[ QUOTE ]
*Add this to the quote:
The place to start would be tanks in my opinion, take a look at the tank sets in general. All the Defensive sets work a little differently but yet all have their strengths and weaknesses and can be made viable in PVP with little or no tweaking at this point..in essence they have achieved relative balance although clearly they are very different in the way they function.
Now look at the offensive side of tanks and this is where the devs just dont get it..with tanks there is really only 1 PVP set and its EM, the massive burst damage in a less resisted type + heavy Stuns = victory. The other sets lag very far behind in some cases they are completly non existent because they suck so friggen bad when compared to energy.
[/ QUOTE ]
So then they should buff the other sets. But as history shows this may not be the choice they make.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
We have more to complain about than badgers do. We also have to come up wtih 100% more workarounds than badgers do.
[/ QUOTE ]
In point of fact, a great number of the threads in the Badges forum revolve around how to game the system to work around a high or difficult to meet badge requirement by doing silly things like damage farming.
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I think balance within ATs is achievable to a decent degree, see my post.
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I've seen your post and I still don't have faith that THIS DEV team can do it. No offense to the DEVs, are think they are the most amazing group of programmers, artists and the like that I have ever seen. But their lack of PVP experience shows.
And their past changes (and they way there were done) do not give me much faith.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, I see your point. But another point of this thread is to help them realize what they're doing wrong.
[/ QUOTE ]
Provided they intend to focus on PVP anytime soon.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
I don't think the Arena terminals are there just for decoration.
OOPS, There = Pocket D
[ QUOTE ]
Well.. 2 things of late:
Domination builds faster and gets a buff based on teammates.. not exactly a generally desired buff.. but a change without making numbers lower or less effective
Brutes -- okay.. not getting my hopes up -- _Castle_ at one point said paraphrased, we might have an answer, give us at least 2 weeks about Fury being busted in PvP.
Two positive things for Villains. I think they are to the point where they are at their lowest. Inventions has the potential to be a buff (unbalancing, definitely) but once again, not a decrease in numbers nor a diminishing on a self-effecting basis.
[/ QUOTE ]
The thing is inventions are buffing EVERYONE. Heroes and villans. So how is it making villans closer to heroes if the heroes are getting the buffs too. They should actually look at BUFFING villans and their PPPs.
And not nerfing heroes.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
ED was put in place for the future potential of Inventions. They probably have some ideas for balance in the next 6 months, we just get dead silence about what they are going to do about it.
Yeah, inventions and there uslessness in balancing anything's been mentioned, yet I know they'll be pushed live doing nothing good.
(in fact one situation where it'll most likely increase inbalance is a blaster versus dominator i.e. I 2-shot you SO easy now, and you can break one of my break frees easy now, but lawlz you won't have time)
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Balance will never be found in this game. They should FIRST focus on arena, base raids, etc. Fixing the mechanics. Then try to get to balance later. I would say after I9's inventions. Trying to get balance now while that potentially pvp game breaking additon is right around the corner would be developer time managment suicide.
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Yeah, it just seems to me that less people would be receptive to changes meant to improve balance in a broken system. Fix the system first, get people using it, and then they'll have more support for balance changes when they happen.
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ED was put in place for the future potential of Inventions. They probably have some ideas for balance in the next 6 months, we just get dead silence about what they are going to do about it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Good point! For all we know Inventions (and whatever it is Lighthouse keeps alluding to) may change both the PVE and PVP games towards further balance.
EDIT: Also I know what they say about ED. But from the previews what they have there doesn't seem like anything that would have required ED. I can think of numerous ways that what they are going for (provided that that's all that will be there--which very unlikely) without ED. Remains to be seen if ED was actually needed for invtentions to work or not.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ED was put in place for the future potential of Inventions. They probably have some ideas for balance in the next 6 months, we just get dead silence about what they are going to do about it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Good point! For all we know Inventions (and whatever it is Lighthouse keeps alluding to) may change both the PVE and PVP games towards further balance.
EDIT: Also I know what they say about ED. But from the previews what they have there doesn't seem like anything that would have required ED. I can think of numerous ways that what they are going for (provided that that's all that will be there--which very unlikely) without ED. Remains to be seen if ED was actually needed for invtentions to work or not.
[/ QUOTE ]
Also now that I think about it if inventions get us back to the whole 5 damage and 1 acc old days, (or even close enough to 4 damage, 1 acc) I need to ask what the hell was the point of of insituting ED?
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
It's funny I've argued both sides of this before. Both the "it doesn't make sense to spend on pvp" and "pvp needs attention"
The RV event was huge. I remember a ton of pvp occuring during it too. When I was logging on there was over 20 instances and most of those were "full". I know all the ones I got into were rank with pvp and very little pve occuring.
RV is dead on live though 
How many instances of faultline are there right now on test. When I checked it out there was 1 and it was no where near full. And it IS the main feature of i8 imo (before they stuck in vet rewards a week or so later).
I'm honestly in the "if you build it they will come" camp. Have the previous attempts at implementing pvp been failures? ya, kinda, but that's because the dev's screwed it up imo, not because of a lack of interest.
If the pvp population isn't significant enough to warrant attention then one could question why a zone that according to my surveys has less than 2 people in it at any given time, would be completely overhauled with new art and tech (cause a bunch of cov stuff is on that map now). I know that took a lot of time and given the amount of 15-25 content already in coh that zone will likely be sparsely populated in the future as well. Is that a waste of resources?
Grandville is a graveyard most of the time and a ton of marketing and resources went into that zone. Waste?
I agree 100% that pvp is an advertised (quite heavily too) feature of this game and should be given attention soley on that principle. Does it make sense from a business perspective? Not immediately no. But if a dev supported event like the auto level rv event can pull in upward of 20-30 zone instances (most full) I would say it has potential to attract new customers. Cause lets face it pve in this game isn't attracting many new people anymore and it will only get worse as the next gen mmo's start comming out. But pvp is a unique marketing tool and coh is a unique gaming environment. The combination of the two could prove successful. WITH SUPPORT.
Frosticus
[ QUOTE ]
It's funny I've argued both sides of this before. Both the "it doesn't make sense to spend on pvp" and "pvp needs attention"
The RV event was huge. I remember a ton of pvp occuring during it too. When I was logging on there was over 20 instances and most of those were "full". I know all the ones I got into were rank with pvp and very little pve occuring.
RV is dead on live though
How many instances of faultline are there right now on test. When I checked it out there was 1 and it was no where near full. And it IS the main feature of i8 imo (before they stuck in vet rewards a week or so later).
I'm honestly in the "if you build it they will come" camp. Have the previous attempts at implementing pvp been failures? ya, kinda, but that's because the dev's screwed it up imo, not because of a lack of interest.
If the pvp population isn't significant enough to warrant attention then one could question why a zone that according to my surveys has less than 2 people in it at any given time, would be completely overhauled with new art and tech (cause a bunch of cov stuff is on that map now). I know that took a lot of time and given the amount of 15-25 content already in coh that zone will likely be sparsely populated in the future as well. Is that a waste of resources?
Grandville is a graveyard most of the time and a ton of marketing and resources went into that zone. Waste?
I agree 100% that pvp is an advertised (quite heavily too) feature of this game and should be given attention soley on that principle. Does it make sense from a business perspective? Not immediately no. But if a dev supported event like the auto level rv event can pull in upward of 20-30 zone instances (most full) I would say it has potential to attract new customers. Cause lets face it pve in this game isn't attracting many new people anymore and it will only get worse as the next gen mmo's start comming out. But pvp is a unique marketing tool and coh is a unique gaming environment. The combination of the two could prove successful. WITH SUPPORT.
Frosticus
[/ QUOTE ]
/QFT.
I for one would like to see em fix stuff before adding anything else.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
I'd like to see them fix stuff and add new stuff, in equal parts. And I when I mean stuff, I mean the stuff they advertised -- ignoring the PvP and PvE party lines. Arenas, PPPs, Mayhem/Safeguard, etc.
[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to see them fix stuff and add new stuff, in equal parts. And I when I mean stuff, I mean the stuff they advertised -- ignoring the PvP and PvE party lines. Arenas, PPPs, Mayhem/Safeguard, etc.
[/ QUOTE ]
The thing is there is just so much developer time to go around. I would like them to add stuff while also fixing stuff all the time, but as I7 and I8 clearly this dev team is not big enough to be improving ALL aspects of the game all the time. Therefore I would rather attend to the most negelected thing first.
In this case IMHO, it would be the bug fixes to Arena and Base raids/Iops/Iop trial.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
In this case IMHO, it would be the bug fixes to Arena and Base raids/Iops/Iop trial.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I agree. Get them working first, then we can talk balance.
I want Super Speeds slow resistance turned down. It is impossible to slot those things
You mean 'stop', right?
[ QUOTE ]
It's funny I've argued both sides of this before. Both the "it doesn't make sense to spend on pvp" and "pvp needs attention"
The RV event was huge. I remember a ton of pvp occuring during it too. When I was logging on there was over 20 instances and most of those were "full". I know all the ones I got into were rank with pvp and very little pve occuring.
RV is dead on live though
How many instances of faultline are there right now on test. When I checked it out there was 1 and it was no where near full. And it IS the main feature of i8 imo (before they stuck in vet rewards a week or so later).
I'm honestly in the "if you build it they will come" camp. Have the previous attempts at implementing pvp been failures? ya, kinda, but that's because the dev's screwed it up imo, not because of a lack of interest.
If the pvp population isn't significant enough to warrant attention then one could question why a zone that according to my surveys has less than 2 people in it at any given time, would be completely overhauled with new art and tech (cause a bunch of cov stuff is on that map now). I know that took a lot of time and given the amount of 15-25 content already in coh that zone will likely be sparsely populated in the future as well. Is that a waste of resources?
Grandville is a graveyard most of the time and a ton of marketing and resources went into that zone. Waste?
I agree 100% that pvp is an advertised (quite heavily too) feature of this game and should be given attention soley on that principle. Does it make sense from a business perspective? Not immediately no. But if a dev supported event like the auto level rv event can pull in upward of 20-30 zone instances (most full) I would say it has potential to attract new customers. Cause lets face it pve in this game isn't attracting many new people anymore and it will only get worse as the next gen mmo's start comming out. But pvp is a unique marketing tool and coh is a unique gaming environment. The combination of the two could prove successful. WITH SUPPORT.
Frosticus
[/ QUOTE ]
just wanted to say: excellent post
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's funny I've argued both sides of this before. Both the "it doesn't make sense to spend on pvp" and "pvp needs attention"
The RV event was huge. I remember a ton of pvp occuring during it too. When I was logging on there was over 20 instances and most of those were "full". I know all the ones I got into were rank with pvp and very little pve occuring.
RV is dead on live though
How many instances of faultline are there right now on test. When I checked it out there was 1 and it was no where near full. And it IS the main feature of i8 imo (before they stuck in vet rewards a week or so later).
I'm honestly in the "if you build it they will come" camp. Have the previous attempts at implementing pvp been failures? ya, kinda, but that's because the dev's screwed it up imo, not because of a lack of interest.
If the pvp population isn't significant enough to warrant attention then one could question why a zone that according to my surveys has less than 2 people in it at any given time, would be completely overhauled with new art and tech (cause a bunch of cov stuff is on that map now). I know that took a lot of time and given the amount of 15-25 content already in coh that zone will likely be sparsely populated in the future as well. Is that a waste of resources?
Grandville is a graveyard most of the time and a ton of marketing and resources went into that zone. Waste?
I agree 100% that pvp is an advertised (quite heavily too) feature of this game and should be given attention soley on that principle. Does it make sense from a business perspective? Not immediately no. But if a dev supported event like the auto level rv event can pull in upward of 20-30 zone instances (most full) I would say it has potential to attract new customers. Cause lets face it pve in this game isn't attracting many new people anymore and it will only get worse as the next gen mmo's start comming out. But pvp is a unique marketing tool and coh is a unique gaming environment. The combination of the two could prove successful. WITH SUPPORT.
Frosticus
[/ QUOTE ]
just wanted to say: excellent post
[/ QUOTE ]
Ditto.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's funny I've argued both sides of this before. Both the "it doesn't make sense to spend on pvp" and "pvp needs attention"
The RV event was huge. I remember a ton of pvp occuring during it too. When I was logging on there was over 20 instances and most of those were "full". I know all the ones I got into were rank with pvp and very little pve occuring.
RV is dead on live though
How many instances of faultline are there right now on test. When I checked it out there was 1 and it was no where near full. And it IS the main feature of i8 imo (before they stuck in vet rewards a week or so later).
I'm honestly in the "if you build it they will come" camp. Have the previous attempts at implementing pvp been failures? ya, kinda, but that's because the dev's screwed it up imo, not because of a lack of interest.
If the pvp population isn't significant enough to warrant attention then one could question why a zone that according to my surveys has less than 2 people in it at any given time, would be completely overhauled with new art and tech (cause a bunch of cov stuff is on that map now). I know that took a lot of time and given the amount of 15-25 content already in coh that zone will likely be sparsely populated in the future as well. Is that a waste of resources?
Grandville is a graveyard most of the time and a ton of marketing and resources went into that zone. Waste?
I agree 100% that pvp is an advertised (quite heavily too) feature of this game and should be given attention soley on that principle. Does it make sense from a business perspective? Not immediately no. But if a dev supported event like the auto level rv event can pull in upward of 20-30 zone instances (most full) I would say it has potential to attract new customers. Cause lets face it pve in this game isn't attracting many new people anymore and it will only get worse as the next gen mmo's start comming out. But pvp is a unique marketing tool and coh is a unique gaming environment. The combination of the two could prove successful. WITH SUPPORT.
Frosticus
[/ QUOTE ]
just wanted to say: excellent post
[/ QUOTE ]
Ditto.
[/ QUOTE ]
agreed
[ QUOTE ]
It's funny I've argued both sides of this before. Both the "it doesn't make sense to spend on pvp" and "pvp needs attention"
The RV event was huge. I remember a ton of pvp occuring during it too. When I was logging on there was over 20 instances and most of those were "full". I know all the ones I got into were rank with pvp and very little pve occuring.
RV is dead on live though
How many instances of faultline are there right now on test. When I checked it out there was 1 and it was no where near full. And it IS the main feature of i8 imo (before they stuck in vet rewards a week or so later).
I'm honestly in the "if you build it they will come" camp. Have the previous attempts at implementing pvp been failures? ya, kinda, but that's because the dev's screwed it up imo, not because of a lack of interest.
If the pvp population isn't significant enough to warrant attention then one could question why a zone that according to my surveys has less than 2 people in it at any given time, would be completely overhauled with new art and tech (cause a bunch of cov stuff is on that map now). I know that took a lot of time and given the amount of 15-25 content already in coh that zone will likely be sparsely populated in the future as well. Is that a waste of resources?
Grandville is a graveyard most of the time and a ton of marketing and resources went into that zone. Waste?
I agree 100% that pvp is an advertised (quite heavily too) feature of this game and should be given attention soley on that principle. Does it make sense from a business perspective? Not immediately no. But if a dev supported event like the auto level rv event can pull in upward of 20-30 zone instances (most full) I would say it has potential to attract new customers. Cause lets face it pve in this game isn't attracting many new people anymore and it will only get worse as the next gen mmo's start comming out. But pvp is a unique marketing tool and coh is a unique gaming environment. The combination of the two could prove successful. WITH SUPPORT.
Frosticus
[/ QUOTE ]
Here here. Good post.
We don't even need to agree what the "support" is. But it seems everyone who's tried PvP agrees that it needs some kind of it.
Frosty has some fan boiz
Frosty made a good point. There has always been this circular argument going all over the PvP boards about why Co* PvP is the way it is.
so heres a question, did u guys ever think of making pvp more than just an option? put some contacts for story arc missions there, so everybody has to go in sometime, after all, heros n villans should have a lil more actual interaction than basic "jump in n kill em". make the zones(pvp) a place u need to go, instead of a place u want to go, like the other zones. just a thought
Well.. 2 things of late:
Domination builds faster and gets a buff based on teammates.. not exactly a generally desired buff.. but a change without making numbers lower or less effective
Brutes -- okay.. not getting my hopes up -- _Castle_ at one point said paraphrased, we might have an answer, give us at least 2 weeks about Fury being busted in PvP.
Two positive things for Villains. I think they are to the point where they are at their lowest. Inventions has the potential to be a buff (unbalancing, definitely) but once again, not a decrease in numbers nor a diminishing on a self-effecting basis.