Well, we play with the big 8 person teams, and I don't think Statesman really wants to encourage them. Not that he hates them or anything! Just that the more stuff gets on the screen the more frames drop and the game can look crappier on lower performing computers. That lowers the game experience for some of us (yes, me!) and there will be peoople (not me, I'm happy just to be able to play!) put off by that. I think he'd like 5 and 6 people better but they allow eight people slugfests for the heck of it.
I WILL say that a big, 8 player mission is certainly extremely challenging. The bosses spawn thick and often very purple. Since there's always level disparity on a team it can get really, really nasty.
Er, I've strayed of subjct. My real point was that I think halving the debt for missions is a great idea. Look, the characters who die the most (blasters, kheldeons most likely) are the ones that, for the most part, want to team the most. So I think it's a very good change even though debt in a big team is almost meaningless. We still need SOME kind of a slap on the wrist for dying...
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5 more levels of using the hospital as the fastest travel power in the game
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Since I learned to embrace debt, this has become a reasonable travel power for me too.
FASTER,FASTER,FASTER!
On Champion
Freq (Blaster),Strontium (Tank), Capital (Troller), X Band (Troller, Died in a freak Jello accident), MANY others...
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Couple of changes we're making in I5:
1) Instead of the first five levels being debt free, the first TEN levels will be debt free.
2) XP debt will be halved on mission maps (that includes outdoor mission maps, too).
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I don't understand the reason behind #1. Would like some clarification on how that idea got started. I think being debt free from 1 to 5 is good. Debt isnt really bad until much later in the game. If #1 is some kind of quick fix to cure the travel-debt problem players have for getting to The Hollows and Perez Park missions then I don't think this is what people are really looking for.
I fully support #2. Some missions for some unknown reason just wipe-out teams. Can't pin it down to anything other than just bad luck. It just happens. I really value teammates that can tough out those hard luck mission, which mean I have to do the same.
most definately I have to agree, the no debt till 10 and the 1/2 debt is totally killer States, you guys absolutely rock, a tribute, to the fine game that you guys have and are creating constantly for us 
What is this debt thing you speak of?
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I was thinking the same thing All travel powers should be available earlier if you waant players to do missions in low-level hazard zones without raising the "debt-free" cap.
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Good idea. it would even solve another problem, which is not being able to start a power pool at 4 (and if you want a travel power at 6, you'd need to get the pre-req at 4)
/agree
I like debt it helps people to team up to get rid of it. Anything that does that is good for the game. The debt at the low levels is so small, it's cheaper to make the mistakes at the low level than to do it later on when it costs you.
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Not that I'm complaining really, but why?
Debt is hardly even a penalty, and now it's being mitigated further? Perhaps I'm alone here, but I don't get it.
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Nice changes - but...
...when are we going to experience changes actually rewarding player skills/tactics? The changes with mission tweaks and so on is a great way for players to experience the challenge they want, but still - if a hero is considered to be Invincible, he shouldn't be allowed to exploit that he can choose difficult missions, get defeated a lot and end up having an exp bonus compared to playing at a lower difficulty, even with defeats.
When changes are adressed such that difficulties as Invincible are only available for players with no debt, Unyielding with maybe one or two defeats worth of debt and so on, player tactics is actually rewarded and it's suddenly more worth having a balanced team along if a player wants to tweak the mission settings.
Just something that's been floating around in my head ever since people started taking Invincible missions even though they most certain weren't invincible.
Greetings Statesman ,
Thanks for dropping by and telling us what's up.
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Couple of changes we're making in I5:
1) Instead of the first five levels being debt free, the first TEN levels will be debt free.
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As a regular creator of alts, the group of existing players most likely to benefit from this I ask you, please don't do this.
Having played the game for moths, the one thing I don't need is something that takes away the challenge of the game even more. You have a comic book coming out that pokes fun at the fact that Paragon City's heroes are wimps without any reasonable fear of dying, and making that even more true is just sorta sad.
I suspect the real target of this is new players, to encourage them to stay involved with the game. Saddly, if they are bailing out because of debt in levels 6-10, I really don't think they were gonna stick with the game more than their first month or two anyway. It basically makes the game a joke for questionable payoff. If changes are required to entice new players, how about reducing the debt by 50% in levels 5-10. That way the concept is introduced in a more gradual way than the hard binary yes/no we have now?
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2) XP debt will be halved on mission maps (that includes outdoor mission maps, too).
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Pretty much the same reaction here. The game is dangerously close trivial as it is, with only minimal consequences for dying in any circumstances. It's a light, pick up and play game which is good fun, but it could easily get to be like computer solitaire - If you don't like how much you are lossing, you just close the program and start again - completely without consequences. I personnaly feel that consequences engender involvment, and that a sense of risk is critcal to making any game worth playing. I would like to be on the edge of my seat, or I could find some other activity that does give me a thrill for my entertainment time/dollars.
Please don't take away the sense of risk, it's fun to see heroes with ZZzzs over their heads, it's not fun to see players snoozing because it just doesn't matter if they are on the ball or not.
In the subject of debt, I would like to see several changes, some small, some larger.
1) 50% debt if you are killed by something 10 levels bigger than you. It's obviously someone else's ambush and not your fault your 13th level blaster met a 28th level Family guy in Perez Park (had it happen, wasn't amused). Alternatively, you are out exploring, and that's at least -something- to do other than the grind, and shouldn't be punished with the full weight of the debt stick.
2) A new, possibly training-only (no DO, no SO) enhancement that reduces debt when you are rezed by a power. Give healers something to think about when slotting their rezes, and take some of the sting out of powers that can only be used by dead characters. Were it me, I'd cap it at 25% (3 slots) debt relief for rez-other powers, and 33.3% (4 slots) debt relief for self-rez powers. This change could encourage more teamming, and less going to the hospital in general, while providing greater variety in how rez powers are slotted/enhanced.
Thank you for listening, and for bringing us a great, evolving game !
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1) 50% debt if you are killed by something 10 levels bigger than you. It's obviously someone else's ambush and not your fault your 13th level blaster met a 28th level Family guy in Perez Park (had it happen, wasn't amused). Alternatively, you are out exploring, and that's at least -something- to do other than the grind, and shouldn't be punished with the full weight of the debt stick.
2) A new, possibly training-only (no DO, no SO) enhancement that reduces debt when you are rezed by a power. Give healers something to think about when slotting their rezes, and take some of the sting out of powers that can only be used by dead characters. Were it me, I'd cap it at 25% (3 slots) debt relief for rez-other powers, and 33.3% (4 slots) debt relief for self-rez powers. This change could encourage more teamming, and less going to the hospital in general, while providing greater variety in how rez powers are slotted/enhanced.
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Removing debt for being defeated by ambushes would be nice, but I don't see it as practical. How would the DEVs distinguish betweens an SK'd character defeated by +10 and someone who fell prey to a high-level ambush? Also, I know of Tanks that go out and fight +10 mobs... not to mention PLing. I hardly think this needs more encouragement.
I like the idea of removing the debt penalty up to level 10. For new players, they need a chance to learn and ENJOY playing... this will do that. They will (or not) learn about biting off too much and the consequent debt soon enough. For the Hollows and Perez Park storylines and missions at that level, debt can be very annoying. I suspect this is a partial solution to the "mission generating in +5/+10 areas", and is a boon to those experienced players starting alts who tire of gaining debt for playing with inexperienced players.
Regarding XP-regaining Rez powers - PLEASE DON'T. Please don't turn CoH into EQ-style Rez Begging Fests. Already we see rez begging in some zones. (I don't see the point of it, when by the time someone arrives and rezes and you rest, you could just have easily run back from the hospital and stopped off to sell and pick up inspirations on the way back.)
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Removing debt for being defeated by ambushes would be nice, but I don't see it as practical. How would the DEVs distinguish betweens an SK'd character defeated by +10 and someone who fell prey to a high-level ambush? Also, I know of Tanks that go out and fight +10 mobs... not to mention PLing. I hardly think this needs more encouragement.
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You must have a pretty low opinion of the Devs it you think they can't code "effective level +10" . That isn't even a hiccup, much less anspeed bump. As to tank (and only tanks...) attacking things 10 levels higher than them, do you suppose the problem is with the idea or with the tanks :P?
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Regarding XP-regaining Rez powers - PLEASE DON'T. Please don't turn CoH into EQ-style Rez Begging Fests. Already we see rez begging in some zones. (I don't see the point of it, when by the time someone arrives and rezes and you rest, you could just have easily run back from the hospital and stopped off to sell and pick up inspirations on the way back.)
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Ok, the problem there is from people comming and rezing them . Make the debt relief aspect of rez other strictly in-team, and prevent dead characters from joining teams. Done and done.
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I was thinking the same thing All travel powers should be available earlier if you waant players to do missions in low-level hazard zones without raising the "debt-free" cap.
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Good idea. it would even solve another problem, which is not being able to start a power pool at 4 (and if you want a travel power at 6, you'd need to get the pre-req at 4)
/agree
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Exactly my thought. I know that the first few levels just getting your basic attack and defense powers is critical, but honestly I'd been avoiding doing missions in Hollows for six levels before I finally got a travel power at 14 because I get so bored running around the long way and hate dying to Purple spawns in Grendel's Gulch.
Starting at six or eight, the travel time between the contact and the mission (and the trainer, if you're in a hazard zone) starts really grating. I'm currently trying to come up with a reasonable way to get Swift at 6th in a couple of builds and probably 3-slot both Swift and Sprint to avoid that particular pain. Arrgh.
As an aside, if the travel could be automated so I (the player, not my toon) could run get a pop or something while running to the next mission sans travel power, that'd be way less annoying.
dble post
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Problem is I outlevelled most of the Hollows and Striga content only doing missions. I made another character just to go through all the hollows stuff and found it difficult to stay within the level restrictions to finish Hollows storylines. Halving the debt in missions means I need to spend more time dying outside of missions. 
I'd like to see missions scale to your security level clearance more. I suppose a Flashback system is the alternative to this, but if the missions scaled then the enemies inside would always be around your level so we wouldn't need level restrictions.
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ditto!! Jeez im trying hard not to outlevel my contacts and i couldnt do it for the first arc and hollows....my main toon existed pre-hollows and even now in the 40's i have to be careful about how fast i lvl, as it stands now i gotta dig up a group to do the Quaterfield TF soon or ill have to exmp to do it (yeech!). If i got one level every 5 with street sweeping or god forbid getting xp on someone elses mish, i wouldnt be able get all the arcs and title mish's!
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Quote:
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Problem is I outlevelled most of the Hollows and Striga content only doing missions. I made another character just to go through all the hollows stuff and found it difficult to stay within the level restrictions to finish Hollows storylines. Halving the debt in missions means I need to spend more time dying outside of missions.
I'd like to see missions scale to your security level clearance more. I suppose a Flashback system is the alternative to this, but if the missions scaled then the enemies inside would always be around your level so we wouldn't need level restrictions.
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ditto!! Jeez im trying hard not to outlevel my contacts and i couldnt do it for the first arc and hollows....my main toon existed pre-hollows and even now in the 40's i have to be careful about how fast i lvl, as it stands now i gotta dig up a group to do the Quaterfield TF soon or ill have to exmp to do it (yeech!). If i got one level every 5 with street sweeping or god forbid getting xp on someone elses mish, i wouldnt be able get all the arcs and title mish's!
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I think what this is really showing in the great need (necessity) for getting "The FlashBack System" that has been talked about for sooooooo long, yet we never hear any progress on it, and keep wondering why in blazes it is taking sooooooo long to implement.
Especially now that new mission content has been added, and you want to go Stirga and do it with your favorite Character, but LOL, your favorite Character is level 50 because you've been playing all those other missions and story arcs because your really liking the content.
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when by the time someone arrives and rezes and you rest, you could just have easily run back from the hospital and stopped off to sell and pick up inspirations on the way back
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Level 8 in the back of the hollows, a few feet from the mission door - It is quicker to wait for the rez.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Howabout mixing the two ideas?
No debt until after level 5. Half debt until after level 10.
Doing half debt for 5-10 is pointless. The amount of debt you get at those levels is so small, you barely noticed it.
He's try to encourage people to do door missions. So why not have it so that the more successive door missions you do, better your mission bonus is. Not sure how this would work. Probably have something to do with the ratio of time indoors to outdoors and how long you've been logged on or something. That way your countering debt, and actually rewarding people for doing missions (instead of being easier with the punishment).
Enjoying every AT in the game.
Remember the Golden Rule: Skill > Build
Leader of the True Blues on Liberty
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What in the world is the justification for having it at level 14 anyway?
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I think Statesman has stated that this is so people don't gimp themselves by taking movement powers at levels where they should really be taking attacks and defences.
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Speed is the best defense any toon could have. Remember the fighter pilot's motto: "Speed is life."
Denying legitimate travel powers until level 14 simply means you have to wade through the same old "content" with every new alt you create and you have to do it painfully slowly at that.
As to the argument that people are missing "great content" when they PL through the early levels, I'll simply raise my earlier question: "How many times does someone have to do Frostfire before they 'get it?'" I've done it at least a dozen times, along with a number of those early missions. If nothing else, I feel I've earned the right to "skip" some of that so-called "great content."
BTW, the best on-line PVP game I ever played was F-15 Strike Eagle III, because every person had the same load-outs and aircraft and you won or lost based on the manner in which you handled your virtual aircraft in a virtual dog-fight.
When the tools are equal, skill makes the difference. When the tools are not equal, the developers make the difference, which is why I won't be playing PVP here. It's neither "great content" nor much fun, IMHO.
BTW, using Statesman's logic, no travel power should be available until level 41. That way, no toon would ever be "gimped" for lack of attacks or defense, as by that level (by level 34 actually), your primaries and secondaries are already pretty well set: you'll have all the O/D you need.
So why level 14 instead of 34, 41 or 49? Because travel powers make the game more enjoyable by taking the tedium out of "sprinting" (there's a misnomer) to and fro. And if that's the true justification for level 14, then it's an equally valid justification for levels 2, 4, or 6.
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After all, it's not really heroic to commit suicide just to avoid the drudgery of a 5 minute run to a gate and then a few more minutes to get to the trainer in Atlas just to face the same amount of time running back to a mission.
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Time is money, right? Everything in this game is geared to keeping people playing longer and thus on-line longer. And the longer it takes you to do everything from run to a trainer to slot enhancements, the longer your account will be open.
Good for business. Bad for gamers.
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After all, it's not really heroic to commit suicide just to avoid the drudgery of a 5 minute run to a gate and then a few more minutes to get to the trainer in Atlas just to face the same amount of time running back to a mission.
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Time is money, right? Everything in this game is geared to keeping people playing longer and thus on-line longer. And the longer it takes you to do everything from run to a trainer to slot enhancements, the longer your account will be open.
Good for business. Bad for gamers.
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Let's see... assuming an average of 3 hours a day playtime... (some will have more, some less, but this is around what I and my friends are usually at, so it'll do for an ad-hoc calculation.) One month's playing would, on (30-day) average work out to 90 hours of playtime.
And we'll be cynical and treat that "five minute run" estimate as accurate as well. So it would take 1,080 of those runs to add up to just one more month of playtime.
Now, even when I can't call a contact yet, there aren't that many of these runs I need to make. One from contact to mission. One from hospital to mission if I die (admittedly I can die multiple times,. One from mission to trainer/enhancement dealer after mission if I need to. One back to the contact. Four runs per mission, roughly. That's 20 minutes "run time" per mission if one has no travel powers. Which means I'll need to run 270 missions for this "run time" to add up to a month of playtime.
I can usually finish a mission in an average of 15 minutes within the mission map. Sometimes it's faster, sometimes it's longer, obviously -- but 15 minutes for the usual. So a total of 35 minutes per mission once the "run time" is thrown in.
Which means that in the 3 hours of gameplay a night, I can play 5.14 missions. It will take me 52.5 nights to run 270 missions.
So... after playing for two months, if I don't take any travel powers, I'll have travelled enough to account for an extra month. You know... chances are if I'm playing for two months I'm already enjoying the game enough that I don't really care about playing an extra month. Chances are also that I have some form of travel power, which renders the argument moot. (And if I choose to build a character without ever taking a travel power, well, I know what I'm getting into.)
Yes, that would be blasters My Controller doesn't die much either. She has Imps to fight for her and bubbles to protect her. SO I hardly ever die. But when I was working up my blaster I might have died two or three times a day. Sometimes not, but in high levels that's a lot of debt and it takes a while to work it off.
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Boy you reeeallly want us to do those missions don't you?
If you are going to encourage missions that much you really need to look at a complete revamp of some of the hazard zones like Faultline/Boomtown. These areas look great but just aren't used at all. If the 2 or 3 Faultline missions were removed, I wonder how long it would take before anyone noticed that Faultline zone was offline? The only thing Boomtown is good for is Troll Bosses (yes it is better than the Hollows). These areas need to be rethought.
One strong suggestion: Pull the existing missions out of one of them and it level 45 non-hazard zone. PI is way too over crowded and nobody wants to go to Zulu with me lol. Make a Carnie area.
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I agree. I think there should be a PI 2 or something. It's pretty much the only place higher level heroes go and it's lagalitious. I never thought of a seperate Carnie area. That's a good idea. Maybe an abandoned carnival ground like the missions you get with them?
Firebase Zulu.. was really cool at first glance. Then trying to get through those geyser things just made me mad. I'll probably do it with flying characters and that's it. But I think the zone LOOKS cool.
You've simply proven my point: no travel powers (by your own math) equals more time an account is open. Nothing you wrote disproves my original assertion.
If travel powers are good enough for Peacebringers and Warshades at level 1, they should be good enough for anybody who wants them.
I like the changes and can't see any harm in them. Nor do I understand how people can be getting upset by this.