The only debt I care about is on my first character, who I want to level as quickly as possible. With all my other characters, I look for debt anytime I'm not on a team just so that I can see more of the game. If there's an option to forgive debt, I'd like to opt out. This is the way I play, if you like to play differently, you should have fun your own way, I'm sure we can find a way to coexist.
FASTER,FASTER,FASTER!
On Champion
Freq (Blaster),Strontium (Tank), Capital (Troller), X Band (Troller, Died in a freak Jello accident), MANY others...
I do not know if this has already been touched on... But with the balance of hero vs. villain ( a minion = a third of a hero, a LT = three quarters and a boss 1.5) will the experiance rewarded reflect the new and greater risk involved? Or will the upper level grinds be even more of a grind?
How about, when receiving a team invite, displaying the mission name, number of heroes currently in team [possibly including archetypes], and level of heroes such as highest and lowest or at least the level of the leader. If you could actually display the names of the characters, that would be especially effective so one could avoid re-teaming with someone you never want to see again.
If this has already been mentioned, I apologize [but I still think it's worth another mention]. It seem that this might help avoid some debting issues [and a heckuvalotta annoyance for me]. I think the current exp system is good enough, though I haven't been playing all that long. I just hate getting on a team with people that just do whatever they want instead of working WITH the group.
[end two cents]
| Issue 9 Fly poses | IO's and ED
| Cycling the Combat Monitor | Load Macros from a Text File |
Thank you...I totally agree...as for debt...exemp a mish or 2 and its gone.
I am new to the game but the comments about Ghetto Hospital ports from the hollows make me laugh. I am ex-EQ and so I have been using ghetto hospital ports with debt. I mean why not? Debt is easy to work off and I can still advance with it.
I find that the Hollows experience is so ... interesting that I am choosing powers based on making my travel easy and recall friend to pass on that joy to the rest of my team.
Both good ideas, especially the second one since it encourages teams and missionplay instead of street-hunting.
Quixotik
"I did not say this. I am not here." -Guild Navigator
I would still like an option of slowing down experience gain so that I can run all my contacts out of missions and not outlevel them. Perhaps an NPC slider to set a portion of exp gain to influence instead?
would also give me another retort to people asking for influence instead of just "go exemplar for a bit"
will have to see how close I'm pushing the 5-10 contacts out of missions running 5+ perma debt as is already
yes, I'm insane... but I actually enjoy the content... even on alts! 
I like the xp for influence idea. One way to work it would be to not allow the switch to be possible if the character was in debt.
I don't have 2 cents ;-(
Hi there.
I understand the reasoning behind the level 10 no-debt system. I'm neutral about it.
I'm one of those madman SRs that participated in the all-SR Sara Moore TF on Test (See thread in the scrapper forums.)
Under the I-5 system, we scrappers faceplanted much more often, but the sliver of debt and increased XP made those casualties meaningless. Mere speedbumps. Despite heavy casualties, we were out of debt before the next faceplant.
This new system makes casualties meaningless. It encourages fast-paced, reckless and even suicidal tactics rather than a slower, more careful, safer approach.
I know I strongly prefer to think tactically rather than simply blunder in with guns blazing. It's your game. If you want to foster "scrapper fever" rather than teamwork and planning, that's your call.
I would much prefer a system where our defenses worked well but debt per-faceplant was large, and something to be avoided instead of shrugged off. Perhaps a three-lives per mission system like the old coin-op video games, and some real penalty for failed missions? That would make life more exciting.
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3) If you are rezzed you have 50% less debt from that death, if you use an awaken you have 25% less debt from that death versus going to a hospital. It encourages players to actually stock up on supplies and bring healers on missions.
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This creates a situation where people lie face down for hours screaming over broadcast for a rez. Empathy (and other) Defenders start getting harassing /tells and get told that they suck (or worse) if they refuse to travel all the way across the map to rez in 10 minutes.
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This is exactly how it was in DAoC. Rez-begging was more prevalent than PL-begging. And I'll bet it's the same (or similar) as in EQ, WoW, etc.
Well...here's my take on this:
I've spent the better part of level 48 in debt. On the live server. Why? AV hunting. Now, I'm a regen scrapper. That means that, yes, I am running IH all the time while doing this. Still dying...a lot.
[sarcasm] Good thing they are getting rid of this incredibly overpowering power. [/sarcasm]
If they are going to gut our defenses (and it seems that they are), then we are going to need the 1/2 debt just to avoid perma-debt. There are going to be a LOT more deaths after I5, so I think they simply "threw us a bone" with this. That, or they are trying to not make the debt seem not as bad because it would only remind us of how weak we are going to become.
Frankly, if you put roll up your sleeves and play the game, you find that debt, in it's current form, goes away pretty quickly. I didn't really see it as a problem. Pre-level 10, it only takes 15-20 mins to get out of debt. In fact, at level 48 I can remove debt from one defeat in about 20-30 mins...faster on a team.
Just my opinion of course, but I liken it to this: "We are going to hit you in the groin with a baseball bat, but here's a jock strap so it won't hurt as bad. Of course, you can only use the jock strap if you play the game the way that we want you to."
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Couple of changes we're making in I5:
1) Instead of the first five levels being debt free, the first TEN levels will be debt free.
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This might be usefully changed to first fifteen levels, in consideration for the long travel time without a travel pool power. Eventually. After ten level experimentation is seen.
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2) XP debt will be halved on mission maps (that includes outdoor mission maps, too).
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XP debt might be halved for all players of the game when this change is released, to reflect the change? This might ease other dissatisfactions with I5, and if accompanied by an email declaring something like "Statesman has paid half the debt of all Paragon heroes", it might be lauded even by those off the forums.
Also, perhaps all issue changes should be mentioned in character email, optionally, so that non-forumites who rarely surf the website might be informed? No, this is not just because I rarely recieve friendly email, it's just a suggestion...
Stars for you.
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EQ does it...
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I didn't bother to read beyond that.
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Couple of changes we're making in I5:
2) XP debt will be halved on mission maps (that includes outdoor mission maps, too).
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This was obviously put in to help blasters. This, combined with the new defiance system, will turn this game into CITY OF BLASTERS!
NOOOoooooooooooo
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
Rock, rock on Hamster.
This is a total nerf to the debt badges! How hard are those things going to be to earn now???? And they're putting in THREE MORE??!?!1?
I swear, if this patch goes live with debt nerfed like this, I'll threaten to quit very loudly, and even make implications that other, anonymous people I know are planning to leave! In droves! DROVES, I tell you!
And to think of all the debt my leel 50's have gotten and got rid of and will never see the new badges
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1) Instead of the first five levels being debt free, the first TEN levels will be debt free.
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Is this truly considered a good idea? It doesn't take long for bad habits to develop. Those first few levels go by really quick. And when players know there are no penalties for dying, they tend to play a bit more suicidal. Extending the no debt to ten levels, it almost reinforces the mindless suicidal jumps into overwhelming odds. This sounds like a bad idea to me.
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2) XP debt will be halved on mission maps (that includes outdoor mission maps, too).
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Can street hunt missions be removed or at least the street hunts in hazard zones. As a defender, anytime I get stuck with a defeat "x" mobs in "hazard zone" I end up with it stuck in my mission list a while. I usually team up as a defender, but teams usually want door missions instead of street hunts. Hazard zone mobs are usually very large or full of bosses. Is it fair that as a defender I have to painfully try to pull one minion out of the group and try to defeat it before running to the police drones? And if I fail I get full debt simply because I wasn't behind a mission door? I would think that if you're going to force me to street hunt to complete a story arc, my character should get the benefit of half debt while hunting the mob stated in the zone specified. And if you send an ambush at the start of the hunt, that should cause only half debt as well even if it is in a different zone. Ambushes frequently result in a trip to the hospital for my defender.
Can a thread be created where enhancement drops can be discussed? I'd like to see LEVEL 53 TRAININGS GO AWAY. Training enhancements should stop dropping when we STOP USING THEM AND HAVE MOVED ON TO EITHER DUAL-ORIGINS OR SINGLE-ORIGINS. And, can the level of said enhancements match up a little better with the LEVEL OF THE MOB THAT IT CAME FROM OR EVEN ITS ORIGIN? Why does a CoT mage boss drop a TECH/NAT DO???
- Captain Amazing
I really am not enjoying the debt changes.
I feel....like there are no consequences to dying/failure now. I never thought the burden of debt was too much to bear in this game. it was just enough to let you know you messed up, and now you're going to pay for it for a little while, that seems fair.
I dunno...it seems to me the Devs were trying to fight this feeling of "no challenge", but on this particular issue just, I dunno.
Why not just eliminate debt at this point? These reduced numbers are just silly. At level 42, if I die in a mission, Im usually out of debt by the time I exit....again, no feeling of defeat, no consequences for being stupid, or misjudging a situation.
I vote for 100% debt again.
Flame away.
I'm still not digging ED.
50 spines/regen
50 nrg/nrg/force
37 emp/rad
50 stone/fire/fire
50 Peacebringer
43 bs/sr
22 fire/ta
23 sonic/sonic
Err.. No. I vote for 0% debt now that my toons are weaker than never .
Flame away.
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
Oddly enough, my inv. tanker is still invincible (except when herding Rularuu, stupid jerk wisps and eye balls).
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
Rock, rock on Hamster.
This is going to sound bizarre, but I think the first six should be debt-free, and not ten.
After creating a new blaster post-I5, I commonly see players take a nose-dive into a mob in the Hollows just to get back to AP or Skyway--a kind of uber-port across a large hazard zone to get back to the trainers to level-up, sell enhancements, etc.
The first time I saw this was on my team with my new archery blaster. Rather than run back the 1.3 miles to the AP gates in the Hollows, everyone jumped into the Trolls. I was level nine at the time...I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I felt like I was violating the dignity of my new hero. I ran back *gasp* the whole way.
Tell me if I'm wrong, Statesman, but I think this goes against your vision. I know it does mine. 
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This is going to sound bizarre, but I think the first six should be debt-free, and not ten.
After creating a new blaster post-I5, I commonly see players take a nose-dive into a mob in the Hollows just to get back to AP or Skyway--a kind of uber-port across a large hazard zone to get back to the trainers to level-up, sell enhancements, etc.
The first time I saw this was on my team with my new archery blaster. Rather than run back the 1.3 miles to the AP gates in the Hollows, everyone jumped into the Trolls. I was level nine at the time...I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I felt like I was violating the dignity of my new hero. I ran back *gasp* the whole way.
Tell me if I'm wrong, Statesman, but I think this goes against your vision. I know it does mine.
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I still do this upon occassion at level 40+. Sometimes you just don't want to sit and hold a single key down for the next 3 minutes (at level 43 - make it 9 minutes without a travel power.) just to get back to where you can talk to a contact. If your playtime is limited, how can you finish a mission when you have to run from Circus Town in Crey's Folly all the way to Indigo in Founder's Falls and back again. At lower levels, I have done this trick and then gone to teleport my teammates so they didn't have to make the entire run. No, it wasn't martyrdom - it was purely selfish because when I am logged into the game, I want to be battling criminals, not running back and forth all the time.
The "Ambulance" is a nice shortcut if you are willing to get a bit of debt.
Ok, so I'm a blaster. I lived in debt for 45 levels (would have for 50 if there was debt in levels 1-5). An additional defeat is not a problem because I'll just go throw fire at something until I feel better.
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there've been a number of times since Exemplaring was added that I have DELIBERATELY died to get debt, so I could keep making progress on my XP bar while Exemplared.
Then again, I'm a loonie.
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Hehe if your loonie than I am too.