This is my logical view: 'IF' an enemy were to see through your stealth it should only be the ones you are attacking because they have been alerted to your presence. Other enemies should NOT see you even if 10 seconds has not passed and even if they are 30 ft. away. Also, defense should not be suppressed at any time. Without defense ALL stealth powers are pretty lame and not very useful.
Next HUGE complaint: invisibility powers in the Illusion set ARE used for defense. We don't have the controlling powers that other sets have. We NEED this defense.
i have to agree about the confusion part. it's sort of hard to understand the need or reasoning for this. my best guess...this is meant to create a weakness in stealth powers that defensive toons can compensate for, by providing an additional amount of stealth (specifically a +def that isn't negated by aggro) to a teammate that's not available to that teammate alone? sort of like the idea of melee-ers not able to hit their caps without teammate help? if that's true then i'm personally all for that idea intent-wise. it's just hard to follow when the +def on pool stealth was cut down so much already. 
as far as enemies seeing you or not, it doesn't sound like that's going to change a whole lot...i hope i'm right on that. because if this change means more aggro than before in the same situations then the survivability of less-beefy toons are going to be very sensitive to it. on live, every time i attack with stealth on, my target and most of his buddies aggro anyway (maybe surrounding baddies aggro slower, but i haven't noticed a big difference). i always figured it was because the target fires/swings back and that's always increased the chance of aggroing surrounding baddies regardless of stealth.
i'd just say please be careful with the aggro thing in pve most importantly. the survivability of close to half of the ats/set combos (ie. anything that's not melee) can be affected greatly.
States,
I just have one question... Why? Why this change to stealth type powers and their defense?
Is it because of PvP? If it is, please stop... I don't play PvP nor do I plan to at this time. Also you orginally stated that PvP would not affect PvE, however that doesn't seem to be the case.
I usually do this type of response in PM but I'm sure you are still catching them up and didn't want to add to them.
Wish your brother well...
Mike
I can understand suppression for stealth/invisibility powers but I have some questions...
1. How do you now obtain full defense bonus from these powers? In other words, under what conditions can you now obtain the 7.5% +def bonus for a power like, say, 'Cloaking Device'?
2. If -perception suppression is only PvP, why do villians see you when you attack?
I think I finally figured out the purpose of taking away Steath's stealthiness. There's going to be an AT in City of Villians that's based around combat stealth, and our dear developers didn't think it was fair that other characters in a separate game could do the same thing.
(Of course, six months from CoV's release the Stalker's stealth will also be suppressed in combat, because "We never intended for it to be used that way." Tee hee, those developers are such cards.)
removed
[ QUOTE ]
I think I finally figured out the purpose of taking away Steath's stealthiness. There's going to be an AT in City of Villians that's based around combat stealth, and our dear developers didn't think it was fair that other characters in a separate game could do the same thing.
(Of course, six months from CoV's release the Stalker's stealth will also be suppressed in combat, because "We never intended for it to be used that way." Tee hee, those developers are such cards.)
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually i'm pretty sure the stalker will be rogue like relying on ambush alpha strikes to do his dirty work with stealth then being repressed in the same manner.
On another note why stop at reversing the nerf? Let's just give players who have stealth the ability to attack and kill other villans with no fear of ever being noticed. Make stealth a sort of "noflag" cheat you'd see in a FPS's single player debug mode.
/em sacrasim off 
The only stealth power I really have much experience with is SI from Illusion. (Which, technically, is invisibility and not stealth.) I haven't gotten any of my characters with Stealth a high enough level to really have a feel for how it works.
Personally, I thought the point of Superior Invisibility was that it was the only invis power that worked in combat. Especially given its very high endurance cost--I'm using 2 endurance reduction DO's to be able to use it in combat at all. (She's SL 13. When I get SO's, I still plan on using 2 endurance reducers.) If you think about it, why would an illusionist choose to drop her pretense of invisibility when entering combat?
At the very very least...SI is a HORRIBLE endurance drain. If you're going to make it so much weaker, can we at least have it cost a little less to use?
Other notes...
- Grant Invisibility...that currently falls under the first category, right? Why surpress the defense on something you can't use on yourself?
- Group Invisibility is a primary power too! Granted, it's controller instead of defender, but still.
- I don't know if this was fixed on Test, but last time I checked, the going invis/reappearing sounds played EVERY time I got hit in combat. Which was often enough to make the sounds constant. They're not very pleasant. Distracting, annoying, and gave me a headache.
- If our stealth powers are getting suppressed, I sure hope the villains are having the same problems. (Especially the Knives...)
- My ill/emp controller can't solo Heroic on Live, much less on Test, without taking several hours per mission and racking up some impressive hospital bills. Her powers recharge too slowly--I can't keep a group of whites pinned long enough to not kill me as I arrest them. (Spectral Wounds is 1 acc/4 dam, Blind is 1 acc/2 hold, Flash is 2 acc/1hold. Other powers are heal other, healing aura, SI (too draining for lengthy combat), recall friend, and swift.) Now, arguably, I could have taken Hasten and Decieve instead of some of the others. But I actually respecced OUT of Hasten because it was too endurance draining. And I'd rather have the powers I've got and take Deceive later.
Finally...my illusion controller was the first controller that I ever liked enough to get above level 5. But the stealth changes combined with the general controller changes makes me just want to shelve her, or delete her, and never try a controller again.
I think this change is not fun, having tried it some on test.
Having the Stealth suppress for *10 seconds*? Sheesh. IF you have to keep the unfun suppression mechanism, why not make it 4 seconds, like the travel powers? 10 seconds can be a very long time.
Also, 1) I still don't like movement suppression, as it breaks immersion and is just plain not fun after a few months of using it, but hey, it's more "fair" to the mobs, I guess... who can, say, if we're seen by a sniper, INSTANTLY and with almost unerring accuracy hit us as an alpha volley - which will be even worse in Update 5 by the way... no, I don't PVP. Bleah. Hunt-the-squishy was not my idea of a good time.
and 2) I think that chopping the +def you get, but then giving us the "bone" of allowing us to have half of the relative pittance you left in the powers, is unproductive at best. Either leave the entire halved amount, or just dump the +def entirely. 3% def is really not worth slotting, in my view.
I am in no way going to be slotting Stealth, Cloak of Darkness, Cloaking Device, or Group Invis for defense on any toon that can take them.
Which, I suppose, is what you are going for - as you considered not being hit to be what made defenders (empaths, presumably) feel unwanted in the high-end game, if I had to take a guess as to why defense is getting a global, ah, adjustment downwards, in Update 5.
Well, if everyone is hit more often, you will probably get your wish - healers get more of a workout with the healing powers throughout the game - and teams that can't find a healer will have to work harder to find one, or do without.
Back to Stealth suppression and one of my major peeves with this update. Having it so that if you're hit or hit anyone -- INCLUDING with an -agro/perception power like Smoke, Smoke Grenade, or Flash Arrow - *instantly* drops all stealth powers you have - often before the -agro/-perception of the power kicks in. So in trying to make it so the mobs can't see you - they instantly see you if you were too close to begin with?
Does that make ANY sense at all? It really doesn't to me.
I would ask that you reconsider AT LEAST having -agro powers ... NOT CAUSE YOU TO BE SIGHT AGRO'D by the mobs by simply activating the power. That's just plain not fun.
It forces me to be EXTREMELY cautious about having all mobs Smoked, PLUS remember to wait at least 10 seconds to have my "basic" stealth kick back in, whenever I toss a Smoke Grenade. It's irritating and breaks immersion.
$.02
Currently: 50s (5), 40s (3), 30s (5)
Red and blue side, mostly Infinity, Virtue, and Freedom.
(This is all leading up to a suggestion, so if you skim it, scroll down to the end.) 
1) 10 seconds is way too long. It seems to me many combats don't last much past ten seconds. It's also not thematic - I don't think I could track an invisible person for ten seconds because he fired once.
2) In terms of defenders, the power change is going to be most punitive for those who deal damage, so this is going to hurt offenders and debuffers more than buffbots or healers. Many defenders are already under peer pressure now to shut up and heal. This may make things worse.
3) At least Superior Invisibility should be considered a primary stealth power. This would help differentiate it from Group Invisibility. However, the permanent suppression of the click invisibility from GI has its own problem. The defensive bonus was its primary appeal. With that advantage diluted, this power may become more of a rarity.
On top of the above mechanistic objections and speaking in terms of comics theme, I understand the idea of a person concealed revealing himself when he attacks, but this is not universally the case in comics. The Invisible Woman does not become translucent when she fires; when Batman pops out of nowhere to smack a guy, he disappears again just as fast. If we're going with a comic theme, one or two seconds is more in tune with the genre. You know where the hidden character was right when they fired; after that, they could be anywhere.
So here's my suggestion. Make the suppression effect breakable by motion. You fire, you reveal where you are. You move... they don't know where you are anymore. Simple as that.
[ QUOTE ]
It makes sense your seen if you attacked while stealthed. A good amount of the time in movies and heck, maybe real life someday 
If you attack while stealthed, your enemy knows where you are. Stealth is not PERFECTLY invisible. Its meant to where you can stand close and initiate an attack or 2 before they get a chance to fireback
[/ QUOTE ]
Superior Invisibility *is* perfectly invisible. It makes zip zilch zero sense, and really makes the endurance hit of this power exceedingly rude.
The most significant effects of the I4 change to Sup Invis, and the reasons it has such a huge endurance cost, was the fact that it gave you the ability to attack a single minion without aggroing his friends (unless the minion died in their zone of course), and it provided a HUGE defense buff. Before I4, almost noone took Sup Invis as a power. If it suppresses on attack, again it will become a worthlessly redundant power to Group Invisibility.
Thanks for a year of an excellent game, States. My billing has already been cancelled (expires Aug 16) as a response to the downward spiral of Nerfs from the last 3 Updates, I just hang around hoping maybe someone will bring you to your senses. Noone wants to FEAR an update to their game. 
Give me a buzz if the game I used to play ever comes back.
The suppression of stealth and stealth like powers in PvE is nonsensical for me overall, but my specific beef is with stealth powers in the blaster devices secondary.
1. Smoke grenade because of a change made late in issue 4 now counts an attack, and will suppress both the stealth in cloaking device and super speed. Because of stealth suppression, you can smoke grenade a mob (not attack it with a regular attack) and then move to another mob and be seen and attacked. That's borked. Further, the suppression for stealth kicks in much earlier than many of the animations. If you move your blaster in the middle of a mob with cloaking device and super speed running, you were in effect invisible unless you attack. Now, in the middle of the mob, throw a smoke grenade, and you will be attacked even before the smoke grenade animation finishes because the suppression of stealth hits so early.
2. The suppression of stealth really reduces the devices secondary and you will see many players take targeting drone and trip mine and nothing else. Statesman, I thought your goal for blasters was to see eventual improvement in the secondaries. If this sort of nerfing continues, then you will have only succeeded in creating a secondary like the blaster fire manipulation which is often called the blaster power pool secondary - no one takes anything in that secondary except for the obligatory first power and build up.
3. As it stands right now, there is not enough advantage to take cloaking device over stealth. With cloaking device, you get to not take a pool power and avoid the movement penalty. With the introduction of suppression, the lack of a movement penalty is no longer an advantage! Also, with stealth, you can take several powers like invisibility and phase shift which are very useful for both PvE and PvP. I thought your vision was to make secondary powers better than pool powers. Currently, with cloaking device, it is not.
FF
I would also like to chime in that Stealth and Hover were the only defenses available for non-Melee ATs outside of the Fighting Pool. I would hate to see the Fighting pool become required if you want any defense in combat.
Now I do see the problem with having these powers stack with Tank/Scrapper powers. What I would perfer would be if the suppression only applied to Tanks/Scrappers if that is what is felt necessary for balance.
I don't see a Blaster/etc even with Stealth maxed out being overpowered defensively but even that could be tweaked. Now possibly Stealth + Hover + Weave is too much so make the various pools not stack if you must. That is power pool defenses don't stack you get the best defense, you can activate multiple, for their other effects (stealth, hover) but you only get defense from 1.
Just don't take all defense away from the non-melee characters. Power Pools are quickly becoming unattractive. I actually am building characters where I don't see the point in picking a 4th pool and sometimes even a 3rd pool anymore because after Stamina, Travel and Haste the desirablity of powers drops considerably in I5.
----------------------------
You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
[ QUOTE ]
So here's my suggestion. Make the suppression effect breakable by motion. You fire, you reveal where you are. You move... they don't know where you are anymore. Simple as that.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is the only compromise I see... if the changes as described by Statesman go in for things such as Cloaking Device, they really are a useless power.
My blaster with cloaking is hardly an unbeatable foe. It's in the blaster line, why is it being grouped with all the other stealth changes to bring down those who it overpowers?
Show some creativity, please....
[ QUOTE ]
The stealth changes perhaps make the least sense of any of the I5 changes we have seen so far.
It doesn't make any practical sense that Stealth, Cloaking Device, or whatever should shut off simply because you attack. Thematically this change makes no sense at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I think cutting the defense makes sense from an RP standpoint with Stealth powers, since I think of them either as a skill at moving to not be noticed or like Gypsy's camoflouge power. Once you're seen you still have an advantage, but you can still use the ability to your advantage.
OTOH, powers like steamy mist and smoke grenade I would expect to hold more of the bonus, since it doesn't go away. However, a good foe would know how to adjust for the reduced visibility, though I'd expect smoke grenade to do worse than steaming mist for being more opaque. OTOH, I'm always surprised that smoke grenade doesn't aggro mobs since it looks like something you would notice in the game.
Background
I took stealth for my primary character (Shadow King) a dark/regen scrapper for 2 reasons. 1) For thematic concerns. Since density powers were taken off the table, I wanted my character to be largely intangible as a shadow and stealth represented that concept best. The changes for I5 has not hurt that other than with suppression it makes little visual sense now. The avoidance aspect was nice but if I really wanted it I would have taken invisibility.
2) The second reason, and perhaps most important to me, is when I looked at my powers I saw holes of vulnerability. Coming up through the ranks, playing regen was very hard. I intended originaly to take stealth late, but my play experiences said I needed more defense earlier just to survive when I played with big groups. I thought the acc debuff of my dark attacks would work nicely with stealth to increase my DEF (of which I really had none). This proved to be very good, but not overpowering IMHO. The downsides of stealth (movement penalty and end cost) were appropriate for what I got in return. Combat jumping offered almost as good a defense and appropriately didn't have the downsides stealth had--stealth was a better choice for me. I wanted to round out my character as best I could without making him "immortal".
I remember the discussions back in beta and why stealth was changed. For those that do not know, there was no real difference between it and invisibility. I agreed with the concept of combat powers in the pool powers to help round characters out. This is a good concept. Currently as implemented, Stealth is now a poor man's invisibilty. This is is conflict with the lessons we all learned in beta. Have you forgotten those times?
My Testing
I have tested the changes and the results have not been promising. What I have found on test with my scrapper is that during all fights I was essentialy suppressed the entire time (because of melee) and that there was no noticeable defense benefit given to my scrapper verses running with stealth off. The defense that it did provide was so small that is it could not be percieved. I am sure if I looked at the numbers over thousands of hits I would actualy see the 2-3% difference it provided, but on actual gameplay, it's all in the noise. What I have concluded is that this makes the power very undesireable from a DEF standpoint. It still works in its avoidance role for the most part, but if I want defense I am better off going with combat jumping or hover. I don't really need the DEF when I am traveling and when I really need it in combat its is a pale shadow of its former power that IMHO is not worth the downsides (end and movement penalties). Furthermore, the power does not seem worthy of being enhanced, which is not a good thing (tm).
As you can see there seems to be 2 camps on the feedback. It seems many blasters/defenders/controllers rely on its avoidance aspect and that is most important to them. Whereas the melee folks rely more on the DEF aspect. You will not be able to please both sides in this argument because the player base uses the power differently depending upon the AT.
It seems to me you are trying to kill an annoying fly with a howitzer. As I understand it, Stealth is not a problem in-and-of-itself. It is only a problem when it becomes stacked with other powers, specificaly superspeed, and to a lesser extent hasten (prior to I5) combat jumping, and tough and weave. In addition to the norrmal stuff you can get from folks, bubbles, etc.
Solution
My proposed solution is:
Not to allow stealth and superspeed (or any other combo that is too powerful you already have done this with Steamy Mist and the like).
Move invisibility back to a less than 20 power pool power for those that just want an avoidance power.
The stealth detection radius not be entirely suppressed, but the range of detection increased a small amount while attacking.
The DEF should not be suppressed (ever). It is a combat power.
Stealth/Invisvbility should be a viable tactic for achieving some missions.
Your current solutions are to complicated and will just make balancing even more difficult as your introducing too much complexity in something that should be simple.
Combat pool powers should all have 5% defense (cost for this) + cost of the secondary effect (avoidance, flight, verticle movement, imobilization protection, etc.
For any who say that once you attack you are no longer stealthed I have to say go watch Batman begins. Batman has always been the pinacle of stealthy heroes. Of course he's not balanced for a game, so that may or may not apply hear.
Personally I don't like the nerf to stealth, especially with powers such as cloaking device and Superion Invis taking hits. These are major powers in their sets. Cloak may be in the secondary blaster set, but it is such an integral part of most /Dev characters (usually AR/) that it might as well be primary.
I admit I have not done any extensive stealth/cloak testing on I5 (to busy testing my Invuln/EM, and new Sonic Blast,) so I am just going on my gut here. I'd say leave the def bonus as is, they were never that huge to begin with (at least in the powersets where this is a major part of the whole power schema, perhaps not in the pools.) Supress the Stealth for portion for 5 seconds.
Thanks all for listening to me.
To me, it would make more sense for there to be a distinction among Stealth powers.
Certain powers should operate as a droppable toggle. You click it, you hide. It lasts until you are discovered, attack, or turn it off. The first attack you get while under this Stealth power gets a % boost.
Other powers operate as you outline above, as an obscuring field that keeps others from pinpointing you, and provide some DEF, except when you attack, at which point they suppress for a SHORT time, if at all.
I do echo the question, however: What's the point of a DEF buff if it suppresses when you're in combat?
removed
I'm finding these 'real world' comparisons a little lacking in a game where people can fly and conjure fire from their hands! 
That so stated, I can think of plenty of situations where you could attack one member of a group and remain 'stealthy' to the others. Heck, I've been in the shadows of a mostly dark room, so close to someone that I could reach out and [insert offensive action] them, and no-one else would have known what the heck was going on.
But that part aside, I just think that stealth is such a marginal power now that any 'nerfs' will make it useless. I took it as a very situational power so I could get to invisibility; and with the slow movement and end cost, it's a big enough pain as it is, with extremely limited usefulness. Oh well, I guess this will free up 2 more powers.
[pointless rant]
[ QUOTE ]
Toggles:
If you Attack, or are Hit - Critters see you. You loose half your defense buff (and your PvP stealth) for 10 seconds. Your translucency is reduced to indicate this change.
Clicks
If you Attack, or are Hit - All enemies will see you. You loose half your defense buff. Your translucency is reduced to indicate this change.
Primary Stealth Powers (Those in a defense set like Dark Armor/Cloak of Darkness, Dark Miasma/Shadow Fall, Storm Summoning/Steamy Mist, Warshade/Shadow Cloak)
Toggles:
If you Attack, or are Hit - Critters see you. (You loose your PvP stealth for 10 seconds). Your translucency is reduced to indicate this change. No Defense is Suppressed
[/ QUOTE ]
loose: 1. To let loose; release. 2. To make loose; undo. 3. To cast loose; detach. 4. To let fly; discharge. 5. To release pressure or obligation from; absolve. 6. To make less strict; relax.
lose: To be unable to keep control or allegiance. "You lose half your defense buff."
I'm just being curmudgeonly because I see this across the boards, the internet, and even friggin on-line news articles. I don't think it's a typo: I think the difference in meaning is actually getting lost. And don't even get me started on the 'then'/'than' thing!
[/pointless rant]
Is it suicide to to attack States' grammar? 
Well I'll see you in the arena any day!!! HAHAHAHA!!!111!1!1!1
Cloaking Device was the final nail in the coffin for my 50 Fire/Dev.
With the +Defense buff removed from Combat Jumping and Hasten, Cloaking Device was my last remaining defensive power. That, too, has become ineffective. I've gone from having +26.5% Defense to +5% while in combat. Minions hit me twice as often on Test as they do on Live, and on Live it's hard enough for me to survive an alpha strike from a street group of yellow or orange minions.
- I have no status protection.
- I have no defense against combat attacks.
- I have no way to prevent or mitigate damage.
- My primary set has been severely reduced in scope by capping the maximum number of AoE targets.
- I have only three powers that can maintain my range "advantage." One is Web Grenade, one is Caltrops, and one is the single-target Hold in the Munitions EPP. It is impossible for me to maintain range.
- For this, I have been compensated with +200 hit points and an ability that lets me do more damage in the five seconds immediately preceding my death.
During Issue #1, I rolled up a Fire/Dev because they were deemed one of the best solo picks at the time. Since then, this powerset combo has evolved into one of the worst. Cold Snapps will be retiring when I5 is released.
The comics are repleat with examples of stealthy heroes jumping into the midst of villains, and taking them out one at a time, while their fellows are confused and unable to react.
Personally, I think this randomization crap is hurtful to the game. The more times the engine rolls dice to figure out what's happening the less control we have over gameplay, and the less we get out of it as customers and players.
but, if you're dead set against stealth being always effective (since, after all, even with stealth on, you are still attacked and followed by villains once you attack), then it should have some kind of fear/sleep effect that goes with it to simulate the fact that the villains might only get off one-shot, and be confused/scared, or be unable to act until they're woken up by a player effect. This obviously isn't to make stealth more effective than it was before, it's to bring it partly back to where it was from where it is.
Before, if you had a disorient or hold you could take out single targets silently. This made sense; that's something a hero should be able to do. Risk and reward is in play because your reward is low (it takes a while to do this and is hard to accomplish usually) and your risk is moderate (if you whiff a hold or diso then your target will call for some help). This meant you could do some things very safely, but it took a long time. I'm not aware of any abuses where stealth could somehow allow you to wipeout a group without retaliation. Anyone you attacked would fight back, and massive disorients/holds are only available to controllers, whose playstyle is on the slow/safe side anyway.
Now, stealth is meaningless except to bypass a group safely, for instance running around in higher level areas. Furthermore, if you accidentallly catch a little aoe, you're visible, which is bogus. Being injured doesn't mena you've been seen, but now it's effectively the same thing. If you attack with stealth on, it's only for a defensive bonus, one which is irrelevant because of the way the game works; the 'real' effect of stealth is making the enemy more innaccurate, but you have to actually move (or not move) to make it work, in this game, standing still with your defensive bonus is unheroic, uninteresting, and untrue to comics.
Try looking at batman or The Predator or nightcrawler or any number of other heroes with stealth. They use this during combat and it's not for +def, it's to confuse their enemies and take groups apart piecemeal.
All suppression is bogus because of this. Heroes use their powers like flight, invisibility, teleportation, raygun eyes, and whatever else in combat. All of their powers work in combat. Even if it's a 'I need to concentrate' kind of power, they use it. That's the point of having powers. It doesn't matter if you pick superman or random minor character guest-mutant #1000 on the x-men series, they *all* use their powers, and they don't suppress during combat.
It's your job to make the villains worth fighting, not ripping out the abilities of heroes at random to avoid them being 'too heroic'. This system worked fine until 3 months ago when suddenly it became necessary to suppress everything. You haven't stopped herding, you haven't stopped the meaningful parts of jousting, and you haven't stopped pling. All those things are still completely doable. But you *have* taken a bunch of fun-factor out of the game.
And before you accuse me of being a pler or something who "just wants Monty Haulism", take a deep breath. I'm not interested in being insulted by you again for the totally reasonable attitude that I don't think a game that hamstrings you in combat is enjoyable.
Here's the first thing, I'd really like to know how being extra defensive OUT of combat helps me, so if you want to nerf the defense of the Cloaking Device, do it and don't bother doing the supression half value thing since if no one is attacking me my defense could be one billion and do me no good.
Next, supressing the PVP invisibility for 10 seconds after I attack or am hit. I suppose I could deal with this however 10 seconds seems a bit long, if you supress flight and all the other movement powers for 4 seconds, why the special treatment for stealth?
removed
[ QUOTE ]
This is why I named my WoW pet "Peeve.")
[ QUOTE ]
The stealth changes perhaps make the least sense of any of the I5 changes we have seen so far.
It doesn't make any practical sense that Stealth, Cloaking Device, or whatever should shut off simply because you attack. Thematically this change makes no sense at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, you lose only half the buff, though. And it does make sense... Lets say your Solid Snake, and hiding in the shadows with around six guards out in the open about five feet away from you. Now, they haven't seen you yet, so your perfectly safe. Now, lets say you need to take one of them out, and whip out your non-Silenced pistol.
You cap one of them in the head, dropping him like a stone. Problem is, the other five guards now know your there, thanks to the fact that they just heard a fricken gunshot go off five feet from them and their buddy is now bleeding all over the place. Now, the guards arn't stupid. They don't know exactly where you are, but the fact that you just fire a really loud handgun has given them a general idea of where you are. So, taking their handy dandy AK-47 rifles, they open fire on the spot where they believe your hiding.
Now, because they don't know exactly where you are, their shots won't be accurate. But with *THAT* much ammo flying in your general direction, you can bet that one of them is gonna get lucky. So now you might be wondering, well what about the other groups in the area? They shouldn't be able to see him!
Well, lets say another group of guards come in. Now, they are certainly going to wonder why their buddies are suddendly trying to cast magic missiles at the darkness... Er, I mean, why they are unloading their precious, precious Ammo at that shadowy wall. Well, odds are they realize (Or the other guards comment) that there is an intruder there. So, naturally, they join in, trying to send our buddy Snake into that big ol' foxhound in the sky.
(Also, I only use Solid Snake in this example because he's a favorite of mine. Feel free to insert your own favorite stealth character. Sam Fischer, Snake Eyes, Sly the Racoon, it's all good)
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I've always envisioned Stealth as more like the Predator's light-bending field. The reaction you describe is similar to the one in Predator where they unload an unholy hailstorm of bullets into the jungle where they think he is, yet despite that just barely nick him.
Which pretty much describes how the various Stealth powers work now.
I'd much rather that different ATs receive different buffs, since Blasters need it far more than Tankers. For story purposes, make it a range thing. The farther away you are when you attack, the greater your buff. Because it's harder to see the Predator at a distance than when he's nearby, and because accuracy should decrease at range.
(And per Statesman's original post, using "loose" when you mean "lose" drives me nuts.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction