*CENSORED* NCSOFT! KILL! MAIM! WHARGARBL! (Or not...please!)
By
Atlantea,
Posted on: 2012-09-13 17:01 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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As do I. After the announcement and saw that I was no longer VIP I haven't even attempted to log into the game. It would just piss me off further. Since then I've been playing DCUO and really liking it. I can't see playing it as much as I did CoX, there's not that much depth, but it's a welcome diversion. Tried Champions Online and The Secret World, didn't care for either of them. Setup accounts in Dungeons and Dragons Online and Lord of the Rings Online but havn't spent much time playing those. |
Originally Posted by Severe
With a new game out that pretty much kills any chance left...jobs are lost and ncsoft has moved on. Really guys.ts great to be optmistic and all...but im realistic. In my eyes i see this as over.
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There's a new one in Steam's Greenlight area called Perpetuum where you operate giant robots either to help a new planet's economy by mining, or defend it by fighting. Has a 15 day free trial, downloaded that last night and will register and play probably tonight, and another one available through Steam, can't remember the exact name, C9 or something. Was just released by Steam's Greenlight program, but looked pretty interesting: Fantasy MMORPG but the class system and the leveling system seemed pretty different.
So yeah, I've accepted the fact that CoX probably won't be coming back. If it does I'll be overjoyed, but my hopes get a little slimmer each day.
Here we go again, telling people how to feel right now.
I got news for you. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Where there is fire, there is emotion. Where there is emotion for a cause, there is effort. Where there is effort, there is a better chance of achieving goals!!!
You put out the fire.............you lose. You lose momentum. You lose the passion. You lose the care.
And I still stand by saying if NCSoft doesn't want people mad at them, then do some PR like any legitimate business knows how to do, and heal the wounds their own corporate decision caused. It's very simple. SAY SOMETHING. It's good to see that not only is it this potential profit and STILL QUITE ACTIVE fan basethey have dismayed, but also FUTURE business. Forecast is very important to business when making decisions and require good Public Relations.
People are rightly upset by the way this was done. The ball is in THEIR court if mad people somehow hurt their feelings, enough to ruin "negotiations". I'm not even sure how that is even logical.
"Well OK, we realize what a supportive customer base there was with this game, and how much money they are willing to still spend, we had no idea how they were so collectively bonded together showing such dedication to the game. Why they even all just bought the developers lunch. We missed out on a huge profit margin here, that while it may not be enough for us to justify, it may be enough of a money pot for another company to buy from us and support. OH WAIT WHAT IS THIS? HOW COULD PLAYER_HERO_X SAY SUCH A THING. I'M SO HURT, MY FEELINGS ARE HURT. GET ME A TISSUE. THE DEAL IS OFF!!!"
Let's be realistic here.
Keep the fire going. It's going very well. Emotion is good. Focussed emotion, yes, that I will give you. Not some insane off the wall stuff, no. But focussed accurate emotion, yes. And the stance that because of the manner in which is was done, future business will be impacted? Definitely. Yet they can still resolve this, the ball is in their court.
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I think those numbers are going to stay just as good as they planned, seeing as how there's a few CoH forum posters and plenty of CoH players, who picked up and still play GW2, even after the CoH news.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
We'll just see how those numbers keep going after the CoH fallout settles.
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And while a lot of MMO communities have been supportive of the CoH fan base, remember, before then, a lot of them were saying "CoH isn't my type of game"
Hopefully, NC will sell the IP to whoever, so it can continue
Hopefully if they do, there isn't a long downtime.Though, with all the devs fired and looking for new jobs, will we even have the same dev team, if the game's IP is purchased by someone else?
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Damn straight. |
Originally Posted by Knight_of_Armor
Here we go again, telling people how to feel right now.
I got news for you. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Where there is fire, there is emotion. Where there is emotion for a cause, there is effort. Where there is effort, there is a better chance of achieving goals!!! You put out the fire.............you lose. You lose momentum. You lose the passion. You lose the care. And I still stand by saying if NCSoft doesn't want people mad at them, then do some PR like any legitimate business knows how to do, and heal the wounds their own corporate decision caused. It's very simple. SAY SOMETHING. It's good to see that not only is it this potential profit and STILL QUITE ACTIVE fan basethey have dismayed, but also FUTURE business. Forecast is very important to business when making decisions and require good Public Relations. People are rightly upset by the way this was done. The ball is in THEIR court if mad people somehow hurt their feelings, enough to ruin "negotiations". I'm not even sure how that is even logical. "Well OK, we realize what a supportive customer base there was with this game, and how much money they are willing to still spend, we had no idea how they were so collectively bonded together showing such dedication to the game. Why they even all just bought the developers lunch. We missed out on a huge profit margin here, that while it may not be enough for us to justify, it may be enough of a money pot for another company to buy from us and support. OH WAIT WHAT IS THIS? HOW COULD PLAYER_HERO_X SAY SUCH A THING. I'M SO HURT, MY FEELINGS ARE HURT. GET ME A TISSUE. THE DEAL IS OFF!!!" Let's be realistic here. Keep the fire going. It's going very well. Emotion is good. Focussed emotion, yes, that I will give you. Not some insane off the wall stuff, no. But focussed accurate emotion, yes. |
Stating our opinions about NCSoft and how they have pissed us off is not going to destroy any deals going on in the background. I mean C'MON - that they've angered us is hardly going to be a SURPRISE.
I'm not going to worry about their sensitive feelings when I remember that this is hardly their first time at this dance. With all the games they've killed, I would think they'd be more than used to a little fan anger.
I also agree with doubts that they give a care towards much that goes on in the forums (as long as it isn't calls for physical violence or something stupid like that).
But this time it may be just a little bit different. I have to wonder if one interpretation of their behaviour is correct - that they actually ARE surprised at the reaction to the closing. And that their silence is more because of shock and indecision.
They may have snuck GW2 out the gates and had digital pre-orders from many gamers who cannot back out now. And I can't begrudge those gamers wanting to play GW2 if they can't get their money back. My friends who bought GW2 unknowing of what was going to happen are going to go ahead and play. It's not like they can get their money back now. But they know that I will not be joining them. And they know why and sympathize. They've also said they won't be spending any money for anything else from NCSoft and that they don't trust NCSoft any further than they can throw them.
NCSoft had better get over their indecision quick and SAY SOMETHING. The longer NCSoft goes without saying anything, the worse it's going to get for their reputation.
To paraphrase J. Jonah. Jameson: "What are they? Shy? NCSoft doesn't want to be famous? Then we'll make them INFAMOUS!"
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We haven't been at those numbers for years, more like half that number.|
Originally Posted by Cobra_Man
3. They would like to have a ready made playerbase that already play other NCsoft games in the west ...... oh, hang on ... they have that already with the 100k - 150k CoH playerbase.
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We are a $10 million a year game that's owned by a company that had direct game revenues of $500 million in 2011. We are a small town with a K-mart and Sears decided to close it because it doesn't bring in enough sales. Of course the townsfolk are ticked off since they now have to drive 40 minutes round trip to get to the nearest discount department store. And if everyone in town vowed never to spend another dime in a Sears or K-mart, would that loss of revenue matter to a company that large? No. That what happened to that town would alter the shopping habits of the public at large? No.
We can try to raise awareness but most people will simply draw the conclusion that superhero MMOs aren't all that popular while the rest would admire or ridicule our attempts to keep the game going but few if any would boycott a game company simply because it shuttered a small game. That would be like hipster west coasters boycotting Apple products due to working conditions in China.
Today's game media is telling everyone that GW2 is the cat's meow so MMO players with a little extra cash (since it's a buy once, no subscription) to give it a try. TSW sells only 200K copies while GW2 sells 2 million. What does that say about subscription based MMOs or MMOs that stray to far out of the fantasy world genre or standard MMO trope gameplay?
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
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Well, we *could* have that number, although then that would mean that over the half the player base would be non subscribers or premium players who don't spend anything on the Paragon Market
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
We haven't been at those numbers for years, more like half that number.
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That's why TonyV has been busting his *** to get the word out quickly. That kind of publicity puts pressure on the NCSoft execs to make a definitive statement on whether or not the IP can be sold. Like you said, the longer we wait, the more likely we will lose Paragon Studios to diaspora.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Though, with all the devs fired and looking for new jobs, will we even have the same dev team, if the game's IP is purchased by someone else?
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@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
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The point still stands. |
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
We haven't been at those numbers for years, more like half that number.
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Many COH players would have played Guild Wars 2. Many still will - because they pre-ordered digitally and can't get their money back now.
But I have not heard of a single example of a City of Heroes player who had not already bought GW2 who will buy a copy after NCSoft guillotined Paragon Studios and kicked our beloved Devs to the curb.
Positive reputation by word of mouth is hard-earned and every company loves to have it.
Negative word of mouth can kill product lines and even entire companies dead.
NCSoft - the clock is ticking. The rumblings have started. You have a "golden hour" to change all this and save your reputation from the bargain bin. You've almost used all that time up. Miss that window and you'll regret it.
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Which is why we also need to maintain the pressure - it's quite possible that NCSoft were expecting only a few days of nerdraging that would soon die down - so we need to make sure that any plans they had for just toughing out the player response to the closure are wrecked by constant pressure on them from all angles.
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Originally Posted by Winterminal
That's why TonyV has been busting his *** to get the word out quickly. That kind of publicity puts pressure on the NCSoft execs to make a definitive statement on whether or not the IP can be sold. Like you said, the longer we wait, the more likely we will lose Paragon Studios to diaspora.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Oh, most definitely. I agree, pressure should be maintained, but in my opinion we should think more in terms of population rather than intensity. By that I mean that we should take the amount of pressure we have now and spread it among as many people as possible, rather than starting for the torches and pitchforks.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Which is why we also need to maintain the pressure - it's quite possible that NCSoft were expecting only a few days of nerdraging that would soon die down - so we need to make sure that any plans they had for just toughing out the player response to the closure are wrecked by constant pressure on them from all angles.
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@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
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But the torches and pitchforks are so much more FUN!
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Originally Posted by Winterminal
Oh, most definitely. I agree, pressure should be maintained, but in my opinion we should think more in terms of population rather than intensity. By that I mean that we should take the amount of pressure we have now and spread it among as many people as possible, rather than starting for the torches and pitchforks.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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True but we could have a million players and if they are only bringing in the revenues of 50-60K pre-Freedom subscribers does player numbers matter?
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Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
Well, we *could* have that number, although then that would mean that over the half the player base would be non subscribers or premium players who don't spend anything on the Paragon Market
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Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
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This. Doing whatever I can to save this game/community is far more important than indulging my so-very-justified fury. Frankly NCSoft could care less about my vitriol; and even if I could sway people with the skill of a freaking messiah to avoid their products the financial damage would still be negligible. So I channel my anger to keep me going with more civil means. And my best strategy is to continue to do so until all civil options have been exhausted. I am hardly unique in this situation.
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Originally Posted by TonyV
To be brutally honest, we don't. I suspect and speculate that it's true because of the continued radio silence, but the simple truth is that we don't know.
But consider this. If we assume that they are, keep a civil tone, and it turns out they're not, no harm done and we move on to our next plan. On the other hand, if we assume that they're not, go all nuclear, and it turns out that they were, we've blown a chance at keeping our game and an incredible team of people together that, for the sake of the gaming industry, really needs to stay together. So please don't go all nuclear yet. I know it's frustrating not getting any answers or gratification, but I knew that this wasn't going to happen in a few days. Keep playing, keep your spirits up, we'll help as much as we can with events like the upcoming Positron's Ally event next week, and we will get through this. |
The lid is on. I hold out some hope that negotiations will show promise.
However, on November 31st if there's no City of Heroes (or sooner if they give us an 'eff you we're closing it and no one is getting rights' announcement) the gloves are off.
(My Facebook campaign continues, but I did manage to get a 14 day posting, friending, and messaging ban. I guess NCSoft complained about the 'join my boycott' and 'This is what they did to COH' messages on their main and GW2 pages. Somebody noticed. Over 200 members and growing daily.)
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
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$10m in revenues, $2m of that profits per years post-Freedom. Just some numbers to think about.
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
True but we could have a million players and if they are only bringing in the revenues of 50-60K pre-Freedom subscribers does player numbers matter?
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Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
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I would be surprised if we have a November 31st.
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Originally Posted by Steele_Magnolia
However, on November 31st if there's no City of Heroes (or sooner if they give us an 'eff you we're closing it and no one is getting rights' announcement) the gloves are off.
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Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
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Show me the source of that $2 million profit number. NCSoft never reported profit or loss numbers for studios or games, just game revenue.
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Originally Posted by Steele_Magnolia
$10m in revenues, $2m of that profits per years post-Freedom. Just some numbers to think about.
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Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
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But any good detective would be a fool not to put it together.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
This never happened. As has been pointed out, it's a false correlation. B&S has been coming to the states for a while.
Correlation != Causation |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum Let me put this even more slowly. There are myriad reasons CoH was given the "Old Yeller". Ascribing it to any singular cause (as you are doing) is simply scapegoating. Sorry, but what you're doing is trying to oversimplify a complex issue. |
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| It isn't that simple. And the people at NCSoft aren't stupid. |
I don't know about their profits.
What I do know is that if you're planning to sunset a service, it might be a good idea to make sure your susbidiaries are in the loop enough that they aren't hyping that same service up. There is a graceful way to sign off and there is the total mess NCSoft created for themselves here.
A lot of the fighting back and forth seems to be focusing on the financial incentives and not on the way they did it. I don't care about boycotts or getting revenge. I do still think this has made them look incompetent.
To be honest, I don't have a lot of hope about "saving" this game. The mode I'm in now is trying to set a bottom line for companies about this mishandling and why it is NOT acceptable to accept payment from players for expansion packs on week and announce a three month cutoff date for the game a week later. NCSoft will get my sympathy when they show an ounce of respect for me or the investments I've made in them.
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Originally Posted by Siolfir
But the torches and pitchforks are so much more FUN!
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Yeah. But think about how much fun laughing at "DOOOOOM-sayers" will be if the game is saved.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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I don't care much about the discussion either way, but this is a great opportunity for me to launch into my favorite rant.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
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Occam's Razor doesn't mean the most intuitively simple explanation is the most likely correct; if that were the case, we would throw it out immediately because the most intuitively simple explanation is almost always a teleological one -- something like eg, "Because God wills it so." That's nonsense.
In actuality, Occam's Razor means that the case with the fewest (novel) components is the one that is easiest to demonstrate. So when we ask why it rains, we could say "Because God wills it so." But we are then responsible for demonstrating the truth of the proposition, "God's will," which also makes us responsible for demonstrating the truth of the proposition "God."
The physicalist explanation for rain involves dozens or hundreds of aspects, depending on the desired complexity of modelling "why it is raining," but each individual one of them relies on few or no unproven or unprovable propositions. Thus we find the physicalist explanation the most parsimonious (another name for Occam's Razor is 'lex parsimoniae') in terms of new propositions to be examined -- and thus the most likely to be demonstrably true.
So next time someone cites Occam's Razor as favorable towards some ridiculous but easily-summarized hogwash, elucidate them! Together we can eradicate this misconception entirely.
I'm not arguing God had anything to do with anything. I'm an atheist, after all.
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/this, except for me, it was the only game anyone had that I'm interested in.|
Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I'm not refusing to buy any of their other games out of anger, but rather out of disinterest. CoH was the only game they had that I'm interested in.
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Honestly, if NCsoft made another game that I liked, I'd probably play it even with them killing CoH. Refusing to play a game that I enjoy just to punish NCSoft would probably hurt me more than it them.
But CoH is the only MMO I ever liked. So when it's gone, that's probably it for me.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Okay guys.
You're peeved at NCSoft. And on many levels, this feeling is fully justified. But, can we PLEASE keep the angry "not buying XYZ" and "Don't buy ABC" and "I can't believe they replaced CoH with *FNORD!* man!" rhetoric down? Right now there are really REALLY delicate negotiations going on over the future of CoH. And a bunch of angry "I'm gonna sabotage you!" talk is NOT going to help these people. Please guys. This has been mostly civil for the past couple weeks now. Please don't let every little dribble of NCSoft news that isn't "CoH is saved" become a call to jihad here. Is this me telling anyone to sit down and shut up? No. This is me asking, if needs be, begging for you to remember that people are right now working VERY hard to try and save this game. And a lot of angry rhetoric is simply a disincentive for NCSoft to be cooperative and amiable about the whole thing. This is me asking you to keep a lid on your tempers so that these people's job is made as easy as possible. So that we have the absolute BEST chance of rescuing the game and community from oblivion. If, on December 1st, the game is gone forever, and you still feel the need to go up in a ball of nuclear fire BE MY GUEST! Until then, please remain civil! |
Sorry can't imagine anything that would change my opinion about NCsoft except maybe purging the board of directors and all the upper echelons of their executive staff.
This isn't the first game that has been torpedoed out from under me but by god it has been the worst handled.
I dont. as various news as come out I've become convinced that there were people high up in the nc korea structure who did not like City at all. when the 2nd quarter numbers came in they were able to use that as leverage to execute their nemisis plot to remove the game from the portf0lio.
At one point, I thought of boycoting them. Then I realised it was pointless because I have 0 interest in fantasy MMO. Why threaten a boycott of a product I have no interest in? no Paragon, no reason to give them my money. End of story.