If you haven't looked at the new Skulls, please do.


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Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel View Post
GG... You do understand Trolls are too stupid to understand what Norse Myth is, right?
They're clever enough to use suitable names from it


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Originally Posted by SlickRiptide View Post
The game lore SAYS that they are recruiting from anywhere. What are they doing with the recruits from Atlas Park if the gang is primarily ethnic? Turning them into Soylent Green?
There are no Slavs living in Atlas Park?


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickRiptide View Post
The game lore SAYS that they are recruiting from anywhere. What are they doing with the recruits from Atlas Park if the gang is primarily ethnic? Turning them into Soylent Green?
I guess they could be "converting" them into masks.
(I do agree with you though)


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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight View Post
I guess they could be "converting" them into masks.
(I do agree with you though)
Puts a new spin on the whole "opening new chapters" bit. :-p


 

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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence View Post
QR: Lord, save us all from a surfeit of political correctness!

Fact is, people tend to hang around with... other people like themselves. Its everywhere, you will see it at work, at the mall, standing in line at the grocery-store: like tends to congregate with like. Of course some cross-pollination goes on, but in general this is what you will see.

Please note that I did not say the following: that people SHOULD hang around with their own kind to the exclusion of all others. They should not be FORCED to keep company with only their own.

But its what you see IRL. There are exceptions, but its what you see, pretty much.

I would find it much more jarring to see every group of NPCs consist strictly of one white guy, one black guy and one Asian guy. Man, what next: are we going to hear complaining about how the Tsoo are not 1/3 black or white or something? Be serious, of course an Asian group is going to have *Asians* in it. Does this mean the Tsoo are eeee-vil racists?
Because the Hmong Tsoo have ALWAYS been a very specific, thematic group. The Skulls have NEVER been that way. The Tsoo are also based on existing, triad-like archetypes that exist in most media types. An archetype that already assumes that not ALL type of said people are evil.

The Skull are being kludged into this, and have been kludged BADLY. The Tsoo speak nearly perfect English, although you can easily imagine them having an accent. The Skulls on Beta are like some terrible, badly written parody that are insulting, not because of 'political correctness', which is mostly stupid, but because it's just BAD. Badly written is badly written and badly handled, end of.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

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Moreover, it basically retcons all the in-game information about them to date:

http://na.cityofheroes.com/en/game_i...ret_skulls.php

Note that the backstory explicitly gives the supervillain names of the Petrovic brothers (Rado "Marrow Snap" Petrovic and Emil "Marrow Drinker" Petrovic), and also explicitly says that the current Skulls also contains former members of local rival gang the Shadows (which the Skulls mostly destroyed), meaning there are locals in it, not just Eastern/Central/whatever Europeans.

Since none of that will apply anymore in I24, the Skulls will essentially become an entirely new group that happens to share the name of and some design similarity to the previous Skulls.


 

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Originally Posted by Thunder Knight View Post
Moreover, it basically retcons all the in-game information about them to date:

http://na.cityofheroes.com/en/game_i...ret_skulls.php

Granted, they could use a little updating visually, but in I24, the Skulls will essentially become an entirely new group that happens to share the name of and some design similarity to the previous Skulls.
YES! There it is, I knew I'd read that page before. Thank you.

So, yeah, TOTAL bloody retcon of what was already perfectly workable law that isn't the same as Praetoria because it was never, ever expanded upon.

They could work all that into the game lore already, and that would be much better than this bloody stupid, brain-dead and badly handled retcon. I call foul!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

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Originally Posted by _eeek_ View Post
Just as a minor point, Slovakia is not in Eastern Europe, it's in Central Europe. Austria is it's western border, as a point of reference.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Europe


 

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Originally Posted by Thunder Knight View Post
Since none of that will apply anymore in I24, the Skulls will essentially become an entirely new group that happens to share the name of and some design similarity to the previous Skulls.
Which pains me as a veteran player-- I personally loved the Hellions and the Skulls, including the symmetrical duality in their looks and beliefs.

The reasons I dislike this change go far beyond the awful accents, stupid hair and way-too-fancy-for-Kings-Row clothing; it wipes away the old group entirely and, if there WERE a lore-centric cottage rule, this redesign would break it.


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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
GR made a few tweaks to the original Praetorian lore - most people seemed ok with that
Old Praetoria = Crappy, goatee-mirrorverse with bad lore that was there to fill level 45-50 missions

Old Skulls = perfectly workable lore that never got expanded and developed because apparently low levels were 'a waste of time' or something that didn't need expanding on. No there is time to expand...and pre-existing workable a lore is scrapped.



Difference: There is one


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
Which pains me as a veteran player-- I personally loved the Hellions and the Skulls, including the symmetrical duality in their looks and beliefs.

The reasons I dislike this change go far beyond the awful accents, stupid hair and way-too-fancy-for-Kings-Row clothing; it wipes away the old group entirely and, if there WERE a lore-centric cottage rule, this redesign would break it.
Exactly. I like and care about the CoH lore and canon, which is why this is sticking in my craw so bad.

The Hellions and Skull needed expanding, to feel like proper bad guys and not just place holders until we'd levelled up some. They did NOT need a complete lore whip out, which is what is happening.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

I've always considered the Skulls and Hellions to be the "rats" found in the fantasy MMO genre. As in "kill 10 rats", or more specifically "kill 10 brown rats/kill 10 black rats". They were just filler street trash that low level heroes with no travel powers could interact with as they jogged between missions (Rule #1 - Cardio).

At some point Hellions got "Girlfriends from Hell" which spiced up the group a bit from just setting you on fire all the time. So Skulls now get a retcon into a Eastern Eurogang death cult. They were due to be made more "interesting".

And they really need to add a Boris and Natasha to the named bosses.


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Exactly what is the huge retcon? They go from a death cult that dresses in black and white, to a more interesting death cult that dresses in black and white and has some Slavic leaders.


 

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Originally Posted by Mad Grim View Post
Exactly what is the huge retcon? They go from a death cult that dresses in black and white, to a more interesting death cult that dresses in black and white and has some Slavic leaders.
The group is going from a street gang with a very distinct and uniform image made up of all up-and-comers of the streets with two de-facto leaders who forged the group into a cult of death, to a gang made entirely of Russian/Eastern European nightclub bangers in designer clothing while worshipping death in a trendy way with a single leader who looks like Saxton Hale went goth.

EDIT: I forgot to add that every member of the new Skulls gang is white. Every last one of them. The old group had noticeable diversity.

It's a very big change.

It would be like changing the Hellions from what they are now into a Norwegian black metal Satan cult led by some dude who looks like someone lit Gary Busey on fire.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
It would be like changing the Hellions from what they are now into a Norwegian black metal Satan cult led by some dude who looks like someone lit Gary Busey on fire.
Now, that's sig-worthy!


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
The group is going from a street gang with a very distinct and uniform image made up of all up-and-comers of the streets with two de-facto leaders who forged the group into a cult of death, to a gang made entirely of Russian/Eastern European nightclub bangers in designer clothing while worshipping death in a trendy way with a single leader who looks like Saxton Hale went goth.
I see it more as going from a generic low res launch villain group to a more visually vibrant crew much more suited to the modern game.

YMMV.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

The big problem here is that this is a step backwards, not a step forwards.

Let's imagine that the original Skulls were all from a neighborhood that was primarily Central/Eastern European refugees. (Interesting to try to imagine what housing situation led to these people all settling near Perez Park and turning the area into a gangland warzone.) The Shadows were the local ethnic gang running roughshod over the neighborhood, so having the survivors join the Skulls wouldn't make it any less of an ethnic gang.

Then the Rikti War happens. The neighborhood is laid to waste. That's part of the reason that the War Wall is placed where it is placed. That was the battle lines where the No Man's Land existed between the Rikti and the Terrans. (Granted, that's generic lore, not specific to any particular zone or wall.)

What isn't leveled by the War is abandoned to the gangs and the aliens. The suvivors are scattered in a diaspora that dissolves whatever remained of the original ethnic neighborhood. Unless the Petrovics had some really deep hidey-holes, they lost most of their members to the Rikti. If they're going to rebuild then they have to look to more than just their ethnic brethren. They have to embrace all of the disaffected and displaced and there are thousands to embrace, who are just as lost and forgotten as the original refugees were. These are people that the Skulls know how to attract and manipulate because they've already been there.

Hell, the trick they're pulling in Atlas Park is not a new one for them. It's the same one they pulled in King's Row when the City lay in ruins and people were scrabbling for any kind of a life to reclaim from the wreckage. It's how they got a foothold in The Row and laid claim to it.

That's what they should be, not a throwback to a past from ten years ago, historically speaking, that is long gone due to time and the War.

One of the irksome annoyances to me about the War is the way that it gets glossed over so frequently and this is just another example. We should not be getting "new" Skulls who are based on what they might have been before the War. We should be getting "new" Skulls that expand on what they have become since the War.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickRiptide View Post
The big problem here is that this is a step backwards, not a step forwards.

Let's imagine that the original Skulls were all from a neighborhood that was primarily Central/Eastern European refugees. (Interesting to try to imagine what housing situation led to these people all settling near Perez Park and turning the area into a gangland warzone.) The Shadows were the local ethnic gang running roughshod over the neighborhood, so having the survivors join the Skulls wouldn't make it any less of an ethnic gang.

Then the Rikti War happens. The neighborhood is laid to waste. That's part of the reason that the War Wall is placed where it is placed. That was the battle lines where the No Man's Land existed between the Rikti and the Terrans. (Granted, that's generic lore, not specific to any particular zone or wall.)

What isn't leveled by the War is abandoned to the gangs and the aliens. The suvivors are scattered in a diaspora that dissolves whatever remained of the original ethnic neighborhood. Unless the Petrovics had some really deep hidey-holes, they lost most of their members to the Rikti. If they're going to rebuild then they have to look to more than just their ethnic brethren. They have to embrace all of the disaffected and displaced and there are thousands to embrace, who are just as lost and forgotten as the original refugees were. These are people that the Skulls know how to attract and manipulate because they've already been there.

Hell, the trick they're pulling in Atlas Park is not a new one for them. It's the same one they pulled in King's Row when the City lay in ruins and people were scrabbling for any kind of a life to reclaim from the wreckage. It's how they got a foothold in The Row and laid claim to it.

That's what they should be, not a throwback to a past from ten years ago, historically speaking, that is long gone due to time and the War.

One of the irksome annoyances to me about the War is the way that it gets glossed over so frequently and this is just another example. We should not be getting "new" Skulls who are based on what they might have been before the War. We should be getting "new" Skulls that expand on what they have become since the War.
Think I gotta agree with this. But that's pretty much the standard for our current writers; Tossing old lore in favor of their own version of it.


 

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Originally Posted by Xzero45 View Post
Think I gotta agree with this. But that's pretty much the standard for our current writers; Tossing old lore in favor of their own version of it.
and no comic book universe would EVER do that now, would they.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

The whole "ll of them are Slavic" thing is a mess and innacurate. I'm not gonna argue for the stupid accents to remain in everyone, especially when it is clearly stated in the new mission line that they are simply recruiting anyone who they can get addicted, or anyone who has no where else to go and is on their last legs. Mostly refugees. Nowhere do they say they limit themselves to those of Slavic origin.

As for the look of the leaders... that isn't a retcon. IIRC te leaders had never made an actual appearance before, so it isn't a change. They are just adding their looks in.

So aside from the stupid accents that are stupid, I'm still not seeing the huge change.


 

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Originally Posted by Mad Grim View Post
So aside from the stupid accents that are stupid, I'm still not seeing the huge change.
The models have changed to eliminate any african-american or any other non-slavic-appearing people from the ranks.

On the flip-side, there are women in the gang now. Maybe the two changes balance out...


 

Posted

So much unnecessary tsuris and/or agita over a relatively minor gang.

The loss of diversity in the gang is annoying, though.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickRiptide View Post
The models have changed to eliminate any african-american or any other non-slavic-appearing people from the ranks. Nobody but swart, sinister men in the new Skulls.

On the flip-side, there are women in the gang now. Maybe the two changes balance out...
They're not "swart," they're white.


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