Meanwhile, in the Halls of Titan...
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2012-08-31 17:09 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I like where this is going. A game funded, created, and run by the players! Kind of crazy but isn't that what Community is all about. Also, I keep thinking about mission architect. If we can't get the full game running would there be a away to get the M.A. portion of the game functioning? I could see some interesting possibilities there.
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Originally Posted by TonyV
I've been pondering these possibilities. If there is a dependency on third-party components such as the game engine, there are several possibilities to get around this, such as:
1) We could work to acquire the engine from Cryptic. Probably unlikely, but hey, we can dream big, right? 2) We can work with Cryptic to license the engine just like NCsoft did. 3) We can use crowd funding to hire developers to develop a drop-in replacement for the engine--possibly some of the very same developers who have been working on the game for years already. 4) We can use crowd funding to hire developers to develop a new, better, shinier engine. More expensive and it would totally depend on the amount of crowd funding revenue available, but still a tantalizing possibility. 5) Probably more options I haven't even considered since it's been less than 24 hours since I've been mulling all of this--and a whole lot more--over. My Skype name (tonyv.paragonwiki) and e-mail address (tonyv@cohtitan.com), Facebook page (http://facebook.com/tony.vazquez.3192), and CoH forums (http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php) are all public if you feel I'm leaving out some other brilliant option. And I'm not being facetious when I say that; if we're successful, I want this game to be the Green Bay Packers of the MMORPG genre, community owned and supported so that we would never have to worry about the team being sold, moved, or shuttered again. |
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
Maybe we should get in touch with Dave over at prowrestlingx
He is very nearly ready to release his very own wrestling game that he and his staff have been working on for, 10 years?, now. He could probably offer advice on some things to do and not to do.
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That and we need lists. LOTS OF LISTS! |
Originally Posted by Steelclaw
I will gladly contribute to fund raising when you're ready for that to start.
And, since I am retired and don't have a job to which I need attend, I can also donate my personal time for any little odd jobs that might come up. While I don't have the technical skills displayed by others in this thread, I am excellent at organization (Spreadsheets HOOOOOOO!) and written communication. |
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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True. However, we all already have the client program. I don't know if mission data text is stored client side or server side, but if it is client side, you are not actually copying anything if you reverse engineer the server to talk to the existing clients. Unless there is something copyrightable that we would have to send to the client from the server side, an emulated server wouldn't be violating copyright unless someone got their hands on the original source and included it somehow.
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Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
He's talking about SWG's emulator.
Though technically, yes, copyright infringement DOES exist for CoH's IP (i.e. Paragon, the Rogue Isles, Lord Recluse, Statesman, etc.) So..yeah, still applies. |
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There's a precedent for this in Middle-Earth Play-by-Mail, a turn-based game that began in the days before email. Begun by one company in America and another in the U.K., the game began to flag until it was reborn through purchase by a small group in Wales.|
Originally Posted by RiverOcean
I like where this is going. A game funded, created, and run by the players! Kind of crazy but isn't that what Community is all about. Also, I keep thinking about mission architect. If we can't get the full game running would there be a away to get the M.A. portion of the game functioning? I could see some interesting possibilities there.
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They run it with a lot of heart and have expanded the game, but they have only the rights to administer it, not to alter the game code, so they've proposed a player-purchase of the code rights. Given the limited overlap with LoRO, it may happen. I wonder if that could be so here?
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I was actually thinking more Chicago Blackhawks. Lots of passionate, involved staffers who just want their team to succeed. And an owner who's pinching pennies so hard that if he wasn't smothering, you could hear Abe screaming in mortal agony.|
Originally Posted by TonyV
And I'm not being facetious when I say that; if we're successful, I want this game to be the Green Bay Packers of the MMORPG genre, community owned and supported so that we would never have to worry about the team being sold, moved, or shuttered again.
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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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It's server side.|
Originally Posted by Steel_Golem
True. However, we all already have the client program. I don't know if mission data text is stored client side or server side, but if it is client side, you are not actually copying anything if you reverse engineer the server to talk to the existing clients. Unless there is something copyrightable that we would have to send to the client from the server side, an emulated server wouldn't be violating copyright unless someone got their hands on the original source and included it somehow.
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The contact dialog and NPC chat used to be localized client side, but around the time when the SSAs started coming out, they removed it from the client and it now only exists server side. Probably were worried about the big "WHO WILL DIE?" reveal being spoiled (and then they went and did that themselves...).
With regards to the game being entirely player-owned... I think we should reconsider that.
Not that we shouldn't have a voice and a hand in the rescue/revitalization, but limiting our resources at this stage of the game isn't tactically sound. One thing we need to keep in mind is that this game ALREADY EXISTS and has been proven SUCCESSFUL.
Tony V can walk into a Venture Capitalist's office and present these facts. He doesn't have to pitch an idea to them. "Hey I have this great concept for a superhero game... I'm 73% sure 32% of the gamers out there will love it!" He can simply show them the existing financials... show them the already tried and true development team set up and ready to go... slap the player petitions, testimonials, etc on their desk and say "Show me the money!"
To a Venture Capitalist this is the difference between someone saying "I need money to rebuild the car from the tire rubber to the rabbits foot hanging from the rear view" and "The car is sitting right there... it just needs a new battery..."
My mind wanders so often you've probably seen its picture on milk cartons. - Me... the first person version of the third person Steelclaw
Still here, folks! Blitzwing/CapeMike from Pinnacle...I'll do what I can to rally support among my CoH friends! 
Still trying to find a work around to make 3DX Ripper work. If someone is running on Windows XP or is using DirectX 9 it's a possible they could go through each zone and carefully "rip" the models so they could be recreated in Blender.
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This doesn't need to happen. All the model data is in the PIGGs and the formats are known.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
Still trying to find a work around to make 3DX Ripper work. If someone is running on Windows XP or is using DirectX 9 it's a possible they could go through each zone and carefully "rip" the models so they could be recreated in Blender.
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Why hide them still now, I don't get it?
If these people won't release the info publicly, will anyone?
This stuff should be for everyone, not just one small group... that always turns out bad. :/ (The Stanford Prison Experiment or youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE — "Free flow of information is the only safeguard aganst tyranny [..] Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.")...
The cliques, power structures, smear campaigns, grudgematches, etc like it's some kind of realpolitik were the absolute worst thing about the community at times, but the best was when total strangers would happily work together, let's not have some kind of Committee with close friends running things only or it's bound to go bad :/ I've already heard there have been private, invite-only forums been set up :/
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Because there are still penty of question marks about the future right now.
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Originally Posted by Killerkitty
Why hide them still now, I don't get it?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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There are no cliques.|
Originally Posted by Killerkitty
Why hide them still now, I don't get it?
If these people won't release the info publicly, will anyone? This stuff should be for everyone, not just one small group... that always turns out bad. :/ (The Stanford Prison Experiment or youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE "Free flow of information is the only safeguard aganst tyranny [..] Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.")... The cliques, power structures, smear campaigns, grudgematches, etc like it's some kind of realpolitik were the absolute worst thing about the community at times, but the best was when total strangers would happily work together, let's not have some kind of Committee with close friends running things only or it's bound to go bad :/ I've already heard there have been private, invite-only forums been set up :/ |
RIght now we're at stage one and that's the bomb hitting Paragon Studios.
NCSoft will release a statement about the loss shortly after. A few months down the road we'll learn the truth.
The private forums have always been around. Philotic Knight set one up ages ago and I'm sure the community will gravitate toward others.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
Id be game for donating as well. I can probally get some of my old coh buddies who dont read the forums to look at this and potentially pony up as well.
*readies fire extinguisher*
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Sorry, but I don't see a VC touching this. They're not interested in the slow but steady return, they're looking for the home run.
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Originally Posted by Steelclaw
With regards to the game being entirely player-owned... I think we should reconsider that.
Not that we shouldn't have a voice and a hand in the rescue/revitalization, but limiting our resources at this stage of the game isn't tactically sound. One thing we need to keep in mind is that this game ALREADY EXISTS and has been proven SUCCESSFUL. Tony V can walk into a Venture Capitalist's office and present these facts. He doesn't have to pitch an idea to them. "Hey I have this great concept for a superhero game... I'm 73% sure 32% of the gamers out there will love it!" He can simply show them the existing financials... show them the already tried and true development team set up and ready to go... slap the player petitions, testimonials, etc on their desk and say "Show me the money!" To a Venture Capitalist this is the difference between someone saying "I need money to rebuild the car from the tire rubber to the rabbits foot hanging from the rear view" and "The car is sitting right there... it just needs a new battery..." |
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"We have always been at war with Eastasia"? Come off it. |
Originally Posted by Neuronia
There are no cliques.
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I have friends who are involved in this stuff, I know it's starting to happen and it'd be nice if it could be avoided because I've seen it happen in charities and NGOs before, personal politics and self-aggrandizement start becoming more important than the original aim. 
People who appoint themselves as leaders are usually the people least suited for it, because it's all about the egos...The only way to prevent the community destroying itself in the absence of a truly neutral, safe uninvolved party like a games company (a paid GM is pretty unlikely to go about using their powers and trust in them to harass people for personal grudges because they have more to lose and the paid nature of it means there's more other people to hold oversight to stop scandals/bad things happening, as well as lawsuits for damages due to gross misconduct etc) is to make sure that the information and tools are spread widely so that no one group can hold control over others...
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It's one way I could at least "preserve" my characters in action and then use Blender to do some nice rendering and depth of field.
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Originally Posted by DeProgrammer
This doesn't need to happen. All the model data is in the PIGGs and the formats are known.
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Why not just use /demorecord? The lack of a server won't break demo playback as long as you keep the client files. <.<
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I've tried to record and run some demos but the current client doesn't seem to like that.
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Originally Posted by DeProgrammer
Why not just use /demorecord? The lack of a server won't break demo playback as long as you keep the client files. <.<
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You might possibly have a point. But that's Step 3, and we haven't finished Step 1 yet. First we have to see if NCSoft is even willing to deal. Then we have to see if we can raise funds via crowdsourcing. If those fail, then we would need venture capital.|
Originally Posted by Brillig
Sorry, but I don't see a VC touching this. They're not interested in the slow but steady return, they're looking for the home run.
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It's also possible a venture capitalist would not fund a purchase of existing CoH, but would fund the development of a replacement game. That happens all the time - with car leases for example. The dealer very often refuses to finance a lease buyout, but they will finance a new car easily.
The most important thing to remember right now is people (the players). People make a market, and they're all *right here*. No matter which approach we take - if we can - we've already accomplished the hardest part. Trust me, I've tried marketing software nobody has heard of.
A *market* is most of what a venture capitalist is worried about, because they know that's the hardest part. Since we have one right here, waiting and worrying...it doesn't make funding a sure thing, but it increases our chances astronomically.
Anyway, back to Step 1.
Manga @ Triumph
"Meanwhile In The Halls Of Titan"...Titan Network Working To Save City Of Heroes
Save Paragon City! Efforts Coordination
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For the record, this is what I plan on primarily doing with my time between now and November. Every chance I get, I will be demo recording fly throughs and such, making sure to get a copy of each area I can. I had originally planned on doing this for nostalgia purposes, so on a bad day, when I am really missing Paragon city, I can just pop in a demo file and relive the glorious moments of flying through the cities which is what always brought me joy in the first place. But if anything what-so-ever can be used from my recordings to keep the game, or to rebuild, then for god's sake you may have every thing I've got. I love you all, and I love this game. |
Originally Posted by Banelord
I hope someone is archiving ALL the current zones with fly-throughs and instance runs, to document what is where, mob spawns, music queues and such. Something tells me you are going to need them.
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Also, if the time comes and the game ends and there is no alternative, if anyone wants me to send them some of my demo records just so that they can taste Paragon once more, drop me a line and I would be happy to send you whatever you want. I am here for EACH ONE OF YOU! My email (specifically for CoH matters) is PrinceRecluse@gmail.com - Feel free to hit me up.
Another side note: Being that this is TonyV's post, and I now know WHO he is, I just want to take this time to humbly thank you from the bottom of my heart for ParagonWiki.com. I never really utilized Titan Network, but ParagonWiki has been my bible for a long time and always wanted to thank whoever was in charge. It was one of the only things that was able to help me fully understand how the Incarnate system worked, and it was always my refresher for badge locations, demo record controls, etc., and everything in between. Thank you Tony and anyone else involved in ParagonWiki. I have been playing since August of 2004 (Happy terribly sad Anniversary to me...), but yet you always seemed to teach me a faucet of the game I didn't quite know. And I always used my knowledge to help new players, and I always suggested that they check out ParagonWiki.com . May the God of your choice bless you for all of eternity. You all deserve it.
You can reach me at: PrinceRecluse@gmail.com
If you want copies or a link to my Demo Record files, send me an email.
My Global is @Blue Alpha and main server is Freedom.
Keep in touch and God Bless Paragon!
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F-ing S! I could not agree more. Well put.|
Originally Posted by Banelord
I have returned to CoH over the years and resubbed because it was always worth it, just to fly again, see the zones and listen to the very evocative music queues. The original login screen theme, Atlas Park, Steel Canyon, etc.
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Also, as I mentioned on Freedom the night of the news, when the devs were having fun:
I knew that the moment they removed Statesman's existence from the game entirely (load screen included), they had removed the Heart of the game, and it was only a matter of time before the body died with it.
(Shortly after my comment, Statesman appeared in Atlas.)
I'm not saying the removal of Statesman is why CoH is shutting down, but symbolically, it makes sense.
You can reach me at: PrinceRecluse@gmail.com
If you want copies or a link to my Demo Record files, send me an email.
My Global is @Blue Alpha and main server is Freedom.
Keep in touch and God Bless Paragon!
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Whereas I saw it as a sign of new life for the game, a new era full of great new possibilities for CoH that elevated the player to the level of the real heroes.
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Originally Posted by Prince_Recluse
F-ing S! I could not agree more. Well put.
Also, as I mentioned on Freedom the night of the news, when the devs were having fun: I knew that the moment they removed Statesman's existence from the game entirely (load screen included), they had removed the Heart of the game, and it was only a matter of time before the body died with it. (Shortly after my comment, Statesman appeared in Atlas.) I'm not saying the removal of Statesman is why CoH is shutting down, but symbolically, it makes sense. |
I did so, and works fine now.