Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2012-08-31 17:09 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Tony,
My GF and I as well as 2 friends, are willing to help with time and financial support. While I know its not a lot we can afford upwards of $150 a month towards a realistic project. We have also discussed that if NCSoft is actually willing to sell PS to the community and the community has a viable plan, then we our willing to invest between $5K and $20K in a community/PS venture.
We our willing to do this because we feel that The Game, The Devs, and the Community have all been fantastic and we have many fond memories. Last nights gathering with Arbiter Hawk at the Paragon Dance Party, just reaffirms that belief. Its just icing on this cake that I seem to remember that when PDP was released, it was stated that one of the Devs had made it during their lunch breaks.
They will NOT be selling to the community.
Fight The Power
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Cash cures all ills.
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Originally Posted by Next_Spirit
They will NOT be selling to the community.
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Hew in drag baby
It's not open source.
Fight The Power
What does open source have to do with purchasing an IP franchise? Last I checked, absolutely nothing.
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Hew in drag baby
Yeah, he said they won't just up and release it.
Well, duh. I don't think anyone seriously expected them to.
He didn't say anything about the possibility of someone buying it other than "anything is possible". Which means he doesn't know. It's up to someone higher up the chain of command.
That said, it's quite likely that anyone who bought the IP and the code wouldn't be able to open source it due to contractual obligations with Cryptic and other third parties.
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IP is one thing.. Game is another|
Originally Posted by OneFrigidWitch
What does open source have to do with purchasing an IP franchise? Last I checked, absolutely nothing.
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"Game/Engine will Never be released to public (presumable because it's not Open Source and the engine isn't legally theirs, it's Cryptic's)"
- Zwill (Not direct quote but taken from stream"
Fight The Power
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Did you play Warhammer Online?
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Originally Posted by ElizabethSpectre
But that 'very old engine' is still about the best engine out there. I've yet to play an MMO with a fully 3D engine, with collision detection, that is as clean as CoH's. Every other MMO's engine I've played just doesn't have the same smoothness -- I'm not talking frames per second, I'm talking about way the character moves through the environment, collides with the environment, etc.
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i still think its a little too early to discount the possibility of ncsoft selling the rights off
i do agree though that the IP and engine are 2 different things here
the IP would include all lore, characters, symbols, ect associated with the game
the engine is technically cryptics, just on an indefinite license to ncsoft (which could be possible to change hands but less likely than just releasing the IP)
im still not discounting anything yet, our movement is still gathering momentum, as of now we have at least 7 articles which are spreading the news we will not give up without a fight
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It's probably even more complicated then that, since the Paragon crew has made extensive changes and upgrades to the engine since it was licensed. Those changes fall under NCSoft's copyright, and unless they signed an exceedingly stupid contract, Cryptic can't use them, or even see what they are.|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
the engine is technically cryptics, just on an indefinite license to ncsoft (which could be possible to change hands but less likely than just releasing the IP)
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So really, the engine partially belongs to multiple parties at once.
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I considered this when I first got the news, but last I knew Richard is looking for the Next New Thing, more towards tablet games, and pulling away from MMOs.|
Originally Posted by Combat
Someone should contact Richard Garriott (creator of Ultima). He has an "interesting" relationship with NCSoft, and is a game designer. More specifically, he sued NCSoft after they terminated him (claiming he left voluntarily), which caused his stocks to expire, costing him millions. He won the lawsuit, worth about $32 million.
Garriott is probably more known by his altar egos, Lord British in Ultima and General British in Tabula Rasa. He founded the game design company Portalarium, and is currently working on the spiritual successor to Ultima (perhaps even Ultima 2 if he gets the IP). Getting him to help would be a long shot, but all we have is long shots. Given his past history with NCSoft, he may have some sympathy for us, even if we don't get taken under the wings of his game company. |
Knowing his history with NCSoft, though he would be sympathetic to our cause, he will not want to deal with them again.
"If I fail, they write me off as another statistic. If I succeed, they pay me a million bucks to fly out to Hollywood and fart." --- George A. Romero
"If I had any dignity, that would have been humiliating" --- Adam Savage
Virtue Server: Kheprera, Malefic Elf, Lady Omen, Night Rune, La Muerte Roja, Scarab Lafayette, Serena Ravensong, Kyrse, and Arachnavoodoo among others.
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I know this is coming in a couple of days after the fact, sorry. I'm just now trying to get caught up on this thread, but I just HAD to say... |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
'Scumbags'? Oh, you mean the Union channel that you've been trolling ever since you joined it?
I'm amazed anyone every unblocked you after the first time. You slimy, self obsessed, self righteous, arrogant, boorish, pig-headed, rude, vulgar, uncouth, loud mouthed, back-stabbing, scum sucking, putrid and bileous little streak of vile and corrosive gobshite. I've been waiting to say something like that. Because bloody hells do you deserve it. If I were there in person, I'd clout you around the face with my gods damned keyboard! Get. The Hell. Out. |
DAMN SON!
*SLOW CLAP*
As take-downs go, that was a thing of most awesome and sublime beauty, and not a curse word to be found in it!
Well played, sirrah! Well played and a graceful follow-through!
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A perfect example of what I'm talking about. As much as I loved Warhammer Online for its RvR, style, and scenery, the game engine was awful.|
Originally Posted by Feycat
Did you play Warhammer Online?
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Collision detection in PvP/RvR/WvW is critical, IMO, and Warhammer Online offered that, which was awesome, but when running around the environment it was way, way, waaay too easy to get stuck on a random piece of terrain/building/etc. Jumping over objects was always hit or miss because the engine wasn't clean when it came to the borders of objects and how that was represented on the screen.
I loved Warhammer Online. Yet, it's a perfect example of a graphics engine that I would absolutely not want to use.
Co-Founder of W.I.C.K.E.D., a top 5 VG on Justice (inactive)
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- John Donne
I'm not sure if any of you guys remember me but I was the black guy in the black gothic lolita dress at PAX Prime 2011. Yeah, the one that pronounced Khledians wrong...
I hved moved on to Guild Wars 2 recently but City of Heroes has always been the game I've gone back to. Even with my time spent in traversing all the new and exciting things in Tyria, Paragon will always be my home.
In my opinion, I say go for the IP and screw the engine. Yes it will take years to start over from scratch but the game was showing its age long ago. It can be rebuilt faster, stronger and better than before. I would love to see it where costume pieces can have three color choices, heroes can swing from building to building, villain players can dynamically choose which evil deed to partake in and hero players and then given missions to stop them.
But no matter which way you decide to go, you have my support. I'll be watching for a kickstarter because I too want to know what the hell the Omega slot is!
I an effort to get more people aware and involved in this situation, I have sent a message to Dodger from the Youtube channel, PressHeartToContinue, and DexterityBonus. I am doing so in hopes that she will see our plight and reach out to her subscriber-base in an effort to bring awareness and possibly rally more gamers to our cause.
The letter was written as follows:
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I just pray that this will be enough.
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Hello Dodger. I know that you do not know me, and I completely understand that. I also understand if you are willing to simply toss this private message out the window before you even look at it. However, if you have opened it, please hear me out. I am a player from the Super-Hero MMORPG City of Heroes. While I cannot determine whether you have heard of it or not, I am here to ask for your help. On August 31, NCSoft abruptly announced that it would be shutting down Paragon Studios and, with Paragon Studios closed, City of Heroes would be shut down as well. A tentative date for the "sunset" of the game has been set for November 30, 2012. As you might imagine, this came as a complete shock to the CoH community, as well as the development team for the game, as they expected to come into work on August 31 and continue their passion. Instead, more than 80 developers were handed pink slips and laid-off. While a lot of speculation has been going around about why NCSoft decided to shutdown Paragon Studios, one thing is perfectly clear: the CoH community is not ready to let this game die just yet. In just a week, an online petition to NCSoft has been created and collected more than 15,000 signatures. Multiple online gamer-news related sites have reported and continue to monitor the ongoing fight to save the game. Coordination efforts on both the Titan Network and the City of Heroes forums have been underway. We are heroes. Saving what we love is what we do. We are villains. What is ours, is ours, and none shall take it. We do not ask an entire video be devoted to our fight (if you feel for our plight). All we ask is that awareness for our fight be made. Anything that you can do to help a close-knit community of gamers keep what they love would be greatly appreciated. I have included a few helpful links, should you decide that you would be willing to help us in our fight against an unjust shutdown. Petition: https://www.change.org/petitions/ncs...city-of-heroes Coordination Efforts (via the Titan Network): http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php?board=134.0 http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=295867 All we ask is that you, at the very least, consider reaching out to your subscriber-base and simply spreading awareness. Should you choose to decline, we also completely understand this, as well. With much appreciation, Genesis Soldier of the Freedom Server. |
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I exist to serve.|
Originally Posted by Atlantea
Well played, sirrah! Well played and a graceful follow-through! |
-when it suits me, my current mood and my own diabolical ends, actual servitude not included, any queries may be forwarded to eatlasermeatbag@hotmail.co.uk, time limited offer.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I'll have you know I have very few adversaries in the community. |
Originally Posted by Alexis_NA
Profit and community are adversarial.
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No. It was not. It was rude, antagonistic, the worst personal attack I'd seen between either of those two and, most of all, completely unnecessary.|
Originally Posted by Atlantea
As take-downs go, that was a thing of most awesome and sublime beauty, and not a curse word to be found in it!
Well played, sirrah! Well played and a graceful follow-through! |
That kind of attitude is only harmful right now. TonyV handled the conversation perfectly well, there was no need for anyone else to jump on the dogpile. The person in question may have been persistent in manner and a little too eager to present unfounded opinion as fact, but at all points I saw, that person was civil. Unlike those who attacked him/her.
And I completely and fully agree with this person's question: "How can anyone think attacking someone on a public channel then silencing whem when they fight back is ok?" The answer to this question is "It isn't. Ever."
Because I don't think it was read as fully as it should have been,
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Originally Posted by CuppaManga
Also to everyone in this thread: I'd like to remind you that educating someone has a much higher value than pushing them away, especially right now. We have one common enemy; stay together and stay focused.
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TonyV and Titan: I'm skeptical of the efforts Titan is putting together, but I'm also hopeful. I've been following this thread from the day it was linked to me and finally dug up my password after almost two years of inactivity to log in and offer my support (the amount and manner of which will depend on the direction taken by Titan).
I put a lot of years into this game before I just lost interest in the gameplay mechanics and the power creep, and have a LOT of fond and happy memories that were formed in this game. My personal preference is a revamp, but only because I'd want new combat mechanics, and I understand that's not popular. Failing that, my biggest request to you and everyone involved is the same as KillerKitty's: Please, please do everything in your power to prevent cliques and elite groups. I experienced them myself while I was playing the game and even saw them forming in the guild I was running (and squashed them, with varied methods and results, whenever they were pointed out to me).
Nostalgia and hope are worth a lot to me.
All that said, I'll keep on watching this thread for new developments. If nothing else, I'm learning things about law and business that I'll never use.
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What this thread and those comments fail to take into account is the sheer length of in-game time that people tried to be civil, tried to be polite and patient, and were basically told they were wrong, their opinion was wrong and they should feel horrible for daring to disagree with a certain person.|
Originally Posted by Laughing_Wolf
No. It was not. It was rude, antagonistic, the worst personal attack I'd seen between either of those two and, most of all, completely unnecessary.
That kind of attitude is only harmful right now. TonyV handled the conversation perfectly well, there was no need for anyone else to jump on the dogpile. The person in question may have been persistent in manner and a little too eager to present unfounded opinion as fact, but at all points I saw, that person was civil. Unlike those who attacked him/her. And I completely and fully agree with this person's question: "How can anyone think attacking someone on a public channel then silencing whem when they fight back is ok?" The answer to this question is "It isn't. Ever." Because I don't think it was read as fully as it should have been, |
Once you've been through that farce more than once, tolerance levels can and will find all new low levels to reach, even if they have to burrow through bedrock to do it. When you, your friends and the community you have built over years has been point blank insulted one time too many, by a complete and utter strange who has NO other purpose there other to spread their own self-righteous agenda, THEN get back to me and we can discuss this on equal terms.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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You assume I haven't. There's no reason to "get back to" you, as there's nothing to discuss. You've just tried to assert that lowering yourself to petty insults is justified by history with this individual. It isn't. The personal attack was unnecessary. Full stop.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
What this thread and those comments fail to take into account is the sheer length of in-game time that people tried to be civil, tried to be polite and patient, and were basically told they were wrong, their opinion was wrong and they should feel horrible for daring to disagree with a certain person.
Once you've been through that farce more than once, tolerance levels can and will find all new low levels to reach, even if they have to burrow through bedrock to do it. When you, your friends and the community you have built over years has been point blank insulted one time too many, by a complete and utter strange who has NO other purpose there other to spread their own self-righteous agenda, THEN get back to me and we can discuss this on equal terms. |
As I said, I support Titan's efforts. If I see people being excluded just because you all have a history with them, despite their posts being worded with reasonable civility, that support withdraws very quickly. I've been on the outside of cliques, looking in, and I've seen other people stand outside of them. It's not fun.
I just read through recent comments she made to see if there was something I missed and the closest I can find to an unprovoked attack is where she said "lying scumbags" -- and that, I had interpreted as being directed toward NCSoft. Even if you interpret it differently, that's just your assumption. It isn't specified.
Drop the executioner's axe and keep the thread positive and informative.
Laughing Wolf - have you ever heard of the Unholy Triangle? It's a situation where two people are having an argument and a third person intervenes. They feel they are doing the right thing but in reality they are creating a dangerous relationship where at any given moment they will be either a) the saviour, b) the victim, or c) the aggressor.
Also, you're totally wrong about the little troll, Kitty. He/She/It is a troll, fair and simple. They deserve nothing but contempt because they are one of life's leeches - devoid of their own ideas and personality and existing only in direct opposition to others. That made me feel good too.
My first encounter with the troll was receiving PMs that Wormtongue would have been proud of. Unfortunately for the troll I am a developed, emotionally-secure person who told them, in a nice way, to pee off then promptly ignored them. Said person should be ignored. They serve no other purpose but to absorb much-needed oxygen.
Go Techbot.
Just making counts here.
There are people that work toward saving City of heroes from closing.
There are people that work toward making something that'll accomodate the players after City closes.
And then there are people that are on the forum, barking their opinions sitting on their backside.
I'm from the first two populations here, I have proof for these. One of them is my signature. The second is on a private part of another forum. But first I was from the third too. But that lasted a day or two. Now can everybody look deep inside himself or herself and prove otherwise and stop being of the third population ? Because THAT is a waste of oxygen.
Of all the epochs and throughout all the time, it wasn't policitians or their decision that made things go. It was Action.
Do, don't say, be productive. We can do it. Whatever it is. Believe, or let everything go.
WE ARE HEROES. THIS IS WHAT WE DO.
City et moi, �a colle !
I originally started writing this in a PM, as it's become rather irrelevant to this discussion thread. I considered the risk of that being taken as harassment by PM one that I didn't want to take.
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There was no argument. There was discussion -- she worried about cliques, asserted that NCSoft would never sell and that the "[NCSoft] Scumbags would sooner see the game die than admit they are wrong" and later linked an article supporting her opinion -- and then there was anger and insults. I reacted to the anger and insults because it was harshing my feel for this thread.|
Originally Posted by Arctic_Princess
Laughing Wolf - have you ever heard of the Unholy Triangle? It's a situation where two people are having an argument and a third person intervenes...
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The attack also proves nothing and does nothing to help the situation. It only escalates from civil discussion (even if biased to disagree with most of the people in this thread) to reciprocated toxicity.
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Originally Posted by Arctic_Princess
Also, you're totally wrong about the little troll, Kitty. He/She/It is a troll, fair and simple.
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What I have said is that her posts in this thread have been civil. Those are the only posts of hers I've read and this is the only thread in which I've been able to form an impression of the involved parties.
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Originally Posted by Arctic_Princess
They deserve nothing but contempt because they are one of life's leeches - devoid of their own ideas and personality and existing only in direct opposition to others.
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Originally Posted by Arctic_Princess
<snip>
Said person should be ignored. <snip> |
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Originally Posted by Arctic_Princess
Go Techbot.
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It will matter little, but I'm disappointed. It's even more disappointing that not a single response to me has actually discussed the message (keep things civil and positive; don't let cliques form) and have only focused on defaming KillerKitty and/or blindly grandstanding about how much experience one has had with trolls, with some rather uninformed assumptions that I could never have faced the same issues.
Mister_Bison is right, except he missed one group of people: those that are not doing anything at all, forum or otherwise. I was in the third group he described. I'm now in the fourth.
I wish this project well for my friends who want it to succeed.
Does anyone have any "new news" about offers to buy or license the COH IP, or otherwise keep the game alive in some form?
I was hoping there would be more feedback from offers (such as Titan Network) and insights into what NCSoft is attempting to achieve.
I'd kick in something. It's a worthy cause for a game which has been good to me.
Too many alts to list.