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1) When you level, you get x % of your debt forgiven
2) A certain amount of debt forgiven each day
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These, I can dig to an extent, though I'm not sure it's a good idea to encourage more suicidal behavior as players near leveling. The daily debt forgiveness is especially a good idea, especially if it's only a moderate amount (say, 10-20%).
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3) If you are rezzed you have 50% less debt from that death, if you use an awaken you have 25% less debt from that death versus going to a hospital. It encourages players to actually stock up on supplies and bring healers on missions.
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Er... smart players do that anyway. Few people like trips to the hospital, or risking more debt by popping an awaken instead of letting the empath do the rezzing. This really isn't necessary, IMO, especially since it arguably discourages people from playing rezzers - not only must they put up with spammed requests for rezzing, they're also the ones in the team who get the least benefit from this - an rezzer who dies, after all, is one less rezzer rezzing. That's an awaken or hospital trip for them to return and reduce their allies' debts. Sure, a smart team would protect the rezzer - but a smart team would do that anyway, regardless of debt relief.
Besides, since the debt hit occurs on dying, not on rezzing, I think this is likely a tangled bit of code you're proposing here.
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4) Scrappers should get less debt from dying (they do it a lot they are used to it). Alternatively you can actually have a power that reduces the XP debt from dying.
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Okay, others have dealt with other aspects of this suggestion, so I'll add only this:
Scrappers are the solo build by default, and generally outpace other ATs in advancement. This proposal would only exacerbate that trend: basically, this suggestion is that the devs tacitly state that scrappers are THE choice for PLers. This stigmatizes other scrappers as PLers, and would place further dev scrutiny on them as it is. If a scrapper wants to avoid dying he should a) fight smart, and b) get some good back-up. Scrappers certainly don't need this "break".
Lets focus a little less on my ideas that dont work (my official reply being :-P) and a little more on the one idea that seem to have some traction.
daily debt forgiveness- someone said 10% per day...personally even 5% per day would be fine.
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3) If you are rezzed you have 50% less debt from that death, if you use an awaken you have 25% less debt from that death versus going to a hospital. It encourages players to actually stock up on supplies and bring healers on missions.
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This creates a situation where people lie face down for hours screaming over broadcast for a rez. Empathy (and other) Defenders start getting harassing /tells and get told that they suck (or worse) if they refuse to travel all the way across the map to rez who's just gonna be face down again in 10 minutes.
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If anything is to be used for debt-mitigation, it should be going to the hospital. It's the least-convenient and using that for debt-mitigation will eliminate spams for rezzing.
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If anything is to be used for debt-mitigation, it should be going to the hospital. It's the least-convenient and using that for debt-mitigation will eliminate spams for rezzing.
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Heh... "Going to the Hospital" is NEVER cheap. That will put you in debt faster than anything (without good insurance) /heh
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3) If you are rezzed you have 50% less debt from that death, if you use an awaken you have 25% less debt from that death versus going to a hospital. It encourages players to actually stock up on supplies and bring healers on missions.
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This creates a situation where people lie face down for hours screaming over broadcast for a rez. Empathy (and other) Defenders start getting harassing /tells and get told that they suck (or worse) if they refuse to travel all the way across the map to rez who's just gonna be face down again in 10 minutes.
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If anything is to be used for debt-mitigation, it should be going to the hospital. It's the least-convenient and using that for debt-mitigation will eliminate spams for rezzing.
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Feh. Best way to 'mitigate' debt? Fighting Crime. People spend so much time obsessing about what debt they have that they often forget to just Play the Game.
"OMG! PL Plz! I need to get rid of this Debt!!eleven!" instead of just LEarning their Lesson, and playing a little differently.
My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
"The tip of a shoelace is called an aglet, its true purpose is sinister." The Question
I would like to pat you one the back for that. I also do not understand why people complain so much about a little thing like debt. Hell you get badges for working of so much debt, 3 i think. Part of being a Hero is learning from you mistakes.
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Feh. Best way to 'mitigate' debt? Fighting Crime. People spend so much time obsessing about what debt they have that they often forget to just Play the Game.
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Oh, don't get me wrong. Debt does not need to be mitigated, and I'm one of the few who thinks this new change (no debt until after level 10) is a bad one.
Debt is a joke as it is. It should scale with difficulty, IMHO. Now that I'm in SO-land, I can run around at Invincible and I clean up 70k debt in 2 or 3 missions. The mission bonuses alone drop 12k (this is after being split for debt/exp).
My 'Feh' was not aimed at you in particular - just at the notion of Debt Mitigation. ;-)
When someone starts going on about how much debt they piled up, I just point out that they are getting ALL that Bonus Influence.
Heck, I put my level 20 characters INTO debt, just so they have enough Influence at 22 to buy more SO's.
My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
"The tip of a shoelace is called an aglet, its true purpose is sinister." The Question
there've been a number of times since Exemplaring was added that I have DELIBERATELY died to get debt, so I could keep making progress on my XP bar while Exemplared.
Then again, I'm a loonie.
The Optimist says the glass is half full.
The Pessimist says the glass is half empty.
While they argue about it, the Opportunist comes along, drinks what's left, and removes all doubt. - Redwood
Alvays remember, schmot guy...any plan vere you lose you hat...is a BAD PLAN!
This is like saying that "street" cops get no experience from patroling the streets and the only way to become a REAL police officer is to solve a case. 
Poor logic.
XP is ALL incompassing. Whether you patrol the streets of Paragon City or complete a misison. The toon is a reflection of everything he/she experiences. Much like real life. 
I feel the same way -- I'm not sure why the additional buffer zone of levels 6-10.
I figured the first five levels were great for newbies to the game, as well as newbies to a particular AT or new power pools. By level 5, a good player will have figured out what the limits of their abilities are, and play can begin in earnest.
Seems to make dying sort of pointless.
Then again, I haven't done any team missions as a con/def/blst, so maybe to those ATs, it's more useful.
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The daily debt forgiveness is especially a good idea, especially if it's only a moderate amount (say, 10-20%).
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It's a stiff, bereft of life it's pushing up the daisies, it's run up the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibule. It is an ex-horse.
This particular equine has been beaten to death a number of times, and I believe back in the day red names replied to say that they didn't want to do this as it would encourage people not to play until their debt was gone, and believe it or not they want people to play and have fun.
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The daily debt forgiveness is especially a good idea, especially if it's only a moderate amount (say, 10-20%).
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It's a stiff, bereft of life it's pushing up the daisies, it's run up the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibule. It is an ex-horse.
This particular equine has been beaten to death a number of times, and I believe back in the day red names replied to say that they didn't want to do this as it would encourage people not to play until their debt was gone, and believe it or not they want people to play and have fun.
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Well, what about this then: you get a daily debt forgiveness for everyday that you actually logged in.
No offense, but I'm of the opinion that sucking chest wounds are nature's way of telling you to slow down. Or at least to stop doing something.
That's what exemplaring is for- rapid debt removal. I mean heck, I play as squishy as any could be (Blaster) and I don't blow a gasket when I pile up debt. I go find a lower level bunch like a respec team or TF, exemplar down and clean up the debt. Heck, I'm saving Positron for the late 40's or so...where I figure I can get a really bad streak and clean it out. :P
I've noticed 90% of the people complaining about debt are the people doing the power leveling. Debt is fine as it is don't make power leveling even more attractive for the idiots.
I like debt (kinda) It lets me see more content. Mind you when I'm 1 level from a new power, I hate seeing all of the bubles gray.
I have a blaster that was in perma-debt from lv 6-12 (Would still be in perma debt but the WL hit and I jumpped at the chance to get a travel power.)
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Besides, since the debt hit occurs on dying, not on rezzing, I think this is likely a tangled bit of code you're proposing here.
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EQ does it, the higher level rez spell used, the more XP you get back (they have XP loss upon death there) with the first starting at 0%XP return, going up to 95%, IIRC.
And it would basically be XP given just for Debt relief, kinda like exemplar does now.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
rez powers reducing the debt would be so horrible, i can see all the selfish people refusing to go to hospital and insisting to wait for a rez that might take a long while to recharge, in addition people will start asking for payoffs for casting rez... it will be very very bad for the game.
anyway, debt is so meanigless, it comes and goes so quickly at whatever level you are.
I think the corrent system is great and would hate to see it changed even slightly.
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EQ does it, the higher level rez spell used, the more XP you get back (they have XP loss upon death there) with the first starting at 0%XP return, going up to 95%, IIRC.
And it would basically be XP given just for Debt relief, kinda like exemplar does now.
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Does anyone else find it amusing that the guy arguing in favour of what amounts to free XP whenever he gets rezzed is named "Leech?"
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EQ does it, the higher level rez spell used, the more XP you get back (they have XP loss upon death there) with the first starting at 0%XP return, going up to 95%, IIRC.
And it would basically be XP given just for Debt relief, kinda like exemplar does now.
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Does anyone else find it amusing that the guy arguing in favour of what amounts to free XP whenever he gets rezzed is named "Leech?"
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How about this: Change the debt system to work like DAOC and EQ, where you LOSE XP instead of just having some doubled-up XP bar, and THEN make the rezzes work that way.
Then we can make it so you can actually DE-DING too. Won't that be fun? And how about lowering your hitpoints permanently until you visit a "Doctor" NPC and pay him influance to restore your lost hitpoints?
No? Don't Like that Idea? COH's death penalty is MILD.
The Optimist says the glass is half full.
The Pessimist says the glass is half empty.
While they argue about it, the Opportunist comes along, drinks what's left, and removes all doubt. - Redwood
Alvays remember, schmot guy...any plan vere you lose you hat...is a BAD PLAN!
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Well, what about this then: you get a daily debt forgiveness for everyday that you actually logged in.
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You have a system like that right now: You get a bit of debt forgiveness (repayment) everytime you make an arrest. From the looks of those begging for even this minimal penalty to be removed, you'd think some people don't really want to play this game.
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1) When you level, you get x % of your debt forgiven
2) A certain amount of debt forgiven each day
3) If you are rezzed you have 50% less debt from that death, if you use an awaken you have 25% less debt from that death versus going to a hospital. It encourages players to actually stock up on supplies and bring healers on missions.
4) Scrappers should get less debt from dying (they do it a lot they are used to it). Alternatively you can actually have a power that reduces the XP debt from dying.
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I have to make a comment about the xp debt and scrappers. What you said will be true as of issue 4 with the loss of all those perma-powers. But as a result of this scrappers will be less likely to team and the ones that do will not be as effective because they have to retreat from battle. This will in turn cause the countless deaths of squishies. And the same squishies that cry out to have us nerfed will be crying from their debt and to have the nerfs undone.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Debt reduction? Seriously, people, come on.
Debt is easy. Honestly. Just get yourself into a smart group and don't do anything stupid.
Sure, Blasters have it hard in the high levels. Well, now that you know that, scale back on the attacks. Relax a little. Let things get good an aggroed, then apply damage judiciously.
Debt is a necessary negative consequence to dying. If there's no negatives, then there's no reason not to die.
So, don't die. If you've died, it's your fault. Don't blame the Tank, or the Defender, or whomever else. You. You got in over your head. You know why the Devs give you debt-free levels in the beginning? Because that's where you're supposed to learn your limitations.
As you level, your limitations grow incrementally, so you know what you can take and what you can't. Unless you're PLed, in which case the debt you earn now is payback for not learning the ropes earlier.
Don't jump in the pool if you're not able to swim.
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A note to all the players asking why about the second change and how it effects me: Most of my main ALTs deaths are the end result of some other player aggroing a mob behind me and then running scared past me, or a Tank dropping mid combat, or some other similar mishap brought about by poor teaming skills.
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Reminds me of the other night, when I got zapped from behind by a level 49 robot in Mishu Bridge at Brcks (supposedly levels 30-32). Special thanks go out to whomever left me THAT little gift
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Heck, 9 out of 10 of my faceplants have been during missions, so this is a blessing. How many times have you joined a team of 8 only to find out the mission owner outlevels you and has the mission difficulty set on invincible ?
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Yeah, that can be pretty nasty. We had to restart a respec once because when we showed up for the first indoor mission, almost no one could hit anything. Someone was running on Invincible.
Personally, I think the best approach is use the current resources to resolve the issue rather than throwing yet another stipulation or change on the user base. In that particular case, there are already ways to fix the problem, and players already have discovered them.
For example, the entire team can abandon mission and change their difficulty settings in order to make the mission suitable for everyone. (Yeah, it adds a little time to the game, but if youre going to team with someone, you need to respect where theyre at. Otherwise dont team with them.)
Barring that, I think you could have been SKed up to par, which keeps the higher levs happy.
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3) If you are rezzed you have 50% less debt from that death, if you use an awaken you have 25% less debt from that death versus going to a hospital. It encourages players to actually stock up on supplies and bring healers on missions.
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This creates a situation where people lie face down for hours screaming over broadcast for a rez. Empathy (and other) Defenders start getting harassing /tells and get told that they suck (or worse) if they refuse to travel all the way across the map to rez who's just gonna be face down again in 10 minutes.