*CENSORED* NCSOFT! KILL! MAIM! WHARGARBL! (Or not...please!)
By
Atlantea,
Posted on: 2012-09-13 17:01 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
They mentioned B&S coming to NA and EU in their investors reports for at least a year now, it's not a surprise it was a given.
I think a better guess would be which current MMO in their stable isn't popular in their primary markets and is not a sword/sorcery fantasy MMO? I can also believe NCSoft placing their moneys on Carbine/WildStar as a game that'll appeal to western and eastern markets than low revenue generating superhero game that appeals only in NA.
And they only lost $6 million US, 6 billion KrW, but the key issue was it was the companies first negative quarter ever.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
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Tempus unum hominem manet
With respect to Hyperstrike--I agree that civility is not only polite, but in our best interests during the negotiations you linked about--but all it takes is one poster to effectively say "No." (Not naming names but he's ALL OVER UR THREAD.) And your plea for a well-meaning thread is on its ear, for days and days and days, accomplishing much the opposite of what you sought. And you better believe that we have more than enough disenfranchised posters to fulfill that scenario.
What's more is, I'm not even sure if that's a bad thing. And this is coming from a guy who really feels best when he's got his Optimism hat on. Excuse my language, but NCSoft has royally pissed this community off. They ought to know about it. And just when they think they understand how pissed we are, maybe we ought to take that opportunity to let them know that we are, in fact, even more pissed than they ever imagined. (I'm aware these first two paragraphs seem to present a conflict, but in the end, ya'know, NCSoft should expect to see a variety of reactions--we're probably doing well by showing how passionate we are, in any case.)
However, while all of this anger might be somehow productive for building momentum, it's not going to sustain it. Different people deal with anger in different ways, which is what makes it unreliable. Past a certain point, most people will get sick and tired, and they'll want to feel good again.
Purpose makes people feel good, and it sustains momentum. You'd have been better off taking a different tact; perhaps finding a bit of good news to post, in order to lift morale around here. Again, I'll cite that great bit of news from Brian Clayton you linked to. You mentioned it as if it was some kind of footnote, dude. What the heck? I've got news for you. It's the best thing to happen in this thread so far.
My three years here are a drop in the bucket, but, long enough to know this community doesn't take well to having a finger wagged in its face--not even for a great reason. Take this advice with a grain of salt, of course. I'm just another poster with an opinion. Maybe I'm wrong.
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Well, they're about to have another, because I doubt that they're going to get the droves that they're expecting for GW2 and B&S (neither look like anything like a WoW-killer), especially after alienating CoH's playerbase.
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
They mentioned B&S coming to NA and EU in their investors reports for at least a year now, it's not a surprise it was a given.
I think a better guess would be which current MMO in their stable isn't popular in their primary markets and is not a sword/sorcery fantasy MMO? I can also believe NCSoft placing their moneys on Carbine/WildStar as a game that'll appeal to western and eastern markets than low revenue generating superhero game that appeals only in NA. And they only lost $6 million US, 6 billion KrW, but the key issue was it was the companies first negative quarter ever. |
gw2 hit 2 million sold, as per kotaku. its doing alright. nothing is a "wow-killer" but I dont think even educationally qualified duck enthusiasts can claim its not attracting droves.
We'll just see how those numbers keep going after the CoH fallout settles.
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To be brutally honest, we don't. I suspect and speculate that it's true because of the continued radio silence, but the simple truth is that we don't know.|
Originally Posted by shadow35
And for another, how do you even know "delicate negotiations" or any negotiations whatsoever are still underway?
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But consider this. If we assume that they are, keep a civil tone, and it turns out they're not, no harm done and we move on to our next plan. On the other hand, if we assume that they're not, go all nuclear, and it turns out that they were, we've blown a chance at keeping our game and an incredible team of people together that, for the sake of the gaming industry, really needs to stay together.
So please don't go all nuclear yet. I know it's frustrating not getting any answers or gratification, but I knew that this wasn't going to happen in a few days. Keep playing, keep your spirits up, we'll help as much as we can with events like the upcoming Positron's Ally event next week, and we will get through this.
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
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No, it's not. You're mistaking the announcement of Blade & Soul as the beginning of a process. It's the opposite. NC West has been working on bringing Blade & Soul to the West for years at this point. They are finally ready to announce it.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
Let me put this slowly.
1. NCSoft abruptly axes CoH and Paragon Studios 2. Explains decision as "realignment" of "publishing support." 3. Two weeks later, B&S announcement. So let's see, we passed the appearance, the swimming, and the quacking. It's official, this duck is a duck. |
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I don't think any studio actually believes they can develop a "WoW-killer" anymore. WoW was the exception, not the rule. The industry has tried known IPs like Star Wars, Star Trek, Matrix, Lord of the Rings, Dungeons and Dragons, Conan, Pirates of the Caribbean, DC Comics and none of them came anywhere close to WoWs success.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
Well, they're about to have another, because I doubt that they're going to get the droves that they're expecting for GW2 and B&S (neither look like anything like a WoW-killer), especially after alienating CoH's playerbase.
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And since GW2 isn't subscription based but box set sales plus item store based it will never come close to WoW's revenue numbers. As for Blade and Soul, if I was NCSoft I would worry that game may take away players from Aion so they may not end up with similar bump in revenues that Aion had when it first came out. In 2009 they were telling investors that 2012 would be a 1 trillion KrW year but it would be lucky IMO to have 650 billion in gross revenues this year even with 2 million GW2 sales in Q3 and whatever revenue B&S generates worldwide.
What hurt NCSoft last quarter was the combination of lower income, 22.7 million KrW less when compared with Q2 2011 and 40.8 million KrW higher operating costs, mostly due to the digestion of Ntreev who they bought during Q1 2012 (only 2.8 million KrW was due to marketing).
I know people want someone or something to point a finger at and shout "The one in the braces, he done it!". So far we've had ArenaNet/Guild Wars 2, Cryptic/Perfect Entertainment, Nexon and now Blade & Soul. How about worldwide economic downturn and/or diluted MMO player numbers due to the glut of MMOs on the market. Even the great and powerful WoW is down nearly 25% since it's peak. However that might go up again soon since I just starting to see their Kung-Fu panda expansion advertised on TV, which they can do since they are still collecting over $100 million a month in subscriptions Vs $10 million a year with us.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
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Or, in other words, stop brandishing knives around and put them away for now. Sure, you can still carry you knives around and keep them ready, but stop threatening people with em. There's plenty of time for knife work later if things do go badly. For now it just doesn't look good.|
Originally Posted by TonyV
So please don't go all nuclear yet. I know it's frustrating not getting any answers or gratification, but I knew that this wasn't going to happen in a few days. Keep playing, keep your spirits up, we'll help as much as we can with events like the upcoming Positron's Ally event next week, and we will get through this.
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Unless you're beating up villains with them, in which case go nuts. Red cap knives look pretty nice anyway.
Culex's resistance guide
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The Crusaders made me do it.|
Originally Posted by cursedsorcerer
And no firebombing NCSoft HQ. Not sure how much that will help our cause.
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-pockets leftover temp power charges-
That said... whether I ever support NCsoft again, or whether I will share my opinions about their practices to anyone who will listens depends entirely on whether the CoH situation is resolved to my satisfaction. It's a feeble threat, I know, but I suspect it's echoed by others as well.
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It's transparently obvious what NCsoft have in mind here.|
Originally Posted by Lady_Sadako
No, it's not. You're mistaking the announcement of Blade & Soul as the beginning of a process. It's the opposite. NC West has been working on bringing Blade & Soul to the West for years at this point. They are finally ready to announce it.
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1. They want to put their BS (their term not mine) out to the western market.
2. They want to be able to finance the roll out and budget for it accordingly, which makes sense.
3. They would like to have a ready made playerbase that already play other NCsoft games in the west ...... oh, hang on ... they have that already with the 100k - 150k CoH playerbase.
4. Axe CoH. Call it realignment.
5. Introduce BS to the western market.
6. Every single ex CoH player will subscribe to BS, because - hey it's an NCsoft game, and they make great games like CoH was ...right?
Right?
That was still civil, wasn't it?
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
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Do you seriously think NCsoft were planning in advance to cancel CoH and close down Paragon when localisation work began on Blade and Soul more than a year and a half ago?
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Originally Posted by Cobra_Man
It's transparently obvious what NCsoft have in mind here.
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Do you seriously believe that a company of the magnitude of Ncsoft will not plan well ahead and make decisions that will impact well into the future?|
Originally Posted by Lady_Sadako
Do you seriously think NCsoft were planning in advance to cancel CoH and close down Paragon when localisation work began on Blade and Soul more than a year and a half ago?
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In answer to your question.....
Yes I do.
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
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Of course I do. Such advance planning is entirely at odds with the suddenness of the closure of Paragon and the cancellation of CoH. That's why it's ridiculous to think that it was somehow planned to coincide with Blade & Soul's Western launch. Obviously I don't like the decision to cancel CoH any more than anyone else and I'll protest it every step of the way, but claiming it's down to Blade and Soul is just wrong.|
Originally Posted by Cobra_Man
Do you seriously believe that a company of the magnitude of Ncsoft will not plan well ahead and make decisions that will impact well into the future?
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A question for you: do you fully understand the distinction between NCsoft and NCsoft West?
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NCsoft West is the western arm of NCsoft, based in ...Seattle?|
Originally Posted by Lady_Sadako
Of course I do. Such advance planning is entirely at odds with the suddenness of the closure of Paragon and the cancellation of CoH. That's why it's ridiculous to think that it was somehow planned to coincide with Blade & Soul's Western launch. Obviously I don't like the decision to cancel CoH any more than anyone else and I'll protest it every step of the way, but claiming it's down to Blade and Soul is just wrong.
A question for you: do you fully understand the distinction between NCsoft and NCsoft West? |
Essentially they market NCsoft products in the west.
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
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This never happened. As has been pointed out, it's a false correlation. B&S has been coming to the states for a while.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
Eh, I think people are slightly justifiably edgy after it was revealed that the reason CoH got the ax was because of Blade & Soul coming States-side.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
Really? What does "realign focus and publishing support" mean in Santa Elf-ese, then? Seriously, the correlation of the B&S announcement following the axing of CoH with their "realign" language is obvious.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
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Originally Posted by Scythus
Let me put this slowly.
1. NCSoft abruptly axes CoH and Paragon Studios 2. Explains decision as "realignment" of "publishing support." 3. Two weeks later, B&S announcement. So let's see, we passed the appearance, the swimming, and the quacking. It's official, this duck is a duck. |
There are myriad reasons CoH was given the "Old Yeller". Ascribing it to any singular cause (as you are doing) is simply scapegoating.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
You're ascribing too much competency to these people, which is your problem. This is a company that managed to lose $6B because of overspending on the two Korean grinders we're speaking of.
This is not only a duck, but it's a mentally deficient duck. |
It isn't that simple. And the people at NCSoft aren't stupid.
And please get your numbers right. NCSoft lost six MILLION, not six BILLION. In a volatile market like theirs, with numerous obvious and non-obvious triggers for spending (as well as various mergers and acquisitions happening), this can happen to even the smartest businessmen.
One quarter is a painful smack in the face for them. But watch what happens over the next couple quarters before you declare their business strategy "dumb" or "deficient".
Thank you for your concern. I won't be responding to this thread in the future.
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The people at NCsoft aren't stupid.
That's what I'm saying .......
It's also the reason that they are highly unlikely to let go of the CoH ip.
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
Hyperstrike's words make sense, and I was just about to post an FU message out of frustration and anger. If NCSOFT had announced that the game was ending AND everyone would be a VIP until the end, I think that they would have gotten, at least in my case, a WHOLE lot more respect.
I'm PO'd that they didn't take my last payment in August that was due on the 26th, *5* days before the announcement was made. This left me as a premium player with limited access to the game and the forums, I can't even say goodbye to the game like I would want to.
How would it have hurt them to let everyone be VIP for the last few months? They're not taking payments anyway, they're not losing money in any case. I would have gladly paid my subscription up until the day the servers went dark, but I'm not even given that opportunity.
In the end I feel disrespected. Bottom line is that I feel like NCSOFT doesn't give an F about me, after 7 years, 2 months of taking my money gladly.
But I'll hold my tongue. We'll see what happens.
With a new game out that pretty much kills any chance left...jobs are lost and ncsoft has moved on. Really guys.ts great to be optmistic and all...but im realistic. In my eyes i see this as over.
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In order to know what sort of state their finances would be in in Autumn 2012 when they began localisation work (in Seattle) on Blade and Soul in early 2011, they'd have to be psychic, not just 'not stupid'.|
Originally Posted by Cobra_Man
The people at NCsoft aren't stupid.
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If you look over the earnings statements of that time, they were still expecting Guild Wars 2 to launch by the end of 2011.
Once again: blaming Blade and Soul's launch for the closure of City of Heroes is just plain wrong.
Sure, I won't be yelling "boycott NCsoft." Can I still express my completely unrelated apathy towards any of their other titles? Because I wouldn't buy Blade and Soul regardless of who published it. I hate the art style and the combat has done nothing to endear itself to me, plus I'm not sure if it even has a story. Tera was the first Korean MMO I'm aware of that at least attempted to have a progressing story.
And frankly, shutting down the one game of theirs that I wanted and then sending me an e-mail advertising another game they're bringing over does not endear me to being civil. It simply makes me that much more cynical.
Sure, I'll move on from City of Heroes when the time comes, but I will NOT move to Blade and Soul or Aion or even Guild Wars 2. That's not what I stuck with NCsoft for. Those aren't the games I wanted to buy or the settings and stories I wanted to experience.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Personally, I don't particularly blame any one game, but NCSoft has burned too many MMO bridges for me to ever invest money in them again.|
Originally Posted by Lady_Sadako
In order to know what sort of state their finances would be in in Autumn 2012 when they began localisation work (in Seattle) on Blade and Soul in early 2011, they'd have to be psychic, not just 'not stupid'.
If you look over the earnings statements of that time, they were still expecting Guild Wars 2 to launch by the end of 2011. Once again: blaming Blade and Soul's launch for the closure of City of Heroes is just plain wrong. |
If there's anything timing-wise that I think was particularly sleazy of them, though, it's that they waited until the week after GW2's early start (the first launch wave) and then several days after the official launch to drop the bomb about CoH.
Now THAT was manipulative, and was aimed at one thing: wringing as much money as they could off unsuspecting gamers who might otherwise have boycotted had they known about CoH sooner.
I for one would not have bought GW2 had I known they were going to shutter CoH. Not to mention that they were the rudest of brutes about it in the way they blindsided Paragon Studios in the middle of an expansion and new power set/etc. on test, and pink-slipped them all out of nowhere besides.
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Ok, first off in early 2011 the planet was in the grip of a recession. Economic forecasts were pretty much all of the theme of 'it isn't going to get any better soon'.|
Originally Posted by Lady_Sadako
In order to know what sort of state their finances would be in in Autumn 2012 when they began localisation work (in Seattle) on Blade and Soul in early 2011, they'd have to be psychic, not just 'not stupid'.
If you look over the earnings statements of that time, they were still expecting Guild Wars 2 to launch by the end of 2011. Once again: blaming Blade and Soul's launch for the closure of City of Heroes is just plain wrong. |
Like every other company (never mind gaming company) they would expect to have less income due to people either unsubscribing or simply not buying their product - due to said recession.
NCsoft will have seen this coming, so they wouldn't have to be psychic - as you put it - just professional.
So .. here we are - still in a recession.
You believe what you want to.
I'll go with the duck theory.
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
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This is getting surreal. At what point in the development process of Blade and Soul do you imagine NCsoft took the decision to cancel CoH and close Paragon? And do you imagine the decision came from NCsoft West, or from NCsoft in Korea?|
Originally Posted by Cobra_Man
Like every other company (never mind gaming company) they would expect to have less income due to people either unsubscribing or simply not buying their product - due to said recession.
NCsoft will have seen this coming, so they wouldn't have to be psychic - as you put it - just professional. |
Bear in mind here that the Western launch date for Blade and Soul has not even been announced yet. You're asking people to believe that the mere announcement of concrete plans to bring Blade and Soul to the West is somehow tied in with the closure of CoH.
This is not only a duck, but it's a mentally deficient duck.