Have you played the end game of most MMOs? CoH is nowhere near as "grindy" as them. The ONLY end game "power" that a solo or small team cannot accomplish is Hybrid. Had CoH lived...there was already plans for a small team/solo option for Hybrid.
You are right that pvp has ALWAYS been borked in CoH...which is why on my wishlist of a CoH2 ...pvp never exists.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Xzero45
I completely disagree with that. Sure, he may have been around the longest, but that doesn't mean he always made smart decisions. He actually became pretty close minded as the years went by. I really feel like a new CoH could easily survive without him, and maybe even do better with fresh blood. We could get an actual endgame that doesn't punish small team/solo players, or force the player to grind as badly as ours did. Not to mention implementing a better PvP system and getting a lead designer that's actually familiar with the lore.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
|
Quote:
And it would be on the same geological time scale as DA to keep the fast track raiders feeling like special unique snowflakes.
|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Had CoH lived...there was already plans for a small team/solo option for Hybrid.
|
Well considering most people team - that kinda makes business sense to cater to those people. It was never about persecuting soloers as much as they like to play the martyr role. I did the solo path on one of my toons (Well ok Duoed with a friend) and had no issues getting all my incarnate stuff. Then again I really liked playing my toon and it wasn't about how fast can I get the shiney. And for some reason on that toon during the DA arcs...I got a purple drop every day so in the end I made out nicely 
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ogi
And it would be on the same geological time scale as DA to keep the fast track raiders feeling like special unique snowflakes.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
|
Mad ranter here, with probably my last rant. I have no hate to devs, but I know after this awesome game goes down I will never buy into NCsoft or arenanet again. My suspicion of another hero game will not appear from them, could be due to they we're sued and thats why heroes closed again that is my theory. I believe I speak for us all I hope in saying blessings to the devs on getting employed good work guys, and godspeed.
Far as what now, I tried lots of MMORPG'S what do we have hmmm. Coh was truly on the money not far from the truth of what a hero game is to be like. CO is nice if you like comic book drawing graphics, action was ok, missions were ok, travel powers are truly unmatched awesome in that department, then whats wrong I felt like my powers we're not as fluent as CoH. My battles in CoH really felt like I did all the work. Wind blast that knocks you back I only wished for weather effect to feel after that lol. The stats in CoH made since, other hero games fail at IMHO granted I only played 2 other hero games CO, n DCUO . DCUO mimics heroes graphics more closely though I believe it surpasses CoH, hey we did awesome to be old. DCUO has a great game engine, controls are a bit woncky, but fights aside from controls are like heroes. I suspect its the targeting or your mouse not controlling the HUD is it. DCUO also has a decent character building options close as CoH. Grappling exist to an extent in CO, aswell as DCUO I like the idea but both games need grappling tweaked. CO did a better job in that department IMHO. Its been a while playing CO, but both I believe let you start with travel powers. I have not met end game of the 2, because im not sure which to accept DCUO is closer only cause I hate CO graphics. DCUO just added sg bases which are actual buildings in the city from what i've heard of it, and with there engine I think vehicles are right behind it. CO your strength justifies what you can lift and carry, something to grow on cryptic is doing awesome since leaving us.
So that is my positive help on us being able to follow the devs and move on. GL to you all I will miss you all here on CoH/CoV. I hope to play with you in the others if you should choose 1 of the 2 options of hero games. Should neither be a choice WoW is not so bad as it was made out to be, and after trying it, it is and was never our competiton completely different style. We only shared population numbers with WoW. To the game that makes you happy GL guys.
Party on Devs, party on Peeps of CoH/CoV
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Have you played the end game of most MMOs? CoH is nowhere near as "grindy" as them. The ONLY end game "power" that a solo or small team cannot accomplish is Hybrid. Had CoH lived...there was already plans for a small team/solo option for Hybrid.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Well considering most people team - that kinda makes business sense to cater to those people. It was never about persecuting soloers as much as they like to play the martyr role. I did the solo path on one of my toons (Well ok Duoed with a friend) and had no issues getting all my incarnate stuff.
|
Running just one Underground Trial (which takes about an hour and a half) earned me the remaining 90% and even got me about 5% into the next two Incarnate Powers.
That was Matt "Positron" Miller's vision. The disparity between the two examples above is absolutely ridiculous, but the guy did not care one bit. He actually said he didn't even expect solo/small team players to want an endgame option and was completely surprised when players complained about the forced league content. Which is funny considering CoH has been giving small team/solo players regular content and quality of life improvements for 6 years. Hell, Praetoria is practically unplayable on a large team. And this has always been a draw for CoH; that, if you wanted, you almost always had the option to play it solo.
And this is just one problem of many with his end game Incarnate system and overall "vision".
Quote:
| You are right that pvp has ALWAYS been borked in CoH...which is why on my wishlist of a CoH2 ...pvp never exists. |
CoH is the only one I know of that kept giving you new powers to play with and new ways to play your character right up to the level cap — and beyond.
Most MMOs' endgame consists of grinding one dungeon over and over hoping for a 0.00001% drop so that you can increase your stats by a tiny amount.
Was the Incarnate system perfect? No, of course not. As said, the solo path could and should have been a lot faster (but who knows - if the game had gone on longer, maybe we could have talked the devs into it), and having a limited selection of trials made it a bit grindy itself (but with an ever-growing number of iTrials, that was becoming less of an issue).
But it was better than 99% of what's out there.
With the team broken up and moving on to different places, all of which are desperately aping WoW (in play mechanics, if not necessarily in setting), I don't know if we'll ever see a game like this one again. And that makes me very sad.
Quote:
Never got a purple drop nor anything above an uncommon incarnate salvage drop solo, the incarnate threads rarely dropped, and had to rely mostly on the guranteed drops for completing the arcs. That made progress very slow compared to the rest of the game. But yea, it seemed that it was not meant to be made for solo, and the game was made for teams. One reasons why I love CO. I can hop on at 3 am on a Tuesday and get things done at a good pace instead of feeling limited on the big stuff/progress because most people went to bed on the weekday due to work or school so basically have to time my schedule up with theirs just to get what I wish to get done. COX seems to be aimed at team folk and while solo play is allowed it dont seem to be really encouraged. CO on the other hand seems like teaming is allowed but really not needed besides very very few instances and the alerts but no big bonus for doing over soloing. Two different target audiences. COX targeted and catered to the bigger group of teamers. CO seems to cater to soloists which seems to consist of their greater population although many teamers of the COX type is popping up more and more on that COX channel.
|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Well considering most people team - that kinda makes business sense to cater to those people. It was never about persecuting soloers as much as they like to play the martyr role. I did the solo path on one of my toons (Well ok Duoed with a friend) and had no issues getting all my incarnate stuff. Then again I really liked playing my toon and it wasn't about how fast can I get the shiney. And for some reason on that toon during the DA arcs...I got a purple drop every day so in the end I made out nicely
|
-Female Player-
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
Quote:
Melissa "War Witch" Bianco has been with the game since February 2002. so yes, she's been there all along. I think from some things that were said at various events over the years that she was there before Matt. Since I can't find anything listing his start date like I did Melissa's, I'll have to rely on inference from other things that were said over the years.|
Originally Posted by Starsman
Matt Miller is the key figure. I think he is the only one in the team (unless there are some non-public faces) that has been part of the team since launch until cancelation. He did not have his fingers on every bit of the game, but he has the closest thing to a "game vision" that you can get.
|
Going from Staff Game Designer to Senior Game Designer to Lead Designer to Producer gives a pretty good idea that she has a pretty good "game vision" as well.
EDIT: Well, I found his LinkedIn page lists from July 2003 at Cryptic, so that would mean Melissa was there a year and 5 months longer.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
Quote:
Completely agree. I've been saying for years the game was getting stale. I also think adding currencies and salvage was a waste. The salvage system was a nuisance when crafting. The content was repetitive - it's nice to change the story but when the look is the same over and over then it gets tired and old. I know the budget was an issue but this is a game first before a story. The super long drawn out story lines going over multiple issues was a poor idea (Praetoria, Coming Storm etc). These plots should have been no longer than 2-3 issues. When you get 3-4 issues a year a multiple issue arc is not a great idea.|
Originally Posted by Xzero45
I completely disagree with that. Sure, he may have been around the longest, but that doesn't mean he always made smart decisions. He actually became pretty close minded as the years went by. I really feel like a new CoH could easily survive without him, and maybe even do better with fresh blood. We could get an actual endgame that doesn't punish small team/solo players, or force the player to grind as badly as ours did. Not to mention implementing a better PvP system and getting a lead designer that's actually familiar with the lore.
|
Anyway, some change of direction would've been nice but lesson learned. Still enjoyed it and kept coming back. Just some constructive criticism, I guess
Quote:
Yea missed that, although she was in the back of my head when i wrote that. I just had (and perhaps still do) she was not actually part of the development team until at least after launch. I was under the impression she was either Q&A or had a community role at least at launch, and slowly dipped her feet into the game dev side of things. But yea, given today she is lead designer and has been around all this time, she would be definitively a key figure.
|
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Melissa "War Witch" Bianco has been with the game since February 2002. so yes, she's been there all along. I think from some things that were said at various events over the years that she was there before Matt. Since I can't find anything listing his start date like I did Melissa's, I'll have to rely on inference from other things that were said over the years.
|
Quote:
Don't forget the Uncanny valley. The closer you get to realism, the less realistic it looks. This can easily been seen in DCUO, and a little big in CO. Their engines and lighting are a higher quality, yet someone make the game look worse, and more fake than even the early art from COH. Especially if you're not running it at the highest setting.
|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Everyone keeps saying they would love an MMO built around some high end FPS engine. The problem with that is it significantly reduces the number of machines that could possibly run it which in turn means you will need a fairly large percentage of owners of those machines to buy the game. And those who don't have the hardware will complain that the game looks ugly when they are forced to crank all the settings to minimum simply to get a playable frame rate at a non-native resolution. One of the reasons for WoW's success was that it played well on the integrated Intel, nVidia and AMD/ATI graphic solutions at the time, that you didn't need an expensive gaming desktop or laptop to play the game.
Couple that with the fact we have total freedom of movement in all 3 dimensions as oppose to the "run on rails" style that many FPS games with modern engines use to hide the fact that many of the buildings are nothing but a facade, a Potemkin village that only looks good from the angles you are allowed to view it from. |
Quote:
Zwill! How could you?!|
Originally Posted by corinna
And it looks like Zwillinger landed at EA, aka the dark side.
|
Unless you plan to destroy them from the inside out. In which case, get on with it, Hero! It's up to you to cleanse this filth from the gaming world!
No, no I am not kidding. EA deserves to crash and burn almost more than NCSoft do...
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
Quote:
Now lets translate this to a game like WoW, go try to get the end-game merit-thingy they use to progress for end-game armor in a team in random dungeons.|
Originally Posted by Xzero45
Running two hours worth of the solo path I earned enough iXP to make 10% progress on my first two Incarnate powers. This was with difficulty settings set to +1/x4.
Running just one Underground Trial (which takes about an hour and a half) earned me the remaining 90% and even got me about 5% into the next two Incarnate Powers. |
Then do the same solo... oh wait: they dont let you even do ANY progress towards that solo.
Quote:
Soooo this means that WoW is totally teamed based and COX only recommends that it be done the team way?|
Originally Posted by Starsman
Now lets translate this to a game like WoW, go try to get the end-game merit-thingy they use to progress for end-game armor in a team in random dungeons.
Then do the same solo... oh wait: they dont let you even do ANY progress towards that solo. |
But on the other end of the spectrum like CO, COX might as well be WoW.
On another note, that may explain why WoW is the big dawg of the MMO world. COX, not grindy enough for the grinders but too grindy for the non-grinders. When WoW came along, it seems that millions of people 8-10 million or so, prefered it the WoW way, no way to do it unless ya team. Then the other way of COX, teaming is efficient but solo is grind hell compared. And less grindy games have even less population than COX. Yet, the news of a grind fest and think it's bad thing, by the words but flock to it when it hits the market. So really what is a game maker looking to make a heap money to think? Lets see follow the footsteps of less grind to no grind games which seem to attract maybe a 100,000 people or follow the steps of the grind game(s) that have millions that seem to do not mind grinding and will do so for years on end. It makes it look as games like COX is a mere niche market and very risky. While grind games are mainstream here in the states.
-Female Player-
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
Synapse is working on Wildstar for NCSoft
Currently Playing:
Rage King - SS/Regen Brute (50+3)
Soulfire Darkness - Dark/Fire Tank (50+2)
Deaths Final Embrace - Kat/Dark Brute (50+3)
ULTIMATE REGEN GUIDE I22
Quote:
In an interview a year or so back, she said she actually started out as an office manager, doing filing and data entry, and slowly worked her way up the design-side hierarchy to Producer.|
Originally Posted by Starsman
Yea missed that, although she was in the back of my head when i wrote that. I just had (and perhaps still do) she was not actually part of the development team until at least after launch. I was under the impression she was either Q&A or had a community role at least at launch, and slowly dipped her feet into the game dev side of things. But yea, given today she is lead designer and has been around all this time, she would be definitively a key figure.
|
Edit: found the interview: http://www.gamingangels.com/2011/04/...lead-designer/
So she was there from the beginning, but not in a major role at first.
Quote:
| Synapse is working on Wildstar for NCSoft |
Any bets on how long it'll take before he's out of work again due to NCSoft abruptly killing Wildstar without warning?
Quote:
2-3 years. But maybe Synapse will jump ship and find better before then.
|
Originally Posted by Thunder Knight
Any bets on how long it'll take before he's out of work again due to NCSoft abruptly killing Wildstar without warning?
|
Quote:
False. Pandaria dailies in WoW give Valor Points now.
| Then do the same solo... oh wait: they dont let you even do ANY progress towards that solo. |
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Quote:
Wow, wut? :P Unless NC has decided to make him the Token PS Guy to try and take the edge off our anger at their new releases....|
Originally Posted by planet_J
Synapse is working on Wildstar for NCSoft
|
Eesh. Oh well, I'm glad he's putting bread on the table, but personally I don't think I could work for a company that so nastily canned my entire former dev team and so unfairly deep-sixed a game I'd worked on.... Color me surprised on that one.
At least with Zwill and EA, he probably doesn't have any past negative experiences with them so they're more of a blank slate with a bad rep....
Quote:
Yes, she started as Office Manager but moved into the Development team. World Design was where she started if I remember correctly. |
Originally Posted by Starsman
Yea missed that, although she was in the back of my head when i wrote that. I just had (and perhaps still do) she was not actually part of the development team until at least after launch. I was under the impression she was either Q&A or had a community role at least at launch, and slowly dipped her feet into the game dev side of things. But yea, given today she is lead designer and has been around all this time, she would be definitively a key figure.
|
She's listed as part of Development on the credits from the initial launch of the game along with Jack Emmert, Al Rivera, Sean Fish, Matt Miller, Craig Zinkievich, Michael Lewis, Brian Gilmore, EJ Nelson, David Wood and Jane Kalmes. Of those, Jack, Craig and Michael were also on the Management team along with Bruce Rogers (Programming) and Matt Harvey (Art).
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
Quote:
Is Carbine Studios actually owned by NCSoft or are they independently owned?
|
Originally Posted by planet_J
Synapse is working on Wildstar for NCSoft
|
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
Quote:
Same setup as Paragon Studios was/is as far as i remember.
|
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Is Carbine Studios actually owned by NCSoft or are they independently owned?
|
You can't fault the Dev Formerly Known as Synapse for taking a job to put food on the table, but I do find it a pity that it may be years before I ever get to see his work again.
('Cause I am NEVER buying another NCSoft Game.)
My COX Fanfiction:
Blue's Assembled Story Links
Quote:
Thanks. |
Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
Same setup as Paragon Studios was/is as far as i remember.
|
It's a bit hard to tell when you look at their website and in particular their About Us page.
I still wish Phil well. I wasn't planning on playing WildStar anyway and I certainly won't be playing it now. When November 30 comes I'm hanging up my gaming hat.
This dog's too old to learn new tricks.
Or at least too old to be willing to learn new tricks.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
One thing that strikes me in all of the comparisons between CoH, CO, and DCUO: City of Heroes, as it is now, comes out way ahead in many areas. But let's look at a more equalized playing field. How did City of Heroes, at its 1-, 2- or 3-year point, stack up against the other two at the same points in time? It's been fairly easy to choose the much-more-developed City of Heroes over the other superhero MMOs, the question of lacking or undesirable features aside, at least as I understand most opinions. I've not played the other two, myself.
Let's say, then, for the sake of argument, that a CoH2 did come along. Matt Miller may or may not be involved. Really neat things, as well as the things most people love about the game (costume creator, powers customization, travel powers, etc.), could be included. Still, one has to take into account that a new superherp MMO (CoH2, say) is going to very likely be much more limited than the CoH of today. The game we love today was built up to be what it is over several years, and some say (with good reason, surely) that it's a radically different beast now than when it started.
So, CoH2 may well suffer in comparison to City of Heroes, just like CO and DCUO, if only for the fact that it will not have had time to develop into a richer game. Trying to include at CoH2's launch all of the things that CoH has now would probably mean a development process of 4 to 6 years.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that we are faced with three possibilities that are the most likely: CoH2 never comes to pass; CoH2 arrives, but is disappointing to all those who may have kinda expected to keep playing CoH as it stands now, only with (better) differences and new things that are received very positively, but instead got a much rawer and less-developed game; or CoH2 is in development for several years in an attempt to be a real and awesome successor (in which case, investors are likely to push for earlier release, and even the most loyal players of today may not be around to "come back").
Titan's Plan Z "spiritual successor" fits into the above somewhere, or stands as a fourth possibility, but probably won't be able to avoid years of development and will then have to try to attract a playerbase that has largely moved on.
I mostly feel bleak about City of Heroes these days, and continue to work on my gathering of screenshots. Actually playing seems pointless and depressing to boot. I wonder what part of the grieving process I'm in now? I have bouts of thankfulness for the years of enjoyment I got out of the game, so there's that. Okay, back to work...
M. Bison: For you, the day Bison graced your village was the most important day of your life. But for me...it was Tuesday.
-- Street Fighter (1994)
McClane: Hey, thanks for saving my daughter's life.
Farrell: What was I going to do?
McClane: That's what makes you "that guy."
-- Live Free or Die Hard (2007)