Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...


Ad Astra

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightslinger View Post
Whereas I saw it as a sign of new life for the game, a new era full of great new possibilities for CoH that elevated the player to the level of the real heroes.
Granted, yes, it did open a new door for opportunity within Paragon City, that I was all for. But I would have suggested putting him in a back seat, just a background figure that echoed his legacy, as opposed to removing him all together. He was the poster child of CoH. The original trailer, login screen, box art, etc. It was like taking Mario entirely out of Super Mario Bros. City of Heroes lost it's icon.

But this is best for another thread I assume. What is done, is done. Not only is Statesman now gone, but Recluse, Scorpion, Liberty, Mako, Mu, Longbow, Minions 1 and 2, the statue of Atlas, the crazy drivers on the roads of Paragon, the roads of Paragon themselves,.....etc. etc.

Damn it! Now I am angry again!


You can reach me at: PrinceRecluse@gmail.com
If you want copies or a link to my Demo Record files, send me an email.
My Global is @Blue Alpha and main server is Freedom.
Keep in touch and God Bless Paragon!

 

Posted

Remember that "Cryptic Studios" icon that used to be everywhere in the game? It was there because some of the characters, including Statesman, were still owned by them. I suppose at some point NCSoft decided they didn't want to pay the license fees anymore, so they had to remove the last of the Cryptic characters from the game.

Which makes the sudden "sunsetting" even more strange, because NC was asking so much work to be put in the game to free it from its licensing agreements and make it independent. They made an effort to spin off Paragon Studios and make it autonomous, and encouraged them to not slow down, but accelerate the issue release schedule. They haven't tried this hard for *any* other game in their stable. And after all that they just cut it off? All I'll say is, I don't understand the logic behind the decision.

Ok, that's not exactly true, the only logic that makes sense is if NCSoft is days, weeks away from closing its doors from lack of finances, and their only choice is to immediately stop anything that costs money - whether its profitable in the long run or not, because there wouldn't be a long run.

Actually I'm counting on that possibility. Because if that's true, it also explains why they haven't sold the game to another company, or even entertained offers before now (they didn't have the time). And it *may* also make them more open to offers, so they get an infusion of cash, and they divest themselves of the expense. Yes, I actually thought this through.

I also thought of the possibility that one offer draws *more*. Because CoH is a profitable game with a somewhat healthy population, if there is one announcement of intent to purchase, there may be more. There are several software companies out there who specialize in revitalizing and/or keeping alive older titles, like Lord of the Rings Online. I know some of you may not like some of them (Perfect World could possibly be a bidder as well, maybe even Blizzard, though they generally prefer in-house titles) but at this point? Anywhere but here is better.

Of course, as I've said before, this all depends on whether NCSoft wants to let go. It's conceivable that they're killing CoH because they planned to replace it, only they don't have the money now, so they'll sit on the property until they do. We could try to talk them out of that, or into some sort of licensing arrangement, though that's not a certainty either. Until we know for sure, we know nothing but possibilities. But possibility is also what we're hoping for.


Manga @ Triumph
"Meanwhile In The Halls Of Titan"...Titan Network Working To Save City Of Heroes
Save Paragon City! Efforts Coordination

 

Posted

Perfect World owns Champions Online currently and are parents to any licensing rights of Cryptic Studios.

City of Heroes is their direct competition.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl View Post
Perfect World owns Champions Online currently and are parents to any licensing rights of Cryptic Studios.

City of Heroes is their direct competition.
It doesn't prevent them from owning both titles, however. Actually since they bought Champions too, the two would be on even footing within the company.


Manga @ Triumph
"Meanwhile In The Halls Of Titan"...Titan Network Working To Save City Of Heroes
Save Paragon City! Efforts Coordination

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl View Post
Perfect World owns Champions Online currently and are parents to any licensing rights of Cryptic Studios.

City of Heroes is their direct competition.
First of all, you are correct in terms of what you have said.

However, I'd like to point out that several of PWE's games actually compete with one another (for example, Perfect World International and Forsaken World are both VERY similar in terms of their genre and overall mechanics), so it means (at least IMO) that PWE gives no damns in terms of direct competition.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl View Post
Perfect World owns Champions Online currently and are parents to any licensing rights of Cryptic Studios.

City of Heroes is their direct competition.
Perfect World runs CO at a loss. Knowingly so because they want to have a presence in the Western gaming market. Owning both titles could only help them.


Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
Perfect World runs CO at a loss. Knowingly so because they want to have a presence in the Western gaming market. Owning both titles could only help them.
At a loss? Source?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
Perfect World runs CO at a loss. Knowingly so because they want to have a presence in the Western gaming market. Owning both titles could only help them.
That's a pretty big leap. How does owning TWO money-losing superhero games help them?


 

Posted

After more digging discovered that 3DX Ripper is incompatible with City of Heroes, despite many attempts.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by St_Angelius View Post
COH wasn't losing money!
That's pretty hard to establish. Or do you have inside information?

At any rate, I don't think it was making so much money that PWI would quickly recoup what they'd have to pay NCSoft to take it over.

Couple that with the fact that CO stands to get a nice boost from CoH closing, and I still fail to see how buying CoH would make any kind of economic sense for PWI.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
Couple that with the fact that CO stands to get a nice boost from CoH closing, and I still fail to see how buying CoH would make any kind of economic sense for PWI.
Three words: Existing Subscriber Base. Since CoH is a hybrid f2p model, that's a particularly valuable thing.


Manga @ Triumph
"Meanwhile In The Halls Of Titan"...Titan Network Working To Save City Of Heroes
Save Paragon City! Efforts Coordination

 

Posted

I have to admit I have not been playing for a while, but have always held CoH close to my heart, and often find myself returning even if only for a few months at a time. If there is any chance of saving the game I want to do my bit. I'll keep an eye out to chip in once crowdsourcing starts.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
That's a pretty big leap. How does owning TWO money-losing superhero games help them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by St_Angelius View Post
COH wasn't losing money!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
That's pretty hard to establish. Or do you have inside information?
Isn't it equally pretty hard to establish that City of Heroes was costing more to maintain and develop than it was pulling in via revenue? I mean if you're going to dismiss someone taking the opposite claim as you based on those grounds, then it applies to your own claim as well.

We don't know for certain how mucn money City of Heroes was making after expenses, but we do know it was still bringing in several million bucks. Personally I think if, all things being equal, Paragon Studios was an independent studio that published the game on its own they would have stayed afloat based on the revenue numbers alone.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Wrath View Post
At a loss? Source?
At the time Atari sold CO off, they stated that it wasn't profitable (even after they said that the F2P model increased revenue 1,000%!). Besides, everyone knows that Atari bought Cryptic for the rights to Star Trek, which they assumed would be another WOW because a Star Trek IP is a license to print money, right? They couldn't care less about CO.

At the time that PW bought CO, they kept saying it was to establish a presence in the Western gaming market -- they didn't say anything about making money from CO.

Sorry, didn't save the quotes.


Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
That's pretty hard to establish. Or do you have inside information?

At any rate, I don't think it was making so much money that PWI would quickly recoup what they'd have to pay NCSoft to take it over.

Couple that with the fact that CO stands to get a nice boost from CoH closing, and I still fail to see how buying CoH would make any kind of economic sense for PWI.
How about just Positron's statement in his goodbye thread that "Freedom wasn't a failiure" if the aim of Freedom was to increase the profit margin and Freedom wasn't a failiure, than that must mean that CoH wasn't running at a loss.

The fact that the speed of development went up in the last year because they suddenly had the money to do so can only mean that CoH wasn't loosing money.

Simple logic really. But as LittleDavid said, you can't make a claim like you did, that CoH was loosing money with no facts to back it up then demand proof when someone disagrees with you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by St_Angelius View Post
How about just Positron's statement in his goodbye thread that "Freedom wasn't a failiure" if the aim of Freedom was to increase the profit margin and Freedom wasn't a failiure, than that must mean that CoH wasn't running at a loss.

The fact that the speed of development went up in the last year because they suddenly had the money to do so can only mean that CoH wasn't loosing money.

Simple logic really. But as LittleDavid said, you can't make a claim like you did, that CoH was loosing money with no facts to back it up then demand proof when someone disagrees with you.
http://global.ncsoft.com/global/boar...pr&BNo=25&No=0

Page 13... Profits from CoH are up...

Credit for the reporting should go to The Escapist website...


"when i can savagely beat sheep while issuing ultimatums and torturing people, then i may go back into it" -vara nocturne
Not enough Evil...
I take it back NC SOFT is enough evil for anyone...

 

Posted

Haven't been on-line that much these past couple days...briefly caught the announcement before turning in late Friday night. Then have spent the past few hours catching up on many posts/things over quite a few websites.

While driving with my family yesterday(Saturday) I could not help but digest some of my thoughts about the announcement and it struck me that surely if we are such a special/unique/exception to the rule community we will rise to the occasion. That idea alone helped my sadness for the 80 that lost their jobs and the players who are losing their second home/escape/etc as well as my own disappointment for myself change. That one idea of us players rising to the occasion, win or lose, made me smile. It reminded me how no matter what odds we faced in-game together, we'd try stubbornly to get through it, and how supportive we are of one another even in the worst of circumstances. I'm positive while examples here would be nice almost everyone already has a few of their own and relates to this.

So, I jumped on-line a few hours ago hoping to find MY community that cheered me up Saturday. Here are a lot of you in this thread and I'm proud to stand with you all. I don't have tons to offer, but what I can I will. If we have to go down I'm going down swinging!


Liberty!
Black Dawn/Shattered Dawn
Chaos Legion

 

Posted

Someone should contact Richard Garriott (creator of Ultima). He has an "interesting" relationship with NCSoft, and is a game designer. More specifically, he sued NCSoft after they terminated him (claiming he left voluntarily), which caused his stocks to expire, costing him millions. He won the lawsuit, worth about $32 million.

Garriott is probably more known by his altar egos, Lord British in Ultima and General British in Tabula Rasa. He founded the game design company Portalarium, and is currently working on the spiritual successor to Ultima (perhaps even Ultima 2 if he gets the IP).

Getting him to help would be a long shot, but all we have is long shots. Given his past history with NCSoft, he may have some sympathy for us, even if we don't get taken under the wings of his game company.


TW/Elec Optimization

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Combat View Post
Someone should contact Richard Garriott (creator of Ultima). He has an "interesting" relationship with NCSoft, and is a game designer. More specifically, he sued NCSoft after they terminated him (claiming he left voluntarily), which caused his stocks to expire, costing him millions. He won the lawsuit, worth about $32 million.

Garriott is probably more known by his altar egos, Lord British in Ultima and General British in Tabula Rasa. He founded the game design company Portalarium, and is currently working on the spiritual successor to Ultima (perhaps even Ultima 2 if he gets the IP).

Getting him to help would be a long shot, but all we have is long shots. Given his past history with NCSoft, he may have some sympathy for us, even if we don't get taken under the wings of his game company.
He might also count against us in any attempt to talk NCSoft into selling up.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Yeah. Remember, NCSoft owes the guy like $32 million in damages from that lawsuit he won. And given what NCSoft did to make ol' General British sue, I doubt NCSoft would ever want to negotiate the transfer, sale, or licensing of an IP they own to him.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
He might also count against us in any attempt to talk NCSoft into selling up.
True. But his money might talk. And he seems to be in the market for spiritual successors to old MMOs, if we can't get the IP. That was really what I meant. I don't think he'll be much help getting the IP, but he might be our greatest ally otherwise.


TW/Elec Optimization

 

Posted

I'll keep an eye on the Titan forum for news. If it looks like the costs of buying the ip and/or game engine are too high, I say screw it and start a new, crowdfunded game. Titans Online sounds good.