If you haven't looked at the new Skulls, please do.

Undeniably sinister, though.

Absolutely.

I'm pointing out that the foundational genre of the game is noted for new creative teams ignoring/revising 'lore' to suit themselves, and thus the endless kvetching by players who think the Story Bible of the game should be carved in stone and never deviated from is pointless and silly.

Which is a contribution to the discussion, notwithstanding your inability to recognize it.

... ... that'd be awesome. I'm 100% behind this change.

Yeah, because THAT'S a really compelling argument...

Oh, wait.

Edit: Do I need to point out, yet again, that this game is NOT a comic book? Despite some peoples apparent belief that it is, and that 'it happens in comics/the industry' is somehow a valid argument?

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

It isn't an argument, it's an observation.

The notion that new creative teams are to be SLAVISHLY DEVOTED to preexisting lore simply doesn't exist in the universe of comics, whatever medium they are presented in.

Having a red-faced fit over insignificant alterations to a minor gang that most players don't even notice unless they want a badge and do some street sweeping in Perez is ridiculous.

I love how IT'S A COMIC BOOK GAME BASED ON COMIC BOOKS is such a widespread battle cry given how instantly ready most folk are to ignore that fact when it suits their purpose.

Hehe, it's a fair comment.
As is, and no fan base ever gets disgruntled over it each and every time it happens, do they.

The Electric-Knight ______ Malfaz _____ Zox'Oculox

@Zethustra

"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

www.pauldamonthomas.com - Original Music

Indeed!

I'm not opposed to expressing disappointment, but I am opposed to insisting that previous lore was stone-graven and sacrosanct, as if "that's the way it's always been!" is any sort of legitimate argument.


With regards to online computer games in particular, there's a little sticker on the box of each and every one of them reading Game Experience May Change During Online Play.


So you can't say they didn't warn you. =P

If they want to write a compelling story that respects it's past and can be taken seriously, they wouldn't.

But you're right, this is CoH. We got two years of Praetoria and it's still going strong, I don't expect much anymore.

Hard to argue with goat wisdom, heh.

I'd be happy if they'd just be consistent and assign someone to sort through all of this and keep it straight instead of being (apparently) ad hoc about it all. Matt made a comment on the beta forums about where the name Marrowsnap came from and it was interesting from a history of the game development standpoint but it ended up pointing out that he didn't know what the lore on the company website said about the guys that we're all discussing.

Then again, that page was produced during the Arctic Sun days and they almost seem to have it in for anything he wrote. Maybe that's just my annoyance at the vaporization of the Paragon Times talking.

At any rate - it's certainly a "small" thing given that it's a level range that people breeze through at the drop of a hat, but a lot of the negative reaction is push back from the way the lore keeps getting systematically stomped on and from the way that various people in power appear to be unfamiliar with their own product.

I think they can write the story they want to tell without making such fundamental changes to the makeup of the Skulls. As I proposed earlier, I don't think that the Skulls would logically be a homogenous ethnic gang today even if they WERE one before the Rikti War because their ethnic community almost certainly doesn't exist any more; at least not in the form that it took before the War.

Or play it down. Their write-up on the CoH site makes it seem like they're a misguided street gang. Not really evil, just young and disaffected. And their leader, Frostfire, tried to start as a hero, and ended up a hero despite being a villain.

I think the Outcasts could use some more stories of redemption. It would be a nice counterpoint to the thoroughly evil Skulls and Hellions.

This is very much how I see it. This goes along with my request to the devs: please don't spend too much time "fix" the new Skulls. Lots of other more worthy things to work on besides a group whose primary reason to exist is to be *skipped* by most of the players running DFB to level up.

Oh I like it. There could be a story arc that occurs as they fade out level wise that shows how many follow in the foot steps of their leader, and then, a higher level arc where they are a new formed super group, The Redeemed.

None of that gets in the way of playing up their "elemental" theme

wat

Actually, one of them shows up in the Bonefire arc.

/* Start digression

Not that anyone cares, but the tiki is Polynesian, while voodoo is a generic Hollywood name for the various and diverse Afro-Caribbean syncretic faiths like Vodou, Candomblé, and Santeria. Confusing the Banished Pantheon further, the BP deco cave map uses African-esque tribal shield masks. It's a good thing the Pantheon is clearly defined as an ancient cult predating all of these religions, or someone would have some explaining to do.

*/ End digression

We now return to your regularly scheduled wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Elemental? I was thinking have The Outcasts jump headlong into costumed super powered supervillainy.

Which, I realize I've lobbied for before.

Outcast are messy, but they have a very defined look and theme, once they all start exhibiting their mutantness. Blue skinned Freezers and Shockers, Orange skinned Scorchers and Gray for the Bricks. And to top it off, they wear color coded t-shirts and symbols indicating which power they are.

So, my proposal, as noted above is something I've talked about before, is to just push them over the spandex edge and start gearing them up to be costumed super powered with a focus on super powers.

Leave the under 20s exactly where they're at looks-wise. But then, as a bonus, as they turn up post-20, they'd start branching into spandex.

Maybe start with 20-28 or so as just spandex tops for the male and now, female members of the gang. Roll in Earth/fire/ice/psi control, while also keeping the tank whatever hybrids that we see with the under 20s, on the boss types and of course, possibly make their power choices a bit more robust to make them a match for players. And to pair up with Frostfire's gimmick, make a good portion of them use two different types of powers (Hopefully, they'll get labeled like the Tsoo bosses, so that they'll be of a type.) Then, add in the occasional SupaTroll in some sort of sleeveless spandex. Primarily, because it'd be a shame to let the big guys go to waste as just a one-off Troll Rave thing. (Also, because huge monster enemies are fun, and it'd break up the multi-hued to mob spawns.) Maybe boss types here, start wearing masks.

Then, post 28, full spandex for the whole gang masks, head details, the whole shebang. Reserve capes for the boss types, Lts. can hold on to their hats or maybe add in vests or shoulder things. Maybe at this point, throw in some Radiation and Plant control/thorns/nature affinity and Gravity to round out the remaining variety. At this point, you push the SupaTrolls to just Lieutenant types, as well as a couple dual types for flavor. Heck, if you wanted to get really ambitious, you could give the Boss-types theme specific looks depending on their powersets, like the Tsoo bosses.

Bearing in mind, that this is in addition to every other type, as opposed to replacing a set of guys. Keep the variety across all levels. Otherwise, we'll end up with another Circle of Thorns situation where you only see one or two types of magic depending on level bands. Maybe even make a SupaDupaTroll Giant Monster(I figure if he or she's Kronos sized) event for Founders Falls or Skyway, could even add in a Godzilla reference here(because he's big and green and why not, breathes radioactive fire.)

I like the redemption angle that somebody mentioned above, but the only way for that to work, for me, is if there's still a number of them on the other side of the law. You could even have the occasional helper Outcast NPC thrown into random Outcast missions, to show that there's still Outcasts that are fighting to change from criminals to heroes.

Roll them into Peregrine Isles, have them going head to head with the Malta, what with Malta being the guys that want to take down super powered people, a villain group that was all superpowers would seem a natural fit to go head to head against all the time. This isn't about mutant oppression, that's for the other guys, this is mostly about turf. And of course, Outcast on Outcast fights, because they don't keep their in-fighting just amongst themselves or even indoors.

Even if they only showed up in Radios and maybe tips, it'd be adding something just a little bit more comic book to the game.

That's pretty much where I am. They look enough like the old Skulls to be recognisable as such, but they're new enough to be worth the remake. That's pretty much all we can ask from a graphical update.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

So do I, because I've never been one of them.

It's a Comic Book INSPIRED Computer Game that is primarily actually about Super Heroes and Villains and not solely limited by Comics alone.

I don't give a flying pony whether it's games, comics, books or parchment-bound stories scrawled in blood; Inconsistency is inconsistency, and ignoring pre-existing canon is doing just that. We might as well ignore ALL canon, EVER, if that's going to be the case.
Someone has to care about this crap. And I'm a writer. *I* care. Deal with it.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Then don't take part?

The Skulls already are interesting. They have a bunch of background stuff that is NEVER explored in game, like the whole fething POINT about their naming system, their connection to death, yada yada. That doesn't matter for squat if they're just going to throw loads of it out, rather than expand on WHAT IS ALREADY THERE.

THAT is what is annoying people like me, who actually give two damns about writing quality and consistency...

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

...

Your reasoning is bad, and you should feel bad.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.