. But in the absence of a player survey tool, getting a handle on PVP demographics is a slippery business.
Let's explore a different inexact, semi-arbitrary way of considering this question: post stats on the official forum. The PVP General forum has more posts than any of the Villain-specific AT boards, and comes in ahead of Defenders and Controllers as well. PVP General traffic is nearly double that of the Badges and Gladiators forum. If we can assume for the moment that PVPers post no more nor less per capita than non-PVPers (hrm, maybe not, but let's go with it for now) this paints a very different picture of PVP interest, even at this late date after quite a few PVPers have left.
Frankly, if PVPers could rate on a par with an average AT in terms of Dev attention, that would be great. The state of the Arena is pretty much like saying to Tankers, "Oh, Battle Axe? That set doesn't work. Well, you can take it, but about one time in four you fire off an Axe attack, the game will just crash."
You don't get what i'm saying. I'm not saying the pvp wasn't fun. I'm trying to ask a logical question.
And you didn't answer my question. If it had been stated that this was just a grand test of pvp on the TEST server without the lvl 40 insta level and free enhancements would you have seen those 30 instances?
I'll ask it in another way. If the reason we saw those huge instances was because of the PVP and not the insta-lvl 40, how come TEST isn't like that right now? I mean the only change is that there isn't an insta-lvl 40, but the PVP still remains on TEST. So what's the difference Manchuwook? I'm asking you honestly. If the pvp was the reason that event was so popular why isn't TEST like that RIGHT NOW?
Could it be that those peeps in the 30 instances found out how imablanced really is and that's why regular TEST isn't like that? Well I would expect there to be at least 5 instances if that were the case right? Is that how TEST is RIGHT NOW though? If not, then why is that? And which was more important to people, the PVP or the insta-lvl 40? Cause that insta lvl 40 code is the only thing missing on TEST right now.
EDIT: Oh and since I'm such a bigot I guess all my post about fixing the Arena and my suggestions to fix pvp show how much I hate pvp. Logic for the loss. 
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
I personally wouldn't mind this.
But from responses from other threads about simply putting a cooldown period on inspirations, I'd say there would be many people that would put up a hissy fit about not being able to use inspirations in the zones.
Also how would you justify being able to use them in the arena and not in a pvp zone?
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
I think the work around for the arena would be an option to turn inspirations on or off for each match.
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It makes me wonder why they are even doing the invention system if such a "small" portion of the community is even interested in pvp. You don't need the stuff we saw from the leaked invention system to be successful in pve. It would be like using a formula 1 race car to go to the market. The only people that are going to really care about putting the time and effort into getting an edge in this game through the invention system is pvpers.
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PvEers will be just as interested if not more than PvPers. Personally, I'm going to be looking for the most ridiculously broken combination of Inventions I can so that they can get nerfed and I can complain about it.
I think you believe this, because to you PvE is just a means to an end. It's not the game to you, it's a roadblock to PvP.
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I disagree. If you can't succeed in PvE easily at this point then somethings wrong. The supposed hardest thing in the game, as per Positron, is the Lord Recluse Strike Force, and now that is easily accomplished. Do you really need to add an element of psychic damage to your attacks to help with pve? It might give you more PvE things you need to do to get them, but their advantages will really not be that apparent until you use them in PvP.
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See, succeeding in the meager tasks the devs have set out isn't necessarily our goal. Once upon a time, there were builds that could have stood against the final mission of the LRSF solo.
One of the things that PvPers say a lot is that there's no challenge in PvE. Well that's because you don't look for challenge. Can you solo a TF, including the AV at the end? Can you solo a Giant Monster? Those things can be done. And it's a hell of a lot harder than taking some pimped out build into PvP.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I think the work around for the arena would be an option to turn inspirations on or off for each match.
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And then you'd get the posts and questions "why can't i do that in open zones." To me it seems people would expect inspirations to be usable in an open zone as oppossed to the arena, where both parties can agree to turn the off. Me, I wouldn't mind if you had the option to turn them off in either setting. Yes, I know this would be harder to implement in the open zones--perhaps have to instances of each pvp zone? One tagged insp allowed, and another tagged NO insp allowed?
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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I think the work around for the arena would be an option to turn inspirations on or off for each match.
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And then you'd get the posts and questions "why can't i do that in open zones." To me it seems people would expect inspirations to be usable in an open zone as oppossed to the arena, where both parties can agree to turn the off. Me, I wouldn't mind if you had the option to turn them off in either setting. Yes, I know this would be harder to implement in the open zones--perhaps have to instances of each pvp zone? One tagged insp allowed, and another tagged NO insp allowed?
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I think getting an option in the arena is a no-brainer, the matches can be setup either on or off. In an open zone it does get more complex. If you get two parties to "turn them off" you will undoubtedly have people who have them on showing up and screwing up the fight.
In an open zone which is consider the worst inspiration? The breakfrees? Maybe limit everyone to two breakfrees in addition to creating a static number of inspiration slots everyone gets?
I'm sorry, I should have specified names... It wasn't directly at you, Darq, it was a quick reply.
Test doesn't have high pop PvP zones because Test doesn't have high pop PvP zones. Folks don't go because other folks don't go. If there isn't anyone to fight, no one will stay and wait. When you get 15 zones worth of people, folks will want to fill that zone to get even more because there is (finally) opponents there... PvP zones are one of the cases where you *have* to have people in them, the inverse of the regular zones.
I think it is exactly why there were 30 RVs and not so much that folks 'got free 40s and free enhancements.' Although, it was a good chance for Alt'ers to see what a 40 is like, they would have at least *tried* to leave the zone if they abhorred PvP that much. Not a lot tried, though.
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One of the things that PvPers say a lot is that there's no challenge in PvE. Well that's because you don't look for challenge. Can you solo a TF, including the AV at the end? Can you solo a Giant Monster? Those things can be done. And it's a hell of a lot harder than taking some pimped out build into PvP.
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Not really. I think most PvPers like to PvP because it is a challenge to face a thinking opponent.
AV's, Giant Monsters, etc are 'hard' not because they are 'challenging' but because they have huge amounts of HP or damage or regen. They are still scripted and will perform the same way each time. A human opponent on the other hand will not. Therein lies the challenge and fun and excitement of PvP.
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One of the things that PvPers say a lot is that there's no challenge in PvE. Well that's because you don't look for challenge. Can you solo a TF, including the AV at the end? Can you solo a Giant Monster? Those things can be done. And it's a hell of a lot harder than taking some pimped out build into PvP.
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Not really. I think most PvPers like to PvP because it is a challenge to face a thinking opponent.
AV's, Giant Monsters, etc are 'hard' not because they are 'challenging' but because they have huge amounts of HP or damage or regen. They are still scripted and will perform the same way each time. A human opponent on the other hand will not. Therein lies the challenge and fun and excitement of PvP.
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In my experience, PvPers are tediously predictable.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Solo, sure. I can see that.
Teamed, whole 'nother kettle of fish.
ACK! Quick reply strikes again! 
Hmmm, I think I see your point.
but then my question is what does it take to get high pop pvp zones? I would argue that if you had that insta lvl 40 thing on live you might see high pop. So then it goes back to the old "can we please have a pvp and pve build" which sadly the devs seem to ignore. 
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
I put in a suggestion on that section about cross-server PvP zones... hopefully they'll read it. For balancing out with PvE so they don't feel left out, I say cross-over Pocket D, Shadow Shard, and maybe a lowbie zone, too. I can't remember the song or group (Soul Asylum?) "Nothing draws a crowd - Like a crowd." You mush the servers together on certain connection points, you will have some extremely popular zones... PvP benefitting the most, for sure, but all-in-all -- everyone wins.
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One of the things that PvPers say a lot is that there's no challenge in PvE. Well that's because you don't look for challenge. Can you solo a TF, including the AV at the end? Can you solo a Giant Monster? Those things can be done. And it's a hell of a lot harder than taking some pimped out build into PvP.
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Not really. I think most PvPers like to PvP because it is a challenge to face a thinking opponent.
AV's, Giant Monsters, etc are 'hard' not because they are 'challenging' but because they have huge amounts of HP or damage or regen. They are still scripted and will perform the same way each time. A human opponent on the other hand will not. Therein lies the challenge and fun and excitement of PvP.
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In my experience, PvPers are tediously predictable.
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In what way?
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Well that's because you don't look for challenge. Can you solo a TF, including the AV at the end?
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Yep
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Can you solo a Giant Monster?
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Nope, I don't have anything that fotm
PvE isn't not challenging because I'm so ubber super duper dandy that I can 2-shot anything and never get hit, its because mobs are computers, computers are given different ways that they can think, over time their ways of thinking become easily recognizable, hence I know what they'll do before they do it.
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One of the things that PvPers say a lot is that there's no challenge in PvE. Well that's because you don't look for challenge. Can you solo a TF, including the AV at the end? Can you solo a Giant Monster? Those things can be done. And it's a hell of a lot harder than taking some pimped out build into PvP.
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Not really. I think most PvPers like to PvP because it is a challenge to face a thinking opponent.
AV's, Giant Monsters, etc are 'hard' not because they are 'challenging' but because they have huge amounts of HP or damage or regen. They are still scripted and will perform the same way each time. A human opponent on the other hand will not. Therein lies the challenge and fun and excitement of PvP.
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In my experience, mindless fotm/nub-only PvPers are tediously predictable.
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In what way?
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His post makes sense now, I fixed it.
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There were 30 instances of RV, 3 instances of GV. 1/10th of the players left the PvP zone to look at their level 40 build in PvE.
*shrug* I really don't think this is going to convince you because you already have your bigotry in place, but I'm stating the obvious here. You'll only hear what you want to hear and draw only conclusions that you want to believe.
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Being able to sneak out was a bug, that many didn't know about....curious where 10% came from btw....? Why is RV now like a morgue at 11 pm on Friday night?
I am sure that many people came to check out a new zone, some to PvP - and I wouldn't care the slightest iota if 99% came to PvP - but I really doubt you would have seen 1/4 that # were it not for the ability to have an instant 40 - which was the main reason the dozens of people I knew who went did - PvP was an extra.
Convenient to label anyone who disagrees with you as myopic - but it seems you are the one blinded by your bias. Like the label you gave me, and I have probably 40+ hours of active PvP zone time (aka non camping and mishes.)
Because there are alot of people who don't spend their fridays at 11 PM in a PvP zone and the live servers are all at best 1/10 the population of test...
Also; they only said directly that only RV would be accessible on the European forums, and I'm sure less people read those than people who knew about being able to exit to Grandville and Atlas...
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And you didn't answer my question. If it had been stated that this was just a grand test of pvp on the TEST server without the lvl 40 insta level and free enhancements would you have seen those 30 instances?
I'll ask it in another way. If the reason we saw those huge instances was because of the PVP and not the insta-lvl 40, how come TEST isn't like that right now? I mean the only change is that there isn't an insta-lvl 40, but the PVP still remains on TEST. So what's the difference Manchuwook? I'm asking you honestly. If the pvp was the reason that event was so popular why isn't TEST like that RIGHT NOW?
Could it be that those peeps in the 30 instances found out how imablanced really is and that's why regular TEST isn't like that? Well I would expect there to be at least 5 instances if that were the case right? Is that how TEST is RIGHT NOW though? If not, then why is that? And which was more important to people, the PVP or the insta-lvl 40? Cause that insta lvl 40 code is the only thing missing on TEST right now.
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How about this question "Would your view of world politics change if you were of a different gender?". Ehh, who knows. What we do know is what happened during the event that took place. You can cast doubt on the interpretation of that data if you wish, but what happened is fact. Is test not as popular because of this code being removed or because there is no event going on? I don't know. Is it because there is no new PvP zone to try out? I don't know.
From the testimony that I have heard many people enjoyed that they could create a toon and try out PvP. They had a good time and they never PvP. A big part of it is that it didn't take them 300hours to level up the toon to go PvP. Also, if their first creation was a dud they could create another idea and try that out. Now given that is a small sample size so you can apply it to a group.
In the cases that I mentioned above people enjoyed the event for many reasons:
- Chance to test out character concepts
- Lots of people in a PvP zone to play against
- A new zone to try out
As a feature is improved more people will start to utilize that feature. Doesn't that make sense?
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Because there are alot of people who don't spend their fridays at 11 PM in a PvP zone and the live servers are all at best 1/10 the population of test...
Also; they only said directly that only RV would be accessible on the European forums, and I'm sure less people read those than people who knew about being able to exit to Grandville and Atlas...
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Actually I kinda figured it would be only RV when I read the description of the event. It would be kind of dumb on the DEVs part to give everyone insta 40s to test out a new zone, if those insta testing only characters could totally avoid the zone they were meant to test.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
fix the arena fix the arena fix the arena.