Epic ATs or Epic Power Pools?
By
008Zulu,
Posted on: 2004-11-06 22:56 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I'm surprised they went the group route, since I don't see these epic AT's being wanted much in groups. The jack of all trades, master o' none thing is great for solo, but crappy in a group role where you're easily outperformed. I play a scrapper- I know.
So basically we have a character who needs lots of group members, and can do anything. He can snap off, (made up example) a RA, and can do decent damage melee damage. But any defender can pull off a better RA, (and more buffs to boot.) and any scrapper/blaster can do more damage than the EAT. So why have one that is focused on grouping?
Well, that's just my opinion.
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All of what you just wrote is speculation. You've never played the Epic AT and you don't know how it works.
Who ever said "Jack of all trades, master of none"? My assumption was that it was more like "Master of all trades, jack of none".
Wait until the AT comes before jumping to conclusions.
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and any scrapper/blaster can do more damage than the EAT.
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How do you know this?
Notice I said "made up example" All of my post is conjecture. I'm not jumping to conclusions, just taking an educated guess based off of my current experience in the game. Am I somehow not allowed to do that? All I'd like is for a dev to come along and assuage my fears that the epic AT might replace current AT's in big enough groups... and can't solo worth a damn.
Dawnslayer on Virtue.
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Both Archetypes have brand NEW power sets.
In fact, there's 16 Primary Powers and 16 Secondary Powers.
Yep. Not 9. 16.
And there's Shapeshifting. Of a sort....
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Ok this is past teasing ... it's torture ...
Char Site | My DeviantArt
Global=@Thornster
I wanna know how many Epic Power Pools there are... is it generalised like one for Fire users, one for Ice etc. Is there one for every single Primary/Secondary powerset, or one for every single combination of Primary/Secondary (unlikely, I know)?
Needs more infosss!
Maybe at solo they are about 90%ish as effective as a similar offensive or defensive AT. But in a group of 2-4ish they are greater than or equal to a similar offensive or defensive AT. Maybe in groups of 8 they are extra scrumptulescient.
Will that make them a little weaker in solo? Yes. But they deserve it. If they are crazy powerful in big groups, they shouldn't be so solo also. If a player wants to solo an AT that has been expressly explained, right up front, as a group AT, and specifically needs to gain power from teamates, then ok. but dont expect to do it well. This is of course speculation. They just might solo splendiferously.
I don't think this will replace other ATs in big groups. Another <enter AT here> will always add to the offense, defense, or utility of the group. And since they can't suck energy from eachother (speculation like the rest of this) you wouldn't see teams full of them.
Just more guesses.
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Why would I want someone in my group who sucks my endurance every time they use a power?
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Because they are using that end to make the group arrest faster and/or stay alive, and probably using it more efficiently than you.
With an RA (or its cousin AM) in the group who cares? They may have their own version of RA...
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And there's Shapeshifting. Of a sort....
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I would go out a limb to say this shapeshifting will most likely be the ability to "infest" a normal villain and take control of his body for a short time.
@artphobia
To the best dev team ever: I enjoyed meeting you all at the Summits and best of luck in all your future endeavors.
I just have one question...
Will you have to re-earn all your badges when you start in an epic AT, or will you be able to keep them and get a halo around them when they are "re-earned?"
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I think he meant 16 new primary and secondary powers.
As in, 8 new primary and secondary powers for each AT.
Many powersets share certain powers with each other, aim, buildup, and taunt namely.
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Is Statesman really that hard to read? I mean, this is like when he said that stone, dark, and ice would get stackable armors, and people said he was talking about art. Does no one read for context anymore?
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I agree that feeding is a lost artform 
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So...because of all the time being spent to make these new powers and ATs, basically I can kiss whatever chance Ice Armor had in being fixed in Issue 3 goodbye?
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From the Warcry interview:
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The development team seems very dedicated to reviewing each archetype and making adjustments accordingly. What archetype is highest priority on the tweak hit-list at the moment and what changes are in the planning stages?
The number one priority is tweaking the mob control abilities of Tankers. Right now, the Archetype cant quite hold aggro well enough without resorting to Power Pool powers. Secondly, wed like to fix some Tanker Defense sets that arent up to snuff either in looks or in power. Next in line are AOE attacks and how overwhelmingly effective they are. Well placed blasts can nullify the usefulness of many Archetypes.
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Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
Infernius:
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It's sure sounding like this expansion has some nice stuff - if you're over level 40. Am i the only one who seems to see that at least 2/3 of all the new content introduced into the game has been aimed at high level players? It's looking more and more like the developers don't care about anyone under level 20 that plays.
Issue 1 - Game is finished as intended by initial release design
Issue 2 - Screwed over low level players with design errors in the hollows, added lots of nice effects and another extra zone for high level players, effects and capes if you were not under level 20.
Issue 3 - More high level stuff and no mention of stuff for low levels (yet). It's like the percentage of players who aret 38+ don't matter in terms of content for them - oh sure...we get the odd revisited and updated mission, but when it comes to anything else we are just expected to patiently wait through the 2-3 month publish cycles so they can add more for the high levels and tell us to wait again.
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Dunno if you are the only one, but if I was just looking for an argument, I might rephrase as:
Issue 2: screwed over high levels with a zone that kills everyone once you figure out how to get to any part of it, negates 3 of the 4 travel powers, and leaves you with the one that moves like grass grows, added an extra zone for lower levels with content high levels can only really see by using the oft-broken EXM feature, while offering capes and auras beginning at the low level of 20.
Issue 3: Adding way for 50s to progress by becoming 1s.
I suppose you probably think the Epic ATs are just a conspiracy to allow the 50s to take over the Hollows with Kheldians, too.
In fact, lower levels now have huge mission bonuses, more inf, badges that can be had starting at level 1, end-of-arc rewards, access to instanced outdoor missions (not just portal), the hollows zone, and quite frankly, calling capes a high level treat is like calling perez a high level zone. Plus, respec at 24, less lower level mezzing, and special events that cross all the zones, not just the high ones.
Most of my play time is under L38. A large bulk under 20. I don't feel especially neglected. In fact, the lower levels feel much more fun than the first time around. I know a lot of people that feel similarly. In fact, just mission bonuses and badges have turned hardened street grinders the first time around into mission runners the second time around. I would say that is dramatic change.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
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Dunno if you are the only one, but if I was just looking for an argument, I might rephrase as:
Issue 2: screwed over high levels with a zone that kills everyone once you figure out how to get to any part of it, negates 3 of the 4 travel powers, and leaves you with the one that moves like grass grows, added an extra zone for lower levels with content high levels can only really see by using the oft-broken EXM feature, while offering capes and auras beginning at the low level of 20.
Issue 3: Adding way for 50s to progress by becoming 1s.
I suppose you probably think the Epic ATs are just a conspiracy to allow the 50s to take over the Hollows with Kheldians, too.
In fact, lower levels now have huge mission bonuses, more inf, badges that can be had starting at level 1, end-of-arc rewards, access to instanced outdoor missions (not just portal), the hollows zone, and quite frankly, calling capes a high level treat is like calling perez a high level zone. Plus, respec at 24, less lower level mezzing, and special events that cross all the zones, not just the high ones.
Most of my play time is under L38. A large bulk under 20. I don't feel especially neglected. In fact, the lower levels feel much more fun than the first time around. I know a lot of people that feel similarly. In fact, just mission bonuses and badges have turned hardened street grinders the first time around into mission runners the second time around. I would say that is dramatic change.
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Yep the lower levels are so much faster then they were before and it is much more fun. I'm starting to dread getting my controller to level 40 because there are far fewer options for a group reliant character at the high levels. No one wants to go to shadow shard or the crash site and I cant say I blame them.
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No one wants to go to shadow shard or the crash site and I cant say I blame them.
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And that's why those zones will get some attention...
My overall personal favourite thing about the EATs is that it will make the lower lvls fun again. Its taken me since release to get to lvl 33 with my defender and lvl 21 with my blaster and the time up until that was spent mostly creating alts trying to find my 'nice' combination of AT and powers. The number of alts i created must be close to triple figures i swear lol.
And the problem i h ave is that now i have my defender aproaching the higher lvl stuff...the lower level stuff just seems a bit small fry. Not to mention i'm used to how effective and efficient SOs make my powers having spent so much time on every lvl, spoilt by SOs i guess.
But to have some more options to start again would intrest me greatly, i've tried numerous times to find another AT that i like to counteract the sometimes boring nature of my heavilly group based defensive dark/dark defender and if there are going to be a lot of people looking for groups that suits me down to the ground anyway, i play the game to socialise, compete with and against other people.
I'm not sure how i envisage the EATs working tbh. i have my ideas, but its difficult to form any sort of accurate description without knowing key factors like the definition of 'power boost' and whether the power boost affects all powers oronly a select few powers, only the pirmary or secondry. WHO KNOWS! not us, and probably not truly until we get a chance to test them.
epic pools....i'm a bit wary of this. i was especially suprised to see this statement by..statesman in the interview:
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A Defender and a Blaster want personal defense powers
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well blasters, ok i'll give em that. but defenders wanting personal defenses? the only defender set i can see that has a real problem with personal defense is forcefields that hardly benefit at all from their own powers. Empathy as well to a certain degree but at least they can moderately heal and buff themselves. But the other 4 sets can benefit from just about all their own powers. If anything i would agree that the above quote and other similar quotes are true BUT, i would ask that not all the epic pools be based around those statesman interview posts.
I would want the option for more dmg and would actually prefer it. i would also welcome the ability for similar powers to other the defender sets. For example forcefield defs might like the ability to control mobs somewhat or have some form of ae heal. epic pools are the perfect set up for PvP if you ask me. rather than creating massive weakness of the paper rock scissors kind of scale like other PvP games, i have hopes that it will round off the ATs more solidly and offer anyone a chance to compete against any other AT, albeit to a lesser degree.
This however is assuming i will reach 50 this side of 2010
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No one wants to go to shadow shard or the crash site and I cant say I blame them.
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And that's why those zones will get some attention...
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If they're going to get some attention please, please change the Shadow Shard missions. After playing in the Hollows and seeing the cohesive storyline with all those missions, I've realized just how mundane Shadow Shard's missions are. It's "save him," "look at a monument," "get me fruit" over and over again. There's no story arc at all. You can't learn anything about the Shadow Shard unless you do the Task Forces. There's no point to doing the mission aside from the exp you get (and most of these missions are pretty small.)
As far as other things, I think Shadow Shard would highly benefit from giving players jet packs or something easier to get around. Those vents often don't get you to the next island. Thankfully, I have teleport and can avoid them. I've tried several times using the vents while I explore, and inevitably, and up having to teleport anyways.
The Rikti Crash Site would benefit a lot from there being an easier way to get there.
Yeah, i was going to say that the crash site isn't that bad of a zone, it's just "too far out of the way" to be a worthwhile playing area. If it were a bit more accessable with a store to sell at, I would imagine it would be a much more popular alternative to PI.
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No one wants to go to shadow shard or the crash site and I cant say I blame them.
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And that's why those zones will get some attention...
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And while you're at it, give Faultline some attention. Seriously, does anyone other than a tiny minority of players ever go to Faultline once the "Defeat X Vahz" mission is done? Maybe just adding a cool story arc about the villain Faultline would be enough.
Dwimble
Or....Faultline fix? Lets reclaim part of Faultline, one block at a time. Part of a continuing story to fix that area.....
muffinlad
I bet they're like defenders who can target themselves.
-Mike
I've done it twice. First time, it was to trade out powers I never used to get stamina, and I got superspeed, since I had hasten. The second time, it was to ditch hasten and superspeed because while more effective, it didn't fit my character concept.
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Why are people using up all their Respec's in quick succession? The feature has been existant on the Live servers for less than 2 months and players have rebooted their builds 2 and 3 times? I Respec'd my character once to familiarize the process and swap out a power. I'm actually having buyer's remorse because he wasn't gimped originally by any means.
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Yeah I was IN the Faultline for the FIRST time 2 nights ago - looking for badges.
I never collect badges, but a couple days ago I broke down and I decided my main would have as many as I could get to that point (lvl 32) just for kicks.
I've got, as I've probably stated too many times so far, 1300+ documentable hours playing the game, and I've been in Faultline probably least of all of them. And only for a couple hunt Vahz missions that required me to go there.
Anyhow, I went all over that zone, and I was extremely impressed by it. That zone got so much attention in terms of map design, I am just amazed by it. I think out of all the stock zones, that's the most interesting one, and the best designed zone.
And sadly, the least visited zone. Or close to it.
There has GOT to be some way of making that zone more travelled. It's just too cool to neglect.
Now mind you, it's probably the most dangerous zone for it's level, but if it was given some value to maybe the 20+ crowd, that would help. There would really be just terrain to deal with, not danger everywhere.
I agree. Have you guys been to the Rikti Crash Site, or the Shadow Shard? They are really, really, awesome(ly designed, physically), as is Faultline. It takes forever to get through the shadow shard though, and well... my blaster can't giht Rikti, although I really enjoyed surfing the spaceship (I won't give more details so as not to spoil it anymore... But it is in the upper, leftish central area). It would be cool if those areas are more often traversed.
I'm surprised they went the group route, since I don't see these epic AT's being wanted much in groups. The jack of all trades, master o' none thing is great for solo, but crappy in a group role where you're easily outperformed. I play a scrapper- I know.
So basically we have a character who needs lots of group members, and can do anything. He can snap off, (made up example) a RA, and can do decent damage melee damage. But any defender can pull off a better RA, (and more buffs to boot.) and any scrapper/blaster can do more damage than the EAT. So why have one that is focused on grouping?
Well, that's just my opinion.
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They are the conduit, but everyone else is providing the energy.
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Why would I want someone in my group who sucks my endurance every time they use a power?
Dawnslayer on Virtue.